lepskilledtrades Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 I thought that wakeup just said they ( I-Union) stopped that down there? No the International wasn't envolved. Our last local contract was full of IMT language (90% of it ) and the membership (trades and production) voted it down. Now we are waiting on a new proposal from our local but we heard it had IMT language still in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 My understanding is that the issue was resolved or in the process of it...obviously this is not true as LEP mentioned. Maybe the union is worried you wont have a plant if the HPU is not low enough? It's pretty hard to get the HPU where the company wants it when you just launched a new engine 6 months ago. We are still working the bugs out of it. Evidently some people don't realize that. The only thing we keep hearing is BOB KING is all for IMT!!! even though the membership isn't!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeup Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 It's pretty hard to get the HPU where the company wants it when you just launched a new engine 6 months ago. We are still working the bugs out of it. Evidently some people don't realize that. The only thing we keep hearing is BOB KING is all for IMT!!! even though the membership isn't!! LEP I asked Jeff our President about this issue today. He stated that Bob King is NOT hot for IMT language...that Bob himself is a skilledtrades person. He did say that Bob wants to make sure Lima has a future as he does all the existing plants. ALso, HPU is an issue in powertrain bigtime. The way you folks run your IMT's presently is not the only version of IMT. The 5 minute rule is a skilled tradesmen can run the line for 5 minutes to diagnose a problem or to test part after a breakdown or startup machines and make sure the part is to spec before turning it over to production. Anyway, there are many forms ofIMT's. My suggestion is to be patient let your committee negotiate. I understand you guys won work using the cost saving for the IMT's? is that true? also said that Lima is a trciky situation but believes that in the end your trust in Bob and your local committee will pay off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 LEP I asked Jeff our President about this issue today. He stated that Bob King is NOT hot for IMT language...that Bob himself is a skilledtrades person. He did say that Bob wants to make sure Lima has a future as he does all the existing plants. ALso, HPU is an issue in powertrain bigtime. The way you folks run your IMT's presently is not the only version of IMT. The 5 minute rule is a skilled tradesmen can run the line for 5 minutes to diagnose a problem or to test part after a breakdown or startup machines and make sure the part is to spec before turning it over to production. Anyway, there are many forms ofIMT's. My suggestion is to be patient let your committee negotiate. I understand you guys won work using the cost saving for the IMT's? is that true? also said that Lima is a trciky situation but believes that in the end your trust in Bob and your local committee will pay off. We haven't saved any money with the IMT program we are presently running because we still have the area tradesman covering in the departments plus the IMT's trades running the machines full time. In our IMT program that we voted down the IMT tradesman ARE part of the production people . We have NO 5 minute rule or anything like that presently. That rule wouldn't be so bad. We need to have ONE form of IMT language ( if we have to have it ) for the engine plants and everyone follows those rules. Our commitee tells us that BOB KING is all for the IMT program that we have so how can we trust them. They tell us one thing and everyone else tells us that is not true!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 We haven't saved any money with the IMT program we are presently running because we still have the area tradesman covering in the departments plus the IMT's trades running the machines full time. In our IMT program that we voted down the IMT tradesman ARE part of the production people . We have NO 5 minute rule or anything like that presently. That rule wouldn't be so bad. We need to have ONE form of IMT language ( if we have to have it ) for the engine plants and everyone follows those rules. Our commitee tells us that BOB KING is all for the IMT program that we have so how can we trust them. They tell us one thing and everyone else tells us that is not true!! I do not agree with the way I have heard that they were doing IMT's in LEP, but if I had the opportunity to save my plant by doing something similar...I would probably do what I had too within reason. Still do not like what I have heard. We do need to be consistant throghout PTO. Lets keep the faith and stick together...give LEP support!!! Ford does have a lot of open capacity at engine plants though. We must be careful!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 I do not agree with the way I have heard that they were doing IMT's in LEP, but if I had the opportunity to save my plant by doing something similar...I would probably do what I had too within reason. Still do not like what I have heard. We do need to be consistant throghout PTO. Lets keep the faith and stick together...give LEP support!!! Ford does have a lot of open capacity at engine plants though. We must be careful!! We agree everyone in powertrain MUST stick together. The way our IMT program was designed in our first local contract would have been a disaster to skilled trades as we know it. Lets all hope the next one we see will be alot better. It's not that we are so opposed to change. We all change. Our union seem to want to model us after the germans cause that is where they do the IMT program. What they haven't told us is that most of their trade work is contracted out and the skill level of their trades isn't as high as ours plus many other differences. If they really are dead set on wanting to copy a system. How about coping from someone who is actually a threat to our market share. But then again Toyoita and Honda don't do IMT's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Sorry but you are right and wrong. IMT's were snuffed out at national level but the locals are still pushing for it. Here at LEP we are still doing the IMT program even though we voted our local contract down that was full of IMT language. We were told , by our plant manager, that Romeo, Dearborn and Cleveland were getting ready to do their IMT programs. We were also told that if we didn't do it that they were going to close our plant!! Yea Right!!!! From what we understand the IMT program will cover all of powertrain. We have heard rumors that our new local contract still has a lot of IMT language in it also but we haven't been presented with it yet. We need to hear from The other engine plants on if their local is pushing this IMT crap. We were topld that Bob King wants this IMT for powertrain. So our answer to that is we don't!! So maybe he needs to come down here to Lima so we can remind him who he works for!!! Because we certainly will let our local know at election time. Well all I can say is I'm a machine operator on the cam line in Cleveland Plant 2 and as far as I know there is no IMT program about to be implemented in here. As for Plant 1 I have no idea but the local gave up quite a bit in the local contract so could be who knows? Around here it always happens the same way...the shit hits the fan and the union say's "You voted for it " as if any of us actually were able to find any of the details before we voted. We were told however today that Plant 2's afternoon shift was being eliminated earlier then expected but again so far we have no details only that it will be sometime before April or May maybe sooner. Who the hell knows whats going on. Did you guys at Lima ever pass your local we heard here at Cleveland that you turned it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeup Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) We haven't saved any money with the IMT program we are presently running because we still have the area tradesman covering in the departments plus the IMT's trades running the machines full time. In our IMT program that we voted down the IMT tradesman ARE part of the production people . We have NO 5 minute rule or anything like that presently. That rule wouldn't be so bad. We need to have ONE form of IMT language ( if we have to have it ) for the engine plants and everyone follows those rules. Our commitee tells us that BOB KING is all for the IMT program that we have so how can we trust them. They tell us one thing and everyone else tells us that is not true!! OK, OK fair points...sounds like this one is very political. Lets think about it slowly. Why would your committee want an IMT? one that just rips the people apart and makes life very difficult for all elected and appointed officals? My guess is they hate it way more than any of us on the floor. Mr. King is no diffrent I am sure. He doesnt want anything hurting our membership. Manufacturing is leaving this country or already left...look at all the plants that just got wiped out recently in Michigan and Ohio...now think about how many we lost from 1971 to now...no plant is ever save...not today. Maybe never again. 400,000 uaw/ford hourly employees in 1971 to 40,000 today. yikes. Maybe, as difficult as it is, all of us in powertrain need to understand that a diffrent world is surrounding us now. Manufacturing (PTO) needs to make the most changes, because that's where most of the opportunity is. We need to stick together in powertrain. I agree with you 100%. Just slapping a tradesmen on the line is not going to work. However, we dont need to all stick together if we are all going to jump off a cliff and be too hard headed. I think that is where we are right now. We need to proceed with caution. We also can NOT fuck around too long either, we do NOT have the time...we need somthing to work now. We need a way to maximize our time in the plant to be efficient or in other words maximize man hours, in the trades and offline areas especially. Machine efficenies can be made all over our plants by our tradesmen and women if given the opportunity and direction with the tools. You have to agree trades and offline jobs are where we have the most opportunity to make gains. (low hanging fruit) Maybe we start a thread on ideas on how to be more effecient in trades, production,engineering and the ever elusive management team and get ideas from all the experts on this site. :shades: Lets face it...hard times are coming for our generation...I guess this is what the "oldtimers" call paying their dues. Edited January 16, 2008 by wakeup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Well all I can say is I'm a machine operator on the cam line in Cleveland Plant 2 and as far as I know there is no IMT program about to be implemented in here. As for Plant 1 I have no idea but the local gave up quite a bit in the local contract so could be who knows? Around here it always happens the same way...the shit hits the fan and the union say's "You voted for it " as if any of us actually were able to find any of the details before we voted. We were told however today that Plant 2's afternoon shift was being eliminated earlier then expected but again so far we have no details only that it will be sometime before April or May maybe sooner. Who the hell knows whats going on. Did you guys at Lima ever pass your local we heard here at Cleveland that you turned it down. No not yet we turned the first attemp down because of the way they designed that IMT program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 OK, OK fair points...sounds like this one is very political. Lets think about it slowly. Why would your committee want an IMT? one that just rips the people apart and makes life very difficult for all elected and appointed officals? My guess is they hate it way more than any of us on the floor. Mr. King is no diffrent I am sure. He doesnt want anything hurting our membership. Manufacturing is leaving this country or already left...look at all the plants that just got wiped out recently in Michigan and Ohio...now think about how many we lost from 1971 to now...no plant is ever save...not today. Maybe never again. 400,000 uaw/ford hourly employees in 1971 to 40,000 today. yikes. Maybe, as difficult as it is, all of us in powertrain need to understand that a diffrent world is surrounding us now. Manufacturing (PTO) needs to make the most changes, because that's where most of the opportunity is. We need to stick together in powertrain. I agree with you 100%. Just slapping a tradesmen on the line is not going to work. However, we dont need to all stick together if we are all going to jump off a cliff and be too hard headed. I think that is where we are right now. We need to proceed with caution. We also can NOT fuck around too long either, we do NOT have the time...we need somthing to work now. We need a way to maximize our time in the plant to be efficient or in other words maximize man hours, in the trades and offline areas especially. Machine efficenies can be made all over our plants by our tradesmen and women if given the opportunity and direction with the tools. You have to agree trades and offline jobs are where we have the most opportunity to make gains. (low hanging fruit) Maybe we start a thread on ideas on how to be more effecient in trades, production,engineering and the ever elusive management team and get ideas from all the experts on this site. :shades: Lets face it...hard times are coming for our generation...I guess this is what the "oldtimers" call paying their dues. slapping a number of tradesman on the line is exactly whats being done here. We went from having plant wide seniority to departmental seniority. So if a tradesman or woman is put into IMT program and all of a sudden they need more trades they can hire off the street and put them in a certain department and they can't touch them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyGirl Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I am in skilled trades at Dearborn Engine. DO NOT VOTE FOR THE COA!!! We voted yes. They are basically breaking up the building into 5 individual departments...equalizing OT and shift bumps withinin the department. This means if you work in a plant that one department gets the majority of OT and you are not high seniority (jobs go by seniority)...you will be making substantially less money than other people in your plant. I agree that the company needs to do something to turn a profit but having all disgruntled skilled trade people (I do mean all!!) is not the way to do it. We came up with many ideas but none are ever implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyGirl Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I am in skilled trades at Dearborn Engine. DO NOT VOTE FOR THE COA!!! We voted yes. They are basically breaking up the building into 5 individual departments...equalizing OT and shift bumps withinin the department. This means if you work in a plant that one department gets the majority of OT and you are not high seniority (jobs go by seniority)...you will be making substantially less money than other people in your plant. I agree that the company needs to do something to turn a profit but having all disgruntled skilled trade people (I do mean all!!) is not the way to do it. We came up with many ideas but none are ever implemented. I should tell you that they are not calling it the IMT anymore the union is just calling it part of the COA that we did vote yes on. The local just tells us we should be grateful to them because the company wanted a lot more. Thanks alot!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I should tell you that they are not calling it the IMT anymore the union is just calling it part of the COA that we did vote yes on. The local just tells us we should be grateful to them because the company wanted a lot more. Thanks alot!!! Remember that at election time.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepskilledtrades Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 I am in skilled trades at Dearborn Engine. DO NOT VOTE FOR THE COA!!! We voted yes. They are basically breaking up the building into 5 individual departments...equalizing OT and shift bumps withinin the department. This means if you work in a plant that one department gets the majority of OT and you are not high seniority (jobs go by seniority)...you will be making substantially less money than other people in your plant. I agree that the company needs to do something to turn a profit but having all disgruntled skilled trade people (I do mean all!!) is not the way to do it. We came up with many ideas but none are ever implemented. So tell us at LEP how does your IMT program or whatever they call it, work and does that mean you already signed your local contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I am in skilled trades at Dearborn Engine. DO NOT VOTE FOR THE COA!!! We voted yes. They are basically breaking up the building into 5 individual departments...equalizing OT and shift bumps withinin the department. This means if you work in a plant that one department gets the majority of OT and you are not high seniority (jobs go by seniority)...you will be making substantially less money than other people in your plant. I agree that the company needs to do something to turn a profit but having all disgruntled skilled trade people (I do mean all!!) is not the way to do it. We came up with many ideas but none are ever implemented. Hey spankme girl....don't you over in Dearborn make the difference up on the weekend?? Don't you have bumping from area to area once per year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Remember that at election time.......... What does election time have to do with it asshole??? They are trying to save jobs...what part of volume reductions and too many engine plants don't your dumb ass get? you don't work at a engine plant so you don't know the first thing about it. Shut up and take your buy out you fk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 No not yet we turned the first attemp down because of the way they designed that IMT program. Flash news update Lep ole buddy. I was in a small team meeting today with our CEP2 Building Chairman and I asked him specifically straight up what was going on with the IMT program or what was about to go on with it. I also told him about what you said you were being told in Lima and the other powertrain plants as well. His exact words were " The IMT is dead" Not going to happen. It's dead" So take it for what its worth...as usual Ford is telling you in Lima if you don't eat their shit then Cleveland and all the other powertrain plants will and you'll close...at the same time they tell us if we don't take a bigger bite of the turd than Lima does we'll close. The way Ford is going, I expect them to hand me an engine block as I walk in the front gate, and then expect me to have it completely machined and assembled by the time I get to the other end of the plant all by myself telling me the entire way that Lima is HAPPY to do it that way. Fuck these lying assholes.....but then thats just this hourly hillbillies opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I am in skilled trades at Dearborn Engine. DO NOT VOTE FOR THE COA!!! We voted yes. They are basically breaking up the building into 5 individual departments...equalizing OT and shift bumps withinin the department. This means if you work in a plant that one department gets the majority of OT and you are not high seniority (jobs go by seniority)...you will be making substantially less money than other people in your plant. I agree that the company needs to do something to turn a profit but having all disgruntled skilled trade people (I do mean all!!) is not the way to do it. We came up with many ideas but none are ever implemented. For the record here...Ford wanted that at Cleveland and the local said no....so we don't have it here. But then again....we don't have any new work either...... Bottom line ...we could all work for free....HELL we could PAY Ford for the privilige of building their cars and it STILL wouldn't be enough for these assholes. :happy feet: They would still want MORE MORE MORE. Fuck 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeup Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 For the record here...Ford wanted that at Cleveland and the local said no....so we don't have it here. But then again....we don't have any new work either...... Bottom line ...we could all work for free....HELL we could PAY Ford for the privilige of building their cars and it STILL wouldn't be enough for these assholes. :happy feet: They would still want MORE MORE MORE. Fuck 'em. yea Ford likes to pit one plant against another....our Locals are on to them with this tho...the reason some of these local agreements are not complete is because locals are calibrating withone another so there is less whip sawing. You said a key thing....no COA no new work....LIMA has alot of work there...so you wonder what is the better route....I still think I would rather have a plant and a IMT than no plant and no IMT...I guess...how many engine plants are there?...theres a few I think.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Remember that at election time.......... Yes remember the leadership that twice saved the Dearborn engine plant which was on the closure list for the accelerated way forward plan which was stopped by the COA passing in September '06. And again saved and rewarded with a 80 million dollar investment stated in the new contract. You can not be that ignorant and keep your head in the sand and pretend everything is OK around us while the Asians are eating our lunch. Is area overtime is all you had to do to save the plant and get product? I think you ask anyone from any closed Ford or ACH plant if they would go to area overtime to save thier plant the answer would be 100% yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I am in skilled trades at Dearborn Engine. DO NOT VOTE FOR THE COA!!! We voted yes. They are basically breaking up the building into 5 individual departments...equalizing OT and shift bumps withinin the department. This means if you work in a plant that one department gets the majority of OT and you are not high seniority (jobs go by seniority)...you will be making substantially less money than other people in your plant. I agree that the company needs to do something to turn a profit but having all disgruntled skilled trade people (I do mean all!!) is not the way to do it. We came up with many ideas but none are ever implemented. Yes remember the leadership that twice saved the Dearborn engine plant which was on the closure list for the accelerated way forward plan which was stopped by the COA passing in September '06. And again saved and rewarded with a 80 million dollar investment stated in the new contract. You can not be that ignorant and keep your head in the sand and pretend everything is OK around us while the Asians are eating our lunch. Is area overtime is all you had to do to save the plant and get product? I think you ask anyone from any closed Ford or ACH plant if they would go to area overtime to save thier plant the answer would be 100% yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 What does election time have to do with it asshole??? They are trying to save jobs...what part of volume reductions and too many engine plants don't your dumb ass get? you don't work at a engine plant so you don't know the first thing about it. Shut up and take your buy out you fk! Look you litttle ass###, I was answering someone elses post. Reminding them that if they voted as a group for something, and dont like it, remember next time at the ballot box.Sounds like the democratic way but oh yeah you union hacks dont really believe in that philosophy. Even if you are at an engine plant like Romeo, you are not at DEP. Remember not to respond to my posts like you keep promising........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeup Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) For the record here...Ford wanted that at Cleveland and the local said no....so we don't have it here. But then again....we don't have any new work either...... Bottom line ...we could all work for free....HELL we could PAY Ford for the privilige of building their cars and it STILL wouldn't be enough for these assholes. :happy feet: They would still want MORE MORE MORE. Fuck 'em. The KEY: "we don't have any new work either" :slap: :slap: amazing that the places who accepted a COA have new work...I see your point sir....NOT Edited January 17, 2008 by wakeup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakeup Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Look you litttle ass###, I was answering someone elses post. Reminding them that if they voted as a group for something, and dont like it, remember next time at the ballot box.Sounds like the democratic way but oh yeah you union hacks dont really believe in that philosophy. Even if you are at an engine plant like Romeo, you are not at DEP. Remember not to respond to my posts like you keep promising........ No it's members like you who put in the next flavor every term and the company beats all of us on the floor up because the "new leadership" team that got elected dont know squat....you don't like a decision, so you vote out the team you elected?....sounds like rookie politics 101....whereswaldo.....I maybe a union hack...but I am trying.....your not even a hack...your just another ass(*&^ trying to disrupt everything, because your mad...hey I'm mad too....but I'm not out to cut my nose off to spite my face...or any of my friends on the floor either....thank the lord people ignore people like you on the floor...I feel sorry for the membership in which you are a part of.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhibkb Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 yea Ford likes to pit one plant against another They are trying to pit Tulsa and Nashville against each other in our negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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