zyphoid Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Know this is not exactly a repair forum, but maybe someone has had this problem with their Marquis and can give us a suggestion...? For months now, we have had a continual problem with our 96 Grand Marquis not wanting to start. Usually it will turn over, but just won't fire. (It makes the same noise as when you have a low battery, but maybe a little stronger). We have had it several times to two local mechanics who are excellent (can't afford a dealer mechanic), who have done the usual things plus more - plugs, battery, some other sensor type thing (can't remember what it's called), etc., and sometimes it will be okay for a while and then always will do it again. We're almost embarrassed to go back to the mechanic, who really is very good and has tried everything he can think of. This frequently happens in the morning and when it's cold out, but not always. (When this happens, it does not suddenly decide to start when it warms up outside. Sometimes a quick battery boost will force it to fire, but the battery and all related parts are new). This has been going on for months. We just drove it again for four days and then this morning it's sitting in our garage again, unable to start. We have gotten to the point where we rarely drive it anymore because we can't trust that it will start. We have used 3 of our 4 alloted AAA service calls because of this problem within 2 months of renewing our AAA membership! Is there something that we're missing???? We have had nothing but problems with this car and would like to get rid of it, despite loving the size and "safe feel". But we can't until we figure out what this problem is. This car also had the manifold problem but we missed the repair deadline by a few weeks - car was sold in March but our repair wasn't until April, so no reimbursement. I'm afraid that with this continual problem and the others, and with the manifold rip-off, we will not be buying another Ford. My All-American patriotic veteran spouse has decided to buy a...Honda! But in the meantime, ANY suggestions on what we can look at for this problem? Anyone else have this happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SysEng Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Know this is not exactly a repair forum, but maybe someone has had this problem with their Marquis and can give us a suggestion...? For months now, we have had a continual problem with our 96 Grand Marquis not wanting to start. Usually it will turn over, but just won't fire. (It makes the same noise as when you have a low battery, but maybe a little stronger). Idle Air Control valve . Have it checked/replaced. Its at the back of the throttle body near the firewall on '98s. Don't know about '96. Oh, and if it is your problem your mechanics aren't that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyphoid Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 Thanks for the suggestion. Actually, I believe this was replaced, but will certainly double-check. We've had the car repaired for various things so often over the last 7-8 months that I can't definitely recall if that was one of the repairs, but I think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyphoid Posted March 7, 2006 Author Share Posted March 7, 2006 The idle air control was replaced last May, shortly after the first few experiences of not firing - just had to double-check. This seemed to help for several months, and then it began again in the fall. That's when we replaced the battery and related, etc.. It wasn't driven for maybe 5-7 weeks because suddenly has a tie rod break and then a tail light switch go out which required removing the steering wheel. When those things were repaired, we drove for about 4 days, and now it isn't starting again. Thanks for the suggestion, though. Any other ideas appreciated...please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 This board is more of a how shall I say, place for people to whine about Ford. You would have better luck over at http://www.crownvic.net where they deal with technical problems... If you want to get your car fixed. Also why are you "embarrased" to take your car back to the mechanic? Is he doing if for free? I would think he would want to fix the problem and increase his knowledge about such things, for future use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stap1520 Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Yea it is a 10 year old car too, . SOunds like an odd problem that is on and off I had that once with a chevy and it was electrical related. Check solenoid wires to see if they are green or corroded make sure connections are good for the starter and solenoid. is the starter loose or missing teeth? I have seen that cause a car not to start at times , if the teeth line up it starts if they dont or 1 is missing it will start after you re align it. just odd suggestions I have seen before on other cars. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 When you say it sounds like the battery is dead, what exactly do you mean? From what I understand, I agree with stap, check the battery cables.. ESPECIALLY ground connections. They can be green on the inside yet look good on the out. Also check it for parasitic draw and alternator ripple. What is the battery voltage when the problem occurs? Around 8.5 volts will crank her all day, but is too little power to allow the pcm to be online. Does this 'good mechanic' own a VAT 40 or other VAT? Does he know how to properly run voltage drop tests? Sounds like you spent a heck of a lot of $$ on this thing. Dealer isn't lookin so expensive now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyphoid Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 It's the fuel pump. Thanks for your rude replies. The local mechanic and the mechanics at work (who work on trucks) found it. Both tested it. It is not a typical presentation of fuel pump problem, but can occasionally happen. Just not the first thing looked at with the starting issue. The pump was checked twice in May with two different mechanics and was fine then. When we called to compare repair costs, the dealer tried to tell us it was the starter and not the fuel pump - without even looking at it - even though we told him we had already replaced the starter and the fuel pump was confirmed. He also said "maybe we needed a newer car". Uhh, yeah - we really trust the dealer more now, don't we? We don't need another Ford, ever. We pick up our new Honda in a week - and will drive our 1990 Nissan, which NEVER breaks down - to pick it up. We won't need to be back here and whine with the rest of you. We'll happily have nothing left to whine about, since we won't have continual repairs and lies from Ford about manifolds and other issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I was going to say replace the fuel pump lol. Every Ford OEM fuel pump I have had fail has done so in the above described manner. They work some times others not. What happens is the comutator on the pump wears completley away. Then some times it will make contact with the brushes others not a, temp change will be enough to for to regain or lose contact. As well the extra kick of juice from a boost may be enough to get the pump turning if it is just barly making contact. Generally the OEM pumps are good for 125k- 175K depending if you do more city or hyway driving a good rule of thumb is to just replace them every 125K. The after market pump motors i have bought seem to be good for a about 200K . But when those quit they just quit no warning what so ever. Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyphoid Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 Matthew, thanks for your reply and information. It describes exactly what we've been dealing with - and why it's been so sporadic. Discovered if we get under there and "jiggle" it a bit, it will start right up (so at least we've been able to get it to the mechanics). We'd love to just replace this ourselves, as the lowest estimate was 450 (for the time involved), but don't feel as confident with this as we do with a simple fuel filter, for instance, and there's a lot of time involved, apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Matthew, thanks for your reply and information. It describes exactly what we've been dealing with - and why it's been so sporadic. Discovered if we get under there and "jiggle" it a bit, it will start right up (so at least we've been able to get it to the mechanics). We'd love to just replace this ourselves, as the lowest estimate was 450 (for the time involved), but don't feel as confident with this as we do with a simple fuel filter, for instance, and there's a lot of time involved, apparently. The job is not that big really and the fuel tnak dose not need to be dropped to do it it costs about $150 in parts. The parts needed will be a new fuel pump or pump sender assy. A new locking ring and gasket. and 2 new fule line retaining clips. That is for parts. Disconect the pos battery cable Un bolt the shocks from the rear axel jack the car up by the frame as high as you can if you do not have a hoist. Make sure it is blocked properly and safely. the locking ring for the sending unit is right behind and above the diferrential. Disconect he fule lines. Befor doing this purge the back pressure off under hood at the test nipple. Or you may get a bath of gasoline. Disconec the elec conector. Using a non ferreous drift knock the locking ring loose counter clock wise. Remove the sending unit, if you are just replaceing the pump and not the whole unit. be sure not to bend the float arm when removeing. Remove old sending unit gasket off tank. If just replacing pump follow included instructions to install on sending unit. Clean out gasket ring in tank making sure it is free of rust and debris Coat new gasket with some light grease and install this just helps hold it in place. Install sending unit in reverse of removal. Install new locking ring and drive closed with non ferrous drift. Making sure tabs are past flanges. Reconnect elec conetctor. Reinstall fuel lines and install new retaining clips. Reconect battery Turn ignotion on and let system pressurize and check for leaks. If no leaks reinstall shocks and lower back on to ground. take for test drive then recheck for leaks. Befor doin this make sure you have less than 1/4 thank of fuel, do the same if you take it in to be done the tech will apreciate it if it is not full of gas. Do not think i missed any thing Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyphoid Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Think we'll do it ourselves, after all. Thanks for the info. We also got the Chiltons (big book) info, but your directions are (the same but) much simpler to follow. We had several tell us we had to drop the tank, and others say no. Usually do own mechanic work, but never had to deal with the gas tank, etc. - just didn't want to get into all that mess, but apparently we don't need to do that...? Have access to a hoist. Guess we'll give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewq4b Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 (edited) Think we'll do it ourselves, after all. Thanks for the info. We also got the Chiltons (big book) info, but your directions are (the same but) much simpler to follow. We had several tell us we had to drop the tank, and others say no. Usually do own mechanic work, but never had to deal with the gas tank, etc. - just didn't want to get into all that mess, but apparently we don't need to do that...? Have access to a hoist. Guess we'll give it a try. Ya it is not hard to do. Fortunetly the CV GM TC are one of the easiest vehicals out there to work on. If you can get at the sending unit with out unbolting the shocks then do not bother to unbolt them. You should be able to gat at it on a hoist. The Shocks are the only thing stopping the rear axel from dropping right down and letting the rear springs fall out, if not equipped with air bags. Also if you unbolt the shocks be sure not to let the axel drop down so far so it damages the rubber brake line that goes from the chassis to the housing. The one thing I did forget to mention. The CV GM TC are one of the very few, maybe the only Ford vehicals that you can get at the sending unit with out dropping the tank. Just be thankfull it is not a T bird Cougar or Mark VII those are nighmares to get at the sending unit and do require unbolting the tank and Drive shaft and diff housing ect ect . And glad I could help. Let us know how it goes. Matthew Edited March 11, 2006 by matthewq4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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