SysEng

Still profitable. That platform costs so little to make, on a TC profit relative to plant cost must be 60%. That platform BTW until very very recently ( and maybe even today for all I know ) was essentially the only profit center in the entire company. All other lines were cost items not profit items...

In the case of that platform... pretty much forever... and by quite a bit ( profit margin wise ). Meanwhile it looks like the MK___ line ( all of them combined ) are STILL underselling just the TC. Heck, you could pick another brand to include in there and your still underselling the old TC :hysterical: Pure Genius I tell you... Pure Genius :doh: :reading:

:hysterical: Ford really has lost it here In 6 months they'll stop making the real Lincoln ( that would be the current TC ) and they should be out of business a few months after that... We all know that $5Billion in sales means nothing to these clowns.

Well, your right. FIAT literally haven't figured out the product lines yet with the merger. OTOH, trying to hide its a Dodge won't improve the image either. What does that do for the "quality" problem ... er... I mean image? Here's a thought for you. Chrysler standard quality testing ( at the design phase let alone testing... ) must work for 95% of customer base. You sell a million anything and you accept 50,000 ticked off customers If that many ticked off Chrysler customers came on the web... per year... Somebody mistook five "9"s to mean 95 I guess

From what your saying basically Ford shouldn't call it a flagship. Off a D3 platform that would make it a flag-dinghy...

Can't tell you, but I'm pretty sure it was NOT a "panther". I've seen "panthers" rear ended by 18 wheelers... and only damaged ( demolished would be a better word ) up to the "B" pillar. There is no way a Dodge Ram :huh: could do better against a "panther" and I doubt the Ram driver would survive such an encounter. BTW, the 18wheeler driver didn't survive the encounter... ... the officer did survive...

Now THAT is extraordinary. Never mind they're being pig headed ( to the point of utter stupidity ) on the panthers, but a gov't comes along and tells you to put in whatever you want and they'll cover the tab... ... and they say no ! ... and the Ford exec says its the best deal any gov't anywhere has ( or could ) offer... and they say no??? :shades: I know Detroit is hurting, but what are they putting in the water over there. Ford's exec suite positively must be on something there...

Seems to me it would be very easy for Ford to install the Escape Hybrid drive train into the "panthers" :shades: ... pretty near as is. Can you say 35MPG??? I agree however that Ford has lost a huge chunk of the police, fleet and limo markets. THAT is pretty obvious with this move. But hey, they got a D3 Explorer :huh: coming out real soon... :do what: So we can see where this is going... :titanic:

Issue, is that it is another in a series of "acceptable" ( OK, we'll see about that ) contenders. Therefore, it gets to split the market 4 -5 ways. The CVPI is a lone contender... FWIW it OWNS the entire market. Personally, if the "panthers" are actually canceled, this is a gift to Chrysler. As in the Charger/ C300 are a better choice than the other contenders in that class.

Your last line is 100% correct. Your top line there is 50% correct. The Atlanta Taurus was not profitable. However, not only are the panthers profitable... in recent times they were essentially a larger profit center than Ford corporate... thats right, you could shutdown the rest of the company and still run Ford out of STAP! And that was even with no inventory on the lot, no marketing and special order only... try THAT with any other product you know of ( automotive or otherwise ). How Ford can avoid bankruptcy throwing money at the D3 money losers, while neglecting money makers like the F series, Fusion and panthers... now there's the question... :shades:

Do I think Ford CAN avoid bankruptcy? YES! Do I think they will? Don't know. When a business man loses sight of the difference between a a customer with cash and one with plastic... doesn't matter what business your in, your done.

:shades: You think its funny having every uniform in the country giving you the evil eye? Wait 'til they find out the other end of the "panther mafia" ( the ones in the Lincoln Town Cars ) is meeting to discuss "offing" the Board of Directors @ Ford for screwing the books up...

Nobody will force early collection...? Of Course NOT! We're talking about time EXTENTIONS... Yeah, THATS a BIG Deal!

Go to MercuryVehicles and do a Build & Price on a loaded Mercury Grand Marquis and you'll get about $32K. :stats: A CV stripped ready for PI upfitting would be less than 25K. And Fords cost to build a TownCar ( let alone a CVPI ) is under $17K... The argument on price is a very serious one sales wise. Assuming Ford actually pulled the plug on the "panthers", the customer base ( around 150,000+ of them ) would have at least 5 similar platforms to choose from. Just the 60K police sales per year could easily be reduced to 10K sales... less if this thing comes out inferior... Who am I kidding. This thing will come out inferior to a C300 or Dodge Magnum V8 PI any day for sake

Hey jpd80, I may be a Ford fan, but I'm not that wet behind the ears either. Did you read the first and last lines of your post redacted above? Extending time is not a sign of a solid AAA loan agreement anywhere except in Obama's USA. AND, $34Billion of DEBT with $21Billion of cash on hand is still ( AT LEAST ) $13Billion in the hole! AND I'm assuming those $21B on hand aren't somebody else's money! As for Jensen there, y'all need to get your head outta' the sand. Company policy that ticks off $1.4Billion / year worth of customers in ONE market segment alone ( thats Cash NOT Credit ) doesn't help the bottom line ... AT ALL!

Well, thats not the shock I'd be concerned about. When do these notes come due? :shades: And can Ford cover them???

Hmmm, let me guess, the fact that a CV busted thru the wall first give it away? Even with crap all over it any "panther" still comes out looking better than this "purpose built" D3 wannabe :rolleyes: But hey, lets get this out on patrol first before we really dump on it. I'd like to see somebody else test that 75mph rear impact "survival" capability... Any takers??? :P .

:hysterical: And the guys at STAP thought they were out of a job.... :hysterical: This is right up there with the Lincoln LS would replace the Town Car Sure, if you bomb STAP, maybe. Originally, STAP was to shutdown 2010... then 2011... and now I hear maybe 2012... Heres my prediction. And you can take this to the bank>>> The year Ford goes bankrupt is the year STAP shuts down.

Oh, I want to see CHANGE. But unlike you I'd like it to be a bit more "substantial" than certain political promises, or Eco Bust engines... People who buy trucks aren't looking for the flavor of the month here... this is bread and butter to them... ... evidently something someone destined for the welfare office isn't too concerned about...

You mean you can't remember a single car with similar dimensions to D3 that came with a full frame??? Easier question ( since there were so few of them :rolleyes: ) how many cars had airbags???

I dunno, a 5.7L eco-bust engine in an F150? We'll see. This is a TRUCK Market for sake!

Fords strategy is not new. And you've basically revealed it yourself, with the comment that the "panthers" would be discontinued in 2011 or 2012... I might add maybe any date between today and the crack of doom. Seen this before from Ford. The "new" Interceptor by name will be intro'd and they'll see how it flys. If it goes with the customer base, they cancel the "panther". If it doesn't fly with the customer base ( and you have it on very good authority if its a D3 anything it won't ) ... well, the "panthers" soldier on ... until the crack of doom... most likely... Anybody remember the LTD... and the LTD II? How about the Lincoln LS would replace the TownCar ? Same game different decade. :reading:

LOL, or they can give the Toyota owner a new CV ( complete with fly by wire gas pedal that works :shades: ) as a loaner until they fix the Toy... or the owner figures out the CV is a better and probably more economic car to drive...

:hysterical: Probably the same way it made similar size cars from 30 years ago 500# lighter...

I'm game for the idea that cars in that class would be significantly better if they had full length perimeter frames. Whether BOF or unitized would be an issue depending on who exactly does the job... like anything else. 30 years ago, I owned a Malibu, at that time the size of the current D3s. That had a full length frame and was exceptionally rigid... it survived my rather brutal driving habits, though walls, trees and other cars may not have fared that well... And yes, it could easily reduce the weight of a D3 ( a car smaller that a Town Car yet heavier than same ) by at least 500# ...