Rant

[nvsked]

Explanation of Harbour Hours....

 

The means of production and labor is manipulated by the capitalist using rational calculation in order to realize a profit. So that capitalism as an economic activity is fundamentally teleological.

 

FPS / FTPM

 

Economics, the analysis of the production and distribution of goods, has to be abstracted out of other areas of knowledge. In other words, capitalism as a way of thinking divorces the production and distribution of goods from other concerns, such as politics, religion, ethics, etc., and treats production and distribution as independent human endeavors. In this view, the fundamental purpose and meaning of human life is productive labor. Marxism, which has more in common with capitalism than it has differences, also bases itself on these ideas.

 

What is happening to America

 

The fundamental unit of meaning in capitalist and economic thought is the object, that is, capitalism relies on the creation of a consumer culture, a large segment of the population that is not producing most of what it is consuming. Since capitalism, like mercantilism, is fundamentally based on distributing goods—moving goods from one place to another—consumers have no social relation to the people who produce the goods they consume. In non-capitalist societies, such as tribal societies, people have real social relations to the producers of the goods they consume. But when people no longer have social relations with others who make the objects they consume, that means that the only relation they have is with the object itself. So part of capitalism as a way of thinking is that people become "consumers," that is, they define themselves by the objects they purchase rather than the objects they produce

 

All in the name of capitalism... kinda contradicts the meaning United States of America

 

But it helps people understand the opposition to the UAW at least by capitalist. Question is Are politicians representing people or capitalist.......

 

Author of Article

Richard Hooker http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/GLOSSARY/CAPITAL.HTM

[Flyin Pig]

Explanation of Harbour Hours....

 

The means of production and labor is manipulated by the capitalist using rational calculation in order to realize a profit. So that capitalism as an economic activity is fundamentally teleological.

 

FPS / FTPM

 

Economics, the analysis of the production and distribution of goods, has to be abstracted out of other areas of knowledge. In other words, capitalism as a way of thinking divorces the production and distribution of goods from other concerns, such as politics, religion, ethics, etc., and treats production and distribution as independent human endeavors. In this view, the fundamental purpose and meaning of human life is productive labor. Marxism, which has more in common with capitalism than it has differences, also bases itself on these ideas.

 

What is happening to America

 

The fundamental unit of meaning in capitalist and economic thought is the object, that is, capitalism relies on the creation of a consumer culture, a large segment of the population that is not producing most of what it is consuming. Since capitalism, like mercantilism, is fundamentally based on distributing goods—moving goods from one place to another—consumers have no social relation to the people who produce the goods they consume. In non-capitalist societies, such as tribal societies, people have real social relations to the producers of the goods they consume. But when people no longer have social relations with others who make the objects they consume, that means that the only relation they have is with the object itself. So part of capitalism as a way of thinking is that people become "consumers," that is, they define themselves by the objects they purchase rather than the objects they produce

 

All in the name of capitalism... kinda contradicts the meaning United States of America

 

But it helps people understand the opposition to the UAW at least by capitalist. Question is Are politicians representing people or capitalist.......

 

Author of Article

Richard Hooker http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/GLOSSARY/CAPITAL.HTM

 

You've mixed up some some definitions here, nvsked...

 

Capitalism is the exact opposite of Mercantilism! Mercantilism is much like what the people who took over the Democratic Party want for the good ole USA, which is 'monetary wealth of a nation BY STRICT GOVERNMENTAL REGULATION OF THE ENTIRE NATIONAL ECONOMY'! Sounds a WHOLE LOT like Socialism to me, sport.

 

Capitalism is characterized by PRIVATE ownership... AND the distrubution of goods that are DETERMINED BY COMPETITION OF GOODS IN A FREE MARKET!! Don't listen to somebody spew their misguided anger about our country, man. I beg you.

 

And, I'll let YOU look up the definition of Marxism. But I will let you in on this thought... When you read the part about 'Classless Society', Who do you think will be running that Marxist classless society??? YOUR GOVERNMENT! AGAIN, that sounds a WHOLE lot like Sosialism.

 

If you want to rant, nvsked, I'll listen. I just want you to THINK FOR YOURSELF.

 

Love ya brother!

[Fatso]

What bugs me are high taxes.It is like the guy with payroll deducted taxes is the enemy.Obama wants to increase taxes on anyone earning $75,000 a year and up.So why work extra hours and make say85-90 thousand?Just when I think well O.K. I will get ahead if I work all I can the government steps in and gives my money to someone who doesn`t want to work.It is not a contribution.The Government will destroy your life and put you in prison if you fail to comply.I do not have a problem with helping a person but the USA has the richest poor people in the world.besides I ain`t a fool.Lots of people use the system for 'free money'.I like the fair tax.I need all my money.I earned it didn`t I?

[nvsked]

You've mixed up some some definitions here, nvsked...

 

 

If you want to rant, nvsked, I'll listen. I just want you to THINK FOR YOURSELF.

 

Love ya brother!

 

The post was made to provoke thought, awareness, and yes just like your post I arranged things as I see them. The relationship to the ford structure was all mine (thoughts), which is why I provided the source.

 

Have a good day.

[now]

The same mindset that you complain about is the one that has set you up to be able to work overtime and make over 75 grand. Those so called "richest poor people" you speak of could have been hired by Ford Motor Co. instead of you. You are all living in a "me" mindset. If it wasn't for orgaanized labor you wouldn't be writing on this site. Don't forget it

[Trimdingman]

What bugs me are high taxes.It is like the guy with payroll deducted taxes is the enemy.Obama wants to increase taxes on anyone earning $75,000 a year and up.So why work extra hours and make say85-90 thousand?Just when I think well O.K. I will get ahead if I work all I can the government steps in and gives my money to someone who doesn`t want to work.It is not a contribution.The Government will destroy your life and put you in prison if you fail to comply.I do not have a problem with helping a person but the USA has the richest poor people in the world.besides I ain`t a fool.Lots of people use the system for 'free money'.I like the fair tax.I need all my money.I earned it didn`t I?

 

I agree with what you are saying. Let me add this: A person who is earning minimum wage pays no taxes. He still is recieving the benefits of our collective system, such as military, police, health care, education, etc. If he earns say $7.00 an hour, or whatever minimum wage is, then he is being subsidized by probably another $7.00 an hour; so he is actually earning $14.00 an hour. His employer isn't paying him that extra $7.00, we are; so we are really subsidizing not the worker, but his employer. I would like to see taxes applied equally by percentage and capped at a reasonable amount, like 10 or 15 thousand dollars per person. Government services would be adjusted so that this amount of tax would cover it.

[Trimdingman]

Those so called "richest poor people" you speak of could have been hired by Ford Motor Co. instead of you.

 

How long do you think they would last at Ford? That has been tried before. If you are a chronic welfare case, you will not make it at Ford. People on welfare value their lives. They will not sell pieces of their lives for any price. They would rather live in squallor than be a slave to someone for money. The only cure for them is to stop giving them money.

[now]

Do you think every poor person in our country wants to sit around and collect welfare. Turn off Rush and Fox and join the real world

[Trimdingman]

Do you think every poor person in our country wants to sit around and collect welfare. Turn off Rush and Fox and join the real world

 

It is not hard to earn a living in America if you want to. I see immigrants from poor countries who have nothing becoming rich very quickly given this opportunity. If someone does not want to collect welfare, then why is he doing it? I see help wanted signs in shop windows. I see old people mowing grass and shovelling snow. I don't see welfare recipients offering their services. I could give part-time work to people, as could most people who own their own homes. My free time is worth more $10.00 per hour. I will pay that to anyone who wants to do my chores for me. Most anyone would. Why do farmers have to import people to harvest their crops? It is because some Americans would rather collect welfare than work. Get rid of welfare and reduce taxes and the economy would greatly improve. There would be jobs for everybody. The ripple effect would result in elimination of much fat. There would be less crime, fewer police, lawyers, courts, prisons. There would be fewer social workers, offices, welfare fraud investigators, corresponding cuts in taxes. With that extra money in their pockets, people would consume more. There would be more jobs. Wages would rise as companies would have to compete for a dwindling labor supply. The way it is now, we have many millions of people sucking our economy dry and either not working or doing work that is unnecessary and producing nothing but another crop of lazy beaurocrats and welfare recipients.

[now]

Go to your local job center and see how many of these good jobs are left. Corporate greed is at an all time high. If you don't think so check out Fortune 5oo's top 1000 companies and how much money they made last year. Then come back and blame the welfare system. Thank you to GW and his band of pioneers. Its the poor guys fault. Thats hogwash

[poopstain]

Go to your local job center and see how many of these good jobs are left. Corporate greed is at an all time high. If you don't think so check out Fortune 5oo's top 1000 companies and how much money they made last year. Then come back and blame the welfare system. Thank you to GW and his band of pioneers. Its the poor guys fault. Thats hogwash

 

I think Corporate greed is better than whipsawing!! Union against union is not hogwash, it's bullshit!!!!

 

You probaly know all about that wouldn't you!!

[Flyin Pig]

The post was made to provoke thought, awareness, and yes just like your post I arranged things as I see them. The relationship to the ford structure was all mine (thoughts), which is why I provided the source.

 

Have a good day.

I don't post much but, I like to listen (so to speak). Your post did what you intended for it.

[S.Knight]

You've mixed up some some definitions here, nvsked...

 

Capitalism is the exact opposite of Mercantilism! Mercantilism is much like what the people who took over the Democratic Party want for the good ole USA, which is 'monetary wealth of a nation BY STRICT GOVERNMENTAL REGULATION OF THE ENTIRE NATIONAL ECONOMY'! Sounds a WHOLE LOT like Socialism to me, sport.

 

Capitalism is characterized by PRIVATE ownership... AND the distrubution of goods that are DETERMINED BY COMPETITION OF GOODS IN A FREE MARKET!! Don't listen to somebody spew their misguided anger about our country, man. I beg you.

 

And, I'll let YOU look up the definition of Marxism. But I will let you in on this thought... When you read the part about 'Classless Society', Who do you think will be running that Marxist classless society??? YOUR GOVERNMENT! AGAIN, that sounds a WHOLE lot like Sosialism.

 

If you want to rant, nvsked, I'll listen. I just want you to THINK FOR YOURSELF.

 

Love ya brother!

 

Capitalism is an economic system which, as you say, has individuals make decisions on all the factors of production. What you are missing in your definition of mercantilism is that it is a political philosophy which springs out of the capitalist system. Mercantilism is the belief that government controls such as trade barriers,tariffs and quotas should be used to create a persistent balance of trade surplus. Mercantilists believed that by limiting imports and maintaining high levels of exports money(gold and silver) would flow into the country creating wealth. This happens within the capitalist system and are not opposite things as you say.

 

The "Wealth of Nations" by Smith attacked mercantilism as self defeating. He found that the restraint of trade slowed the creation of wealth and that by removing these barriers the state would grow far richer.

Edited April 23, 2008 by S.Knight

[nvsked]

Capitalism is an economic system which, as you say, has individuals make decisions on all the factors of production. What you are missing in your definition of mercantilism is that it is a political philosophy which springs out of the capitalist system. Mercantilism is the belief that government controls such as trade barriers,tariffs and other government controls should be used to create a persistent balance of trade surplus. Mercantilists believed that by limiting imports and maintaining high levels of exports money(gold and silver) would flow into the country creating wealth. This happens within the capitalist system and are not opposite things as you say.

 

The "Wealth of Nations" by Smith attacked mercantilism as self defeating. He found that the restraint of trade slowed the creation of wealth and that by removing these barriers the state would grow far richer.

 

 

Very good!

[Bored of Pisteon]

The same mindset that you complain about is the one that has set you up to be able to work overtime and make over 75 grand. Those so called "richest poor people" you speak of could have been hired by Ford Motor Co. instead of you. You are all living in a "me" mindset. If it wasn't for orgaanized labor you wouldn't be writing on this site. Don't forget it

 

I would happen to think that maybe the 1st Amendment is the reason why we are writing on this web-site! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Flyin Pig]

... What you are missing in your definition of mercantilism is that it is a political philosophy which springs out of the capitalist system.

...

The definition I gave was complete. And fact.

 

YOUR post is quite backwards... Capitalism "sprang out of" Mercantilism. Mercantilism fueled war in its day BECAUSE of government intervention and over control. Please look it up; I know you don't want to be misleading, S.Knight.

 

:reading:

[S.Knight]

The definition I gave was complete. And fact.

 

YOUR post is quite backwards... Capitalism "sprang out of" Mercantilism. Mercantilism fueled war in its day BECAUSE of government intervention and over control. Please look it up; I know you don't want to be misleading, S.Knight.

 

:reading:

 

What I was writing to dispute is your inaccurate description of capitalism being the exact opposite of mercantilism. I was misleading using “sprung out”. I was trying to show how closely the two systems were related not the order in which they appeared.

[nvsked]

What I was writing to dispute is your inaccurate description of capitalism being the exact opposite of mercantilism. I was misleading using “sprung out”. I was trying to show how closely the two systems were related not the order in which they appeared.

 

I agree with both of you, the systems are close,.... From Wikipedia. Adam Smith's attack on mercantilism and his reasoning for "the system of natural liberty" in The Wealth of Nations (1776) are usually taken as the beginning of classical political economy. Smith devised a set of concepts that remain strongly associated with capitalism today.....He criticized monopolies, tariffs, duties, and other state enforced restrictions of his time and believed that the market is the most fair and efficient arbitrator of resources.

 

So if the above statement is true, and so many political administrations agree, how do we explain free trade deals??

 

The values of classical political economy are strongly associated with the classical liberal doctrine of minimal government intervention in the economy.

 

Free trade deals would seem to contradict "minimal government intervention."

[S.Knight]

I agree with both of you, the systems are close,.... From Wikipedia. Adam Smith's attack on mercantilism and his reasoning for "the system of natural liberty" in The Wealth of Nations (1776) are usually taken as the beginning of classical political economy. Smith devised a set of concepts that remain strongly associated with capitalism today.....He criticized monopolies, tariffs, duties, and other state enforced restrictions of his time and believed that the market is the most fair and efficient arbitrator of resources.

 

So if the above statement is true, and so many political administrations agree, how do we explain free trade deals??

 

The values of classical political economy are strongly associated with the classical liberal doctrine of minimal government intervention in the economy.

 

Free trade deals would seem to contradict "minimal government intervention."

 

Free trade deals are agreements which force countries to not use artificial means to limit trade(ie. tariffs,quotas). The government is making an agreement to not interfere... thats not interference.

 

To explain free trade deals it is important to mentally step away from your role as an autoworker. The economy suffers inefficiency when barriers to trade are put in place. Protectionist policies designed to keep employment high ultimately hurt consumers. Consumers are forced to pay the true price of the product(price product could be imported for) plus the cost of the tax imposed upon it(to make the local good more attractive).

 

Step back into your role as autoworker.... do we want protectionist policies put in place to make our cars cheaper to dissuade consumers from purchasing foreign cars? Of course we do. Does the guy buying the car? No...he wants to be able to buy the car at the lower price anything else hurts him financially. What economists find after adding all the number is that the cost of protecting jobs is not worth the cost to consumers.

Edited April 24, 2008 by S.Knight

[nvsked]

Free trade deals are agreements which force countries to not use artificial means to limit trade(ie. tariffs,quotas). The government is making an agreement to not interfere... thats not interference.

 

To explain free trade deals it is important to mentally step away from your role as an autoworker. The economy suffers inefficiency when barriers to trade are put in place. Protectionist policies designed to keep employment high ultimately hurt consumers. Consumers are forced to pay the true price of the product(price product could be imported for) plus the cost of the tax imposed upon it(to make the local good more attractive).

 

Step back into your role as autoworker.... do we want protectionist policies put in place to make our cars cheaper to dissuade consumers from purchasing foreign cars? Of course we do. Does the guy buying the car? No...he wants to be able to buy the car at the lower price anything else hurts him financially. What economists find after adding all the number is that the cost of protecting jobs is not worth the cost to consumers.

 

gee aren't we condescending, ok smart one...explain devalued currency, Mexican import tariffs, and socialized medicine.

[S.Knight]

gee aren't we condescending, ok smart one...explain devalued currency, Mexican import tariffs, and socialized medicine.

How can what I wrote be considered condescending? Because I said to consider it as if you weren't an autoworker? I only present it that way because what is best for us as a group is not what is good for everyone else. Your first two queries I know nothing about. As for socialized medicine... I would recommend you watch "Sicko", Michael Moore will tell you all you want to know.

[Flyin Pig]

How can what I wrote be considered condescending? Because I said to consider it as if you weren't an autoworker? I only present it that way because what is best for us as a group is not what is good for everyone else. Your first two queries I know nothing about. As for socialized medicine... I would recommend you watch "Sicko", Michael Moore will tell you all you want to know.

I, for one, will NEVER trust politicians with my medical decisions.

[Flyin Pig]

I, for one, will NEVER trust politicians with my medical decisions.

Healthcare is NOT a right.

http://www.bdt.com/pages/Peikoff.html

[nvsked]

I, for one, will NEVER trust politicians with my medical decisions.

 

You fail to realize the impact of insurance and drug lobbyist on your health care issues then

[Flyin Pig]

gee aren't we condescending, ok smart one...explain devalued currency, Mexican import tariffs, and socialized medicine.

I figure your post was aimed at either of us, nvsked...all I can spew on devalued currency, is an opinion. And we all know about those.

 

Tarrifs, on the other hand, is a nasty subject I'd rather stay away from.