2009 Review and Features

[Green Lantern]

Great find Dan. Thanks!

[mkaresh]

Great find Dan. Thanks!

 

Anyone read it and see a mention of whether the rear brakes are discs or drums?

[Transpower]

Of course I'm waiting also, but here's what Ford said:

 

More capable. Ford Motor says the 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid on sale next month and Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan hybrids due in 2010 will be able to run on electric power alone up to 40 mph - 10 mph faster than current models. As now, when the battery runs down, the gas engine kicks in and recharges it.

http://www.mydesert.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...6/1003/business

 

 

Bogus. I have a 2008 MMH and I can go 40 mph in electric mode.

[Green Lantern]

Anyone read it and see a mention of whether the rear brakes are discs or drums?

 

 

Owner's guide lists the following under maintenance:

 

"Inspect brake pads, shoes, rotors, drums, brake lines and hoses and parking brake"

 

This is the only reference I have found so far in the Owner's Guide.

 

 

In the Maintenance Schedule the following is listed:

 

Brakes

Your Ford or Lincoln Mercury Dealership has the right brake parts for your vehicle and their factory-trained

technicians know exactly how to install them. Ford Original Equipment and Motorcraft replacement

brake pads, shoes, rotors and drums meet the stringent standards of Ford Motor Company engineers, and

they’re also Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) compliant. In addition, all Ford Original

Equipment replacement brake pads, shoes, rotors, and drums are vehicle tested for durability and noise

suppression. The right brake parts and installation are essential to proper brake system operation.

[scottfisher]

Owner's guide lists the following under maintenance:

 

"Inspect brake pads, shoes, rotors, drums, brake lines and hoses and parking brake"

 

This is the only reference I have found so far in the Owner's Guide.

 

 

In the Maintenance Schedule the following is listed:

 

Brakes

Your Ford or Lincoln Mercury Dealership has the right brake parts for your vehicle and their factory-trained

technicians know exactly how to install them. Ford Original Equipment and Motorcraft replacement

brake pads, shoes, rotors and drums meet the stringent standards of Ford Motor Company engineers, and

they’re also Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) compliant. In addition, all Ford Original

Equipment replacement brake pads, shoes, rotors, and drums are vehicle tested for durability and noise

suppression. The right brake parts and installation are essential to proper brake system operation.

 

 

Most likely a cut and paste statement, standard verbage thruout entire product line for past few years, don't read anything into it.

[Green Lantern]

Most likely a cut and paste statement, standard verbage thruout entire product line for past few years, don't read anything into it.

 

I just noted what was in the docs. I figure I will know for sure when I get my FEH in August (hopefully).

[GaryG]

Bogus. I have a 2008 MMH and I can go 40 mph in electric mode.

 

When I got my new '05 FEH, Ford was stating that it would go up to 25mph in electric only. That was bogus also, but it was very nice to find I could go over 30mph in EV the first day. Later after break-in, I found in ideal conditions you could get up to 40mph in electric mode in the '05 FWD FEH.

 

It was not perfectly clear in an article 2/14/08 that one of Ford's top Hybrid engineers stated the '09 FEH/MMH would have the same upgrades to the eCVT as the new Fusion/Milan Hybrids in 2010. Ford has now confirmed that the '09 FEH/MMH will have the same eCVT as the new Fusion/Milan Hybrids. These improvements include a new Variable Voltage Converter (VVC) to boost voltage and electric Motor RPM. A new transaxle fluid has been formulated also to allow higher RPM with less electric motor resistance. On top of all this, the 330V battery was not downsized like a newer cheaper and smaller 275V HV battery planned for the Fusion/Milan. The new '09 FEH/MMH will have a much improved efficient EV mode than prior years. The new VVC reduces conversion losses and heat to and from the HV battery. The Aux battery A/C will be eliminated in the Fusion/Milan hybrid because of new VVC, but it's not clear if it was eliminated in the '09 FEH/MMH. Ford is stating that the '09 FEH/MMH is 10mph faster in EV than prior models, so compared to what we really get with prior models, we may get even higher EV speeds than 48mph. The computer threshold is set at 40mph in prior models, so we will have to wait and see if that changed to 50mph in the '09 FEH/MMH.

[scottfisher]

I just noted what was in the docs. I figure I will know for sure when I get my FEH in August (hopefully).

 

You just like to rub it in that yours is in the system and mines not :shades:

[Dan_R]

When I got my new '05 FEH, Ford was stating that it would go up to 25mph in electric only. That was bogus also, but it was very nice to find I could go over 30mph in EV the first day. Later after break-in, I found in ideal conditions you could get up to 40mph in electric mode in the '05 FWD FEH.

 

It was not perfectly clear in an article 2/14/08 that one of Ford's top Hybrid engineers stated the '09 FEH/MMH would have the same upgrades to the eCVT as the new Fusion/Milan Hybrids in 2010. Ford has now confirmed that the '09 FEH/MMH will have the same eCVT as the new Fusion/Milan Hybrids. These improvements include a new Variable Voltage Converter (VVC) to boost voltage and electric Motor RPM. A new transaxle fluid has been formulated also to allow higher RPM with less electric motor resistance. On top of all this, the 330V battery was not downsized like a newer cheaper and smaller 275V HV battery planned for the Fusion/Milan. The new '09 FEH/MMH will have a much improved efficient EV mode than prior years. The new VVC reduces conversion losses and heat to and from the HV battery. The Aux battery A/C will be eliminated in the Fusion/Milan hybrid because of new VVC, but it's not clear if it was eliminated in the '09 FEH/MMH. Ford is stating that the '09 FEH/MMH is 10mph faster in EV than prior models, so compared to what we really get with prior models, we may get even higher EV speeds than 48mph. The computer threshold is set at 40mph in prior models, so we will have to wait and see if that changed to 50mph in the '09 FEH/MMH.

 

 

Gary,

 

I too noted that the 2008 specifications indicated a 25MPH max in electric mode and the 2009 spec says 40MPH max. This means something has changed.

 

I work for a giant computer company; in our case if we publish a spec value it means we fully support it. In order for us to make a spec change like this we would have to ensure that 100% of the product shipped meets the promised spec value. This generally means that some of the product will exceed the specification to account for the entire distribution.

 

Thanks for explaining. It always nice when someone back up their statements with data; you always do this and those of us that read your posts benefit.

 

Regards,

Dan

[GopherM]

:hyper: Check this out! 2009 FEH Manuals!

 

Found the complete 2009 Escape Hybrid manual set on motorcraftservice.com

Here are links to all the 2009 manuals...

 

2009 FEH Owners Guide (300+ pages)

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/cont...1/09hevog1e.pdf

 

2009 FEH Quick Reference

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/cont...1/09hevqg1e.pdf

 

2009 FEH Maintenance Schedule (48 pages)

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/cont...1/09frdmg1e.pdf

 

Dan...Thanks for this post. I am ordering my new 2009 I4 Limited today. This gave me the opportunity to pre-read any of the things I was interested in knowing about the vehicle.

 

2009 FEH SYNC (90 page)

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/cont...3/09sycsy1e.pdf

 

2009 FEH Navigation (194 pages)

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/cont...2/09ngnsn1e.pdf

 

 

Non Hybrid folks can get their documents at http://www.motorcraftservice.com/

 

This should give us somthing to read while we wait for our orders to roll off the production line! My '09 FEH should be built and shipped next week!

[reball]

Non Hybrid folks can get their documents at http://www.motorcraftservice.com/

 

Thanks, Dan, for this information. From responses to my previous question regarding engine braking capability, this will not excite a lot of people, but the 2009 users manual explicitly states that the new 6-speed transmission has the O/D lockout button controlling both the lock-out and also a Grade Assist feature. This sounds like an excellent compromise between maximum driver control and user simplicity, and should be of great value to drivers in hilly regions. Thanks again!

[GaryG]

Thanks Dan R

 

I read the '09 owners manual last night and it looks like Ford still has a 40mph EV speed limit and they did keep the Aux battery A/C. Looks like Ford also warns against the hypermiler technique call FAS (turning the key off while moving). They also warn you that you will void your warranty if you do not run approved 5-20W oil. I recommend not using 0-20W Mobil 1 as some people have done here for a while now. Ford confirmed they have the ability to retrieve driving history before an accident or what caused damage to a system by the driver. Basically, Ford is Big Brother watching you when it comes to warranty or accidents now.

 

When I talk to the inventor of the SGII Ron Delong, he told me that a SGIII would only be developed if he added this feature to read the history like Ford now can monitor. It would be nice if we could read this data to confirm or deny anything Ford claims for warranty issues.

[billyk24]

Thanks Dan R

 

I read the '09 owners manual last night and it looks like Ford still has a 40mph EV speed limit and they did keep the Aux battery A/C. Looks like Ford also warns against the hypermiler technique call FAS (turning the key off while moving). They also warn you that you will void your warranty if you do not run approved 5-20W oil. I recommend not using 0-20W Mobil 1 as some people have done here for a while now. Ford confirmed they have the ability to retrieve driving history before an accident or what caused damage to a system by the driver. Basically, Ford is Big Brother watching you when it comes to warranty or accidents now.

 

When I talk to the inventor of the SGII Ron Delong, he told me that a SGIII would only be developed if he added this feature to read the history like Ford now can monitor. It would be nice if we could read this data to confirm or deny anything Ford claims for warranty issues.

 

 

Where is the "black-box" in the 2009 Escape Hybrid that can retrieve driving history or similar?

[GaryG]

Where is the "black-box" in the 2009 Escape Hybrid that can retrieve driving history or similar?

 

Hi Billy

 

I didn't call it a black box Billy, all Ford has to do is access the OBDII connection and give permission from Ford dealerships to see prior data. Read the manual for details.

[fmorriso]

:hyper: Check this out! 2009 FEH Manuals!

 

Found the complete 2009 Escape Hybrid manual set on motorcraftservice.com

Here are links to all the 2009 manuals...

 

Page 24 of the Navigation guide mentions an optional camera for use when the vehicle is put into reverse. Is that available on the FEH/MMH? If so, in what trim?

[fmorriso]

Anyone read it and see a mention of whether the rear brakes are discs or drums?

From page 203 of the 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid Owner's Manual (First Printing):

 

Four-wheel anti-lock brake system (ABS)

 

Your vehicle is equipped with an Anti-lock Braking System (ABS). This

system helps you maintain steering control during emergency stops by

keeping the brakes from locking. Noise from the ABS pump motor and

brake pedal pulsation may be observed during ABS braking and the

brake pedal may suddenly travel a little farther as soon as ABS braking is

done and normal brake operation resumes. These are normal

characteristics of the ABS and should be no reason for concern.

 

I'm not a mechanic, so I leave it to others to talk about how to get 4-wheel ABS with a mix of disc/drum brakes.

[GaryG]

From page 203 of the 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid Owner's Manual (First Printing):

 

 

 

I'm not a mechanic, so I leave it to others to talk about how to get 4-wheel ABS with a mix of disc/drum brakes.

 

The window sticker on a new MMH shows front disc and rear drums, so I think that pretty much clears that up.

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...ost&id=7305

[mkaresh]

From page 203 of the 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid Owner's Manual (First Printing):

 

I'm not a mechanic, so I leave it to others to talk about how to get 4-wheel ABS with a mix of disc/drum brakes.

 

A number of cars have had ABS with rear drums. Nothing new there.

[StevenCaylor]

A number of cars have had ABS with rear drums. Nothing new there.

 

Ford has had rear ABS available since the late sixties. Remember "Sure-Track".

[Green Lantern]

The window sticker on a new MMH shows front disc and rear drums, so I think that pretty much clears that up.

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...ost&id=7305

 

I found a dealer in San Diego that has some info on the '09 FEH's on their site. In that information they list power front disc rear 10" drum brakes as well.

 

North County Ford

Edited July 12, 2008 by Green Lantern

[mmdlcab]

see the product brochure thread i posted yesterday. I noticed this am that it definately says rear drum.

[fmorriso]

see the product brochure thread i posted yesterday. I noticed this am that it definately says rear drum.

Part of the confusion (well, OK, maybe just my confusion) is because the 2008 FEH's (I saw one today at my local dealer) say 4-wheel disc brakes on the window sticker while the 2009's (per the one window sticker posted online that I've seen) clearly are going to have a front-disc/real-drum combination.

[scottfisher]

You can argue both sides, disc verses drum on an engineering aspect, and both have plus and minus features.

 

The deciding factor in today's market from a business sense is that drums are less expensive, and they can charge just as much for the vehicle as if it was equipped with disc.

 

Ford will not lose one sale to a competitor due to them going with drums for 09, they will sell 25,000 units and have demand for much more. With other product lines, such as Focus or Fusion, with side by side comparison's, there is potential to lose sales to those with better perceived features.

 

Take a low number , lets say drums are 10 dollars less per vehicle, thats 25000 dollars an engineer has just cost saved, and thus caused profit for Ford.

 

My cost savings estimate is also based on only Hybrids getting drums, if it is the entire Escape line-up, then multiply the savings accordingly. If they did the entire line-up though they risk being at a feature disadvantage to competitors. Its all a risk verses reward type scenario.

 

Believe me, the auto industry monitors cost by the penny, and going from disc to drum is alot of pennies, and someone's job in Dearborn was justified to be kept instead of cut when he or she made the decision.

 

I'm just trying to help people understand the root cause for the switch, not to stir a whole debate. Cost savings is the final factor in the auto industry above all else, though they will advertise a different storyline.

Edited July 13, 2008 by scottfisher

[Green Lantern]

You can argue both sides, disc verses drum on an engineering aspect, and both have plus and minus features.

 

The deciding factor in today's market from a business sense is that drums are less expensive, and they can charge just as much for the vehicle as if it was equipped with disc.

 

Ford will not lose one sale to a competitor due to them going with drums for 09, they will sell 25,000 units and have demand for much more. With other product lines, such as Focus or Fusion, with side by side comparison's, there is potential to lose sales to those with better perceived features.

 

Take a low number , lets say drums are 10 dollars less per vehicle, thats 2.5 million dollars an engineer has just cost saved, and thus caused profit for Ford.

 

My cost savings estimate is also based on only Hybrids getting drums, if it is the entire Escape line-up, then multiply the savings accordingly. If they did the entire line-up though they risk being at a feature disadvantage to competitors. Its all a risk verses reward type scenario.

 

Believe me, the auto industry monitors cost by the penny, and going from disc to drum is alot of pennies, and someone's job in Dearborn was justified to be kept instead of cut when he or she made the decision.

 

I'm just trying to help people understand the root cause for the switch, not to stir a whole debate. Cost savings is the final factor in the auto industry above all else, though they will advertise a different storyline.

 

 

Scott, not to nitpick but $10 per 25,000 units nets Ford $250,000 not $2,500,000. But, as you said, a penny saved is a penny saved.

[scottfisher]

Scott, not to nitpick but $10 per 25,000 units nets Ford $250,000 not $2,500,000. But, as you said, a penny saved is a penny saved.

 

 

Sorry about that error in calculation, you'd die if you ever heard them argue about something like removing a rust inhibitor from a screw or bolt that cost about .005 of a penny and they can save 5 dollars per every 1000 in a box.

 

So they use 10 screws in each car, saving themselves 5 cents per car and they get real excited about, and I mean real excited. They don't like to mention what the screw looks like in 3 years in Northern Climates with salt and cloride exposure.

 

But back to disc and drums, the change was for monetary reasons and I am still buying one, I am comfortable with drum brakes, and tell myself they have less drag than disc to justify the change.