Trimdingman Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 We are not hearing much in the media these days about the Iraq War. I guess it is not going as they planned. We are not losing. Are they are afraid of putting the Democrats in a bad light before the election? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I saw on the news that May was the lowest casualty month for the US since the start of the war. I guess some media is still reporting something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) We are not hearing much in the media these days about the Iraq War. I guess it is not going as they planned. We are not losing. Are they are afraid of putting the Democrats in a bad light before the election? We haven't been successful, but we should credit Iran. Didn't you hear Nancy Pelosi? "Whatever the military success, and progress that may have been made, the surge didn't accomplish its goal. And some of the success of the surge is that the goodwill of the Iranians-they decided in Basra when the fighting would end, they negotiated that cessation of hostilities-the Iranians." Link Again, whatever success is made in Iraq (there is none, btw), is due to the goodwill of Iran. Edited June 2, 2008 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 We haven't been successful, but we should credit Iran. Didn't you hear Nancy Pelosi? "Whatever the military success, and progress that may have been made, the surge didn't accomplish its goal. And some of the success of the surge is that the goodwill of the Iranians-they decided in Basra when the fighting would end, they negotiated that cessation of hostilities-the Iranians." Link Again, whatever success is made in Iraq (there is none, btw), is due to the goodwill of Iran. Iran? goodwill? I hope you're being sarcastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Iran? goodwill? I hope you're being sarcastic. Wasn't ME who said it. Those are her words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Wasn't ME who said it. Those are her words. Then I hope you aren't repeating her words with any bit of seriousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 How can anyone repeat anything Pelosi says, with any amount of seriousness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Then I hope you aren't repeating her words with any bit of seriousness. Only that she is seriously insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 We are not hearing much in the media these days about the Iraq War. I guess it is not going as they planned. We are not losing. Are they are afraid of putting the Democrats in a bad light before the election? Yeah I'm sure we are just kicking butt over there :rolleyes: No news, is after all, good news, right? Oh that's right, we have no chance of winning and never did. That's right. I guess Obama leaving some church or Clinton throwing in the towel, with Mcain working hard to become Mcbush is always more important than some kid buying it from an IED. I must admit, the current idiot we have in office has done a remarkable job of passing the buck though. Mini-rant over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) Yeah I'm sure we are just kicking butt over there :rolleyes: No news, is after all, good news, right? Oh that's right, we have no chance of winning and never did. That's right. I guess Obama leaving some church or Clinton throwing in the towel, with Mcain working hard to become Mcbush is always more important than some kid buying it from an IED. I must admit, the current idiot we have in office has done a remarkable job of passing the buck though. Mini-rant over. Our monthly combat losses in Iraq for May were pretty close to the normal non-combat fatality rate for the military in general. Yep. Definitely sounds like we're losing. As hard as everyone on the left keeps trying to paint this war as another Vietnam, it gets harder and harder for them every day. Edited June 2, 2008 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Yeah I'm sure we are just kicking butt over there :rolleyes: No news, is after all, good news, right? Oh that's right, we have no chance of winning and never did. That's right. I guess Obama leaving some church or Clinton throwing in the towel, with Mcain working hard to become Mcbush is always more important than some kid buying it from an IED. I must admit, the current idiot we have in office has done a remarkable job of passing the buck though. Mini-rant over. There's plenty of criticism for everyone. Here's some interesting reading from a Pentagon insider. http://www.waranddecision.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Our monthly combat losses in Iraq for May were pretty close to the normal non-combat fatality rate for the military in general. Yep. Definitely sounds like we're losing. As hard as everyone on the left keeps trying to paint this war as another Vietnam, it gets harder and harder for them every day. If you base success on fatality rate, perhaps things have stabilized for the moment. Unfortunately, we are no closer to establishing anything resembling a stable democratic government there(does anyone really believe this will happen anymore), and likely never will. There is no evidence we are winning anything. It doesn't matter, though. The next election will likely put a democratic idiot in office to replace out republican idiot, and they will likely bring the troops home, thank God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 If you base success on fatality rate, perhaps things have stabilized for the moment. Unfortunately, we are no closer to establishing anything resembling a stable democratic government there(does anyone really believe this will happen anymore), and likely never will. There is no evidence we are winning anything. It doesn't matter, though. The next election will likely put a democratic idiot in office to replace out republican idiot, and they will likely bring the troops home, thank God. Well, the big next hurdle in Iraq is to see how the next provincial elections go this Fall. If they go well, General Petreaus said he would consider lowering troop levels beginning as early as November. Amazing how that announcement failed to stick with the media. Instead, they want to keep pounding the drum saying that we will be in Iraq forever, despite recent hints quite to the contrary. Petreaus says we will leave when the job is done. If politics forces us out before then, we WILL fail. Not because the invasion was flawed or the occupation was flawed or our military is flawed, but because public opinion is flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 There's plenty of criticism for everyone. Here's some interesting reading from a Pentagon insider. http://www.waranddecision.com/ Agreed. I do think that its important to stop pointing fingers (I wouldn't care if Elmer Fudd was responsible for the whole thing), and start making decisions on how to fix the situation. It is very unlikely there will be a stable peace in Iraq or in the Middle East. Everyone makes mistakes, we learn more from our failures than our successes. Time to cut our losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Well, the big next hurdle in Iraq is to see how the next provincial elections go this Fall. If they go well, General Petreaus said he would consider lowering troop levels beginning as early as November. Amazing how that announcement failed to stick with the media. Instead, they want to keep pounding the drum saying that we will be in Iraq forever, despite recent hints quite to the contrary. Petreaus says we will leave when the job is done. If politics forces us out before then, we WILL fail. Not because the invasion was flawed or the occupation was flawed or our military is flawed, but because public opinion is flawed. I think people equate us being there forever because thats what the politicians are saying. That's been Bush's tune in the past and Mccain's in the present. You can blame the media to a degree, but that's from the horse's mouth. Many people would argue having an occupying force is and will never be a victory. And regardless of lowering troop levels, everyone is saying that an occupying force will be necessary for a long time to come. Again, I think that the next democratic president will make every effort to bring troops home, and IMO, that is a good thing (not that I am pro-dem, repub, or whatever). And yes, Iraq will go to hell in a hand basket. But it always will. The difference is 3000 dead US troops (and another 2500+ contractors killed) now, or many more than that years from now with no end in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) Agreed. I do think that its important to stop pointing fingers (I wouldn't care if Elmer Fudd was responsible for the whole thing), and start making decisions on how to fix the situation. It is very unlikely there will be a stable peace in Iraq or in the Middle East. Everyone makes mistakes, we learn more from our failures than our successes. Time to cut our losses. Things seem to be stabilizing. We need to have a presence over there. We need to protect that oil. The American way of life is a lot better than what Muslims are used to. I am sure that a great many of them, after they get past that rigid religious nonsense, will welcome it. It is not really the "American" way. It is being free to live the way you want. I personally don't like religion. Some people do. That is their right. They should also have the right to take it or leave it without punishment by the government. Christianity is just as bad as Islam. The difference over here is that it isn't the law. When it was the law, they burned people at the stake. Liberal media want us to lose the war. They would rather have us lose than admit that they were wrong. That is why they are not reporting any good news out of Iraq. They are hoping for a massive terrorist bombing, or more troop casualties to report. You want us to pull out and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Too bad that instead of celebrating with the rest of us, you will be sucking sour grapes. Edited June 2, 2008 by Trimdingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 To think that the Arabs are too stupid to have a democracy work is just pure racism. People said much the same things about Northern Ireland back in the 70's. They said the same thing about Japan in 1946. Nancy Pelosi is so invested in the US losing that she will claim we were defeated no matter what the outcome. Regardless of who gets elected, the troops will be there until there is a viable local force to hand over the country to. There will be no cut and run, despite the hopes of many. You can arrive in hurry, but it takes time to pack up to leave. If you doubt this, then try to imagine the US making a retreat under fire, how popular would that be? History will probably see the war as lasting three days, the occupation going on now will be seen as a brief period of national reconciliation in Iraq. The Iraqis will decide that that they can get along with each other about as well as they did before the war, and Al Queda will be blamed for fanning the flames of unrest. The extraordinary price of oil will focus the leadership of the country to such a degree that they will not tolerate anything that slows the flow of oil and money. Once the money starts to flow ans the economy in Iraq takes off, all of the confrontations will end. As a matter of fact, money will cure what ails them. The Mullahs will continue to demonize the west as long as they need to provide an external reason for the failure of the culture. Israel will continue to be the most visible target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSOLVER Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 As we face global economic recession I came across a pretty stunning look at a part of humanity most of us here know little about. commonground on "Who Speaks for Islam, What a Billion Muslims Really Think "Who Speaks for Islam? What a Billion Muslims Really Think is based on six years of research and more than 50,000 interviews representing 1.3 billion Muslims who reside in more than 35 nations that are predominantly Muslim or have sizable Muslim populations. Representing more than 90% of the world's Muslim community, this poll is the largest, most comprehensive study of its kind. The results defy conventional wisdom and the inevitability of a global conflict – even as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan continue." I recommend this one to any and all(libraries are cool), and hope you will form your own opinion as to what this means to you and yours. I know I changed some thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Our monthly combat losses in Iraq for May were pretty close to the normal non-combat fatality rate for the military in general. Yep. Definitely sounds like we're losing. As hard as everyone on the left keeps trying to paint this war as another Vietnam, it gets harder and harder for them every day. If you people had any idea what you are talking about you might be able to make some sense. So tell me, how many more US soldiers should have their lives ended for the sadistic neo-cons little experiment? How much money do the contractors have to steal from our wallets while US soldiers die for nothing before they can come home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Things seem to be stabilizing. We need to have a presence over there. We need to protect that oil. The American way of life is a lot better than what Muslims are used to. I am sure that a great many of them, after they get past that rigid religious nonsense, will welcome it. It is not really the "American" way. It is being free to live the way you want. I personally don't like religion. Some people do. That is their right. They should also have the right to take it or leave it without punishment by the government. Christianity is just as bad as Islam. The difference over here is that it isn't the law. When it was the law, they burned people at the stake. Liberal media want us to lose the war. They would rather have us lose than admit that they were wrong. That is why they are not reporting any good news out of Iraq. They are hoping for a massive terrorist bombing, or more troop casualties to report. You want us to pull out and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Too bad that instead of celebrating with the rest of us, you will be sucking sour grapes. Just shut up already, all you're doing is further proving what an absolute moron you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 If you people had any idea what you are talking about you might be able to make some sense. So tell me, how many more US soldiers should have their lives ended for the sadistic neo-cons little experiment? How much money do the contractors have to steal from our wallets while US soldiers die for nothing before they can come home? Using words like "neo-con experiment" and talking about soldiers dying does nothing to make your position seem any more valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Using words like "neo-con experiment" and talking about soldiers dying does nothing to make your position seem any more valid. I don't understand how people can even consider leaving before the job is done. I wasn't in favour of the war when it started, but that doesn't matter, because it did start. The US can't just pack up and go home. McCain has the right idea and many people don't like to hear it (and if I lived in the US, I would not be a Republican, but I agree with him here). It doesn't matter if it takes 1000 years, you stay until its done. You get those people a democracy, and make their country a model for others to follow. The same goes with Afghanistan. I am ashamed that our government is bowing to political pressure and promising to back out by the end of 2011. We should stay until the job is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Well, the big next hurdle in Iraq is to see how the next provincial elections go this Fall. If they go well, General Petreaus said he would consider lowering troop levels beginning as early as November. Amazing how that announcement failed to stick with the media. Instead, they want to keep pounding the drum saying that we will be in Iraq forever, despite recent hints quite to the contrary. Petreaus says we will leave when the job is done. If politics forces us out before then, we WILL fail. Not because the invasion was flawed or the occupation was flawed or our military is flawed, but because public opinion is flawed. Elections, LOL. Some of these places used to have real elections and forms of democracy until we got involved. Iran used to be a democracy until we helped a great murderer take over, and you thought Saddam was bad. I think it was 1953 and if you look back that was an elected government we helped overthrow with one that was not high in the opinion polls. Then you wonder why they don't like us. Pakistan used to have an elected government until we helped a military dictator overthrow it. What was Musharrif's approval rating???? 8%, just below Bushco? They must love us for that one. Question is are we that stupid??????? We say we want one thing but do another. You guys then say they hate us because we are free, well damn, if I was free and then you took that away from me I would hate you to. OUR FOREIGN POLICY IS FLAWED!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Elections, LOL. Some of these places used to have real elections and forms of democracy until we got involved. Iran used to be a democracy until we helped a great murderer take over, and you thought Saddam was bad. I think it was 1953 and if you look back that was an elected government we helped overthrow with one that was not high in the opinion polls. Then you wonder why they don't like us. Pakistan used to have an elected government until we helped a military dictator overthrow it. What was Musharrif's approval rating???? 8%, just below Bushco? They must love us for that one. Question is are we that stupid??????? We say we want one thing but do another. You guys then say they hate us because we are free, well damn, if I was free and then you took that away from me I would hate you to. OUR FOREIGN POLICY IS FLAWED!!! Okay....so what solutions to our flawed foreign policy do you offer up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Okay....so what solutions to our flawed foreign policy do you offer up? Quit intervening in other soverign nations affairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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