Why is the Media Silent on the War in Iraq?

[NickF1011]

Quit intervening in other soverign nations affairs.

 

That worked out great prior to both World Wars.

[fmccap]

That worked out great prior to both World Wars.

That is a different history. Unless of course you could provide me with sililarities among them with our current problems.

[Trimdingman]

Just shut up already, all you're doing is further proving what an absolute moron you are.

 

If that is true, why do you want me to shut up? You should want me to rant on and on because then I would be discrediting my side of the discussion. The fact that you do not want me to speak tells me something else.

 

The freedoms that we enjoy did not just naturally come to us. They were fought for by our ancestors, and are still being fought for to-day. I don't hear these patriots complaining. If they were sheep, like you, then to-day we would be living under some despot without any freedom.

 

Americans are for the most part a different breed. When 9/11 happened, they instinctively wanted payback. A few became filled with fear and instinctively were looking for a rock to hide under. Some, whose hearts are still elsewhere else, looked at 9/11 with smug satisfaction. Which are you, Blueblood? For sure, you are not red white and blue.

[NickF1011]

That is a different history. Unless of course you could provide me with sililarities among them with our current problems.

 

Let's see....

 

Government provoking its neighbors? Check.

 

Government with past history of invading its neighbors? Check.

 

Global political climate that allows government to ignore/avoid international sanctions/mandates? Check.

 

The table was set. Nothing may have been imminent, but it was the same song and dance.

 

Now we have Iran constantly proclaiming they will wipe Israel from the map. Iraq could become a very effective buffer to prevent that from ever happening.

[the_spaniard]

As we face global economic recession I came across a pretty stunning look at a part of humanity most of us here know little about.

 

 

commonground on "Who Speaks for Islam, What a Billion Muslims Really Think

 

"Who Speaks for Islam? What a Billion Muslims Really Think is based on six years of research and more than 50,000 interviews representing 1.3 billion Muslims who reside in more than 35 nations that are predominantly Muslim or have sizable Muslim populations. Representing more than 90% of the world's Muslim community, this poll is the largest, most comprehensive study of its kind. The results defy conventional wisdom and the inevitability of a global conflict – even as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan continue."

 

I recommend this one to any and all(libraries are cool), and hope you will form your own opinion as to what this means to you and yours. I know I changed some thinking.

 

Interesting reading, though I've read similar articles before. I have nothing against Muslim people, or any religion (yeah even Scientologists), and I would hope that one day, they can unite as a people to get the life they want and deserve - not our version of what we think they want. I'm just fairly certain a mostly Christian occupying army isn't going to be the thing that delivers that.

 

"after they get past that rigid religious nonsense" - Wow. Just wow. As a country, the U.S. can't even get past our rigid religious issues with a Bible-waving president that will likely go down as the worst in the last 30+ years. (Not because of his religious beliefs mind you, but he's hardly been an advocate of the separation of religion from politics)

 

Even in a strong democratic environment they will always be devout Muslims, as they always should be. It IS the second largest religion in the world.

[fmccap]

Let's see....

 

Government provoking its neighbors? Check.

 

Government with past history of invading its neighbors? Check.

 

Global political climate that allows government to ignore/avoid international sanctions/mandates? Check.

 

The table was set. Nothing may have been imminent, but it was the same song and dance.

 

Now we have Iran constantly proclaiming they will wipe Israel from the map. Iraq could become a very effective buffer to prevent that from ever happening.

What country are you reffering to?

[NickF1011]

What country are you reffering to?

 

You can't figure it out?

[fmccap]

You can't figure it out?

With both of them you are wrong. I was just wondering which one to answer you on.

[NickF1011]

With both of them you are wrong. I was just wondering which one to answer you on.

 

Well, I don't think anyone can reasonably say we had no right to invade Afghanistan. So, go ahead and defend your position on Iraq.

[hemisbc]

nickf1011>>>>>>>""""""""If politics forces us out before then, we WILL fail. Not because the invasion was flawed or the occupation was flawed or our military is flawed, but because public opinion is flawed."""""""

 

AMEN, absolutely right; just be glad we do not have to win WW-2 again. I can recall the bombing of Pearl Harbor and how EVERYONE joined behind the president and military to do a much needed job.

 

I sometimes try to think of the incident that started the downfall of morality in this great country and I think of things like the "Chicago Seven" at a Democrat Convention or the incident at Kent State.

 

No doubt 9/11 was the worse day in the history of this country and many want to blame the U.S. for it.

[Blueblood]

I don't understand how people can even consider leaving before the job is done.

 

Excuse me? You need to go educate yourself before commenting on this subject.

 

The stated intention of invading Iraq was to stop Saddam Hussein from using his non-existant arsenal of WMD's on us, the BA said.

 

Saaddam is dead

His sons are dead

The Baath party is history

There were no WMD's

There were no ties to Al-Qaeda

 

We invaded a country we shouldn't have, and US soldiers are dying everyday for nothing other than to keep the profits pumping for corporations like Halliburton and Blackwater.

 

What on Earth do you think we need to "finish" there? The job we supposedly went in to do

didn't even exist, we need to get the fuck out of there ASAP.

 

Start thinking for yourself instead of typing up some BS you heard on the nightly news.

 

I don't know how people can be so unbelievably ill-informed on this, especially after over 5 years of being there. This is ridiculous. WW2 didn't last this long.

 

 

I wasn't in favour of the war when it started, but that doesn't matter, because it did start.

 

What matters is that it was started on a huge pack of lies, is illegal under international law, was totally un-necessary, and is bankrupting my country, killing and maiming hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's, and killing thousands of our best soldiers in vain.

 

And you want to continue this madness? That's the height of insanity.

 

 

The US can't just pack up and go home.

 

LOL..

 

Yes we can, stop watching the propagandists of Fox news, what is stopping us from leaving? Nothing at all, understand that? You simply leave, that's how you do it.

 

 

 

McCain has the right idea and many people don't like to hear it (and if I lived in the US, I would not be a Republican, but I agree with him here).

 

Wrong again, McCain is a lifetime politician/corporate lobbyist, he wants to keep the US military there for 100 years, in the Middle East. You obviously don't know anything about their culture, or about the history there otherwise you wouldn't say such ridiculous things. What on Earth do you think we need to stay there for? To ratchet up the body count? Unreal..

 

 

It doesn't matter if it takes 1000 years, you stay until its done.

 

Good God, you need to stay in school, you don't even know what the "job" is.

 

We invaded another non-threatening nation illegally, when you're stabbing someone in the back you don't keep doing it because you've already got blood on your hands, the sooner you stop stabbing the person the better.

 

Now please don't annoy me with talking points you picked up from propagandists anymore.

 

 

You get those people a democracy, and make their country a model for others to follow.

 

LOL, Democracy, at the barrel of a gun!! You're just parroting BS, you sound like a white house press release.

 

 

The same goes with Afghanistan. I am ashamed that our government is bowing to political pressure and promising to back out by the end of 2011. We should stay until the job is done.

 

Afghanistan is a different deal, you do realize 2011 is a full decade after 9-11 right? Maybe if you knew how the US military was pulled off the trail of OBL to invade Iraq you'd think different, but then I've seen no sign of free thought from you. How long do soldiers have to die for the fuck ups and corruption of politicians?

 

But every 18 year old thinks they know everything, you've got it all figured out!

[Blueblood]

Using words like "neo-con experiment" and talking about soldiers dying does nothing to make your position seem any more valid.

 

 

It's a fact that influential neo-cons pushed this war as part of their "New American century".

 

And everyday I hear about more US soldiers dying for nothing, get them the hell out of there.

[Blueblood]

Elections, LOL. Some of these places used to have real elections and forms of democracy until we got involved. Iran used to be a democracy until we helped a great murderer take over, and you thought Saddam was bad. I think it was 1953 and if you look back that was an elected government we helped overthrow with one that was not high in the opinion polls. Then you wonder why they don't like us.

 

Pakistan used to have an elected government until we helped a military dictator overthrow it. What was Musharrif's approval rating???? 8%, just below Bushco? They must love us for that one.

 

Question is are we that stupid??????? We say we want one thing but do another. You guys then say they hate us because we are free, well damn, if I was free and then you took that away from me I would hate you to.

 

OUR FOREIGN POLICY IS FLAWED!!!

 

The problem is most people know little to nothing of our history there, and have their opinions shaped for them by high paid propagandists. As has been recently revealed that most of the so-called "expert generals" paraded around the 24 hour "news" channels were retired and working for contractors making hundreds of millions off the jobs our military used to do at prices which didn't bankrupt the nation. We have war profiteers going on tv doling out the talking points, and people eat it up.

[NickF1011]

It's a fact that influential neo-cons pushed this war as part of their "New American century".

 

And everyday I hear about more US soldiers dying for nothing, get them the hell out of there.

 

What got us there is beside the point entirely. Fact is, we are there. Since we are, we should listen to the MILITARY, as they surely know the situation better than you or I or any "analyst" on TV. The MILITARY is advising not to pull out immediately. The MILITARY has also suggested troop drawdowns could begin as early as November of THIS year.

[Blueblood]

If that is true, why do you want me to shut up? You should want me to rant on and on because then I would be discrediting my side of the discussion. The fact that you do not want me to speak tells me something else.

 

 

You don't know the facts, or care about truth, that is obvious, I'm sick of hearing the same old tired out BS that we've been hearing for over 5 years now.

 

The freedoms that we enjoy did not just naturally come to us. They were fought for by our ancestors, and are still being fought for to-day.

 

And are being taken away today by politicians, terrorists can kill us, but they cannot take away our freedoms, Osama Bin Laden cannot give us the Constitution shredding Patriot act, our government gave us that.

 

Nobody in Iraq was trying, or could have taken away our freedoms.

 

 

I don't hear these patriots complaining.

 

Well you're ignorant of just about everything, and you probably watch nothing but the propaganda on Fox news, so that's no surprise.

 

Try informing yourself, the guys over in Iraq depend on an informed populace so that they aren't sent to die for no reason again by crooked politicians.

 

 

Listen to what they are actually saying.

 

 

If they were sheep, like you, then to-day we would be living under some despot without any freedom.

 

 

LOL! That's hilarious, a far right fringe extremist like you calling me a Sheep, as you prattle out nothing but talking points drilled into your skull by crooks making shitloads of money off this war. I bet you were one of those people who cowered in fear over Iraq's "WMD's"..

 

Americans are for the most part a different breed. When 9/11 happened, they instinctively wanted payback.

 

Yea, and we didn't want the idiot in chief to attack the wrong country.

 

A few became filled with fear and instinctively were looking for a rock to hide under.

 

 

Yes, right wing loonies like you, which explains why you were afraid of little old Iraq.

 

Some, whose hearts are still elsewhere else, looked at 9/11 with smug satisfaction.

 

Corporations like Blackwater, Halliburton, Bechtel, and the Bush administration benefitted more than anybody from 9-11, it's what gave them the excuse to funnel our tax money into their pockets through needless wars that had nothing to do with 9-11. But they new they could go on tv and lie, and convince the stupid people (you), that it was necessary. The intelligent people who suppotred the war in the beginning changed their minds after seeing they were lied to and what a disaster the wrteched neo-cons made of the entire thing.

 

Which are you, Blueblood? For sure, you are not red white and blue.

 

 

I'm informed, and I have the facts on my side, you have nothing but slogans, appeals to false patriotism, and Orwellian mumbo jumbo. You'd be wise to re-think your worldview and start educating yourself with real, factual information.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6OzILCSRys

 

Is that you in the video? Waving the flag that he doesn't even know what it stands for?

[suv_guy_19]

What got us there is beside the point entirely. Fact is, we are there. Since we are, we should listen to the MILITARY, as they surely know the situation better than you or I or any "analyst" on TV. The MILITARY is advising not to pull out immediately. The MILITARY has also suggested troop drawdowns could begin as early as November of THIS year.

 

 

I'll just used his own trick on him. He's too blinded by the lefty blogs on the internet to even have a free thought. The military couldn't possibly know what they're doing so I don't know why you would even suggest such a thing....:rolleyes:

[Blueblood]

Let's see....

 

Government provoking its neighbors? Check.

 

Government with past history of invading its neighbors? Check.

 

Global political climate that allows government to ignore/avoid international sanctions/mandates? Check.

 

 

Sounds like the United States. Except we stick it to people in far off lands..

 

The table was set. Nothing may have been imminent, but it was the same song and dance.

 

Now we have Iran constantly proclaiming they will wipe Israel from the map. Iraq could become a very effective buffer to prevent that from ever happening.

 

What a horrible comparison, and Iran didn't do anything of the sort, you're basing this off a improperly translated speech by Iran's big talking president who doesn't even hold the real power over the country.

 

If we had never took out Iran's leader in 53 they could be our good friend right now, and all people want to do is to continue the very policies that led up to the current clusterfuck, and ignore countries we should be pressuring like Saudi Arabia, oh but they are our friends, so they don't matter.

[Blueblood]

nickf1011>>>>>>>""""""""If politics forces us out before then, we WILL fail. Not because the invasion was flawed or the occupation was flawed or our military is flawed, but because public opinion is flawed."""""""

 

AMEN, absolutely right; just be glad we do not have to win WW-2 again. I can recall the bombing of Pearl Harbor and how EVERYONE joined behind the president and military to do a much needed job.

 

I sometimes try to think of the incident that started the downfall of morality in this great country and I think of things like the "Chicago Seven" at a Democrat Convention or the incident at Kent State.

 

No doubt 9/11 was the worse day in the history of this country and many want to blame the U.S. for it.

 

 

What exactly are you saying? Let's have some hard facts here...

[Blueblood]

What got us there is beside the point entirely. Fact is, we are there. Since we are, we should listen to the MILITARY, as they surely know the situation better than you or I or any "analyst" on TV. The MILITARY is advising not to pull out immediately. The MILITARY has also suggested troop drawdowns could begin as early as November of THIS year.

 

The military doesn't set policy, and most of the guys I've heard from that are there want the hell out.

 

These so-called experts from the military all over tv have turned out to be propagandists who work for defense contractors, which is a huge conflict of interest, and another huge scandal that has been ignored by the media.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/washingt...amp;oref=slogin

 

Sometimes you feel like you're living in another country..

[Blueblood]

I'll just used his own trick on him. He's too blinded by the lefty blogs on the internet to even have a free thought.

 

You can't even be bothered to reply to my post, you just continue giving examples of how little you actually know.

 

I've got facts on my side because I care about the truth, I don't like being lied to, you've got what exactly besides a bunch of BS?

 

The military couldn't possibly know what they're doing so I don't know why you would even suggest such a thing.... :rolleyes:

 

The military knows what it is doing, if only you had a tenth of their knowledge.

[NickF1011]

The military doesn't set policy, and most of the guys I've heard from that are there want the hell out.

 

These so-called experts from the military all over tv have turned out to be propagandists who work for defense contractors, which is a huge conflict of interest, and another huge scandal that has been ignored by the media.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/washingt...amp;oref=slogin

 

Sometimes you feel like you're living in another country..

 

You're right. The military doesn't set policy. Politicians do, unfortunately in some cases. However, the politicians should base their policy on what military leaders are saying. What are they saying? DON'T CUT AND RUN. I'm not talking about the ridiculous paid retired "analysts". I'm talking about those with current U.S. military commissions that are in the theatre of battle.

 

Funny you should mention "most of the guys I've heard from". Does anyone want to be stationed in a war zone? Of course not! Do you think the men storming Normandy or Iwo Jima would have told you "Man, I'm sure glad I was there"? Hell no. War sucks. But the majority of people I've talked to who have been there are still against pulling out before the job is done.

[Trimdingman]

You don't know the facts, or care about truth, that is obvious, I'm sick of hearing the same old tired out BS that we've been hearing for over 5 years now.

 

 

 

And are being taken away today by politicians, terrorists can kill us, but they cannot take away our freedoms, Osama Bin Laden cannot give us the Constitution shredding Patriot act, our government gave us that.

 

Nobody in Iraq was trying, or could have taken away our freedoms.

 

 

 

 

Well you're ignorant of just about everything, and you probably watch nothing but the propaganda on Fox news, so that's no surprise.

 

Try informing yourself, the guys over in Iraq depend on an informed populace so that they aren't sent to die for no reason again by crooked politicians.

 

 

Listen to what they are actually saying.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL! That's hilarious, a far right fringe extremist like you calling me a Sheep, as you prattle out nothing but talking points drilled into your skull by crooks making shitloads of money off this war. I bet you were one of those people who cowered in fear over Iraq's "WMD's"..

 

 

 

Yea, and we didn't want the idiot in chief to attack the wrong country.

 

 

 

 

Yes, right wing loonies like you, which explains why you were afraid of little old Iraq.

 

 

 

Corporations like Blackwater, Halliburton, Bechtel, and the Bush administration benefitted more than anybody from 9-11, it's what gave them the excuse to funnel our tax money into their pockets through needless wars that had nothing to do with 9-11. But they new they could go on tv and lie, and convince the stupid people (you), that it was necessary. The intelligent people who suppotred the war in the beginning changed their minds after seeing they were lied to and what a disaster the wrteched neo-cons made of the entire thing.

 

 

 

 

I'm informed, and I have the facts on my side, you have nothing but slogans, appeals to false patriotism, and Orwellian mumbo jumbo. You'd be wise to re-think your worldview and start educating yourself with real, factual information.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6OzILCSRys

 

Is that you in the video? Waving the flag that he doesn't even know what it stands for?

 

 

Ok, Mr. Military Genius, who should decide which wars we should fight? You should give the president your phone number just in case he has doubts about the advice he recieves from the generals in the Pentagon. 9/11 presented the Pentagon with a situation. The president went to them for advice. They suggested the best way to proceed using their expertise. I am sure that the president is mostly following their advice as he is not a military genius, himself, like some of his predecessors were. Much to the dismay of the "peace at any price", "faint at the sight of blood", appeasement lot, we are doing a lot of good over there. Just ask the Iraqi people. If you are worried that some people will be killed, don't look now but our whole civilization sits atop a huge pile of dead bodies. Millions have died in the past so that we could be here. If you are unable to reconcile that fact, then I don't have any suggestions for you. Maybe you would feel more comfortable living in a dictatorship in which the people refused to fight.

[suv_guy_19]

You can't even be bothered to reply to my post, you just continue giving examples of how little you actually know.

 

I've got facts on my side because I care about the truth, I don't like being lied to, you've got what exactly besides a bunch of BS?

 

 

 

The military knows what it is doing, if only you had a tenth of their knowledge.

 

 

Your posts are angry and one sided. Thats what happens when you go to far to either the left or the right. You become and idealog. There's no use in responding.

[methos]

You're right. The military doesn't set policy. Politicians do, unfortunately in some cases. However, the politicians should base their policy on what military leaders are saying. What are they saying? DON'T CUT AND RUN. I'm not talking about the ridiculous paid retired "analysts". I'm talking about those with current U.S. military commissions that are in the theatre of battle.

 

Funny you should mention "most of the guys I've heard from". Does anyone want to be stationed in a war zone? Of course not! Do you think the men storming Normandy or Iwo Jima would have told you "Man, I'm sure glad I was there"? Hell no. War sucks. But the majority of people I've talked to who have been there are still against pulling out before the job is done.

 

According to the politicians, commissions, and even the military themselves, there are no military solutions in Iraq, so why in god’s name should our politicians defer to the military in policy in Iraq? I mean is there any military leader that you can cite that states otherwise. Of course not, for there is no military solutions in Iraq.

 

We could go to Sudan, Burma, or countless other countries where there is war and/or devastation and the troops would feel the same. There would be progress, but in the end, the country would likely splinter and groups would align against us; however, due to losses and suffering, and a sense of investment and not wanting to “cut and run”. It would be difficult to do so. The troops would not want to leave. It’s hard to see people suffering and the devastation and then just leave. It’s difficult to think critically and look at the big picture. The real problem is education, or lack thereof.

 

It takes an International effort so as not to stir nationalist sentiments and a massive force, which would be required for the long haul.

 

There are no solutions in Iraq, at least none that we can instill. It’s up to the Iraqi’s to come together, and that’s out of our hands. In fact, we have only made the situation worse. There was no Al Qaeda before we arrived, and Iraq was a counter balance to Iran, now, it’s aligning with them and there is little we can do except impose another Sunni dictator. The war has alienated the world against us and has been a rallying cry for the extremists. We have done far more harm than good. It’s not my opinion, but the opinion of every reasoned paper or article that I have read, including from former military commanders.

 

The dollar has tanked, and our economy is on the brink. We invest in their economy, and ignore ours. We don’t need terrorist’s to take this country down. We seem to be doing the job ourselves.

[methos]

Ok, Mr. Military Genius, who should decide which wars we should fight? You should give the president your phone number just in case he has doubts about the advice he recieves from the generals in the Pentagon. 9/11 presented the Pentagon with a situation. The president went to them for advice. They suggested the best way to proceed using their expertise. I am sure that the president is mostly following their advice as he is not a military genius, himself, like some of his predecessors were. Much to the dismay of the "peace at any price", "faint at the sight of blood", appeasement lot, we are doing a lot of good over there. Just ask the Iraqi people. If you are worried that some people will be killed, don't look now but our whole civilization sits atop a huge pile of dead bodies. Millions have died in the past so that we could be here. If you are unable to reconcile that fact, then I don't have any suggestions for you. Maybe you would feel more comfortable living in a dictatorship in which the people refused to fight.

 

 

All I can say is that thank God you are Canadian. We already have enough ballast holding us down, and Canada seems to be better off than us, so they can afford to carry you.

 

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and the Generals had nothing to do with fomenting an attack on Iraq. In fact, it was quite the contrary from all accounts that I have read. The terrorists were in Afghanistan, NOT Iraq. We disengaged them, and subsequently allowed them to rebuild and attacked another country that had NOTHING to do with it. All because this administration lied and deceived the public into believing otherwise.

 

Iraq is a lost cause for two reasons:

 

1) Culture - you cannot rally a people who believes there fate is not in their hands. For many, they say "Gods will" dozens of times each day. Before a people can form a democratic union, there has to be accountability or a sense that their fate is in their hands and without that there never will be.

 

I am not being ethnocentric, in fact, I think our educational levels are at question, for we allowed this to happen. Fully two-thirds of our country believed Iraq had something to do with 9-11 for quite some time. When in FACT, they had nothing to do with it.

 

2) Ignorance - The populace has to be somewhat educated to form a democracy. Without it, they will always succumb to the greedy and the megalomaniac’s.

 

Sure, we can pacify the country with overwhelming force, but as soon as you leave, next year or the next decade, there will be either chaos and/or a dictator will emerge, likely both. It's not speculation; it's just the way it is.

Edited June 5, 2008 by methos