best thing to do

[sickofthebs]

we are being looked at as the piece of shit that is destroying the auto industry,,60 percent of idiot americans are against any bailout not reliezing what will really happen if we file for chapter 11,so here you go,,gettlefinger,,get your greddy hands off the stike fund and send everyone of us to washington,,gas money or plane rides will do fine,,we will never go on strike again or it would be a public relations nightmare and you no this you coward,,alot of people are saying you stud up for us but in reality you did nothing but look like a hillbilly from alabama,spurting off stupid shit like,,well we can only send 5000 cars to other nations while they get to send 100000 to us,,be it may be true do you really think a republican run congress at this time gives a fuck,,and when you did have the chance to respond to the good guys and get things out at that time like when the guy from penn said good things of us and the guy from ohio said good things of us and the list goes on.further more about ohio,,when that man asked if the jobs would stay there or when any of them said will the money stay here you let the 3 idiot ceos dodge the question,,you should have seized the moment and said thanks to a free labor agreement we can put that into the national to help keep it here,,,oh wait you will just open it back up again so never mind that..point being you could have done alot more then look like a stump on a log.now to us real uaw,,shove everything down the medias throat,,if you pick up a pile of dog shit or a cig butt of the ground so a child wont step on it,,email and call your local news.pretty much stop being a bunch of i dont cares,,this goes for the whole uaw,,gm ford and chry,,we all have time off with down time and what not,,take your ass to washington,,if the african americans can get a million man march,,we can get a middle class multi million march,,all the people who will be affected should do this,,i will .and to all you fucks on here who are going to say you spelled this wrong or didnt use proper grammer here or you didnt complete a sent there,,,shove it up your ass.and fuck anyone who owns a toyota honda or nissan or kia or anything else the big 3 didnt make,now is the time to stand up for one another or we wont be standing at all,,i hope everyone gets the point here.

[dirtyred2]

we are being looked at as the piece of shit that is destroying the auto industry,,60 percent of idiot americans are against any bailout not reliezing what will really happen if we file for chapter 11,so here you go,,gettlefinger,,get your greddy hands off the stike fund and send everyone of us to washington,,gas money or plane rides will do fine,,we will never go on strike again or it would be a public relations nightmare and you no this you coward,,alot of people are saying you stud up for us but in reality you did nothing but look like a hillbilly from alabama,spurting off stupid shit like,,well we can only send 5000 cars to other nations while they get to send 100000 to us,,be it may be true do you really think a republican run congress at this time gives a fuck,,and when you did have the chance to respond to the good guys and get things out at that time like when the guy from penn said good things of us and the guy from ohio said good things of us and the list goes on.further more about ohio,,when that man asked if the jobs would stay there or when any of them said will the money stay here you let the 3 idiot ceos dodge the question,,you should have seized the moment and said thanks to a free labor agreement we can put that into the national to help keep it here,,,oh wait you will just open it back up again so never mind that..point being you could have done alot more then look like a stump on a log.now to us real uaw,,shove everything down the medias throat,,if you pick up a pile of dog shit or a cig butt of the ground so a child wont step on it,,email and call your local news.pretty much stop being a bunch of i dont cares,,this goes for the whole uaw,,gm ford and chry,,we all have time off with down time and what not,,take your ass to washington,,if the african americans can get a million man march,,we can get a middle class multi million march,,all the people who will be affected should do this,,i will .and to all you fucks on here who are going to say you spelled this wrong or didnt use proper grammer here or you didnt complete a sent there,,,shove it up your ass.and fuck anyone who owns a toyota honda or nissan or kia or anything else the big 3 didnt make,now is the time to stand up for one another or we wont be standing at all,,i hope everyone gets the point here.

 

good luck buddy

[megirldeth]

good luck buddy

If only people would stand up......but we all know better

[TBodette68]

we are being looked at as the piece of shit that is destroying the auto industry,,60 percent of idiot americans are against any bailout not reliezing what will really happen if we file for chapter 11,so here you go,,gettlefinger,,get your greddy hands off the stike fund and send everyone of us to washington,,gas money or plane rides will do fine,,we will never go on strike again or it would be a public relations nightmare and you no this you coward,,alot of people are saying you stud up for us but in reality you did nothing but look like a hillbilly from alabama,spurting off stupid shit like,,well we can only send 5000 cars to other nations while they get to send 100000 to us,,be it may be true do you really think a republican run congress at this time gives a fuck,,and when you did have the chance to respond to the good guys and get things out at that time like when the guy from penn said good things of us and the guy from ohio said good things of us and the list goes on.further more about ohio,,when that man asked if the jobs would stay there or when any of them said will the money stay here you let the 3 idiot ceos dodge the question,,you should have seized the moment and said thanks to a free labor agreement we can put that into the national to help keep it here,,,oh wait you will just open it back up again so never mind that..point being you could have done alot more then look like a stump on a log.now to us real uaw,,shove everything down the medias throat,,if you pick up a pile of dog shit or a cig butt of the ground so a child wont step on it,,email and call your local news.pretty much stop being a bunch of i dont cares,,this goes for the whole uaw,,gm ford and chry,,we all have time off with down time and what not,,take your ass to washington,,if the african americans can get a million man march,,we can get a middle class multi million march,,all the people who will be affected should do this,,i will .and to all you fucks on here who are going to say you spelled this wrong or didnt use proper grammer here or you didnt complete a sent there,,,shove it up your ass.and fuck anyone who owns a toyota honda or nissan or kia or anything else the big 3 didnt make,now is the time to stand up for one another or we wont be standing at all,,i hope everyone gets the point here.

 

 

This is the kind of half witted rant we don't need. If you can't say how you feel without sounding like a moron..Please stay off here..

[Bigcountry]

Best thing we can do..........VOTE NO!

[Hobbitt]

Best thing we can do..........VOTE NO!

:happy feet:

[bleu]

This guy has to be a company plant. Noone can possibly be that uneducated. They are trying to make uaw members look like idiots. But they made this guy sound like an idiot savant. Hukt on fahnix werkt 4 me.

[iluvnascar]

If anyone needs to understand why the Big 3 are in trouble.....one only needs to look at the rant that started this thread. Or many of the other threads on this site.

 

I can't believe there are SO MANY employees in denial. The Big 3 will all go under....the only question is how soon. GM by the end of the year; Chrysler in January; and Ford a while later (sooner if Chrysler and/or GM are forced into bankruptcy).

 

The only reason that so many people (Government representatives; Talking heads; many members of the public) want bankruptcy is because they are fed up with the attitude that they perceive as representative of Big 3 employees. Intransigence, greed, and selfishness are evident everywhere because it's those vocal employees whose voices seem to be heard. Thos who want to maintain a hard line need to recognize the harsh reality that if bankruptcy is forced upon any of the companies, the contract will be torn up and replaced with whatever the experts deem appropriate and affordable. That will be far far worse than any voluntary cuts that the employees make now.

 

So people need to swallow hard and make some big concessions so that the companies survive and MOST employees survive - obviously, some will be let go.

 

As a retiree, I'd be happy to offer up a portion of my pension......it's not that I want to do it....but in my heart of hearts, I know it's necessary.

 

The Company has given me everything I have....and I'll be happy to give some back so that many others have a future. I hope that union members get the message real soon.

[dark270]

If anyone needs to understand why the Big 3 are in trouble.....one only needs to look at the rant that started this thread. Or many of the other threads on this site.

 

I can't believe there are SO MANY employees in denial. The Big 3 will all go under....the only question is how soon. GM by the end of the year; Chrysler in January; and Ford a while later (sooner if Chrysler and/or GM are forced into bankruptcy).

 

The only reason that so many people (Government representatives; Talking heads; many members of the public) want bankruptcy is because they are fed up with the attitude that they perceive as representative of Big 3 employees. Intransigence, greed, and selfishness are evident everywhere because it's those vocal employees whose voices seem to be heard. Thos who want to maintain a hard line need to recognize the harsh reality that if bankruptcy is forced upon any of the companies, the contract will be torn up and replaced with whatever the experts deem appropriate and affordable. That will be far far worse than any voluntary cuts that the employees make now.

 

So people need to swallow hard and make some big concessions so that the companies survive and MOST employees survive - obviously, some will be let go.

 

As a retiree, I'd be happy to offer up a portion of my pension......it's not that I want to do it....but in my heart of hearts, I know it's necessary.

 

The Company has given me everything I have....and I'll be happy to give some back so that many others have a future. I hope that union members get the message real soon.

 

 

in case you dont know, we have given up enough already, the past is done with(retirees bens) the future is over mortgaged(14$ a hour)

 

in some case the transplants have better wages and comparable bens. then we do !

trust me i know!

i say strike now, take em all under....are you ready ? i am....

let the economy go under. it would not matter if we worked for FREE, still would not be enough...

 

 

go ahead keep giving your pension up, then nothing will be left.

Edited December 6, 2008 by dark271

[feegsit]

I wonder what the haters attitudes would be if GM or Chrysler goes under and they get caught up in the fallout? These people don't realize that this would affect them as well!!

[iluvnascar]

"...........in some case the transplants have better wages and comparable bens. then we do !"

 

 

Then perhaps the "concession" stance ought to be.......we'll agree to the same wages, benefits, and work practices as the transplants. After all, that would sure take the wind out of the sails of those who are dead set against Government help because of the intransigence of the Union.

 

If it's OK for those guys....it ought to be OK for us guys. Now that would be alevel playing field.

[axles need love too]

we are being looked at as the piece of shit that is destroying the auto industry,,60 percent of idiot americans are against any bailout not reliezing what will really happen if we file for chapter 11,so here you go,,gettlefinger,,get your greddy hands off the stike fund and send everyone of us to washington,,gas money or plane rides will do fine,,we will never go on strike again or it would be a public relations nightmare and you no this you coward,,alot of people are saying you stud up for us but in reality you did nothing but look like a hillbilly from alabama,spurting off stupid shit like,,well we can only send 5000 cars to other nations while they get to send 100000 to us,,be it may be true do you really think a republican run congress at this time gives a fuck,,and when you did have the chance to respond to the good guys and get things out at that time like when the guy from penn said good things of us and the guy from ohio said good things of us and the list goes on.further more about ohio,,when that man asked if the jobs would stay there or when any of them said will the money stay here you let the 3 idiot ceos dodge the question,,you should have seized the moment and said thanks to a free labor agreement we can put that into the national to help keep it here,,,oh wait you will just open it back up again so never mind that..point being you could have done alot more then look like a stump on a log.now to us real uaw,,shove everything down the medias throat,,if you pick up a pile of dog shit or a cig butt of the ground so a child wont step on it,,email and call your local news.pretty much stop being a bunch of i dont cares,,this goes for the whole uaw,,gm ford and chry,,we all have time off with down time and what not,,take your ass to washington,,if the african americans can get a million man march,,we can get a middle class multi million march,,all the people who will be affected should do this,,i will .and to all you fucks on here who are going to say you spelled this wrong or didnt use proper grammer here or you didnt complete a sent there,,,shove it up your ass.and fuck anyone who owns a toyota honda or nissan or kia or anything else the big 3 didnt make,now is the time to stand up for one another or we wont be standing at all,,i hope everyone gets the point here.

I got your back, Bro. I could not have said it better myself.

Society is and has gotten dumber since the 80's. :boring: :finger:

[ReDemption]

Just for the guy or girl that said we would be on a level playing field if we agreed to lower wages and work loads.

1. Are they going to add workers to our Domestic Auto plants (they have more per plant)

2. Will the Government set them up (the Big 3) with ILC's like our foreign competetors have already?

3. Will the Government set up a 17% - 19% direct tax rebates for every vehicle shipped out of the US to other countries, such as theirs do for them?

4. Will the Government revise NAFTA so it too is an equal playing field?

5. Will your state Government give out infrastructure money for re-tooling of Domestic auto plants such as TN did for Nissan and VW? (in excess of 197 million and 30 years of tax breaks)

 

I'm sure you knew all of these things before you spoke about a level playing field, right? I'm sure you did. But we all know what will happen if we drop down to 26 an hour, Nissan, VW and all the rest will drop to 24 per hour, then what?

 

How's this, the auto workers will start setting the American standard wage for all work that requires sitting behind a computer, or desk, or in an office. How about we say how much time off such a job gets, vacation time and sick days. Hows that sound? Pretty stupid, right?

 

Domestic Auto Wokers make up 10% of the total Vehicles cost, how about you all convert your energy to finding out where the other 90% goes. Oh, but that would make sense, sorry for the suggestion. LOL

[rn4]

"...........in some case the transplants have better wages and comparable bens. then we do !"

 

 

Then perhaps the "concession" stance ought to be.......we'll agree to the same wages, benefits, and work practices as the transplants. After all, that would sure take the wind out of the sails of those who are dead set against Government help because of the intransigence of the Union.

 

If it's OK for those guys....it ought to be OK for us guys. Now that would be alevel playing field.

Won't work, the only real difference between them and us are the legacy cost.

[rn4]

As a retiree, I'd be happy to offer up a portion of my pension......it's not that I want to do it....but in my heart of hearts, I know it's necessary.

Are you crazy, your pension was part of your overall compensation for the years that you worked. I don't think that I would be inclined to give any of my pension back I already earned it.

[Back-Glass-Ass]

If anyone needs to understand why the Big 3 are in trouble.....one only needs to look at the rant that started this thread. Or many of the other threads on this site.

 

I can't believe there are SO MANY employees in denial. The Big 3 will all go under....the only question is how soon. GM by the end of the year; Chrysler in January; and Ford a while later (sooner if Chrysler and/or GM are forced into bankruptcy).

 

The only reason that so many people (Government representatives; Talking heads; many members of the public) want bankruptcy is because they are fed up with the attitude that they perceive as representative of Big 3 employees. Intransigence, greed, and selfishness are evident everywhere because it's those vocal employees whose voices seem to be heard. Thos who want to maintain a hard line need to recognize the harsh reality that if bankruptcy is forced upon any of the companies, the contract will be torn up and replaced with whatever the experts deem appropriate and affordable. That will be far far worse than any voluntary cuts that the employees make now.

 

So people need to swallow hard and make some big concessions so that the companies survive and MOST employees survive - obviously, some will be let go.

 

As a retiree, I'd be happy to offer up a portion of my pension......it's not that I want to do it....but in my heart of hearts, I know it's necessary.

 

The Company has given me everything I have....and I'll be happy to give some back so that many others have a future. I hope that union members get the message real soon.

Coming from the guy who already retired, who worked for Ford when there was no such thing as a two tiered contract, when there was no such thing as scab material/handling drivers and car drivers and inspectors working on the cars making half our wages instead of line workers who actually put the time in to attain the better jobs.

Coming from the guy who didn't have to worry about foreign competitors building factories right next to American made and worked in factories.

It is all well and easy to say we should give up what we have to help the company when you have already put your time in and got all you could out of it...Hell, make some concessions, it won't really affect you right? Sure, maybe a buck or two off your retirement, but be careful what you ask for when Ford goes under and the government decides to not pick up your pension OR your health insurance.

Shut the fuck up, move to a Florida retirement home, and continue to think just the way you are so you will fit in nicely with those hicks down south, but when you start to fall over from cancer and have no insurance, remember that you are the one who said we should make concessions.

[Hobbitt]

Just for the guy or girl that said we would be on a level playing field if we agreed to lower wages and work loads.

1. Are they going to add workers to our Domestic Auto plants (they have more per plant)

2. Will the Government set them up (the Big 3) with ILC's like our foreign competetors have already?

3. Will the Government set up a 17% - 19% direct tax rebates for every vehicle shipped out of the US to other countries, such as theirs do for them?

4. Will the Government revise NAFTA so it too is an equal playing field?

5. Will your state Government give out infrastructure money for re-tooling of Domestic auto plants such as TN did for Nissan and VW? (in excess of 197 million and 30 years of tax breaks)

 

I'm sure you knew all of these things before you spoke about a level playing field, right? I'm sure you did. But we all know what will happen if we drop down to 26 an hour, Nissan, VW and all the rest will drop to 24 per hour, then what?

 

How's this, the auto workers will start setting the American standard wage for all work that requires sitting behind a computer, or desk, or in an office. How about we say how much time off such a job gets, vacation time and sick days. Hows that sound? Pretty stupid, right?

 

Domestic Auto Wokers make up 10% of the total Vehicles cost, how about you all convert your energy to finding out where the other 90% goes. Oh, but that would make sense, sorry for the suggestion. LOL

How dare you.....do not post facts here!! They want conjecture and rants !

[dark270]

"...........in some case the transplants have better wages and comparable bens. then we do !"

 

 

Then perhaps the "concession" stance ought to be.......we'll agree to the same wages, benefits, and work practices as the transplants. After all, that would sure take the wind out of the sails of those who are dead set against Government help because of the intransigence of the Union.

 

If it's OK for those guys....it ought to be OK for us guys. Now that would be alevel playing field.

 

 

well not entirely, because they dont have a retirement system or ben. for retirees...

 

they have a 401K. but ??

[dark270]

Just for the guy or girl that said we would be on a level playing field if we agreed to lower wages and work loads.

1. Are they going to add workers to our Domestic Auto plants (they have more per plant)

2. Will the Government set them up (the Big 3) with ILC's like our foreign competetors have already?

3. Will the Government set up a 17% - 19% direct tax rebates for every vehicle shipped out of the US to other countries, such as theirs do for them?

4. Will the Government revise NAFTA so it too is an equal playing field?

5. Will your state Government give out infrastructure money for re-tooling of Domestic auto plants such as TN did for Nissan and VW? (in excess of 197 million and 30 years of tax breaks)

 

I'm sure you knew all of these things before you spoke about a level playing field, right? I'm sure you did. But we all know what will happen if we drop down to 26 an hour, Nissan, VW and all the rest will drop to 24 per hour, then what?

 

How's this, the auto workers will start setting the American standard wage for all work that requires sitting behind a computer, or desk, or in an office. How about we say how much time off such a job gets, vacation time and sick days. Hows that sound? Pretty stupid, right?

 

Domestic Auto Wokers make up 10% of the total Vehicles cost, how about you all convert your energy to finding out where the other 90% goes. Oh, but that would make sense, sorry for the suggestion. LOL

 

did you know toyota pays full time associates 32$ an hour ?

[udontkno]

The Company has given me everything I have....and I'll be happy to give some back so that many others have a future. I hope that union members get the message real soon.

 

 

You are really off on this statement. The Company gave you NOTHING, not one freaking thing. The workers in the 40's went on strike, lost their homes, got beat on and formed a union to better their lives and those that followed. The old timers in the union did this, not the ones that hired in at Ford after 1950. The crowd that we have running the UAW now is not about helping the worker, Gettlefinger showed this over the last several years but he really showed his colors when he went to DC and begged for money for the automakers. What a sapp! I would have let the CEO's beg for their businesses and then I would have said to Congress. "I speak on the behalf of all of the workers who have pensions, health care and those that currently earn a living at the auto manufacturers and suppliers. I am asking Congress to set aside X billions of dollars to insure those that depend on the pensions and health care as well as those that depend on a check from these companies and suppliers. I am asking for enough money to allow all of those that lose their job if these companies go bankrupt to be able to draw enough money to cover their bills and retraining funds."

 

I guess Ron really doesnt understand who the union represents, or maybe he does and it is not us its him and his international rep cronies.

 

Finally dont offer to give up some of your pensions. You have earned them. Over the last few years the international has been giving, giving, giving and the companies still have corporate jets that cost more to fly across the country then 1 hourly worker makes in a year. The company still gives plant managers and higher free cars to drive plus free insurance and maintence. When the company was making billions profit, they never said lets reopen the contract and give the workers extra, as a matter of fact most of the money we made them they sent overseas and bought junkyards, volvo, LR ect... They didnt even reinvest in the U.S. plants that made them the profits, Atlanta, St. Louis, St. Paul, Wixom ect....

[jm2607]

did you know toyota pays full time associates 32$ an hour ?

"full time associates" do you mean the people on the line? In that case, then yes, I want comparable pay.

[dark270]

"full time associates" do you mean the people on the line? In that case, then yes, I want comparable pay.

 

 

yes, because i am going down next week, (for two companies)

part time is alot less, and depending on job, could be as low as 22 an hour.

[ReDemption]

Ford, according to its annual report, paid $70.51 per hour in wages and benefits to workers last year. GM's annual report says its labor costs average $73.26 per hour, while Chrysler's costs average $75.86 -- all well above the average $48 hourly cost incurred by Toyota, Honda and Nissan.

What they do is total up the labor, health, and pension costs, (current workers and retired workers) then divide that by the total number of hours worked. This hourly number will inflate again wile plants, for what ever reason, are shut down. Also, they havnt removed the agreed VEBA from their books, I would assume because the are not fully paid to this fund as of yet. When this happens we will be at or near $50 per hour.

 

But even so, why would anyone question this if all 3 say that they will be viable within the next 2 years? Why wouldnt we start asking what and where does the other 90% of the total cost per vehicle go? Because labor cost is only 10% of it. Why would Ron agree to any consessions other then extending dead lines for the VEBA funs? They (the international) could even devert some of their and our capital to helping pay for the jobs bank as way of helping out the big 3 untill we are past all of this. But, I'll stress again, why would we give up anything if each their plans reflect that they will be viable within the next 2 years?

[Len_A]

This is the kind of half witted rant we don't need. If you can't say how you feel without sounding like a moron..Please stay off here..

No kidding. I really love the part about the "Republican run Congress". Does this rocket scientist realize the Democrats have had a slim majority on Congress for two years?

[Len_A]

Ford, according to its annual report, paid $70.51 per hour in wages and benefits to workers last year. GM's annual report says its labor costs average $73.26 per hour, while Chrysler's costs average $75.86 -- all well above the average $48 hourly cost incurred by Toyota, Honda and Nissan.

What they do is total up the labor, health, and pension costs, (current workers and retired workers) then divide that by the total number of hours worked. This hourly number will inflate again wile plants, for what ever reason, are shut down. Also, they havnt removed the agreed VEBA from their books, I would assume because the are not fully paid to this fund as of yet. When this happens we will be at or near $50 per hour.

 

But even so, why would anyone question this if all 3 say that they will be viable within the next 2 years? Why wouldnt we start asking what and where does the other 90% of the total cost per vehicle go? Because labor cost is only 10% of it. Why would Ron agree to any consessions other then extending dead lines for the VEBA funs? They (the international) could even devert some of their and our capital to helping pay for the jobs bank as way of helping out the big 3 untill we are past all of this. But, I'll stress again, why would we give up anything if each their plans reflect that they will be viable within the next 2 years?

Ron is going to have to negotiate some concessions, in case you haven't heard, becasue that's a condition of this government loan program. That part is not negotiable.

 

From the Detroit News today

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. said automakers are going to have to quickly make changes. "If they don't meet the conditions of restructuring, there is not going to be an endless flow of money to this industry, left to their own devices and the practices they have engaged in," she said.

 

All parties are going to have to share the pain. "We call this a barbershop. Everyone is getting haircuts, in terms of the conditions. Labor has to take a haircut because of the concessions and expediting the concessions. Shareholders have to take a haircut. There has to be consideration of the relationship with dealerships, with suppliers, and the management itself has to take a big haircut on all of this."