davdog Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 This isn't a reply to anyone in particular but a statement of my perception. This , and similar, threads are like arguing with my wife--she shouts out her point of view until she runs out of breath and I try to explain my reasoning until her rate of respiration returns to normal. When she can catch her breath again she goes on as if she's heard none of my counterpoints at all. It isn't about being reasonable, it's about stubbornly reiterating an opinion until the other party simply gives up the debate. You simply cannot reason with anyone whose mind is already made up and I will not continue to do so. My issue is that the D3 cannot go out and simply hire people for what it takes to get them in the door and do the job. I know, I know, I'm rehashing. I know someone will come back with how labor only makes up 10 percent of the cost of a vehicle but who cares. The D3 have to sell their cars at market rate but they can't get their labor at market rate? WTF? If it costs them $28 or $38 an hour to get people to fill those jobs, great that’s what it costs but that needs to be determined by the market much the same as the price they can move a car for is. The only thing that soothes me on this issue is that it finally looks like the market is going to correct things. What really ticked me off is in the last contract the UAW came right out and said the jobs are worth $14 an hour. At least the uaw at GM and Chrysler had the brains to say only certain jobs were worth $14 an hour because the idiots at ford said every production job is worth $14 an hour. How do you expect people to react to this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplesituations Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 My issue is that the D3 cannot go out and simply hire people for what it takes to get them in the door and do the job. I know, I know, I'm rehashing. I know someone will come back with how labor only makes up 10 percent of the cost of a vehicle but who cares. The D3 have to sell their cars at market rate but they can't get their labor at market rate? WTF? If it costs them $28 or $38 an hour to get people to fill those jobs, great that’s what it costs but that needs to be determined by the market much the same as the price they can move a car for is. The only thing that soothes me on this issue is that it finally looks like the market is going to correct things. What really ticked me off is in the last contract the UAW came right out and said the jobs are worth $14 an hour. At least the uaw at GM and Chrysler had the brains to say only certain jobs were worth $14 an hour because the idiots at ford said every production job is worth $14 an hour. How do you expect people to react to this? you keep posting in these threads to hear only what you wanna hear and that's it and I'm not gonna reply to this anymore than what I need to, I've said my piece about this issue in past threads and it's already been said that it's 10% labor per car but YOU want the answer YOU want. YOU want the trickle down effect and cheap labor but don't seem to take into account the technology and cost that go into these cars but just look at the labor. YOU seem to not look at the trade imbalances either do YOU? Just labor and the hourly pay. The hourly pay doesn't even equal with what the rate of inflation is and took years to even get to where we are but the market doesn't bear it as YOU claim. Maybe we should have Cambodian pay according to YOU. Yea, lets get labor cheaper across the board so we can get the bottom line bigger but the only problem with that is if people were paid lower labor then they wouldn't be able to afford much. Man, that will get the economy going wouldn't it. 70,000 jobs announced to be cut in one day and even at Microsoft too. So when will it affect YOU? Oh, aren't YOU in the military??? When will that affect YOU if the pay of the military was cut?? I would be against that if that were the case but nooooooooooooooo, I have to take a pay cut to satisfy YOU. So save YOUR rhetoric for someone else, this kind of discussion leads to arguments that won't end. YOU're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change YOU're mind. This is also directed towards LSfan as well. All YOU want is what YOU want to hear. I'm done with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 you keep posting in these threads to hear only what you wanna hear and that's it and I'm not gonna reply to this anymore than what I need to, I've said my piece about this issue in past threads and it's already been said that it's 10% labor per car but YOU want the answer YOU want. YOU want the trickle down effect and cheap labor but don't seem to take into account the technology and cost that go into these cars but just look at the labor. YOU seem to not look at the trade imbalances either do YOU? Just labor and the hourly pay. The hourly pay doesn't even equal with what the rate of inflation is and took years to even get to where we are but the market doesn't bear it as YOU claim. Maybe we should have Cambodian pay according to YOU. Yea, lets get labor cheaper across the board so we can get the bottom line bigger but the only problem with that is if people were paid lower labor then they wouldn't be able to afford much. Man, that will get the economy going wouldn't it. 70,000 jobs announced to be cut in one day and even at Microsoft too.So when will it affect YOU? Oh, aren't YOU in the military??? When will that affect YOU if the pay of the military was cut?? I would be against that if that were the case but nooooooooooooooo, I have to take a pay cut to satisfy YOU. So save YOUR rhetoric for someone else, this kind of discussion leads to arguments that won't end. YOU're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change YOU're mind. This is also directed towards LSfan as well. All YOU want is what YOU want to hear. I'm done with this one. I could give a damn what ford labor makes but Ford deserves the opportunity to hire for whatever it takes to get someone to do the job. If it cost them $40 an hour to get someone in then so be it. If they don't pay enough then people won't take the job. That's how it's supposed to work. If you don't want to be cheap labor then don't take the job as it's a free country and you have choices. What world do you live in where pay scales are set up so people can afford to buy lots of stuff? What an insane statement. Maybe we should double the pay of 7/11 clerks so they can buy lots of stuff too? I was in the Air Force 20 years ago for 4 years so you must be thinking of someone else. It amazes me to think that you actually believe what you are saying. Instead of tax incentives lets just double everyone's pay, that should do the trick right? they'll be able to buy all kinds of stuff then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplesituations Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I could give a damn what ford labor makes but Ford deserves the opportunity to hire for whatever it takes to get someone to do the job. If it cost them $40 an hour to get someone in then so be it.If they don't pay enough then people won't take the job. That's how it's supposed to work. If you don't want to be cheap labor then don't take the job as it's a free country and you have choices. What world do you live in where pay scales are set up so people can afford to buy lots of stuff? What an insane statement. Maybe we should double the pay of 7/11 clerks so they can buy lots of stuff too? I was in the Air Force 20 years ago for 4 years so you must be thinking of someone else. It amazes me to think that you actually believe what you are saying. Instead of tax incentives lets just double everyone's pay, that should do the trick right? they'll be able to buy all kinds of stuff then. the same world you live in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipnzap Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 The point is; the UAW="big 3" in the public eye. Ford does happen to have a number of employees who are UAW members. I apologize profusely for not pointing this out. It is beyond bad PR; it is horrible PR, and typical double speak after promising concessions; claiming, now, for the first time that Toyota workers (after getting BONUSES) might have made more, after ignoring health costs, job banks etc., and oh by the way the federal bailout (v1) is simply breathtaking. They're not going to negotiate wages, or work rules. Bankruptcy remains the only way for these companies to survive. A "bailout" merely allows Washington politicians to meddle and throw billions of taxpayer dollars away in the process, without helping the businesses. Businesses exist to make money for stockholders Richard, deal with it. No offense, man. But that pic really gets on my nerves for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Probably because it's a picture of a vehicle no longer in production made by a company that didn't receive a loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Also the redundant "foreign import" remark in the opening sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Also the redundant "foreign import" remark in the opening sentence. Not completely redundant. Ford has "domestic imports" on their lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Not completely redundant. Ford has "domestic imports" on their lots. It's redundant unless Ohio built Accord factories and Kentucky built Camry factories needed to be bailed out. They don't. The redundancy stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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