To Our Children...

[Padre7]

Can I ask, how did spending time on the "invisible man in the sky" get us to the verge of another depression? I don't follow that logic, please explain.

 

Don't waste your time, with the pumpmaster. You need to ask yourself why would an atheist who doesn't believe in God, get so worked up over the mere mention of God, and hijack a thread about UAW concessions. After asking yourself this, you will realize that most rabid atheist are shrill, weak minded, and insecure with their beliefs. As sure as I write this though, one or more will respond by telling me "only weak people need God", blah,blah,blah.

 

Now can we return to the actual subject of this thread.

 

The original poster is dense if he thought that by accepting this agreement we sold out our children. Please tell me what leverage the IUAW had to use during negotiations? NONE.

 

If it had been voted down Ford would already be threatening to close down plants, and send their product elsewhere.

[Pumpmaster]

Don't waste your time, with the pumpmaster. You need to ask yourself why would an atheist who doesn't believe in God, get so worked up over the mere mention of God, and hijack a thread about UAW concessions. After asking yourself this, you will realize that most rabid atheist are shrill, weak minded, and insecure with their beliefs. As sure as I write this though, one or more will respond by telling me "only weak people need God", blah,blah,blah.

 

Now can we return to the actual subject of this thread.

 

The original poster is dense if he thought that by accepting this agreement we sold out our children. Please tell me what leverage the IUAW had to use during negotiations? NONE.

 

If it had been voted down Ford would already be threatening to close down plants, and send their product elsewhere.

 

 

 

:blah: :blah: :blah:

[Pumpmaster]

Can I ask, how did spending time on the "invisible man in the sky" get us to the verge of another depression? I don't follow that logic, please explain.

 

 

The auto industry is in a depression, and the world economy is teetering on the brink of a depression, too.

 

In the U.S., about 50 million legal Americans don't have health insurance, or health care. People are literally dying from untreated

cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. (and so many religious wack-o's are against abortion, calling themselves "pro-life"). Why doesn't your imaginary friend help these people?

 

One of the major expenses for the D3 automakers is healthcare. Maybe if we had single-payer healthcare, with everybody sharing the cost,

our companies wouldn't be on the verge of bankruptcy. I know, single-payer healthcare ain't gonna sell F-150's to the 700,000 people who lost their jobs last month, but it'd be a start.

 

And one thing's obvious: begging an invisible bearded sky-god to help us doesn't work; if it did, all theists would be rich!

[boatbaby]

The auto industry is in a depression, and the world economy is teetering on the brink of a depression, too.

 

In the U.S., about 50 million legal Americans don't have health insurance, or health care. People are literally dying from untreated

cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. (and so many religious wack-o's are against abortion, calling themselves "pro-life"). Why doesn't your imaginary friend help these people?

 

One of the major expenses for the D3 automakers is healthcare. Maybe if we had single-payer healthcare, with everybody sharing the cost,

our companies wouldn't be on the verge of bankruptcy. I know, single-payer healthcare ain't gonna sell F-150's to the 700,000 people who lost their jobs last month, but it'd be a start.

 

And one thing's obvious: begging an invisible bearded sky-god to help us doesn't work; if it did, all theists would be rich!

 

Okay, I understand your frustration. The whole world is falling apart. But I don't understand how having faith in God keeps people from having health insurance. I have a very good friend at Church who survived breast cancer only to turn around and get lung cancer. God doesn't keep us from being human and being suseptible to desease, he only helps us get through it by giving us hope and taking away our fear of dying. God never promised that life on earth would be easy. It all goes back to the original sin in the garden. We will all suffer, but we also know that he is there to help us through. If God made it that easy, by making sure those who place thier faith in Him would never suffer and had all the money they needed forever. Than everyone would believe in God for the wrong reasons. Everyone would easily put their faith in God. God didn't make robots, he wants us to have to make the choice. Many true Christians come to know Christ through tragedy, when they have hit rock bottom and there is nowhere else to turn, they turn to God. God doesn't do the bad things you see happening in the world, mankind does these things to themselves. God is just there to help us get through them if we ask him to. This is my belief and it does help me through the trying times. It has never prevented me from having things I need, or held me back in anyway. God Bless You

[simonsez]

Don't waste your time, with the pumpmaster. You need to ask yourself why would an atheist who doesn't believe in God, get so worked up over the mere mention of God, and hijack a thread about UAW concessions. After asking yourself this, you will realize that most rabid atheist are shrill, weak minded, and insecure with their beliefs. As sure as I write this though, one or more will respond by telling me "only weak people need God", blah,blah,blah.

 

Now can we return to the actual subject of this thread.

 

The original poster is dense if he thought that by accepting this agreement we sold out our children. Please tell me what leverage the IUAW had to use during negotiations? NONE.

 

If it had been voted down Ford would already be threatening to close down plants, and send their product elsewhere.

 

Padre- you misunderstood the original post, i was not condoning a NO vote, nor was I trying to sell a YES vote. What my concern refers to is this downward spiral we are in, even if we avoid bankruptsy, will still leave the companies in a position where our children will not have a 30$ job and the benifits that you, I ,my father, grandfather,were able to enjoy and support a family with.While CEO's were making 20-30 million a year doing what? If you think this is going to save Ford or that if GM goes into bankruptsy we wont be far behind, then i got a bridge I would like to sell you.

Edited March 11, 2009 by simonsez

[simonsez]

The last time I replied to you I was jumping on the GFY band wagon. The only excuse I could possibly offer would be buried stress. The UAW members that work for the Ford family are beyond themselfs as you know. I read your frustration tonight. Sorry

 

 

No problem brother, I understand totally

[Pulse]

No problem brother, I understand totally

 

Thanks

[Padre7]

Padre- you misunderstood the original post, i was not condoning a NO vote, nor was I trying to sell a YES vote. What my concern refers to is this downward spiral we are in, even if we avoid bankruptsy, will still leave the companies in a position where our children will not have a 30$ job and the benifits that you, I ,my father, grandfather,were able to enjoy and support a family with.While CEO's were making 20-30 million a year doing what? If you think this is going to save Ford or that if GM goes into bankruptsy we wont be far behind, then i got a bridge I would like to sell you.

 

 

I have to admit your original post is confusing. You go from attacking the Gov't to the UAW and finally it seems the banking industry (or UAW ledership?). I will agree with the comments on national debt, but Since your original post took pot shots at the IUAW, please tell me what then would you have done? Was it the Union that squandered billions in the late 90's? No it was Nasser. What foresight could the UAW had to stop that, or the current economic crises? Our union could have done squat to stop how much the CEO's were paid. Many would try to tell you that your 30$ hr job caused the demise Ford. You and I know that is not true, so please lay off the UAW leadership. You implied that our leadership has no integrity, lies, and is immoral which I believe is out of line. I still have a job after my plant was sold. I also still make the same base wage, and the same medical benefits. I cant say that for many other workers who's company closes up shop or sells off its plant.

 

I am not a negative person like yourself. I prefer to see hope on the horizon. If you choose to live in fear and dread, well have at it. My lifestyle hasn't changed one bit so far, and if Ford goes under I will still survive. I also wont be blaming the leadership of the UAW for my situation, because Ive had a good living while working for Ford thanks to the UAW.

[DetroitFanz]

Padre- you misunderstood the original post, i was not condoning a NO vote, nor was I trying to sell a YES vote. What my concern refers to is this downward spiral we are in, even if we avoid bankruptsy, will still leave the companies in a position where our children will not have a 30$ job and the benifits that you, I ,my father, grandfather,were able to enjoy and support a family with.While CEO's were making 20-30 million a year doing what? If you think this is going to save Ford or that if GM goes into bankruptsy we wont be far behind, then i got a bridge I would like to sell you.

I have 2 teenage sons. One is in college full time, the other is a junior in high school. Why would anyone want their kid to work in a factory? Why would you want your child to go through anything close to what we're going through? I'm pretty sure you can not raise a family on $14 per hour. If you're not doing everything in your power to get your kids educated and aiming for a better life than a factory rat, what are you doing? :slap:

[boatbaby]

I have 2 teenage sons. One is in college full time, the other is a junior in high school. Why would anyone want their kid to work in a factory? Why would you want your child to go through anything close to what we're going through? I'm pretty sure you can not raise a family on $14 per hour. If you're not doing everything in your power to get your kids educated and aiming for a better life than a factory rat, what are you doing? :slap:

 

The auto industry is cyclical. We went through bad times before. When the industry is strong we made very good money with great benefits. This type of job was hard to find outside of the autos. I agree, I don't like seeing anyone go through what we are going through, and it may never get back to where it was...great. It also used to be that if you were part of a union, you were part of a family. Everyone stuck together and watched each others backs. There used to be true solidarity. Those days are gone. We let the companies put that wedge in. Now it seems everyone is out for themselves. If it had been like this in Walter Reuthers' days, we would have won nothing. People would risk loosing everything, including their life for the betterment of the whole back then. Nowadays, you can't get everyone to turn down a few hours of overtime to prove a point to the company. Everyone is just in it for themselves.

Back to the original idea and off my soapbox. When things were good, it was thought to be a good job and as I said with great benefits. So people wanted this for their kids. Work 30 years, make good money and you are covered for the rest of your life. My son started just before it went down hill. Now I wish he had done something else. But for reasons I don't want to get into, there was little other choice for him at the time. But, you do have to remember that being a factory rat afforded many of us the "better life"

Edited March 12, 2009 by boatbaby

[Trimdingman]

:banghead: :banghead:

 

Hypocrite............I determined what a person needs to LEAD a peaceful life on Earth. Your free to live any way you choose. I say lead because I can not control what someone else may do to me (like the current economic crisis, for example). Historically, religion SEEMS to have caused more harm than good (please see my last post for examples). If there really is a god and this god is good, I don't believe he needs his feet or his ring kissed in order to NOT condemn me to hell. I'm certain he would be ok with us finding any way we can to get along and NOT kill, steal, or deceive each other. You act as though I'm telling you how to live, just because I stated that all we need is to respect each other's right to a peaceful, unmolested existence. YOUR absolute truth is not truth at all. It's just what you choose to believe. The TRUTH is: you don't need religion to live in this world without hurting anybody else. You DO need a sense of right and wrong. You get that just like you obtain any other knowledge. Like making money, building credit, establishing relationships. Jesus Christ need not be involved. You keep trying to start a fight over YOUR GOD DAMNED religion, when all anyone has said is that if the decision makers had a sense of right and wrong, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. I would bet my last dollar that the majority of the hypocrites that led us down this road are church goers and believers in some form of religion. Most likely, christianity. Again, you reply to a post by stripping everything out of the dialogue that you can not argue, then make a very unintelligent argument against one small piece of that dialogue that YOU twisted till it was completely out of context. That was the reason I replied to your last post. You have a one track mind and you can not understand the point someone else is trying to make. I would also bet that you have a lot of these disagreements with people that are forced to deal with you on a regular basis. You are not an intelligent person. You completely missed the point I was trying to make. You also get defensive too easily. Good luck with that mind of yours. God be with you.

 

 

Welcome to the club. I couldn't have said it better.

[boatbaby]

Curiosity...if you believe there is no God, maker, how was life in it's intricate design created? Just wonder what you all believe? Or maybe you don't even think that far. But if there is no Higher Being, where did we come from? By the way...I don't believe in reincarnation, superstitions or anything along that line. Just a question...I am not here to argue, or try to change anyone's belief system, I am just trying to understand.

[boatbaby]

I was sent this in an email and I though I would share it will all of you.

 

THE AWAKENING

 

A time comes in your life when you finally get it...when, in the midst of

all your fears and insanity, you stop dead in your tracks and somewhere the

voice inside your head cries out - ENOUGH!

 

Enough fighting and crying or struggling to hold on. And, like a child

quieting down after a blind tantrum, your sobs begin to subside, you shudder

once or twice, you blink back your tears and begin to look at the world

through new eyes.

 

This is your awakening.

 

You realize it's time to stop hoping and waiting for something to

change...or for happiness, safety and security to come galloping over the

next horizon.

 

You come to terms with the fact that neither of you is Prince Charming or

Cinderella and that in the real world there aren't always fairy tale endings

(or beginnings for that matter) and that any guarantee of "happily ever

after" must begin with you...and in the process a sense of serenity is born

of acceptance.

 

You awaken to the fact that you are not perfect and that not everyone will

always love, appreciate or approve of who or what you are ... and that's OK.

 

They are entitled to their own views and opinions.

 

And you learn the importance of loving and championing yourself...and in the

process a sense of new found confidence is born of self-approval.

 

You stop complaining and blaming other people for the things they did to you

(or didn't do for you) and you learn that the only thing you can really

count on is the unexpected.

 

You learn that people don't always say what they mean or mean what they say

and that not everyone will always be there for you and that it's not always

about you.

 

So, you learn to stand on your own and to take care of yourself...and in the

process a sense of safety and security is born of self-reliance.

 

You stop judging and pointing fingers and you begin to accept people as they

are and to overlook their shortcomings and human frailties. and in the

process a sense of peace and contentment is born of forgiveness.

 

You realize that much of the way you view yourself, and the world around

you, is as a result of all the messages and opinions that have been

ingrained into your psyche.

 

And you begin to sift through all the junk you've been fed about how you

should behave, how you should look, how much you should weigh, what you

should wear, what you should do for a living, how much money you should

make, what you should drive, how and where you should live, who you should

marry, the importance of having and raising children, and what you owe your

parents, family, and friends.

 

You learn to open up to new worlds and different points of view.

 

And you begin reassessing and redefining who you are and what you really

stand for.

 

You learn the difference between wanting and needing and you begin to

discard the doctrines and values you've outgrown, or should never have

bought into to begin with ... and in the process you learn to go with your

instincts.

 

You learn that it is truly in giving that we receive.

 

And that there is power and glory in creating and contributing and you stop

maneuvering through life merely as a "consumer" looking for your next fix.

 

You learn that principles such as honesty and integrity are not the outdated

ideals of a bygone era but the mortar that holds together the foundation

upon which you must build a life.

 

You learn that you don't know everything, it's not your job to save the

world and that you can't teach a pig to sing.

 

You learn to distinguish between guilt and responsibility and the importance

of setting boundaries and learning to say NO.

 

You learn that the only cross to bear is the one you choose to carry and

that martyrs get burned at the stake.

 

Then you learn about love.

 

How to love, how much to give in love, when to stop giving and when to walk

away.

 

You learn to look at relationships as they really are and not as you would

have them be.

 

You stop trying to control people, situations and outcomes.

 

And you learn that alone does not mean lonely.

 

You also stop working so hard at putting your feelings aside, smoothing

things over and ignoring your needs.

 

You learn that feelings of entitlement are perfectly OK....and that it is

your right to want things and to ask for the things you want ... and that

sometimes it is necessary to make demands.

 

You come to the realization that you deserve to be treated with love,

kindness, sensitivity and respect and you won't settle for less.

 

And you learn that your body really is your temple.

 

And you begin to care for it and treat it with respect.

 

You begin to eat a balanced diet, drink more water, and take more time to

exercise.

 

You learn that being tired fuels doubt, fear, and uncertainty and so you

take more time to rest.

 

And, just as food fuels the body, laughter fuels our soul.

 

So you take more time to laugh and to play.

 

You learn that, for the most part, you get in life what you believe you

deserve...and that much of life truly is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

You learn that anything worth achieving is worth working for and that

wishing for something to happen is different than working toward making it

happen.

 

More importantly, you learn that in order to achieve success you need

direction, discipline and perseverance.

 

You also learn that no one can do it all alone...and that it's OK to risk

asking for help.

 

You learn the only thing you must truly fear is the greatest robber baron of

all: FEAR itself.

 

You learn to step right into and through your fears because you know that

whatever happens you can handle it and to give in to fear is to give away

the right to live life on your own terms.

 

And you learn to fight for your life and not to squander it living under a

cloud of impending doom.

 

You learn that life isn't always fair, you don't always get what you think

you deserve and that sometimes bad things happen to unsuspecting, good

people.

 

On these occasions you learn not to personalize things.

 

You learn that God isn't punishing you or failing to answer your prayers.

 

It's just life happening.

 

And you learn to deal with evil in its most primal state - the ego.

 

You learn that negative feelings such as anger, envy and resentment must be

understood and redirected or they will suffocate the life out of you and

poison the universe that surrounds you.

 

You learn to admit when you are wrong and to build bridges instead of walls.

 

You learn to be thankful and to take comfort in many of the simple things we

take for granted, things that millions of people upon the earth can only

dream about: a full refrigerator, clean running water, a soft warm bed, a

long hot shower.

 

Slowly, you begin to take responsibility for yourself by yourself and you

make yourself a promise to never betray yourself and to never, ever settle

for less than your heart's desire.

 

And you hang a wind chime outside your window so you can listen to the wind.

 

And you make it a point to keep smiling, to keep trusting, and to stay open

to every wonderful possibility.

 

Finally, with courage in your heart and God by your side you take a stand,

you take a deep breath, and you begin to design the life you want to live as

best you can.

 

-- Author Unknown

[Trimdingman]

Curiosity...if you believe there is no God, maker, how was life in it's intricate design created? Just wonder what you all believe? Or maybe you don't even think that far. But if there is no Higher Being, where did we come from? By the way...I don't believe in reincarnation, superstitions or anything along that line. Just a question...I am not here to argue, or try to change anyone's belief system, I am just trying to understand.

 

 

I can tell you what I think. There are an infinite number of possibilities of how we got here. Nobody knows. I don't think it was a "higher being". If there are more evolved species, then there would be whole worlds full of them, not just one. I have an idea. I don't believe it, but it is just one possibility. When the planet Nibiru is picking up speed, before it disrupts our planet, it becomes inhospitable for its inhabitants. They temporarily land on earth for their safety. It is written in ancient texts that they are reptilian. They are going to need food during their stay. We are it. That is why they created us.

[Hosh]

I can tell you what I think. There are an infinite number of possibilities of how we got here. Nobody knows. I don't think it was a "higher being". If there are more evolved species, then there would be whole worlds full of them, not just one. I have an idea. I don't believe it, but it is just one possibility. When the planet Nibiru is picking up speed, before it disrupts our planet, it becomes inhospitable for its inhabitants. They temporarily land on earth for their safety. It is written in ancient texts that they are reptilian. They are going to need food during their stay. We are it. That is why they created us.

What colour is the sky in your world? :happy feet:

[Trimdingman]

What colour is the sky in your world? :happy feet:

 

I have a better imagination than the ones who made up the Bible.

[boatbaby]

I have a better imagination than the ones who made up the Bible.

 

Could you be a little clearer on this?