To Our Children...

[Pumpmaster]

satan is in control now...lol

:happy feet:

[megirldeth]

check out a movie called zeitguiest on you tube very interesting 13 chapters long but a great eye opening movie...peace brother.

[Indy]

I gotta interject here, cap'n: you can relax---there ain't no "god" gonna "judge" you or anyone else. Let's just treat each other with respect and kindness. The world would be a better place if we all did that!

 

"Sin" was invented by religious and political hustlers as a way to keep people in line, and "salvation" is religions' idea of solving a problem of it's own making.

 

Agreed 100%, I guess it could be seen as a matter of "whatever it takes"...

 

Personally, I feel no great need to fear any being for the purpose of making me "do the right thing". If it works for others, fine.... Whatever floats your boat.

 

For me though, my moral compass needs no religious calibration. Right and wrong are just that: "Right" and "Wrong". I will deal with the consequences personally. I have no need of pawning them off on a messiah, nor do I disown anything that I have done wrong. They are MY errors and I will own them 100%.

 

If there is a God somewhere and when I die, I will say the same thing then. If I believe in a God, then the God I would believe in would not hold that against me because I live life the best I can. I will defend my family to my dying breath, same for my country and my personal views on what is fair and just (That does not include persecution of others over a matter of belief no matter what religion they choose to follow, whom one chooses to love be it of different gender or not, or any other number of exclusionary benefits exhorted by some religions).

[chriper]

I think the crap killer meant "go fuck youself" just a guess. To sum up your whole post---you can't get blood from a rock.

 

nor can you get competent representation from elected officials,who only care about furthering their bling, bling, arrogant lifestyle,,and think they are above you and need to speak,,,"easyspeak" to you :shades:

[Trimdingman]

I don't believe in religion, but it should be a freedom for people who want to believe. Government should make no reference to any religion. There was a time when religion was forced on people. Religion was in the government. People were tortured and killed for the "crime" of being a non-believer. Personally, I think that religion is evil and holds back civilization and progress. People who join religions become pawns. If there was life after death, science should have detected it by now. I hope that there is, but that hope is fading. Religion takes advantage of peoples' superstitious nature. What happens to you after you die will not be altered by what you believe. That is an obvious scam, as there is no way to disprove it. You may say what harm is there in playing it safe? There is a lot of harm if you go through life following a narrow path based on superstition. You are depriving yourself and your children and future generations of knowledge. You are also programming them to fall prey to any authoritarian figure. They need to be free to think for themselves, or else successive generations will dumb down instead of becoming more knowledgeable.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Trimdingman

[chriper]

nor can you get competent representation from elected officials,who only care about furthering their bling, bling, arrogant lifestyle,,and think they are above you and need to speak,,,"easyspeak" to you :shades:

 

bump

[skildtraydz]

Right and wrong are just that: "Right" and "Wrong".

 

That's interesting logic, where did the idea of right and wrong come from. If we acknowledge that there is a right and wrong, who establishes what is right or what is wrong?

 

If you say the people decide then based on the polls, 75% of people polled nationally say let the big 3 die. So, in that case, it is right to fire us all.

[skildtraydz]

Or maybe one day the majority of people might say that rape, child abuse, or murder are legal. Will that make it "right?"

 

Look at slavery, or the holocaust, they had popular support at the time. They weren't right.

 

The problem is that some people are so self-centered that they cannot imagine having to be accountable to a higher power.

 

There is absolute truth because there is no way right or wrong could have evolved. What would be the advantage of right or wrong becoming part of a society. Wouldn't it just be a weakness? Survival of the fittest, right?

[boatbaby]

Don't take me wrong, I believe in freedom of religion. It is in our constitution. Those who first came to this country came here to escape religious persecution. But I also believe that as they take "God" ( I am not talking religion) out then the line between right and wrong become more smeared. I don't like religion, there are man-made laws that do hinder people. I believe in the bible...plain and simple. God doesn't allow bad things to happen, we were given free will. It is our choice to do what is right or what is wrong. God does not hinder us in any way. There are many "religions" out there, it is in anyone's freedom to follow or not. I don't try to push my beliefs on people, I just state my beliefs. Accept them or not, no matter to me.

[simonsez]

I don't believe in religion, but it should be a freedom for people who want to believe. Government should make no reference to any religion. There was a time when religion was forced on people. Religion was in the government. People were tortured and killed for the "crime" of being a non-believer. Personally, I think that religion is evil and holds back civilization and progress. People who join religions become pawns. If there was life after death, science should have detected it by now. I hope that there is, but that hope is fading. Religion takes advantage of peoples' superstitious nature. What happens to you after you die will not be altered by what you believe. That is an obvious scam, as there is no way to disprove it. You may say what harm is there in playing it safe? There is a lot of harm if you go through life following a narrow path based on superstition. You are depriving yourself and your children and future generations of knowledge. You are also programming them to fall prey to any authoritarian figure. They need to be free to think for themselves, or else successive generations will dumb down instead of becoming more knowledgeable.

 

 

if you get a chance google "near death experiences" or "after death experiences", pretty intresting stuff. How people from complete opposite parts of the world, some who have no idea about religion or Jesus Christ have the same or very similiar experiences when they die and come back,i for one do believe there is more than this. I also believe, and will never be ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Even He spoke out against "religion" and explained the mindset we should have, not legalism or man made rules, Matthew 18:3

 

Dont you think that if there is the slightest chance that I could be right, maybe it would be good to investigate?

[Hard Driver]

Why did your "god" let christians Timmy McVeigh and David Koresh murder innocent people?

 

There is obviously a lot that you don't understand about Christianity and posting on a chat board will not fill the void. Anyone can "claim" to be a Christian but there are also actions and sacrifices that are involved.

 

satan is in control now...lol

 

But the show isn't over...and he isn't really in control!

Edited March 10, 2009 by Hard Driver

[boatbaby]

if you get a chance google "near death experiences" or "after death experiences", pretty intresting stuff. How people from complete opposite parts of the world, some who have no idea about religion or Jesus Christ have the same or very similiar experiences when they die and come back,i for one do believe there is more than this. I also believe, and will never be ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Even He spoke out against "religion" and explained the mindset we should have, not legalism or man made rules, Matthew 18:3

 

Dont you think that if there is the slightest chance that I could be right, maybe it would be good to investigate?

 

I agree with you in my heart and soul. I believe in Jesus Christ and that he died to save us. I have accepted him as my savior. There are many who are not believers on here and that is their right. I don't judge anyone, this is not my job, one day we will each stand before our maker and have to answer for our lives. There is no perfect human being now or ever, we are all born sinners. Thank Jesus for his sacrifice. God Bless you all.

[DetroitFanz]

Or maybe one day the majority of people might say that rape, child abuse, or murder are legal. Will that make it "right?"

 

Look at slavery, or the holocaust, they had popular support at the time. They weren't right.

 

The problem is that some people are so self-centered that they cannot imagine having to be accountable to a higher power.

 

There is absolute truth because there is no way right or wrong could have evolved. What would be the advantage of right or wrong becoming part of a society. Wouldn't it just be a weakness? Survival of the fittest, right?

 

 

Your whole statement is flawed. Number one: your point about slavery and the holocaust negates your point about the evolution and advantage of a right and wrong value system. The only thing we NEED to believe in is that we should NOT treat others in a manner that we would NOT want to be treated. Basically, don't be a hypocrite. Also, being accountable to a higher power does not make you less self centered. Do you want a list of all the "self-centered" historical figures that were devout religious BELIEVERS? Is the pope a humble man?!!! And who said anything about survival of the fittest? If you want to go there, look at Hitler's religious convictions. Look at the corrupt and downright evil history of the Vatican and the Roman Catholics. Have you ever heard of Martin Luther and what he went through for the his religious beliefs? What about the Mormon history? The Ottoman Empire? All based on religion to one God. All perfect examples of "survival of the fittest"(or most righteous). Historically, organized religion is just another poor excuse for one group of people to condemn or kill a different group of people. Look at Palestine and Israel. In the civilized, modern world, it's a way to make a lot of money off of ignorant and desperate BELIEVERS. You must have seen or heard of tv evangelists. There's your survival of the fittest. It's all about religion. Where did anyone stop and consider right and wrong? It seems to me that the whole human race would be much better off if we just did away with religion altogether. Right and wrong has "evolved" more from the need for self preservation than any religious or superstitious nonsense. I for one, don't need to see a repeat of the holocaust, the Jim Crow era, or a HOLY WAR to realize: if it can happen to them, it can happen to me. That's what I believe in. So stop throwing idiotic terms like "absolute truth" around, because "absolute truth" is ALSO a myth. The only absolute truth you will find in this life is that eventually we all die. Do you really need to believe in ghosts to have a valid reason to treat other humans the way you want to be treated? You just need a brain. Think about it.

[Pumpmaster]

There is obviously a lot that you don't understand about Christianity and posting on a chat board will not fill the void. Anyone can "claim" to be a Christian but there are also actions and sacrifices that are involved.

 

 

 

But the show isn't over...and he isn't really in control!

 

 

The person I asked the question didn't answer it---and neither did you.

 

Let me guess: people like Tim McVeigh and David Koresh weren't "true" christians, but YOU are? Of course.

 

 

And you can relax, too: not only is there no "god," there's no satan, either.

[skildtraydz]

 

 

Your whole statement is flawed. Number one: your point about slavery and the holocaust negates your point about the evolution and advantage of a right and wrong value system. The only thing we NEED to believe in is that we should NOT treat others in a manner that we would NOT want to be treated. Basically, don't be a hypocrite. Also, being accountable to a higher power does not make you less self centered. Do you want a list of all the "self-centered" historical figures that were devout religious BELIEVERS? Is the pope a humble man?!!! And who said anything about survival of the fittest? If you want to go there, look at Hitler's religious convictions. Look at the corrupt and downright evil history of the Vatican and the Roman Catholics. Have you ever heard of Martin Luther and what he went through for the his religious beliefs? What about the Mormon history? The Ottoman Empire? All based on religion to one God. All perfect examples of "survival of the fittest"(or most righteous). Historically, organized religion is just another poor excuse for one group of people to condemn or kill a different group of people. Look at Palestine and Israel. In the civilized, modern world, it's a way to make a lot of money off of ignorant and desperate BELIEVERS. You must have seen or heard of tv evangelists. There's your survival of the fittest. It's all about religion. Where did anyone stop and consider right and wrong? It seems to me that the whole human race would be much better off if we just did away with religion altogether. Right and wrong has "evolved" more from the need for self preservation than any religious or superstitious nonsense. I for one, don't need to see a repeat of the holocaust, the Jim Crow era, or a HOLY WAR to realize: if it can happen to them, it can happen to me. That's what I believe in. So stop throwing idiotic terms like "absolute truth" around, because "absolute truth" is ALSO a myth. The only absolute truth you will find in this life is that eventually we all die. Do you really need to believe in ghosts to have a valid reason to treat other humans the way you want to be treated? You just need a brain. Think about it.

Why do you get to determine what the only belief should be? Why is your one belief more valid than a person who might say "The only thing we NEED to believe is to get what I want at any cost."

 

There is truth.

 

I cannot find one place in the Bible where it states to believe in a religion, in a pope, a hypocrite, a non-hypocrite, in a TV evangelist, in a Priest, in a church, in a Pastor or any other man, woman, group or man-made organization. It says to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

 

For every corrupt TV evangelist, or other religious leader, there are thousands of others who lead churches for long hours and little pay. But they are not in the spotlight because it is not interesting or doesn't contribute to a specific agenda.

[Furious1Auto]

If for some reason these threads are looked back upon by the next generation, I think we owe you a big apology. You will be the first generation that will probably not have the oppportunity to progress further than the generation before you. We are leaving you with another trillion dollars further in debt because of greed,plain and simple. As a third generation auto worker I have seen the decline of the UAW, mostly due to the fact there were no leaders that stepped up to he plate with foresight that the great leaders of the past such as Walter Reuther had. When we were fat and rich 10-15 years ago no one cared or thought this day would come and since then we have elected leaders that run this orginization by nepotism,favortism and politics, replacing the ideals of standing for seniority,integrity and or just plain and simple doing the right and moral things they took oath to do. All we can hope for is that a lesson will be learned from all this and you our children will not make the same mistake. As we continue to dump more money into orginizations ran by people that use the funds to pay for their luxurious lifestyles and perks, we can only see doom on the horizon. Again I want to personally say I am sorry, and may God bless you.

 

Your wasting your time BOF only keeps post for about 2 years then they are deleted to save server space. That is unless they shut down for maintainance, and dump current posts and threads. I have seen that happen also!

Edited March 10, 2009 by Furious1Auto

[boatbaby]

The person I asked the question didn't answer it---and neither did you.

 

Let me guess: people like Tim McVeigh and David Koresh weren't "true" christians, but YOU are? Of course.

 

 

And you can relax, too: not only is there no "god," there's no satan, either.

 

I guess I answered generically, "there are many religions out there". For instance, the radical islamist believe in alah and it is martyrdom to kill the infidel (American's and Isrealites). I have said that I don't agree with religion. It is each individuals right to believe whatever it is they believe. I (we) are not to judge anyone. "IF" people like Tim McVeigh and David Koresh or others like them were actually "true christians" they would have believed in the Bible and the Ten Commandments, which would have not led them to do the horrible things they did. "Thou shalt not kill".

This is the best answer I can give you. I don't know what others believe or why they choose to do what they do. I cannot control anyone else's actions, only my own. My answer to situations is faith and prayer, this gets me through and helps me not to worry too much about things like my job that I do not have control over.

 

Thanks to everyone in this forum, I find it very interesting. God Bless You All

Edited March 10, 2009 by boatbaby

[DetroitFanz]

:banghead: :banghead:

Why do you get to determine what the only belief should be? Why is your one belief more valid than a person who might say "The only thing we NEED to believe is to get what I want at any cost."

 

There is truth.

 

I cannot find one place in the Bible where it states to believe in a religion, in a pope, a hypocrite, a non-hypocrite, in a TV evangelist, in a Priest, in a church, in a Pastor or any other man, woman, group or man-made organization. It says to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

 

For every corrupt TV evangelist, or other religious leader, there are thousands of others who lead churches for long hours and little pay. But they are not in the spotlight because it is not interesting or doesn't contribute to a specific agenda.

 

Hypocrite............I determined what a person needs to LEAD a peaceful life on Earth. Your free to live any way you choose. I say lead because I can not control what someone else may do to me (like the current economic crisis, for example). Historically, religion SEEMS to have caused more harm than good (please see my last post for examples). If there really is a god and this god is good, I don't believe he needs his feet or his ring kissed in order to NOT condemn me to hell. I'm certain he would be ok with us finding any way we can to get along and NOT kill, steal, or deceive each other. You act as though I'm telling you how to live, just because I stated that all we need is to respect each other's right to a peaceful, unmolested existence. YOUR absolute truth is not truth at all. It's just what you choose to believe. The TRUTH is: you don't need religion to live in this world without hurting anybody else. You DO need a sense of right and wrong. You get that just like you obtain any other knowledge. Like making money, building credit, establishing relationships. Jesus Christ need not be involved. You keep trying to start a fight over YOUR GOD DAMNED religion, when all anyone has said is that if the decision makers had a sense of right and wrong, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. I would bet my last dollar that the majority of the hypocrites that led us down this road are church goers and believers in some form of religion. Most likely, christianity. Again, you reply to a post by stripping everything out of the dialogue that you can not argue, then make a very unintelligent argument against one small piece of that dialogue that YOU twisted till it was completely out of context. That was the reason I replied to your last post. You have a one track mind and you can not understand the point someone else is trying to make. I would also bet that you have a lot of these disagreements with people that are forced to deal with you on a regular basis. You are not an intelligent person. You completely missed the point I was trying to make. You also get defensive too easily. Good luck with that mind of yours. God be with you.

[DetroitFanz]

Ask yourself this question: what if you're wrong, and the Mormons are right? Or the Jews? Or the Hindu's? Or the Muslims?

 

Why did your "god" let christians Timmy McVeigh and David Koresh murder innocent people?

 

Who did David Koresh kill? I'm pretty sure HE was the one that was killed by the Feds. Same deal with Ruby Ridge. The Feds were the bad guys. Koresh wasn't even accused of murdering anybody. McVeigh was a coward and a murderer. Koresh was basically deranged, but no killer.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh

[Pumpmaster]

Who did David Koresh kill? I'm pretty sure HE was the one that was killed by the Feds. Same deal with Ruby Ridge. The Feds were the bad guys. Koresh wasn't even accused of murdering anybody. McVeigh was a coward and a murderer. Koresh was basically deranged, but no killer.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh

 

See how divisive religion is?

 

McVeigh was a Catholic, who requested---and got---a priest to deliver "last rights" at his execution. He was a theist---a believer---just like you. He was an American---just like you. He probably thought it was ok with his "god" to strike at the U.S. government, and he killed 168 innocent people in the process. That's sick---and I'm an atheist.

 

Koresh was a "believer" and an American---just like you. He thought HE was jesus. Can you prove him wrong?

 

Also, "the Feds" you refer to---many of them are christian americans, with families---just like you.

[DetroitFanz]

See how divisive religion is?

 

McVeigh was a Catholic, who requested---and got---a priest to deliver "last rights" at his execution. He was a theist---a believer---just like you. He was an American---just like you. He probably thought it was ok with his "god" to strike at the U.S. government, and he killed 168 innocent people in the process. That's sick---and I'm an atheist.

 

Koresh was a "believer" and an American---just like you. He thought HE was jesus. Can you prove him wrong?

 

Also, "the Feds" you refer to---many of them are christian americans, with families---just like you.

 

I'm actually not a christian or even a creationist, but I do agree with your point. It seems that the people doing the most harm usually have some religious crap to hide behind. I've also noticed that every time someone tells me how I should be living, it's a self prescribed religious person doing the preaching. And from what I gather, the only difference between Koresh and Jesus is the way they were killed. The lunatic fringe just isn't giving DK the props they gave JC.

Edited March 10, 2009 by DetroitFanz

[skildtraydz]

:banghead: :banghead:

 

Hypocrite............I determined what a person needs to LEAD a peaceful life on Earth. Your free to live any way you choose. I say lead because I can not control what someone else may do to me (like the current economic crisis, for example). Historically, religion SEEMS to have caused more harm than good (please see my last post for examples). If there really is a god and this god is good, I don't believe he needs his feet or his ring kissed in order to NOT condemn me to hell. I'm certain he would be ok with us finding any way we can to get along and NOT kill, steal, or deceive each other. You act as though I'm telling you how to live, just because I stated that all we need is to respect each other's right to a peaceful, unmolested existence. YOUR absolute truth is not truth at all. It's just what you choose to believe. The TRUTH is: you don't need religion to live in this world without hurting anybody else. You DO need a sense of right and wrong. You get that just like you obtain any other knowledge. Like making money, building credit, establishing relationships. Jesus Christ need not be involved. You keep trying to start a fight over YOUR GOD DAMNED religion, when all anyone has said is that if the decision makers had a sense of right and wrong, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. I would bet my last dollar that the majority of the hypocrites that led us down this road are church goers and believers in some form of religion. Most likely, christianity. Again, you reply to a post by stripping everything out of the dialogue that you can not argue, then make a very unintelligent argument against one small piece of that dialogue that YOU twisted till it was completely out of context. That was the reason I replied to your last post. You have a one track mind and you can not understand the point someone else is trying to make. I would also bet that you have a lot of these disagreements with people that are forced to deal with you on a regular basis. You are not an intelligent person. You completely missed the point I was trying to make. You also get defensive too easily. Good luck with that mind of yours. God be with you.

 

Treat others the way you want to be treated....do you like being insulted? You call me a hypocrite.

 

Your anger tells much about your ability to debate.

 

If my religion (as you say but again, I'm not discussing religion) is dammed then at least you acklowledge there is a hell. You're on the right track.

 

May God bless you (without the finger)

[Pulse]

the sum of the whole post is that we all play leadership rolls somewhere in life, until we put God,our family and our brothers and sisters in the priority level above our own greed and personal comforts as leaders...this is what we get. I guess it was a typical response for the times.Pretty sad

 

The last time I replied to you I was jumping on the GFY band wagon. The only excuse I could possibly offer would be buried stress. The UAW members that work for the Ford family are beyond themselfs as you know. I read your frustration tonight. Sorry

[boatbaby]

I'm actually not a christian or even a creationist, but I do agree with your point. It seems that the people doing the most harm usually have some religious crap to hide behind. I've also noticed that every time someone tells me how I should be living, it's a self prescribed religious person doing the preaching. And from what I gather, the only difference between Koresh and Jesus is the way they were killed. The lunatic fringe just isn't giving DK the props they gave JC.

 

The gospel of Jesus Christ (which is not a "religion" and is what I truly believe in ) tells us to love everyone, including and more importantly our enemies. We do not have to agree with them or their actions, but we are to pray for them. If these people were bible-believing Christians they would not have acted in the manner that they did. Anyone can claim to be a christian, it is our actions that speak louder than words and it our actions that prove where our faith lies. Throughout time, there have been many people who have given Christianity a bad name. They say they are Christian and use this to try to further their cause or make themselves out to be better than they are. But by their actions we can see they are not really Christians after all. There have been many horrible things done all in the name of "religion" as I have stated earlier, look at the radical Islamists. They believe they are pleasing their god by killing Americans and Jews. That is their purpose in life. Islamic mothers are strapping bombs on their children and making them suicide bombers, and are very proud to do so. To us, this doesn't even come close to making sense, but to them it is an honor. These people are taught this from early childhood and know no better. They are brainwashed, much the same as the people who fed koolaid to their kids and drank it themselves. We cannot control anyone's life or what they believe. We each have a right to choose, it is called "free will"

I place my faith in God and find peace in doing so.

[boatbaby]

I heartily disagree. It's precisely because so many Americans spend so much time on an invisible man in the sky ("god")---that we're on the verge of another depression.

 

If we're gonna pull outta this disaster, we gotta stop begging an invisible sky "god" for help; that "god" is obviously dead or deaf. We've got to it ourselves.

 

Can I ask, how did spending time on the "invisible man in the sky" get us to the verge of another depression? I don't follow that logic, please explain.