Fobres: The Most Reliable Cars For 2006

[OAC Lineman]

I dont pay much attention to JD Power OR CR, and don't know anyone that does either. My suspicion is they are over-rated in the importance people place on them.

I agree that the reviews are probably over rated, but millions of people read them, and will refuse to buy a car that is not reviewed well. Weather it's perception or not, Ford needs to get it's cars to fair well in these reviews if we want our market share to rise.

[bec5150]

Which vehicle has a better perceived quality by the customer:

 

1. A Japanese car that has four problems fixed in two visits to the dealer or...

 

2. An American car that has three problems that take SEVEN visits to the dealer to fix (and one problem not ever being fixed right)?

 

This example is exactly what has happened to me. Furtehrmore, the issues with the Ford have ALL been cheap parts. Not engineering, not assembly, but cheap parts..period. Better paint than the Honda, better interior integrety, and a fine impression that could have made me buy a Ford for my wife instead of a Honda..but the dealer screwed it all up.

Edited May 1, 2006 by bec5150

[StevenJ]

Well my Marauder is three years old and the only thing that went was the car battery. So explain that. Only thing that annoys me about it is it takes it a second to warm up after it's first start of the day but that's normal. Bec, you should go to a Lincoln Mercury dealer instead of Ford. They have much higher service ratings than normal Ford dealers and they will be more than happy to work on any mainbrand Ford products, including warranty work.

[bec5150]

Well my Marauder is three years old and the only thing that went was the car battery. So explain that. Only thing that annoys me about it is it takes it a second to warm up after it's first start of the day but that's normal. Bec, you should go to a Lincoln Mercury dealer instead of Ford. They have much higher service ratings than normal Ford dealers and they will be more than happy to work on any mainbrand Ford products, including warranty work.

So even you admit that going to the Ford dealer is not an ideal situation. We don't have an LM dealer anywhere close to my house...but the Honda dealer is within three miles.

[StevenJ]

So even you admit that going to the Ford dealer is not an ideal situation. We don't have an LM dealer anywhere close to my house...but the Honda dealer is within three miles.

 

Depends what area you are in. There are plenty of good Ford dealers as well as bad ones. But the problem is is that there are millions of Ford dealers and finding a good one isn't always easy plus they are all indepently owned and operated. Basically, find a dealer that you like, ask what some of the customers in the service center have to say about the place, and you'll be able to tell if they are a good center or not. I got dealers by me that are fantastic in terms of service.

 

Sawgrass Ford for example has an excellent parts/ service deparment. While I never had done work there before on my car I ordered a replacement turnsignal because my original was damaged in a parking accident. They ordered it and it came in literately over night and it was ready the next day and it was even the right part too! However, there's a Marrone Ford down here, not saying which one, where I was talking to a Mustang owner and she needed some warranty work done to the car. She brought it there five times and they couldn't solve it. So she brought it to another Maroone Ford dealer and they got it done right the first time.

 

Honda dealers tend to be more consolidated because it is a relatively newer name so there are fewer long time franchises so finding a good dealer isn't as hard since most of them tend to be mega dealers. Ford and GMs are different and they have delears that have been around since the 50's and the 60's and such and they aren't always as good at keeping up with the times. There are whole articles on this subject about how Ford and Gm both have an overly big dealer network. But in general to answer your question, L/M dealers tend to be better in terms of service since L/M dealers seem to take their customers more seriously. Where did I get this data by chance? From a JD Power an Associates survey from last year that compared the customer service experience per brand and Mercury was on the top ten along with Lincoln.

Edited May 2, 2006 by StevenJ

[bec5150]

Honda dealers tend to be more consolidated because it is a relatively newer name so there are fewer long time franchises so finding a good dealer isn't as hard since most of them tend to be mega dealers. Ford and GMs are different and they have delears that have been around since the 50's and the 60's and such and they aren't always as good at keeping up with the times.

You know what I read above? Buy a Honda. That's what I read. I read that if I want to buy a Ford, I will have to work harder to get good service. That's what I read.

 

And you know what? That's sad.

[StevenJ]

You know what I read above? Buy a Honda. That's what I read. I read that if I want to buy a Ford, I will have to work harder to get good service. That's what I read.

 

And you know what? That's sad.

 

There are bad Honda dealers too as well as Toyota. They also don't tell you what kind of recalls were fixed on your car when you bring your car in. Ford dealers tell you everything and you won't have a problem if you go to a Lincoln Mercury dealer since their service is very good. Most Ford dealers seem good from what I have seen. Just go to the bigger dealers with the bigger service bays and you should be fine. Really, it isn't that big of a deal.

[Aqeel Mahesri]

I haven't seen JD Power data, but I think that it is much better than Consumer Reports. The problem is that most articles throw CR's data around like it was the gospel truth.

 

This is just ignorance. JDP's data is much more superficial than CR's, their sample size is smaller, and they only survey 3 year old cars versus up to 8 for CR. You can criticize CR legitimately for certain shortcomings, but you shouldn't claim JDP results are better. Oh and BTW JDP has long shown Toyota and Honda at the top, just like CR.

 

By far the best reliability numbers are kept by the automakers themselves. Ford, GM, and Toyota know exactly how many problems their cars have because they are reported back through dealers. Too bad these numbers are closely guarded trade secrets. Once in a while, though, you can tell when the internal numbers agree/disagree with CR surveys. When CR's survey gave a black dot to the 2004 F-150, Ford came out and said their internal data showed otherwise. On the other hand, when CR's survey gave a black dot to the 2005 Chevy Cobalt, GM basically said that next year's model would be better, suggesting CR's survey was on to something.

Edited May 6, 2006 by Aqeel Mahesri

[bri719]

Look at those first words. "According to our SUBSCRIBER SURVEY..." As anyone who has ever done statistical work can tell you a SUBSCRIBER SURVEY CAN NEVER BE ACCURATE. Your sample size is totally unpredictible. Who returns the cards? Who SUBSCRIBES TO YOUR MAGAZINE? All this becomes not truly random, and hence is suspect.

 

 

yes, even a Stats 101 class will tell you this.

 

as for Forbes, well, just another magazine to add to my list that I will never read again.

[bri719]

What is the big conspiracy here? All I here is that reviewers are biased in their decisions. Magazines are biased. Corporations are biased. Most of these are American companies. Why are they biased against American cars? I'm not an expert by any means, but I would think that if an American car was the best in it's class, these magazines would say so. Why wouldn't they?

 

 

just because they're American doesn't mean they have to like them. and that's just what they're out to prove...to a lesser degree, the US consumer is sort of the same way. but some people would never change their buying habits. one example: you're not going to convince some 1st or 2nd gen. Asian immigrant who may or may not speak english to buy an American car. it just isn't gonna happen - and I see tons of those people out there (they all drive Camries/Corollas and the occassional Accord). their kids drive 5-10 yr old Civics, probably their parents' hand-me-down

 

FYI look at an interior, any interior, below the highest trim level on the new Camry and tell me it doesn't exemplify "suck". for that matter check out the cheesy 1 1/4" tailpipe coming out the back of a new Civic and I dare you not to fall down laughing.

Edited May 11, 2006 by bri719

[bri719]

You know what I read above? Buy a Honda. That's what I read. I read that if I want to buy a Ford, I will have to work harder to get good service. That's what I read.

 

And you know what? That's sad.

 

 

who cares? so go own a honda then. there are some people who will never be satisfied, no need to spend extra billions to try to accomodate when it's a waste of time. :blah: if you look at Ford's production numbers and sales, some dealer attrition / consolidation will happen eventually. it may not have on a massive scale, but the numbers suggest it has to (economically, from the dealer's side).

 

I'm going to do the same amount of research about a dealer no matter what brand of car I buy. A - I want the best deal & to be treated fairly while getting said deal and B - I want a place by me that is competent at servicing my vehicle, whether it be routine maintenance or a warranted problem.

 

something else (I guess you might call it C) is I want to be able to get A & B from the same place, preferably.

 

another thing, is I see more dealers = more choice, more ability to shop around & find the best deal. plus I can get mine serviced by my house, by my work, whatever. terrible, just terrible. if you're 100 miles from anywhere and your Honda blows a tranny, what then. and yes it's happened just within my small family, who have only really owned 1 Honda

[06StangAwesomecar]

who cares? so go own a honda then. there are some people who will never be satisfied, no need to spend extra billions to try to accomodate when it's a waste of time. :blah: if you look at Ford's production numbers and sales, some dealer attrition / consolidation will happen eventually. it may not have on a massive scale, but the numbers suggest it has to (economically, from the dealer's side).

 

I'm going to do the same amount of research about a dealer no matter what brand of car I buy. A - I want the best deal & to be treated fairly while getting said deal and B - I want a place by me that is competent at servicing my vehicle, whether it be routine maintenance or a warranted problem.

 

something else (I guess you might call it C) is I want to be able to get A & B from the same place, preferably.

 

another thing, is I see more dealers = more choice, more ability to shop around & find the best deal. plus I can get mine serviced by my house, by my work, whatever. terrible, just terrible. if you're 100 miles from anywhere and your Honda blows a tranny, what then. and yes it's happened just within my small family, who have only really owned 1 Honda

That cant be true, they never break, also Honda is soooooooooooo good if you bring your car in for repairs they just give you a new one!

[GalaxiePete]

I am a proponent of buying American, but after this last Mustang and especially my Mystique - I am open to the other options. I am disgusted with the lack of quality workmanship and service.

 

Why are the Japanese cars so much better? Here is a great example - my brother-in-law works for a tier 1 auto supplier. He is in interior design. He worked on a contract in Japan with a well known manufacturer (not sure how much I can reveal). As an example of the quality of the build of the Japanese vehicle, this company has fitment criteria of 2mm clearance tolerance from Intstrument Panel to Door Panel in Japan on the model he designed. They moved the entire line to a southern state here to produce the same car for US Market. For the same product, on the same machinery, they now have a 5mm tolerance (just by turning it over to US workers). And that is still less then half what the Chrysler and GM products he has worked on have.

 

Why can't the American's make a vehicle of the highest quality? I am sure I am going to piss off a lot of people - but it is the union mentality and cutting corners in engineering (take the 2.7L Chrysler V6 for example). Let's face it. I am not anti-Union. BUT the union has had too much say of how the companies here operate. There are a lot of good union workers, but there are a large number who count on the union to keep them employed and do the absolute minimum or less to get buy. That won't work anymore. Same for the engineering and design. Cheaper is a must, but if you have to add in 300-500 to the cost of a car for quality parts - DO IT. Every other person I know with a GM, Ford, Chrysler product has had a serious issue with thier vehicle. Most consider it par for the course and "no big deal" because that is all they have ever owned, are used to it & it is mostly better then ever. But when you are paying an obsene amount of money for transportation - you don't want it to have a meltdown at 36001 miles or sooner. Look at the foreign car warranties - think there isn't a reason they can/do offer them? Yes it does cost them sometimes - but not most of the time.

[06StangAwesomecar]

I am a proponent of buying American, but after this last Mustang and especially my Mystique - I am open to the other options. I am disgusted with the lack of quality workmanship and service.

 

Why are the Japanese cars so much better? Here is a great example - my brother-in-law works for a tier 1 auto supplier. He is in interior design. He worked on a contract in Japan with a well known manufacturer (not sure how much I can reveal). As an example of the quality of the build of the Japanese vehicle, this company has fitment criteria of 2mm clearance tolerance from Intstrument Panel to Door Panel in Japan on the model he designed. They moved the entire line to a southern state here to produce the same car for US Market. For the same product, on the same machinery, they now have a 5mm tolerance (just by turning it over to US workers). And that is still less then half what the Chrysler and GM products he has worked on have.

 

Why can't the American's make a vehicle of the highest quality? I am sure I am going to piss off a lot of people - but it is the union mentality and cutting corners in engineering (take the 2.7L Chrysler V6 for example). Let's face it. I am not anti-Union. BUT the union has had too much say of how the companies here operate. There are a lot of good union workers, but there are a large number who count on the union to keep them employed and do the absolute minimum or less to get buy. That won't work anymore. Same for the engineering and design. Cheaper is a must, but if you have to add in 300-500 to the cost of a car for quality parts - DO IT. Every other person I know with a GM, Ford, Chrysler product has had a serious issue with thier vehicle. Most consider it par for the course and "no big deal" because that is all they have ever owned, are used to it & it is mostly better then ever. But when you are paying an obsene amount of money for transportation - you don't want it to have a meltdown at 36001 miles or sooner. Look at the foreign car warranties - think there isn't a reason they can/do offer them? Yes it does cost them sometimes - but not most of the time.

 

Another person who doesnt work in the automotive field, talking shit, if you think it is soooo easy then get a job their so you can get a clue, your point of in Japan, then here, the gaps are different, well then whos fault is that, its a non-union plant, so in final assembly somebody has to ok it right, and go look at the gaps in the Fords and Genral Motors cars, and interiors, go look at the new Tahoe.

And yes your right you are going to piss people off because you dont have the slightest clue what it takes to make a car from the drawing board to final assembly, the engineers, designeers, hundreds of differant suppliers. You have a supplier bring in 10-30 seats to be looked at, 10-30 carpets to look at, headliners, dash pads, Americans and American workers ASSEMBLE what they are givin, what you think is if someone is installing seats and they dont like them then the whole company should just stop running until they make a seat to their likeing. The car companys of today are nowhere near what they were 40 yrs ago where they produced everything, thats were the suppliers come in, they promise quality parts, then sell them crap, and who gets the blame, yup Gm/Ford, the suppliers need to be held accountable period.

The car companys are in buisness to make MONEY, not give things away. 3yr 4yr warrantys are par for companys as big as Gm/Ford, they sell how many vehicle together,look it up, compared to Kias.

Work in a dealership and actually see all the BEAT undermaintained vehicles that come in, and you will see why the warrantys are what they are. What about all the people that LEASE vehicles then brag how they beat them, or never did any maintanance on them, then they get turned in and some poor smuck buys it and it turns out to be a big piece of crap, whos fault is that? not Fords or Gm's, but people like you think it is.

The car companys arent Wal-Mart, shit products at low low prices.

[chuckit]

Did I click on the wrong link, all I saw was a Toyota commercial..

 

:boring:

 

 

Yes you did, they have sent in terrorist from the dark side (or the slanted view side).

[FordPaul]

When you drive by a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Kia dealership, what are those big doors on the buidling for? It looks kinda like a service department that the domestics use. But wait, what do they use them for? Oil changes? Wow, all that space for maintenance? Or are they playing poker in there? It must be poker, it's popular now and the Toyotta dealership I drive by everday has people lined up to drive inside to play. Maybe I'll try taking it up one day and join them.