OAC_Paint Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Well pull your finger out and tell all just how much you make an hour with all your benefets added in?Don't forget to figure your medical insurance, Vacation pay, Holliday pay, dental, etc and the company pays half you Social security tax. Now that is what other people are seeing the whole picture. Not just what you take home in your pay check. The people at McDonalds don't see your pay check they see the whole picture including the the car or SUV you drive at a discount which maybe you should add into your wages. What I'm saying is when you pull your finger out be carefull of what you let out. :titanic: Guy, With all due respect..I doubt you are as well informed as to what's going on in the Canadian media as those of us that constantly subject ourselves to reading/hearing it. We as workers are being carpet bombed each and every day! You sound like the dog that's been beat so much, it starts to think it did something to deserve it. Simply because those with a political/profit agenda and the haters want us to capitulate to satisfy their spite does not mean we should shut up and endure it. The company we work for has not asked for a dime from anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsquare Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Guy, With all due respect..I doubt you are as well informed as to what's going on in the Canadian media as those of us that constantly subject ourselves to reading/hearing it. We as workers are being carpet bombed each and every day! You sound like the dog that's been beat so much, it starts to think it did something to deserve it. Simply because those with a political/profit agenda and the haters want us to capitulate to satisfy their spite does not mean we should shut up and endure it. The company we work for has not asked for a dime from anyone. Sorry it sounds a lot different than what we are exposed to down here in the states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maislebandit Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Well pull your finger out and tell all just how much you make an hour with all your benefets added in?Don't forget to figure your medical insurance, Vacation pay, Holliday pay, dental, etc and the company pays half you Social security tax. Now that is what other people are seeing the whole picture. Not just what you take home in your pay check. The people at McDonalds don't see your pay check they see the whole picture including the the car or SUV you drive at a discount which maybe you should add into your wages. What I'm saying is when you pull your finger out be carefull of what you let out. :titanic: What other employment rolls all these benefits into an hourly figure? Last I checked, all companies in the US pay equal part to SS. What makes autoworkers different? Do fast food companies figure in the free/discounted food they provide? How about uniforms? The comparison you make is about as unfair as they get. Industrial manufacturing is dangerous, dirty, loud and puts stress on the body and mind. There is a huge difference between building a car and building a Big Mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 What other employment rolls all these benefits into an hourly figure? Last I checked, all companies in the US pay equal part to SS. What makes autoworkers different? Do fast food companies figure in the free/discounted food they provide? How about uniforms? The comparison you make is about as unfair as they get. Industrial manufacturing is dangerous, dirty, loud and puts stress on the body and mind. There is a huge difference between building a car and building a Big Mac. I did a rough calculation, and figured that if they were to pay McDonalds workers $20 an hour, it could be paid for by increasing the price of a combo by less than a dollar. I would be willing to pay it. All that is required is for the workers to grow a set, like other workers have. I do not appreciate having to pay high taxes to pay for their medical because they are too scared to go for a fair wage. Auto workers are not what is wrong with this country. They are what is right with this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OACville Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) I picked the McDonalds worker because there are more of them than total big three workers. I am a Ford worker too I earn my money just like you do. I'm just trying to say point the gun in another direction instead of at your self. Point your finger at where the problem is. The more you stir up the wages the more people will look at it. And the more you point your finger at incompedance of upper management the more they will look at them. I worked everyday ( Including every weekend, 56 hours a week min. ) last year less holidays. I had the ambition to go to school and become a skilled trade. It was a sacrifice I was willing to make for reward later on down the line to work in a dirty, hazard filled enviromant that my peers wanted no part of. My reward last year was paying 61,000 in Income Tax. How many Mcdonalds employees does that cover? 20- 30? I'm pulling my weight as well as the weight of 20 or 30 other Canadians in taxes alone. My reward for having a bit more ambition. Edited April 22, 2009 by OACville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpc655 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 My reward for having a bit more ambition. Sounds more like punishment to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsquare Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I worked everyday ( Including every weekend, 56 hours a week min. ) last year less holidays. I had the ambition to go to school and become a skilled trade. It was a sacrifice I was willing to make for reward later on down the line to work in a dirty, hazard filled enviromant that my peers wanted no part of. My reward last year was paying 61,000 in Income Tax. How many Mcdonalds employees does that cover? 20- 30? I'm pulling my weight as well as the weight of 20 or 30 other Canadians in taxes alone. My reward for having a bit more ambition. So what does that have to do with you making $75.00 an hour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charly Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 So what does that have to do with you making $75.00 an hour? He was replying to the post quoted in his reply. AND WE DON'T MAKE 75 ANYTHING AN HOUR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OACville Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) So what does that have to do with you making $75.00 an hour? I make 39.xx an hour. Which is in line with what skilled trades make OUTSIDE of the automotive Industry. 10 years ago I left a plastics Industry where I made 30.00 an hour for Ford where I started at 29.00 per hour. Skilled trades are not overpaid at Ford. They get paid the average wage for skilled traded in Canada. They are using funny mathematics to calculate our wages up to 75.00 per hour. I could use the same mathematics to subtract the 42% Income tax I pay and tell everybody I'm making 24.00 an hour then I can also subtract the full EI and CPP that I pay, The Union dues that I pay. A person In this country making 45-50k pays around 10k Income tax. How would they feel If they paid 42% income tax? Edited April 22, 2009 by OACville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OACville Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Sounds more like punishment to me. LOL.. You never met my wife.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 He was replying to the post quoted in his reply. AND WE DON'T MAKE 75 ANYTHING AN HOUR. Lets deal in facts....income,single guy...50 years old...$195000....Ontario Tax...26896 Federal Tax...45165......2009 tax rates tax rate on this income is 38.37%($72000tax) Your direct deposit pay stub tells you your hourly pay rate....to 3 decimal points....low to mid 30's...mid to high 30's skilled trades ...5% or 10% shift premium ..o/t...non skilled in a good year $80000 with lots of o/t....skilled trades well over $100000 80000 income ont tax 6693 fed tax 12617........27.70 %.......................2009 tax rates 100000 income ont tax 10175 fed tax 17759........30.78 %........................2009 tax rates how do you get to $70/hr from $35.....next discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpc655 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 So what does that have to do with you making $75.00 an hour? I've yet to see anyone say that the UAW (or CAW) make 75 USD per hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OACville Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) Lets deal in facts....income,single guy...50 years old...$195000....Ontario Tax...26896 Federal Tax...45165......2009 tax rates tax rate on this income is 38.37%($72000tax) Your direct deposit pay stub tells you your hourly pay rate....to 3 decimal points....low to mid 30's...mid to high 30's skilled trades ...5% or 10% shift premium ..o/t...non skilled in a good year $80000 with lots of o/t....skilled trades well over $100000 80000 income ont tax 6693 fed tax 12617........27.70 %.......................2009 tax rates 100000 income ont tax 10175 fed tax 17759........30.78 %........................2009 tax rates how do you get to $70/hr from $35.....next discussion http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax Edited April 22, 2009 by OACville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsquare Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Lets deal in facts....income,single guy...50 years old...$195000....Ontario Tax...26896 Federal Tax...45165......2009 tax rates tax rate on this income is 38.37%($72000tax) Your direct deposit pay stub tells you your hourly pay rate....to 3 decimal points....low to mid 30's...mid to high 30's skilled trades ...5% or 10% shift premium ..o/t...non skilled in a good year $80000 with lots of o/t....skilled trades well over $100000 80000 income ont tax 6693 fed tax 12617........27.70 %.......................2009 tax rates 100000 income ont tax 10175 fed tax 17759........30.78 %........................2009 tax rates how do you get to $70/hr from $35.....next discussion OK you make $35.00 an hour with lots of FREE benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OACville Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) Free benefits? What free benefits? Every company i have worked for i have received benefits. At every one of those companies the benefits have been the same or better. Ford has one of the worst dental plans i have seen. Teachers have better benefits, Government both Federal and provincial have better benefits, Hydro has better benifits as do other utilities. Steel companies have better benefits. Ford is the 1st place i have worked where you dont get any sick days. The Government employees get 12 sick days a year, if they go over the 12 they get put in a program where they get another 120 plus sick days that year. Oh and it resets every year. Teachers, Police all get sick days and they get to carry them over if they are unused. Edited April 23, 2009 by OACville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ute Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 On A channel tonight's news they finally had workers and a expert saying our pay is not as high as stated it was a good story the workers showed there pay checks ...$33.50 per hour $5 more than honda finally the truth was spoken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outhere_i_m Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Thought this 11 page report from the CAW may be helpful to many in defending our fair wage....... How Much do Autoworkers Really Make???? How Much do Autoworkers REALLY Make? Surprise: It’s NOT $75 Per Hour! by Jim Stanford Economist, Canadian Auto Workers union April 21, 2009 Summary Contrary to misleading statistics cited in recent debates about the future of the North American auto industry, Canadian autoworkers do not “earn” $70 or more per hour. Production workers in CAW-represented auto plants start work at $24 per hour, growing to $34 per hour at full seniority. The cost of current pension, health, and other benefits adds less than $10 per hour to that (on the basis of a normal working year). True compensation for autoworkers, therefore is less than $45 per hour. The higher cost estimate circulated in some public debates reflects a very different concept from wages or compensation. This concept is known as “all-in labour cost per hour.” It is a statistical measure, relatively unique to the auto industry, which captures the effect of all labour-related expenses (even noncompensation costs such as payroll taxes paid directly to government, and the costs associated with downtime and layoffs), calculated relative to the number of hours actually worked in the course of a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 What they do to come up with these inflated numbers is a number of things, which I will expalin. First, why are the auto companies exaggerating our compensation to the media? What is their agenda? Who are they trying to manipulate, and why? There are so few autoworkers left now that even if we made $100 an hour, there would be no impact to the auto industry. In 1929, there were 103,000 Ford workers at the Ford Rouge Complex, for instance. To-day most of the work is contracted out. We do what is left of final assembly, body, and paint, some stamping, and engine assembly. We still man a few parts depots. Virtually all of the parts and compoments are purchaced from outside contractors. A lot of the sub-assembly is now contracted out, and we merely install pre-assembled modules. Examples are engines, dashes, seats, door mechanisms, rad/condenser assembly, etc. Our numbers have been more than decimated over the years. To arrive at our hourly wage, first of all, they calculate how many hours we actually work. They deduct vacations, holidays, coffee breaks, relief breaks, first aid calls, washroom breaks, line stoppages, down weeks, etc. Then they calculate wages, shift premiums, and overtime premiums. They calculate the cost of benefits. They calculate the cost of our retirement benefits and pension, and they also charge to us the cost of current retiree pensions and benefits. Talk about having your cake and eating it too! When they add this all up and divide it into the reduced hours, they come up with $70+ dollars an hour. Why are they doing this to us? They obviously want the general population to hate us and blame us for all of the ills facing the economy. This is nothing new. I am surprised that auto workers still have any sense of self-esteem left. Why don't we sue them for defamation of character? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allford1 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 With all these retirement buy outs and adding to the legacy cost over the last several years. Was this a set up? Now with chapter 11 etc. these companies can throw retired workers pensions to the wind and have younger employees, restructure and move on. This seem like a game plan that has been going on since the first rash of closures and buy outs . Why would the big 3 add so much cost by offering buy outs to so many when legacy cost was the biggest problem with competing with the trans plants. Am I just catching on or was this always seen by the union. The lower wages being brought on will mean lower severence for plants that are not viable.......This is BIG TROUBLE Chapter 11 will be the new buzzzzz word for any industry from here forward. When the general public sees even the true wage of an auto worker they will not feel any compassion since most make far less and this is played out on every blog about the auto industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplesituations Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) What they do to come up with these inflated numbers is a number of things, which I will expalin. First, why are the auto companies exaggerating our compensation to the media? What is their agenda? Who are they trying to manipulate, and why? There are so few autoworkers left now that even if we made $100 an hour, there would be no impact to the auto industry. In 1929, there were 103,000 Ford workers at the Ford Rouge Complex, for instance. To-day most of the work is contracted out. We do what is left of final assembly, body, and paint, some stamping, and engine assembly. We still man a few parts depots. Virtually all of the parts and compoments are purchaced from outside contractors. A lot of the sub-assembly is now contracted out, and we merely install pre-assembled modules. Examples are engines, dashes, seats, door mechanisms, rad/condenser assembly, etc. Our numbers have been more than decimated over the years. To arrive at our hourly wage, first of all, they calculate how many hours we actually work. They deduct vacations, holidays, coffee breaks, relief breaks, first aid calls, washroom breaks, line stoppages, down weeks, etc. Then they calculate wages, shift premiums, and overtime premiums. They calculate the cost of benefits. They calculate the cost of our retirement benefits and pension, and they also charge to us the cost of current retiree pensions and benefits. Talk about having your cake and eating it too! When they add this all up and divide it into the reduced hours, they come up with $70+ dollars an hour. Why are they doing this to us? They obviously want the general population to hate us and blame us for all of the ills facing the economy. This is nothing new. I am surprised that auto workers still have any sense of self-esteem left. Why don't we sue them for defamation of character? You are right on the calculations but the public has already made up their minds thanks to the media putting this false number when all the number is a representation of an accounting formula just for the books. But the human nature of people is to listen and believe the 1st person that they hear it from not listen to the people defending themselves. It's a half truth that was never fully researched before it was reported. Who are the people going to believe first??? The reported story of course. Edited April 25, 2009 by simplesituations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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