One Year Now -'09 FWD FEH

[GaryG]

I have to say after one year of service and 12,500 miles my '09 FEH has not needed ANY repairs. This is great because I have all the Limited options and the Nav System. The average tank mileage on the Nav System reads 4% high compare to gas pumped at fill-ups but I've gotten use to the readings and I adjust real mileage averages throughout the tank by subtracting the 4%. The really great benefit is how well the '09 handles E10 gas for much better mileage than my '05 FEH. The '09 FEH is averaging more than 10mpg over my '05 FEH on E10 and now that E10 is mandated in Florida I can't compare straight gas. My lifetime MPG average is now 49.1 and I expect it will grow to around 52mpg by this time next year.

 

A new technique has just been discovered for DFSO (Fuel-Cut) with a battery SoC less than 46%. DFSO occurs in the '09 FEH over 40mph where EV can begin with >41.9% SoC. Up until now, if battery SoC was below 46% and speed was over 40mph it was rare to see 100% DFSO. We have discovered to trigger 100% DFSO below 46% SoC is to simply tap the brake pedal once lightly. This sends a message to the PCM to go 100% DFSO over 40mph no matter the battery SoC. Any questions, comments or other discoveries?

[Hook686]

...

 

A new technique has just been discovered for DFSO (Fuel-Cut) with a battery SoC less than 46%. DFSO occurs in the '09 FEH over 40mph where EV can begin with >41.9% SoC. Up until now, if battery SoC was below 46% and speed was over 40mph it was rare to see 100% DFSO. We have discovered to trigger 100% DFSO below 46% SoC is to simply tap the brake pedal once lightly. This sends a message to the PCM to go 100% DFSO over 40mph no matter the battery SoC. Any questions, comments or other discoveries?

 

Gary I have gotten ICE shut-off at 40 mph a handful of times, but never over 40 mph. Are you saying you can get ICE shut-off over 40 mph ? If so, how high a mph can that be achieved ? I've gotten the 40 mph situation by tapping the brakes at roughly 40 mph. The ICE shuts off and I remains off until a change in motion is required (hill, stop sign ...). I have not noticed what the SoC was at these times, and I will be watching that now.

 

Thanks for the information.

[GaryG]

Gary I have gotten ICE shut-off at 40 mph a handful of times, but never over 40 mph. Are you saying you can get ICE shut-off over 40 mph ? If so, how high a mph can that be achieved ? I've gotten the 40 mph situation by tapping the brakes at roughly 40 mph. The ICE shuts off and I remains off until a change in motion is required (hill, stop sign ...). I have not noticed what the SoC was at these times, and I will be watching that now.

 

Thanks for the information.

 

If you have the '09 FEH you should be going into EV at 40mph after the engine has warmed up and you battery SoC (state of charge) is above 41.9% just by letting Off the gas pedal. This is the EV (electric motor) mode and RPM goes to zero. Don't mistake DFSO (deceleration fuel shut Off) mode with EV mode. DFSO mode is when the PCM cuts fuel from the engine but maintains RPM idle speed with the electric motors. You are not burning any gas in EV mode or DFSO mode but you can't reapply power in DFSO without the PCM returning fuel to the cylinders. In EV mode you can reapply power without the engine starting to maintain or increase vehicle speed.

[Transpower]

I have to say after one year of service and 12,500 miles my '09 FEH has not needed ANY repairs. This is great because I have all the Limited options and the Nav System. The average tank mileage on the Nav System reads 4% high compare to gas pumped at fill-ups but I've gotten use to the readings and I adjust real mileage averages throughout the tank by subtracting the 4%. The really great benefit is how well the '09 handles E10 gas for much better mileage than my '05 FEH. The '09 FEH is averaging more than 10mpg over my '05 FEH on E10 and now that E10 is mandated in Florida I can't compare straight gas. My lifetime MPG average is now 49.1 and I expect it will grow to around 52mpg by this time next year.

 

A new technique has just been discovered for DFSO (Fuel-Cut) with a battery SoC less than 46%. DFSO occurs in the '09 FEH over 40mph where EV can begin with >41.9% SoC. Up until now, if battery SoC was below 46% and speed was over 40mph it was rare to see 100% DFSO. We have discovered to trigger 100% DFSO below 46% SoC is to simply tap the brake pedal once lightly. This sends a message to the PCM to go 100% DFSO over 40mph no matter the battery SoC. Any questions, comments or other discoveries?

 

 

How in the world can you be getting 49.1 mpg? Anything over 34 mpg for an FEH or MMH is suspect...

[GaryG]

How in the world can you be getting 49.1 mpg? Anything over 34 mpg for an FEH or MMH is suspect...

 

No problem with you asking and I'm getting much better average tanks to have that Lifetime average now. First, I am an experienced driver owner of an '05 FWD FEH which I had a 45mpg Lifetime average on straight gas. I got first place in the MPG Challenge in '07 at Hybridfest and that record has never been broken. The Nav System showed the Max at 60mpg but we later calculated 61.8mpg based on a Scangauge in the vehicle. My '09 FWD FEH gets much better mileage on E10 gas which I used during the '07 MPG Challenge with a friends '05 FEH. Our FEH's are stock with no modifications and I drive with the flow of everyday traffic. It's not one thing but a combination of things that yield this kind of mileage day in and day out. I drive in electric, coast in neutral, use Pulse and Glide and don't accelerate to fast or to slow as a basic strategy. Generally I get 65mpg in the city and 45mpg on the highway in my '09 FEH. Warm-up, stops and bad traffic eat into to my average MPG but that can't be helped.

[Green Lantern]

I got my '09FEH not too long after Gary. I will hit my 12 month anniversary at the end of next month. So far, after 11 months of driving in Kentucky I am averaging just under 32mpg. However, over the past three months I have averaged 34mpg and over the last month I have averaged 36mpg. I too, use a SGII and find the same reading discrepancy between the on board nav system (I have the Limited FEH) and the real mileage from fill ups. I have kept a spreadsheet at home tracking my mileage since pickup and every tank.

 

Admittedly, I am still learing how to properly drive my hybrid but I get better each tank at maximizing my mileage. I am not a hypermiler like Gary nor do I ever think I will be but I still learn from his tips and use them, as appropriate, to help me maximize my mileage. The real gauge of my learning will be seen next spring when I can compare two winters against one another and see how my driving improved. I did a terrible job this past winter and only averaged between 27 and 29 mpg for a couple of months. Now I find myself getting mad if I drive too hard and let my mileage get below 36 mpg. What a short memory I have of getting 20 mpg on my last vehicle.

[GaryG]

I got my '09FEH not too long after Gary. I will hit my 12 month anniversary at the end of next month. So far, after 11 months of driving in Kentucky I am averaging just under 32mpg. However, over the past three months I have averaged 34mpg and over the last month I have averaged 36mpg. I too, use a SGII and find the same reading discrepancy between the on board nav system (I have the Limited FEH) and the real mileage from fill ups. I have kept a spreadsheet at home tracking my mileage since pickup and every tank.

 

Admittedly, I am still learing how to properly drive my hybrid but I get better each tank at maximizing my mileage. I am not a hypermiler like Gary nor do I ever think I will be but I still learn from his tips and use them, as appropriate, to help me maximize my mileage. The real gauge of my learning will be seen next spring when I can compare two winters against one another and see how my driving improved. I did a terrible job this past winter and only averaged between 27 and 29 mpg for a couple of months. Now I find myself getting mad if I drive too hard and let my mileage get below 36 mpg. What a short memory I have of getting 20 mpg on my last vehicle.

 

Your mileage can get much better if you work at it and before long you may get mad when your mileage drops below 50mpg like me.

 

I got hooked on great mileage the first day I drove my new '05 FEH. Ford advertised a 25mph EV speed and I was so happy when I found it could go 30mph plus with less than 15 miles on the OD. I exceeded EPA estimates before I heard the term hypermiler and expected no more than 30mpg when I ordered my first FEH in December '05. Wayne Gerdes just had pushed the Prius to a record 120mpg and he started to help me with P&G. Ray Martin discovered you could drive any speed in "L" gear and from that I discovered and posted "The Low Gear Advantage" (LGA) thread on Greenhybrid.com. Wayne came to Florida and I spent about 4 hours driving with him to and from the 12 hour Sebring Race. I showed him the LGA technique and he showed me other good techniques and then ask me to write "Hypermiling The Ford Escape Hybrid" for his website.

 

Once you learn good driving habits it becomes automatic. I don't like to hold up traffic and don't like drivers holding me back. I could drive like I own the road and get much better mileage but I don't. Once you find the sweet spots for MPG just use them when you're on roads you can. The good part is you can use hypermiler techniques like gliding up to a red light in EV and then pulse back to speed when it turns green and not have to come to a complete stop. Now that you have a SGII learn to accelerate with your Instant MPG gauge. From a stop, instant MPG readings are under 10mpg but as you gain speed 15-20mpg is good till you reach your steady state target.

 

Also, I'm backing off my SGII fuel adjustment from 14.2 because I had Fuel-Cut set to low. I'm at 13.5 now and I think I may even go lower at the next tank fill-up. My fuel-cut is set at 18 now and I'm going to leave it there till I get the right fuel adjustment set.

[SLAPhappy]

Gary, you're doing great. Do you mind posting a link to your hypermiling article? I tried the search function at that site and couldn't find it. thanks!

 

edit: I read the FAQ which had two sections, good mileage and great mileage - is that your article? thanks

Edited July 29, 2009 by slaphappy

[GaryG]

Gary, you're doing great. Do you mind posting a link to your hypermiling article? I tried the search function at that site and couldn't find it. thanks!

 

edit: I read the FAQ which had two sections, good mileage and great mileage - is that your article? thanks

 

The article is on the home page on a list to the right and has GaryG after it. Keep in mind this article applies to the '05 - '08 models and not to the new '09 FEH. Here it is: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350

 

Edit - You must be on the Greenhybrid site, my article is on this site: http://www.cleanmpg.com/

Edited July 29, 2009 by GaryG

[SLAPhappy]

The article is on the home page on a list to the right and has GaryG after it. Keep in mind this article applies to the '05 - '08 models and not to the new '09 FEH. Here it is: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350

 

Edit - You must be on the Greenhybrid site, my article is on this site: http://www.cleanmpg.com/

 

Gary - thanks a bunch - I had been looking on the greenhybrid site.

[allornothing]

Gary, those are great numbers. I've been averaging around 38 during the spring and summer. Last winter I had to work hard to keep it above 30 with the cold.

 

You mentioned L gear, I haven't used mine and was wondering when you use it and how does it help with mileage. There are alot of hills here in pittsburgh and I've been thinking about using L going up to see if it helps with mileage. Your thoughts and ideas would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[GaryG]

Gary, those are great numbers. I've been averaging around 38 during the spring and summer. Last winter I had to work hard to keep it above 30 with the cold.

 

You mentioned L gear, I haven't used mine and was wondering when you use it and how does it help with mileage. There are alot of hills here in pittsburgh and I've been thinking about using L going up to see if it helps with mileage. Your thoughts and ideas would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Ford changed the strategy for the '09 FEH/MMH "L" gear so you no longer need the LGA tricks you need to use in the '05 - '08 FEH models to improve efficiency. The '09 will not go EV in "L" and if you are in EV when you shift to "L" the engine will start-up. If you decelerate in "L" in the '09 you will get engine run-up with 100% fuel-cut. You still can drive at any speed in the '09 like prior models but it is more efficient to drive in "D" and use "N" for coasting when in EV. The '09 FEH does not get the heavy regen in "L" like prior models but you do get 100% regen when applying the brakes before the pads or shoes are used. For this reason, always apply the brakes slowly so you use the traction generator motor (MG2) to charge the battery and save the brake pads and shoes. I still use "L" in my '05 FEH but I find little benefits in "L" in my '09 FEH so I don't bother. The workshop manual says "L" will aid in traction but I have no traction problems here in Florida.

[wptski]

Ford changed the strategy for the '09 FEH/MMH "L" gear so you no longer need the LGA tricks you need to use in the '05 - '08 FEH models to improve efficiency. The '09 will not go EV in "L" and if you are in EV when you shift to "L" the engine will start-up. If you decelerate in "L" in the '09 you will get engine run-up with 100% fuel-cut. You still can drive at any speed in the '09 like prior models but it is more efficient to drive in "D" and use "N" for coasting when in EV. The '09 FEH does not get the heavy regen in "L" like prior models but you do get 100% regen when applying the brakes before the pads or shoes are used. For this reason, always apply the brakes slowly so you use the traction generator motor (MG2) to charge the battery and save the brake pads and shoes. I still use "L" in my '05 FEH but I find little benefits in "L" in my '09 FEH so I don't bother. The workshop manual says "L" will aid in traction but I have no traction problems here in Florida.

Although I don't have a FEH, only a FE the workshop manual covers both, so I've done some reading.

 

The FEH has a pretty fancy electronic monitoring device built into the brake pedal. If calculates by pedal pressure if your going to stop fast enough and if not the ABS system will apply your brake pads. If the ICE is running, engine vacuum is used and if not there is a electric vacuum pump for that. Some seem to think that you can't have regen braking and convential at the same time but the manual seems to cotradict that.

 

Can you tell if regen braking is taking place without having a ScanGuage-II?

[GaryG]

Although I don't have a FEH, only a FE the workshop manual covers both, so I've done some reading.

 

The FEH has a pretty fancy electronic monitoring device built into the brake pedal. If calculates by pedal pressure if your going to stop fast enough and if not the ABS system will apply your brake pads. If the ICE is running, engine vacuum is used and if not there is a electric vacuum pump for that. Some seem to think that you can't have regen braking and convential at the same time but the manual seems to cotradict that.

 

Can you tell if regen braking is taking place without having a ScanGuage-II?

 

All FEH's have a Charge/Assist gauge which means charging and discharging (using the battery to power the motors). The further the Charge needle swings to the left of center the more charge is going to the battery. You don't really know the point that the pads and shoes are applied after regen and that's why I say slowly apply the brake pedal. The traction motor/generator (MG2) is much larger than the motor/generator (MG1) so regenerative braking can really slow the vehicle before the pads and shoes are applied. You can really tell this in the '05 FEH by shifting to "L" during decel where no brake pads are used. In my '05 FEH I only had to use the brake pedal to come to a complete stop or fast stop, so that's why I know how much MG2 can slow the vehicle down before the brake pads are used. Also, because MG2 is much larger than MG1 that uses the engine to charge, regen will put a much faster charge in the battery. You can see all of this by the Charge/Assist needle or the SGII battery SoC X-gauge. If you shift to neutral and apply the brake pedal there is no regen and you are using only the pads and shoes to stop or slowdown. This is why I say always shift back to "D" before applying the brakes.

[scottfisher]

Well I'm still very happy with my results, though way short of what you guys are doing. Vehicle has 14,500 miles on it in 9 months of daily, winter was a killer on mileage but expected.

 

Since May, I think combo of warm weather and a broke in motor, along with full synthetic in the engine has helped alot. Get around 34-36 for my driving, computed with the In dash unit, so I know its about 3 % high.

 

Past weekend, played around some not in a hurry, had about 1.5 hours of some stop and go country-style, roads marked at 45-55 mph.

 

Did max 50, alot of 40-45.................... Ended up with a reading of 42 MPG on the Nav screen.

 

So I'm happy, I used to drive a vehicle that gave me a combined 18 for my typical routes, and have almost doubled that, granted, the 18 was in a Hemi, and this ain't no Hemi.

[GaryG]

Well I'm still very happy with my results, though way short of what you guys are doing. Vehicle has 14,500 miles on it in 9 months of daily, winter was a killer on mileage but expected.

 

Since May, I think combo of warm weather and a broke in motor, along with full synthetic in the engine has helped alot. Get around 34-36 for my driving, computed with the In dash unit, so I know its about 3 % high.

 

Past weekend, played around some not in a hurry, had about 1.5 hours of some stop and go country-style, roads marked at 45-55 mph.

 

Did max 50, alot of 40-45.................... Ended up with a reading of 42 MPG on the Nav screen.

 

So I'm happy, I used to drive a vehicle that gave me a combined 18 for my typical routes, and have almost doubled that, granted, the 18 was in a Hemi, and this ain't no Hemi.

 

The '09 Nav MPG average reads 4% higher than pumped gas averaged over 12 tanks of gas in my '09 FEH. Today, my Nav tank MPG average reads 55.8mpg with about 300 miles in to the tank and I expect to end up with between 51-52mpg pumped gas reading when I fill-up again. This is much better mileage than my '05 FEH ( 42mpg) running E10 in this 92F weather we are having now. This winter here I expect to gets some tanks over 55mpg after complete break-in at 15,000 miles. The coldest it gets here is about 32F and I see a drop in MPG below 38F after a cold morning start. The trick is to make up that drop after the engine and battery warm-up again. For instance, I have a 55.8mpg tank today but as I start the FEH and get moving my MPG average will drop to about 55.3mpg before it starts moving up again. At the end of the day I'll try to park with as close to 55.8mpg on my Nav Sys as possible. I've got about 400 miles left on this tank and chances are that 55.8mpg Nav reading will end up at fill-up to be ~54.4mpg or lower. This past winter I was parking at night with 57.0mpg at a 300 mile tank but held on to a pumped gas tank to 54.2mpg at fill-up. As you can see, I monitor the gas I burn constantly in my FEH which is a hobby now that saves money. When I see my average tank MPG going higher, I feel I won the game that day. Also, when I add my tank fill information to the gas log at cleanmpg.com, I'm seeing my lifetime MPG average grow each tank which is another win. It's pretty neat to see a Ford SUV at 151% (49.3mpg) of the combined EPA rating with over 13,000 lifetime miles. So, I'm happy also!