SCAB

[captamrica]

A million dollar bonus is like spit in the bucket. When the margins start getting smaller and smaller other then squeezing vendors the only other controllable cost is labor. Guess what, the margins are getting smaller.

 

 

As you say, "a million dollar bonus is like spit in a bucket" and "margins are getting smaller". I'm sure this is true. Before we closed our margin on the Explorer, at the end of the line, (each line has a different cost per minute depending on line speed and amount of value added work on that respective line) was between $9,000 and $11,000 per unit profit (net). This varies because of trim level of the unit. The margin for the Aviator was even higher but I can't recall the actual dollar amount.(according to FPS data supplied to us from the plants Comptroller's office)

 

At 60 units per hour (target 52 units) and we ran an actual of 46-55 per hour. Lets look at the smaller of the two.

46x$9,000=$414,000 profit per hour

$414,000x8 hours=$3,312,000 per shift

$3,312,000x2 shifts=$6,624,000 per day net profit

 

(look ma Iz a autoworker and Iz can cipher) :P

 

Of course these numbers represent only units that went straight through and out the door without any repair needed, parts shortage, vendor issues, or anything else that may cause it to be held back from shipping. These numbers also would drop after 8 hours if we were working 10 hour shifts but the margin is still sufficient enough to warrant 10 hours, otherwise why would we work them.

 

So a million dollar bonus is most certainly no more then spit in a bucket. It would represent less then 1/6 of OUR plant's work day building low trim level units on a bad day. Knowing these numbers I find it hard to feel as though we are taking to much water from the well.

 

I agree with you on the issues of unions protecting shitheads, having their own agenda, and futhering their own personal gains. Unions have become as corrupt as the companies they bargain with and our own government officials set that very example as well. These are the sad facts, but where would we be without them? Given the current climate of our society, GREED seems to be the number one vocation in America today. Much like our choices at election time; it is not who is the right canadate, but who is the lesser of two evils.

 

I'm not going to call you names or throw rocks at you. The great thing about our countries (yes, Canada you are included in this) is the freedom to express our opinions openly and the right to disagree with someone elses openly. I do not always agree with you but I am able to remain objective enough to see your side of the arguement. We are just looking at it from opposite sides of the fence and that gives us our unique perspectives.

 

Me, I will continue to back unions and try to cast my vote for officials I think will help futher the cause of the American worker (the little guy). Just like our government; if you do not like them, vote them out and keep doing it until we can find someone who will truely represent us as a whole not themselves.

 

Good luck to you.

[davdog]

As you say, "a million dollar bonus is like spit in a bucket" and "margins are getting smaller". I'm sure this is true. Before we closed our margin on the Explorer, at the end of the line, (each line has a different cost per minute depending on line speed and amount of value added work on that respective line) was between $9,000 and $11,000 per unit profit (net). This varies because of trim level of the unit. The margin for the Aviator was even higher but I can't recall the actual dollar amount.(according to FPS data supplied to us from the plants Comptroller's office)

 

At 60 units per hour (target 52 units) and we ran an actual of 46-55 per hour. Lets look at the smaller of the two.

46x$9,000=$414,000 profit per hour

$414,000x8 hours=$3,312,000 per shift

$3,312,000x2 shifts=$6,624,000 per day net profit

 

(look ma Iz a autoworker and Iz can cipher) :P

 

Of course these numbers represent only units that went straight through and out the door without any repair needed, parts shortage, vendor issues, or anything else that may cause it to be held back from shipping. These numbers also would drop after 8 hours if we were working 10 hour shifts but the margin is still sufficient enough to warrant 10 hours, otherwise why would we work them.

 

So a million dollar bonus is most certainly no more then spit in a bucket. It would represent less then 1/6 of OUR plant's work day building low trim level units on a bad day. Knowing these numbers I find it hard to feel as though we are taking to much water from the well.

 

I agree with you on the issues of unions protecting shitheads, having their own agenda, and futhering their own personal gains. Unions have become as corrupt as the companies they bargain with and our own government officials set that very example as well. These are the sad facts, but where would we be without them? Given the current climate of our society, GREED seems to be the number one vocation in America today. Much like our choices at election time; it is not who is the right canadate, but who is the lesser of two evils.

 

I'm not going to call you names or throw rocks at you. The great thing about our countries (yes, Canada you are included in this) is the freedom to express our opinions openly and the right to disagree with someone elses openly. I do not always agree with you but I am able to remain objective enough to see your side of the arguement. We are just looking at it from opposite sides of the fence and that gives us our unique perspectives.

 

Me, I will continue to back unions and try to cast my vote for officials I think will help futher the cause of the American worker (the little guy). Just like our government; if you do not like them, vote them out and keep doing it until we can find someone who will truely represent us as a whole not themselves.

 

Good luck to you.

 

What a well written reply, but I've come to expect that from you. You're right about both sides of the fence giving a different view, and I'm sure that's what a lot of the differences are. I am anit union because the percentage of shit heads in this world is growing every day. (Perfect straight man set up) I don't want to stand togeather with a bunch of shit heads, it just feels wrong. I have to interview for a bunch of junior tech postions at our company and the type of worker coming in these days just suck, they're watching the clock 4 hours before the end of the day. People with a solid work ethic are hard to find and are valued by an employer. A good employee WILL be treated well by an employer or the employer will end up with a bunch of shit heads who they can't trust to get the job done.

[captamrica]

What a well written reply, but I've come to expect that from you. You're right about both sides of the fence giving a different view, and I'm sure that's what a lot of the differences are. I am anit union because the percentage of shit heads in this world is growing every day. (Perfect straight man set up) I don't want to stand togeather with a bunch of shit heads, it just feels wrong. I have to interview for a bunch of junior tech postions at our company and the type of worker coming in these days just suck, they're watching the clock 4 hours before the end of the day. People with a solid work ethic are hard to find and are valued by an employer. A good employee WILL be treated well by an employer or the employer will end up with a bunch of shit heads who they can't trust to get the job done.

 

 

I could not agree more with the number of shitheads growing everyday. I guess I'm just an old f k but the kids I saw being hired in at my plant all (I should not say all, but the majority) had this same, I should make what you make and not have to work this hard, attitude.

 

I don't know if it is the, what I call, entitlement mentality we have bread into our kids or what. They lack respect for their seniors and think they DESERVE something. If this is a snap shot of our coming generations we are all in trouble. Especially unions, do you think that kid is going to sacrifice something for a retiree, oh hell no! It will be all about them and don't think the company won't capitalize on this attitude.

 

Now I know this is not all, but they sure do out number the ones with a good work ethic. Problem with our industry; we hire in large groups and once they are in, the union is bound by law to represent everyone equally to the best of it's ability. Once again a problem with laws, equal oppourtunity is to prohibit discrimination against race, creed, color, religion, or national origin, not being a shithead or worthless employee.

 

Problem is everytime they try to fire a shithead they get an attorney and usues this law to, in someway, prove discrimination. The Americans with Disabilities Act is another that is being abused by people that this law was not intended for to file discrimination suits against companies for discharging shitheads. With all this it is easier to settle out of court and give them their job back then to fight a lengthy/costly legal battle. This is just not a company problem either, I have seen unions named in these suits for faluire to represent them fairly and/or equally.

 

There is a lot that needs to be changed and it has to happen on more then one front.

[sparks will fly]

What a well written reply, but I've come to expect that from you. You're right about both sides of the fence giving a different view, and I'm sure that's what a lot of the differences are. I am anit union because the percentage of shit heads in this world is growing every day. (Perfect straight man set up) I don't want to stand togeather with a bunch of shit heads, it just feels wrong. I have to interview for a bunch of junior tech postions at our company and the type of worker coming in these days just suck, they're watching the clock 4 hours before the end of the day. People with a solid work ethic are hard to find and are valued by an employer. A good employee WILL be treated well by an employer or the employer will end up with a bunch of shit heads who they can't trust to get the job done.

 

Well I think this thread is finally sinking in. You see the shitheads are also the ones that forget what responcibillties they have on the production level and instead of doing what they are supposed to do they will do anything else. Being an FPS cordinator doesn't make them above the law, these people make more money than the rest of the line workers, do not have to work a job all night, try to do maintance work, and leave early every night. Useally these people were the shitheads that wouldn't come to work before they got this title and became entitled, they think THEY are owed more than the rest. The worst part is these will be the same people that run to the boss like a little kid and tell on someone else. They fell that they are doing the right thing because it is helping THEM not the company mean while most of the other workers don't care for them.

As far as entitlment goes, fighting to keep your job sure doesn't fit the definition does it? I'm fighting to do more work in a safe work place not wondering if someone is trying to "help me out."

[dark270]

If the million is a spit in the bucket than Ford is lying to you and the american public about the troubles they are in. But than again you remind me of them talking out of both sides of your mouth, nothing but shit. They have squeezed the vendors to the point that the products they build are cheap and customers suffer because of this. The white collar segment of Ford at plant level are in no better shape than the hourly as far as job sercurity goes, they can only move so many. But the upper management of this company have a game plan that hepls them and screw everyone else. As far as margins go, the best selling vechicle in the WORLD the F-series truck has more margin in it than any other Ford. Try that math.

 

None of this changes the fact that the younger workforce are like you they just don't get it. Loyality, brotherhood, and cooperation among the hourly seems to get further and further away. Some would rather be scabs, and cry that thier feelings are hurt when called one.

 

 

i feel ya......but i consider myself young...age and sen. but i think we(all uaw) should stand behind the delphi workers..maybe all workers should go out..as a sign of solidarity....DCX/FORD/GM

 

 

i notice the 'dog eat dog' especially in dav dog!!..

LOL

[davdog]

i feel ya......but i consider myself young...age and sen. but i think we(all uaw) should stand behind the delphi workers..maybe all workers should go out..as a sign of solidarity....DCX/FORD/GM

i notice the 'dog eat dog' especially in dav dog!!..

LOL

 

 

So the UAW voted to authorize a strike aginst delphi today. What do you think will be the impact of a strike?

 

 

Will it mean that you will soon be fixing broken desktops for 30k a year?

[dark270]

So the UAW voted to authorize a strike aginst delphi today. What do you think will be the impact of a strike?

Will it mean that you will soon be fixing broken desktops for 30k a year?

 

 

nope....it means we will stand together...and stand up to corporate GREED....something you know nothing about(standing together)...or ever will , let's face it, your just a punk who does whatever is profitable for YOU..not your brother or mother or your neighbor.....

[davdog]

nope....it means we will stand together...and stand up to corporate GREED....something you know nothing about(standing together)...or ever will , let's face it, your just a punk who does whatever is profitable for YOU..not your brother or mother or your neighbor.....

 

 

What a crock. Like you'd give a crap if you didn't work there. Standing up for your brother, bullshit, you're watching out for number one just like everybody else. Let's not paint some glorious picture here.

[RayBarone]

So the UAW voted to authorize a strike aginst delphi today. What do you think will be the impact of a strike?

Will it mean that you will soon be fixing broken desktops for 30k a year?

 

 

Who can trust any vote that the UAW conducts? But this is what the UAW does - create job loss.

 

The whole situation is sad no one wants to be forced to take a pay cut but it beats the alternative of no pay at all.

 

So the UAW voted to authorize a strike aginst delphi today. What do you think will be the impact of a strike?

Will it mean that you will soon be fixing broken desktops for 30k a year?

 

 

Who can trust any vote that the UAW conducts? But this is what the UAW does - create job loss.

 

The whole situation is sad no one wants to be forced to take a pay cut but it beats the alternative of no pay at all.

[DSenstad]

What a crock. Like you'd give a crap if you didn't work there. Standing up for your brother, bullshit, you're watching out for number one just like everybody else. Let's not paint some glorious picture here.

On another forum a guy is always accusing people of crying to the moderaters. I found out the poster who is always crying about it is one who truely is always crting to the moderaters.

 

I guess most people think everyone else is just like they are. Sorry Davdog, some people have better scruples and fortitude. Perhaps you need to spend more time working on aquiring some moral fiber, and less time spread distorted viewpoints.

[dark270]

What a crock. Like you'd give a crap if you didn't work there. Standing up for your brother, bullshit, you're watching out for number one just like everybody else. Let's not paint some glorious picture here.

 

 

you are underestimating the workforce at UAW/FORD/GM/DCX!

 

 

i agree some people dont think that way....i do...and if ythey go out on strike i will volunteer at their plants to help do whatever......maybe just be there.....

how do you think america got started ?? by everyone being selfish ?

or by sticking by your 'brother' ?

go figure...

 

Who can trust any vote that the UAW conducts? But this is what the UAW does - create job loss.

 

The whole situation is sad no one wants to be forced to take a pay cut but it beats the alternative of no pay at all.

Who can trust any vote that the UAW conducts? But this is what the UAW does - create job loss.

 

The whole situation is sad no one wants to be forced to take a pay cut but it beats the alternative of no pay at all.

 

 

a 50% paycut ?? not!!

 

 

i would rather have a different job where we are 'valued' and have delphi/visteon NOT exist in the U.S.!

 

On another forum a guy is always accusing people of crying to the moderaters. I found out the poster who is always crying about it is one who truely is always crting to the moderaters.

 

I guess most people think everyone else is just like they are. Sorry Davdog, some people have better scruples and fortitude. Perhaps you need to spend more time working on aquiring some moral fiber, and less time spread distorted viewpoints.

 

 

interesting! what other forum ?

 

same dude ?

[davdog]

you are underestimating the workforce at UAW/FORD/GM/DCX!

i agree some people dont think that way....i do...and if ythey go out on strike i will volunteer at their plants to help do whatever......maybe just be there.....

how do you think america got started ?? by everyone being selfish ?

or by sticking by your 'brother' ?

go figure...

a 50% paycut ?? not!!

i would rather have a different job where we are 'valued' and have delphi/visteon NOT exist in the U.S.!

interesting! what other forum ?

 

same dude ?

 

 

No way, I wouldn't cry to anybody about anything on a message board. I may be a lot of things but I'm not some kind of pussy.

 

You stand togeather because your strength comes from being a group. There aren't unionized IT guys, or if there are there are very few so we stand alone. I prefer to stand alone. Moral fibre does not come from being in a union. I take care of my own business, that is what a respectable person is supposed to do either alone or in a group.

 

If the union does drive delphi/visteon out of business in the US you can bet there won't be any replacement companies coming into the area to fill their spot. Businesses also tend to stick togeather and if you fuck over one of them don't expect other companies to come into an area where unions are prevalent. You take away the major parts suppliers from the area and it makes sense that the assembly plants will start to follow. I don't see how the fuck this can turn out to be a winning situation for anyone involved, and once the uaw does use the strike card to shut down delphi they've played out their hand, you shut a company down aint nobody gonna want to play with you any more.

[sparks will fly]

No way, I wouldn't cry to anybody about anything on a message board. I may be a lot of things but I'm not some kind of pussy.

 

You stand togeather because your strength comes from being a group. There aren't unionized IT guys, or if there are there are very few so we stand alone. I prefer to stand alone. Moral fibre does not come from being in a union. I take care of my own business, that is what a respectable person is supposed to do either alone or in a group.

 

If the union does drive delphi/visteon out of business in the US you can bet there won't be any replacement companies coming into the area to fill their spot. Businesses also tend to stick togeather and if you fuck over one of them don't expect other companies to come into an area where unions are prevalent. You take away the major parts suppliers from the area and it makes sense that the assembly plants will start to follow. I don't see how the fuck this can turn out to be a winning situation for anyone involved, and once the uaw does use the strike card to shut down delphi they've played out their hand, you shut a company down aint nobody gonna want to play with you any more.

 

You are right moral fiber comes from within, you need to take a look at yourself and wonder why you hate unions so much. Maybe it is your inner child speaking out from being the kid never picked to be on the best team on the playground.

[davdog]

You are right moral fiber comes from within, you need to take a look at yourself and wonder why you hate unions so much. Maybe it is your inner child speaking out from being the kid never picked to be on the best team on the playground.

 

 

I dislike unions for a couple of reasons; number one is that they take from the rich to give to the poor, in my own way that means they force the good workers to carry the weak ones.

 

number two is pretty evident; In the long run they fail, and in the process of failing they rake a whole bunch of people over the coals.

[RayBarone]

a 50% paycut ?? not!!

i would rather have a different job where we are 'valued' and have delphi/visteon NOT exist in the U.S.!

interesting! what other forum ?

 

Don't worry whenever you get another job it will most likely be a pay cut. Valued? Most employers do not value anyone, they need people to come to work and actually work.

 

No jobs paying what Ford pays in the Atlanta or Norfolk areas. There are some jobs that will provide benefits but the pay, if lucky will begin at $13.00 and hour and go up to $18.00. Also when the plants shut down many will be applying for these jobs and only the best will get one.

 

How many at Atlanta and Norfolk would take a pay cut rather than have to now be job hunting at 35 & 40 years old with kids in high school ready to go to college?

 

The UAW has NOT provided job security.

[Harry Bennet]

i feel ya......but i consider myself young...age and sen. but i think we(all uaw) should stand behind the delphi workers..maybe all workers should go out..as a sign of solidarity....DCX/FORD/GM

i notice the 'dog eat dog' especially in dav dog!!..

LOL

WoW!

let's say all DCX/FORD/GM UAW does strike with Delphi, that would be considered 'wildcat'

Can you explain how this would help the UAW at DELPHI?

Now if the UAW votes DCX/FORD/GM wide for a strike it makes the UAW look like a Monoply and most likely get the Delphi contracts thrown out

That idea is like: say I did not pay the gas bill but paid all the others, should the electricity, phone, cable, and garbage pick-up stop too, until I pay the gas bill?

Would the DCX/FORD/GM strike continue until the Delphi matter was resolved?

There are other UAW units on strike right now, should we strike the whole UAW until these strikes are resolved?

or they don't count because they are small little units?

[dark270]

Don't worry whenever you get another job it will most likely be a pay cut. Valued? Most employers do not value anyone, they need people to come to work and actually work.

 

No jobs paying what Ford pays in the Atlanta or Norfolk areas. There are some jobs that will provide benefits but the pay, if lucky will begin at $13.00 and hour and go up to $18.00. Also when the plants shut down many will be applying for these jobs and only the best will get one.

 

How many at Atlanta and Norfolk would take a pay cut rather than have to now be job hunting at 35 & 40 years old with kids in high school ready to go to college?

 

The UAW has NOT provided job security.

 

 

the UAW HAS NOT SAID IT WOULD BE A JOB FOR LIFE ??? dude where the fuck did you get that??

i would rather take a different job at 13$ then know i tucked my balls in and TOOK it in the ASS and did not stand up for what i believe...

ford/gm have sold you a LIE and you are believing it! why dont execs. cut their own pay first ??

 

a few have ohters have more benefits....what gives ?? if they were really hurting they would not be doing this!!

 

 

you just sound so bitter...against unions.....

i dont know why..maybe you felt wrong in the past.....go get a counsler!

 

 

WoW!

let's say all DCX/FORD/GM UAW does strike with Delphi, that would be considered 'wildcat'

Can you explain how this would help the UAW at DELPHI?

Now if the UAW votes DCX/FORD/GM wide for a strike it makes the UAW look like a Monoply and most likely get the Delphi contracts thrown out

That idea is like: say I did not pay the gas bill but paid all the others, should the electricity, phone, cable, and garbage pick-up stop too, until I pay the gas bill?

Would the DCX/FORD/GM strike continue until the Delphi matter was resolved?

There are other UAW units on strike right now, should we strike the whole UAW until these strikes are resolved?

or they don't count because they are small little units?

 

 

no first it is only considered wildcat if the UAW leadership does not sanction it.plus there are 'reason' put in the contract to be considered 'strikable' health and safety issues etc.....

 

AGAIN it wont HELP delphi...i am not a company man never will be...BUT it will be a STAND against a sworn ENEMY(steve miller) based on 'delphi' not giving us/public enough REASONS to cut our wages/bens. while boosting execs. pay!!!

 

i've always believed in standing together....otherwise you fall!

 

if you dont stand for something, you will fall for anything!

 

 

third,

maybe it would show resolve if everyone went out ?

[sparks will fly]

I dislike unions for a couple of reasons; number one is that they take from the rich to give to the poor, in my own way that means they force the good workers to carry the weak ones.

 

number two is pretty evident; In the long run they fail, and in the process of failing they rake a whole bunch of people over the coals.

 

More like they keep the rich honest and keep a middle class. Percentages say IT is no different than UAW or constuction or any other job where thousands of people work. Weak is weak and the strong carry them. It doesn't matter if it is the bosses kid or some little hottie in the office that they keep around for eye candy, it happens.

 

If being around since 1891 is a failure then please contact th I.B.E.W. NOW. It is hard to believe that with what you are saying that they are still around. Local #1 is in St. Louis Mo. and was formed in 1891 to keep labor fair and SAFETY was the top priority. Of course if IT had an union you would have to take a cut in pay to be EQUAL with others in your field, if they haven't shipped your job to India by then.

[davdog]

More like they keep the rich honest and keep a middle class. Percentages say IT is no different than UAW or constuction or any other job where thousands of people work. Weak is weak and the strong carry them. It doesn't matter if it is the bosses kid or some little hottie in the office that they keep around for eye candy, it happens.

 

If being around since 1891 is a failure then please contact th I.B.E.W. NOW. It is hard to believe that with what you are saying that they are still around. Local #1 is in St. Louis Mo. and was formed in 1891 to keep labor fair and SAFETY was the top priority. Of course if IT had an union you would have to take a cut in pay to be EQUAL with others in your field, if they haven't shipped your job to India by then.

 

The population of the middle class changes, and changing it is. There are not many, if any, other manufacturing jobs out there that pay a person enough to be in the middle class.

 

There is much less carrying of the weak in the IT field. We, as I'm sure is the same for you, don't have the time to be picking up the slack for someone else, we have enough to do ourselves. I see a few fuck offs getting canned every year just from my company.

 

I WISH there was eye candy in the IT field, but the percentage of females is very small.

 

Unions worked when they controlled the entire industry they were associated with, otherwise they are just a detriment to the companies saddled with the work rules and pay scales that come with them. You can't have half an industry unionized and the other half not, it just won't work and it isn't.

 

Bullshit if anyone in IT is every going to have to play that "equal" game. You want equal then get to the same skill level as the person you want to be equal too, not just the same number of years in the IT field as the person you want to be equal too. Basing everything on seniority is wrong.

 

You're right a lot of IT gigs have left the country, but to date they haven't figured out a way for someone to touch the hardware remotely, so for now we're safe. You may say they'll ship the hardware off to but how many companies do you think want to have their data stored in countries like India and Pakistan? As a matter of fact, in the EU all financial related data for all companies must stay in the EU and the same principals are practiced here.

 

Your unions failed you when they do not put on an all out show of force when foriegn auto compnaies started setting up shop here in "right to work" states. The money they dumped into blindly supporting the democratic party should have gone into all out efforts to unionize those shops. It's too late now as how many of those shops are going to join you now that they see the situation that you are in due to your union.

[captamrica]

The population of the middle class changes, and changing it is. There are not many, if any, other manufacturing jobs out there that pay a person enough to be in the middle class.

 

There is much less carrying of the weak in the IT field. We, as I'm sure is the same for you, don't have the time to be picking up the slack for someone else, we have enough to do ourselves. I see a few fuck offs getting canned every year just from my company.

 

I WISH there was eye candy in the IT field, but the percentage of females is very small.

 

Unions worked when they controlled the entire industry they were associated with, otherwise they are just a detriment to the companies saddled with the work rules and pay scales that come with them. You can't have half an industry unionized and the other half not, it just won't work and it isn't.

 

Bullshit if anyone in IT is every going to have to play that "equal" game. You want equal then get to the same skill level as the person you want to be equal too, not just the same number of years in the IT field as the person you want to be equal too. Basing everything on seniority is wrong.

 

You're right a lot of IT gigs have left the country, but to date they haven't figured out a way for someone to touch the hardware remotely, so for now we're safe. You may say they'll ship the hardware off to but how many companies do you think want to have their data stored in countries like India and Pakistan? As a matter of fact, in the EU all financial related data for all companies must stay in the EU and the same principals are practiced here.

 

Your unions failed you when they do not put on an all out show of force when foriegn auto compnaies started setting up shop here in "right to work" states. The money they dumped into blindly supporting the democratic party should have gone into all out efforts to unionize those shops. It's too late now as how many of those shops are going to join you now that they see the situation that you are in due to your union.

 

 

Not to pop your bubble or try to insinuate you're job is leaving the country but I was reading an article (Time or Newsweek) about data bases being stored in other countries, specifically India, Pakistan, and Mexico.

 

I am not able to quote or even be postive about the specifics, since it did not directly affect my job, although it may have other consquences for me if I'm part of that data base. This was one of the issues addressed in this article, our financial and personal information being handled by foreign countries. Apparently there is no specific law that prohibits this practice and has raised some concerns with some government officials.

 

I want to say the trucking industry (leasing) is the one leading the charge on this practice. The billing and financial data is handled by a company in India and the maintenace data is being handled in Mexico. Both of these companies enter all the data in to their respective data bases which are accessed remotely from the parent US based company, where the trucks are physically located. All the data is physically stored in the hardware in these countries where their IT personnel maintain the equipment.

 

I do not know if you have heard about any of this (rumored or otherwise) but I thought you might like to know. Remember the EU has always been a little more protectionist then the US when it comes to businesses and it's people. FYI

[davdog]

Not to pop your bubble or try to insinuate you're job is leaving the country but I was reading an article (Time or Newsweek) about data bases being stored in other countries, specifically India, Pakistan, and Mexico.

 

I am not able to quote or even be postive about the specifics, since it did not directly affect my job, although it may have other consquences for me if I'm part of that data base. This was one of the issues addressed in this article, our financial and personal information being handled by foreign countries. Apparently there is no specific law that prohibits this practice and has raised some concerns with some government officials.

 

I want to say the trucking industry (leasing) is the one leading the charge on this practice. The billing and financial data is handled by a company in India and the maintenace data is being handled in Mexico. Both of these companies enter all the data in to their respective data bases which are accessed remotely from the parent US based company, where the trucks are physically located. All the data is physically stored in the hardware in these countries where their IT personnel maintain the equipment.

 

I do not know if you have heard about any of this (rumored or otherwise) but I thought you might like to know. Remember the EU has always been a little more protectionist then the US when it comes to businesses and it's people. FYI

 

No doubt data is stored elsewhere, but at this point there isn't a real cost savings because companies are still looking for high availability for their data and high availability costs coin. Dual ISPs, redundant hardware all the way back to the db server, ect.... The recent Internet outage in pakistan exhibits why folks with half a brain don't want to presently store their data their. More then a third of the country was without internet connectivity for miltiple weeks. I do side work for a couple of on-line gambling sites which are both hosted in other countries as it is illegal to host a site in the US. One is hosted in Curacao and the other in costa rica, other then a trip down when a hardware refresh is needed I do all the administration remotely. I expect most IT jobs will be worked from home in the not to distant future. It's cheaper to store a companies servers in some storage facility in the US boonies then it is to use up expensive real estate in the cities.

 

This all doesn't mean I can't get whacked tomorrow.

 

I've worked for a lot of different companies in this industry since '87. You get used to moving around and you get good at the process. You keep your resume updated and available on line and your skill set up to date. I'll tell you, it's easier to bounce from job to job then it is to stay with one company for a long time. People who've been in the same job for many years are afraid of the unknown, those of us who bounce from job to job are used to it.

[captamrica]

I've worked for a lot of different companies in this industry since '87. You get used to moving around and you get good at the process. You keep your resume updated and available on line and your skill set up to date. I'll tell you, it's easier to bounce from job to job then it is to stay with one company for a long time. People who've been in the same job for many years are afraid of the unknown, those of us who bounce from job to job are used to it.

 

 

I don't think it is fear as much as it is being unprepared. As you stated about how you keep your resume and skill set up to date and get good at moving from job to job. You have tailored you're life around this constant and as you stated, you are used to it.

 

I'll admitt I have a certain amount of fear involved in my sitiuation and some of that is because of my lack of preparedness, but mostly because of the industry I chose. Not to mention all the things I have going that are exclusive to my life, that I have metioned previously in this and other threads. It is these things that the fear is generated from. As well as a certain amount of anger towards the company for chopping us, but it had to happen to someone.

 

I realize this is just semantics and I'm splitting hairs but it is what opinions are formed from. I sincerely hope that you're job does not go oversees, hell I hope nobody's job leaves but GREED has a way of blinding people even with half a brain.

 

The recent spotlight on new IT graduates going to India for a few years to gain experience is frightening. According to NBC the number is projected to be 3000 by the end of 2006 and India based companies are on college campuses recruiting them. I find this disturbing and I'm not even in this field and because of this movement I have no plans to try to enter it. I am viewing it much as I view the manufacturing industry. No disrespect intended.

Edited May 18, 2006 by Captamrica

[sparks will fly]

The population of the middle class changes, and changing it is. There are not many, if any, other manufacturing jobs out there that pay a person enough to be in the middle class.

 

There is much less carrying of the weak in the IT field. We, as I'm sure is the same for you, don't have the time to be picking up the slack for someone else, we have enough to do ourselves. I see a few fuck offs getting canned every year just from my company.

 

I WISH there was eye candy in the IT field, but the percentage of females is very small.

 

Unions worked when they controlled the entire industry they were associated with, otherwise they are just a detriment to the companies saddled with the work rules and pay scales that come with them. You can't have half an industry unionized and the other half not, it just won't work and it isn't.

 

Bullshit if anyone in IT is every going to have to play that "equal" game. You want equal then get to the same skill level as the person you want to be equal too, not just the same number of years in the IT field as the person you want to be equal too. Basing everything on seniority is wrong.

 

You're right a lot of IT gigs have left the country, but to date they haven't figured out a way for someone to touch the hardware remotely, so for now we're safe. You may say they'll ship the hardware off to but how many companies do you think want to have their data stored in countries like India and Pakistan? As a matter of fact, in the EU all financial related data for all companies must stay in the EU and the same principals are practiced here.

 

Your unions failed you when they do not put on an all out show of force when foriegn auto compnaies started setting up shop here in "right to work" states. The money they dumped into blindly supporting the democratic party should have gone into all out efforts to unionize those shops. It's too late now as how many of those shops are going to join you now that they see the situation that you are in due to your union.

 

 

Everytime I think I will let you off the hook with a post I agree with, you seem to finish it off with one line of total crap or a bash that is uncalled for. The union it not the only reason let alone the primary reason Ford or GM are in the shape they are in today. Sure they might be part of the problem but until you are on the inside looking out, your view is distorted. I have had times where I have been proud to say I worked at Ford, but lately it is not as strong faith as before.

 

What has changed from the glory days? not the hourly workforce, sure somewhat younger in some areas, night shift mostly. But with 5 years senority about the lowest in the plant most have figured it out by now.

The moral is at an all time low with the company playing plant against plant. Managment really in another world either scared about thier job or trying so hard to impress that they would sell out thier mother to stay around. Parts from vendors seems cheaper and cheaper making the overall quality of the product will build not what the customer wants. Maintance that is run be production intsead of maintance, lack of parts, planning, and respociblity to take care of the older equipment in the plants. Then it is the scabs that undermine anyone for what they think is for the good of the company, playing right into the hands of Fords big picture. When the scabs figure out what the company is really asking of them, being totlally overloaded it will be to late, no one will listen or care.

[dark270]

Everytime I think I will let you off the hook with a post I agree with, you seem to finish it off with one line of total crap or a bash that is uncalled for. The union it not the only reason let alone the primary reason Ford or GM are in the shape they are in today. Sure they might be part of the problem but until you are on the inside looking out, your view is distorted. I have had times where I have been proud to say I worked at Ford, but lately it is not as strong faith as before.

 

What has changed from the glory days? not the hourly workforce, sure somewhat younger in some areas, night shift mostly. But with 5 years senority about the lowest in the plant most have figured it out by now.

The moral is at an all time low with the company playing plant against plant. Managment really in another world either scared about thier job or trying so hard to impress that they would sell out thier mother to stay around. Parts from vendors seems cheaper and cheaper making the overall quality of the product will build not what the customer wants. Maintance that is run be production intsead of maintance, lack of parts, planning, and respociblity to take care of the older equipment in the plants. Then it is the scabs that undermine anyone for what they think is for the good of the company, playing right into the hands of Fords big picture. When the scabs figure out what the company is really asking of them, being totlally overloaded it will be to late, no one will listen or care.

 

 

 

so true.....

[DSenstad]

You're right a lot of IT gigs have left the country, but to date they haven't figured out a way for someone to touch the hardware remotely, so for now we're safe. You may say they'll ship the hardware off to but how many companies do you think want to have their data stored in countries like India and Pakistan? As a matter of fact, in the EU all financial related data for all companies must stay in the EU and the same principals are practiced here.

Check it out, this guy is a protectionist.... or is here just a protectionist when it is related to him? Like I said, he believes everyone is dog eat dog, screw you mother because he is. I think he said as much when he states that it hasn't affected him yet since it hasn't hit hardware.