macattak1 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 It would be real nice if it didn't cost everyone, businesses included, and arm-and-a-leg. Over $15 grand a year is ridiculous. Are you saying, that the best coverage you can get for you and your wife costs ~$27,000+ a year, and it is not anywhere near as good as your employers, but that only cost them ~$15,000 a year? Is that what you are paying? Perhaps you have not found the best pricing tools, strategies, groups, partners, etc.??? Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 It would be real nice if it didn't cost everyone, businesses included, and arm-and-a-leg. Over $15 grand a year is ridiculous. You do know that with Fed HC, there is still a cost, right? Its not actually free. It still must be paid. And it wont be cheaper per person. The main reason it is as expensive as it is now is due to federal involvement. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Yeah. it'd be nice if someone would pay my power bill....in the summer it's over $300. a month.....please tell me who you want to pay for it...... I would like a John Deere X520! I have .6 acres and it is a bummer doing it with a push mower. Its just not fair. Its hot out there and takes me like two and a half hours to mow it! I can't afford the electricity, so the windows get opened early and closed late! And they need replacing too! How am I supposed to afford $20,000 for new windows?!!!? Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Spare me the bullshit sarcasm. $15 grand a year, per employee with a family is triple what it was ten years ago, when Michigan's GOP governor and legislature promised us that tort reform would hold down the growth in health insurance premiums. It didn't even slow them down, and tort reform is alive and well in this state, including big limits on pain-and-suffering. So that should tell you it is not Tort reform that is going to be the big cost in health care. The high cost is attributed to the Federal involvement. Period. Plane and simple. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I don't want anyone, or any business, to be paying $15,000 a year for health insurance. That's my answer, take it or leave it. Make it reasonably affordable. Are you not employed? If not, then there is no "reasonably affordable" is there? If you are, then what is the problem? If you are self employed, go work for someone else. You give up something and get something. Your choice. If you don't like these options I am not sure what to tell you other then welcome to how the other 90% of us live. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I would like a John Deere X520! I have .6 acres and it is a bummer doing it with a push mower. Its just not fair. Its hot out there and takes me like two and a half hours to mow it! I can't afford the electricity, so the windows get opened early and closed late! And they need replacing too! How am I supposed to afford $20,000 for new windows?!!!? Peace and Blessings Check with yourCongressman, I'm sure there's something in the stimulus bill help with the "farm chores".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Are you not employed? If not, then there is no "reasonably affordable" is there? If you are, then what is the problem? If you are self employed, go work for someone else. You give up something and get something. Your choice. If you don't like these options I am not sure what to tell you other then welcome to how the other 90% of us live. Peace and Blessings I think he expects "someone else" (read taxpayers) to bail him out.....he just won't come out and say it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 What do you want...someone to GIVE you insurance...... this from the Jimma Hoffa worshipping Mofo that pissed and moaned how Ford OWED him a job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 That surprises me. Michigan has a long history of ticket splitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) Wow. You really are angry. That's OK. A lot of people are. Just one question. Should your anger/attitude be excused because you are a liberal while the angry conservative is intolerant and inexcusable? And I think that is put nicer then you have ever labeled the right. If one is single, and in good health, poor, and can only afford break your leg insurance; $200 or so a month is not bad. Personally, I would only hope to be on that for a very short while as I look for work. It is clearly not permanent. It is temporary. However, I have a friend that pays about that and has for the longest time because that is all she can afford. Better then loosing your house. Peace and Blessings Yes, I am angry, and it's been building for a long time. And yes, I lean more liberal than anything else, and I make no apologies for it. Used to be a die hard conservative - until I got burned by the very conservative ideals I supported. Are you saying, that the best coverage you can get for you and your wife costs ~$27,000+ a year, and it is not anywhere near as good as your employers, but that only cost them ~$15,000 a year? Is that what you are paying? Perhaps you have not found the best pricing tools, strategies, groups, partners, etc.??? Peace and Blessings Where the heck did you get $27K a year? $1298 a month when the COBRA subsidy runs out, works out to $15576 a year - that's for the family plan. Best price I can find, for equivalent coverage is only a few dollars less. You do know that with Fed HC, there is still a cost, right? Its not actually free. It still must be paid. And it wont be cheaper per person. The main reason it is as expensive as it is now is due to federal involvement. Peace and Blessings Yes, I'm aware of that. The question is how much it's going to be priced at. So that should tell you it is not Tort reform that is going to be the big cost in health care. The high cost is attributed to the Federal involvement. Period. Plane and simple. Peace and Blessings Then why in heavens name does the political right harp on endlessly about tort reform as a way of holding down medical costs (which it has NOT done in Michigan, in the least - our rates have been rising at low double digit percentages a year as bad as the rest of the country). I'll tell you what they did in Michigan, as apart of tort reform (which I did fully support under Republican Governor John Engler, and I now no longer support in any way, shape or form). They changed the statue of limitations on suing for slander, from two years after date of discovery, to one year after date of occurence. Short version of the story is that I didn't find out that a former employer burned me with all of their suppliers (bad mouthed me after I left for a better paying job, and they, the former employer, lost all of my old business) so bad, that none of those suppliers would hire me as the regional sales rep, for fear that my former employer would retaliate and drop them s a supplier. All of these former suppliers offered to testify if I sued my former employer. Problem was, as the lawyers all informed me, is that since I found about it a year and a half after the bad mouthing had occurred, I was "time blocked" from filing a law suit. Doesn't matter that conservative bastards the torpedoed my career. And I have never been able to recover from that. Are you not employed? If not, then there is no "reasonably affordable" is there? If you are, then what is the problem? If you are self employed, go work for someone else. You give up something and get something. Your choice. If you don't like these options I am not sure what to tell you other then welcome to how the other 90% of us live. Peace and Blessings Been laid off for two years now, with only a couple of very short term positions in between. Michigan's unemployment rate is somewhere around 19% - that's almost one out of every five people. Been doing some free lance work on the side, but it hardly pays the bills. I think he expects "someone else" (read taxpayers) to bail him out.....he just won't come out and say it.... We have received some taxpayer help in the form of the COBRA subsidy, and it has been a help. Indefinite help? I don't expect that. What I expect is that when I am fortunate enough to land an interview, that one of the first two questions out of the interviews mouth isn't "How old are you? You don't need health insurance, do you?" And if I expect government help, then I'm justified in wanting it, especially in lieu of the opportunity to try and obtain justice for what was done to me. Napfirst, if you want to find fault with that, go ahead. I see you're back to trying to bait me anyway, something you completely stopped doing for a while. So knock yourself out. Bait away. I really don't care. Edited September 14, 2009 by Len_A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 this from the Jimma Hoffa worshipping Mofo that pissed and moaned how Ford OWED him a job I don't know what he expects. He's back to baiting me with snide comments, for some reason I don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 this from the Jimma Hoffa worshipping Mofo that pissed and moaned how Ford OWED him a job Please show me the post where I ever said anyone owed me anything......Hoffa was a criminal......you have me confused with someone you hate.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Yes, I am angry, and it's been building for a long time. And yes, I lean more liberal than anything else, and I make no apologies for it. Used to be a die hard conservative - until I got burned by the very conservative ideals I supported. OK. I can understand anger. But, Len. You life is no more difficult then anyone else. Period. And I mean that kindly and truthfully. I would change places with you in a heart beat if all I had to worry about was being unemployed and poor and meeting the bills and going with out Ins, etc. But I don't know the rest of your story and you know none of mine. And anger just starts to eat at you after such a short period of time. It validates the hatred, attitude, depression, sense of unfairness, etc. that we can all have, but that does nothing for us. You want Justice. But you are stuck at justifying your actions, anger, hate, etc. That is a dead end road. Your anger tells me that you think you do not deserve what has happened to you. I am sorry to say, that this is an unscripted life and God tells me that we all deserve what we get and 1000 times more, but that He holds back the flood gates that would be upon us if He did not restrain evil men from doing their hearts content. It could be so much worse! I think you do need to apologize. That might be the first step in helping yourself. Apologize to yourself and your spouse. Forgive yourself and ask for that forgiveness from your spouse. Cry a little or a lot. Let your flood gates go. Perhaps your anger and attitude are holding you back? They can't be doing anything for your relationships. Where the heck did you get $27K a year? $1298 a month when the COBRA subsidy runs out, works out to $15576 a year - that's for the family plan. Best price I can find, for equivalent coverage is only a few dollars less. Because I am a little stupid? LOL! I was thinking I had to add your two numbers together. Doh! Yes, I'm aware of that. The question is how much it's going to be priced at. Then why in heavens name does the political right harp on endlessly about tort reform as a way of holding down medical costs (which it has NOT done in Michigan, in the least - our rates have been rising at low double digit percentages a year as bad as the rest of the country). I'll tell you what they did in Michigan, as apart of tort reform (which I did fully support under Republican Governor John Engler, and I now no longer support in any way, shape or form). They changed the statue of limitations on suing for slander, from two years after date of discovery, to one year after date of discovery. Short version of the story is that I didn't find out that a former employer burned me with all of their suppliers (bad mouthed me after I left for a better paying job, and they, the former employer, lost all of my old business) so bad, that none of those suppliers would hire me as the regional sales rep, for fear that my former employer would retaliate and drop them s a supplier. All of these former suppliers offered to testify if I sued my former employer. Problem was, as the lawyers all informed me, is that since I found about it a year and a half after the bad mouthing had occurred, I was "time blocked" from filing a law suit. Doesn't matter that conservative bastards the torpedoed my career. And I have never been able to recover from that. You can't blame it just on the left or just on the right. CA is far left and they have tort reform and want more. The #1 problem for the cost of HC ins. is that the feds put their hands in it in the first place years ago. 30 years ago my parents were poor. But when I broke my leg, I went to the doctor, they made payments, and it was payed off shortly because it was not so expensive. How the Feds caused it to become so expensive is an encyclopedia in itself. Probably the second major reason is that we do not have enough GPs. We need a certain %. I forget where that is. But somewhere around 45% of all Drs need to be GPs. We have about 32% or so. In stead of a trillion $'s how much would it cost to pay for the college tuition of any Dr that stays Gen Med? That would be in the single billion $ range and it would have the quickest, largest, and cheapest single impact on HC costs and quality and availability. Then we go to work on the AMA and Big Pharmas. We bring back old style cures that would provide as good or better solutions to problems with out causing MRSA and now the new Super MRSA infections coming out. We tackle some companies and doctors that Rx for everything. Been laid off for two years now, with only a couple of very short term positions in between. Michigan's unemployment rate is somewhere around 19% - that's almost one out of every five people. Been doing some free lance work on the side, but it hardly pays the bills. Been there. I was in Yuba City Ca in the 90's when it was 18%. I know what being $200 short each month with absolutely nothing to cut out of the budget because your eating PBJ two meals a day. Perhaps your short term employers do not see your negativity. But perhaps they feel it. It is not too hard to feel the most burdened person in the room. You don't want to be that way at work. It is not a selling point. We have received some taxpayer help in the form of the COBRA subsidy, and it has been a help. Indefinite help? I don't expect that. What I expect is that when I am fortunate enough to land an interview, that one of the first two questions out of the interviews mouth isn't "How old are you? You don't need health insurance, do you?" How old are you? If you are over 40, then you are a protected class. If that is the first thing they are asking you, then they are not the type of place I would want to be working at in the first place. Perhaps you are just as blessed not to have gotten some of these jobs? I know that is a difficult view. But in the right frame of mind one could admit that. If you can not, then perhaps that is another pointer that you need to fix the inside you before you can fix the outside you? And if I expect government help, then I'm justified in wanting it, especially in lieu of the opportunity to try and obtain justice for what was done to me. Napfirst, if you want to find fault with that, go ahead. I see you're back to trying to bait me anyway, something you completely stopped doing for a while. So knock yourself out. Bait away. I really don't care. What was done to you? I bet I can beat it 10 times over. But then again. Perhaps not. However, there are very few people that have gone through what I have. I could be angry, frustrated, and seeking revenge, justification, or a fix for the rest of my life. I would die a very unhappy man because there is no fix for it. Period. But I don't want to live like that. Justice is something given to you. You can not take it. You can not strong arm it. If you have to do that, it may sound like justice, but it is not justice. True justice would be to have never had what happened to you occur in the first place. That is the only real justice. And none of us are going to get that. Chasing after justice will eat you from the inside out, and can make you rotten to the core. The best justice you can hope for on this earth is not from the courts and not even from those that did something to you. It comes from inside you. Forgiving yourself for every step up till and post the challenge and then moving on. You can't get it from outside. Not money, not an apology, not tears, no sacrifice, nothing will get you justice that will make you feel good. Only you can do that Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) Duplicate post deleted. Somedays, computers drive me crazy. Edited September 14, 2009 by Len_A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_A Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 What was done to you? I bet I can beat it 10 times over. But then again. Perhaps not. However, there are very few people that have gone through what I have. I could be angry, frustrated, and seeking revenge, justification, or a fix for the rest of my life. I would die a very unhappy man because there is no fix for it. Period. But I don't want to live like that. Justice is something given to you. You can not take it. You can not strong arm it. If you have to do that, it may sound like justice, but it is not justice. True justice would be to have never had what happened to you occur in the first place. That is the only real justice. And none of us are going to get that. Chasing after justice will eat you from the inside out, and can make you rotten to the core. The best justice you can hope for on this earth is not from the courts and not even from those that did something to you. It comes from inside you. Forgiving yourself for every step up till and post the challenge and then moving on. You can't get it from outside. Not money, not an apology, not tears, no sacrifice, nothing will get you justice that will make you feel good. Only you can do that Peace and Blessings I am over 40, by ten years at the end of this month - the big 5-0. I've been to a couple of lawyers. My wife was a paralegal, so luckily for me, she knows a few. Comes down to one big thing. I have to prove they said it. I haven't received a lot of encouragement from the legal community to pursue it, but it isn't a dead matter by any stretch. As to what was done for me, you may have missed it - Short version of the story is that I didn't find out that a former employer burned me with all of their suppliers (bad mouthed me after I left for a better paying job, and they, the former employer, lost all of my old business) so bad, that none of those suppliers would hire me as the regional sales rep, for fear that my former employer would retaliate and drop them s a supplier. All of these former suppliers offered to testify if I sued my former employer. Problem was, as the lawyers all informed me, is that since I found about it a year and a half after the bad mouthing had occurred, I was "time blocked" from filing a law suit. They changed the statue of limitations on suing for slander, from two years after date of discovery, to one year after date of occurrence. Doesn't matter that conservative bastards the torpedoed my career. And, like I said before, I've never been able to completely recover from that financially. Eleven, almost twelve years of working hard, and establishing a good reputation with the customers, and I can't practice my trade because someone had to slander em, and then hide behind tort reform to escape facing their day in front of a jury of their neighbors, not mine. Prior to the tort reform that Michigan passed, these guys were successfully sued by two other former employees, three to five years earlier, for the same thing, and they lost big. While I worked for them, they routinely ripped on former employees. You would think successful business people could manage to continue to be successful without tearing down their former employees. The low, financially conservative estimate, is that it's cost me about a hundred grand a year, minus whatever I actually earned during the same time. That would be from about 1999 up to whenever (if ever) I retire. Actual damages, not punitive damages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I am over 40, by ten years at the end of this month - the big 5-0. I've been to a couple of lawyers. My wife was a paralegal, so luckily for me, she knows a few. Comes down to one big thing. I have to prove they said it. I haven't received a lot of encouragement from the legal community to pursue it, but it isn't a dead matter by any stretch. As to what was done for me, you may have missed it - Short version of the story is that I didn't find out that a former employer burned me with all of their suppliers (bad mouthed me after I left for a better paying job, and they, the former employer, lost all of my old business) so bad, that none of those suppliers would hire me as the regional sales rep, for fear that my former employer would retaliate and drop them s a supplier. All of these former suppliers offered to testify if I sued my former employer. Problem was, as the lawyers all informed me, is that since I found about it a year and a half after the bad mouthing had occurred, I was "time blocked" from filing a law suit. They changed the statue of limitations on suing for slander, from two years after date of discovery, to one year after date of occurrence. Doesn't matter that conservative bastards the torpedoed my career. And, like I said before, I've never been able to completely recover from that financially. Eleven, almost twelve years of working hard, and establishing a good reputation with the customers, and I can't practice my trade because someone had to slander em, and then hide behind tort reform to escape facing their day in front of a jury of their neighbors, not mine. Prior to the tort reform that Michigan passed, these guys were successfully sued by two other former employees, three to five years earlier, for the same thing, and they lost big. While I worked for them, they routinely ripped on former employees. You would think successful business people could manage to continue to be successful without tearing down their former employees. The low, financially conservative estimate, is that it's cost me about a hundred grand a year, minus whatever I actually earned during the same time. That would be from about 1999 up to whenever (if ever) I retire. Actual damages, not punitive damages. Greetings, I guess I do remember that. But I have not known you that long on here so forgot. OK. So the world was shit canned for you for a while and a while still. But there are other avenues out there for you. There always are. Maybe you don't want to start in the middle and work up. Maybe its hard to find it during this time and economy. Perhaps you could start some sort of company that only competes with these guys to a very limited degree, yet still in your area of expertise? But there has got to be something you can do. Many people get used and abused by horrible individuals and companies and they sink to the bottom only to rise up and some times even squish those individuals and companies. But I don't think you will be successful if that is your primary purpose. You need to find something, work it for success, and then you will glide by these jerks. Stop looking at it as a curse and make a blessing out of it. Otherwise you are doing 100 times worse to yourself then they possibly could ever do. NOTE: Just because a company says they would hire you or back you in court 'if they could' does not mean squat. Since they didn't, they wont. It is one thing to say it. Another to back it up. To say they would hire you but they are afraid... is top tier BS in my book every time. Because it means nothing to you, except that if the moon was made of cheese they would give you a cracker...probably. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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