TBodette68 Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nothing in the Constitution authorizes any federal involvement in healthcare -- yet Congress may soon require everyone in America to buy insurance. Its time Americans start asking their congressional representatives to obey the constitution. If they can't then its time to throw the bums out. I don't care if they are Democrats or Republicans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Nothing in the Constitution authorizes any federal involvement in healthcare -- yet Congress may soon require everyone in America to buy insurance. Its time Americans start asking their congressional representatives to obey the constitution. If they can't then its time to throw the bums out. I don't care if they are Democrats or Republicans. But does the Constitution say that Federal involvement in health care is forbidden,illegal or unethical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBodette68 Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 The Constitution created a federal government limited to its enumerated powers. Everything Congress is allowed to do is spelled out in Article I. The 10th Amendment makes it explicit: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBodette68 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 In the days before Medicare and Medicaid, the poor and elderly were admitted to hospitals at the same rate they are now, and received good care. Before those programs came into existence, every physician understood that he or she had a responsibility towards the less fortunate and free medical care was the norm. Hardly anyone is aware of this today, since it doesn’t fit into the typical, by the script story of government rescuing us from a predatory private sector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 (edited) The Constitution created a federal government limited to its enumerated powers. Everything Congress is allowed to do is spelled out in Article I. The 10th Amendment makes it explicit: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." So then put it on the ballot, and we can pass the bill by popular vote! Edited November 29, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methos Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 In the days before Medicare and Medicaid, the poor and elderly were admitted to hospitals at the same rate they are now, and received good care. Before those programs came into existence, every physician understood that he or she had a responsibility towards the less fortunate and free medical care was the norm. Hardly anyone is aware of this today, since it doesn’t fit into the typical, by the script story of government rescuing us from a predatory private sector. I am not sure what the demographics was back in the day, but with advances in medicine and increasing lifespans, without Medicare the elderly would not be taken care of, period. It's too expensive for the vast majority to foot the bill themselves and there is already to great a burden placed on hospitals servicing the poor let alone attempt free care for the elderly. It's not even feasible to discuss dropping Medicare. What are the options? Let the private sector flip the bill? It's not even a possibility, for even the big three along with countless other corporations rely on Medicare to pay most of retiree medical expenses. Senior citizens have a hard enough time finding supplemental insurance, and getting some form of catastrophic insurance on their own would be cost prohibitive for the vast majority. You could some how limit care, but is that what you would want when you are in their shoes? Medicare is quite effective and has led the industry in cost containment via DRG's. Other words, the private sector follows in their footsteps in best practice guidelines for care in treating various disorders. Medicare in many ways has been quite a success story. It's why even Republican's or other conservatives don't like comparing Medicare to any proposed public option in the current health care debate. It's just my two-cents, take it for what it's worth. Some one could argue that there is a lot of waste, but isn't there always waste in any large effort such as this? There is always room for improvements. Hopefully this administration will be more proactive; time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emigh Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I am not sure what the demographics was back in the day, but with advances in medicine and increasing lifespans, without Medicare the elderly would not be taken care of, period. It's too expensive for the vast majority to foot the bill themselves and there is already to great a burden placed on hospitals servicing the poor let alone attempt free care for the elderly. It's not even feasible to discuss dropping Medicare. What are the options? Let the private sector flip the bill? It's not even a possibility, for even the big three along with countless other corporations rely on Medicare to pay most of retiree medical expenses. Senior citizens have a hard enough time finding supplemental insurance, and getting some form of catastrophic insurance on their own would be cost prohibitive for the vast majority. You could some how limit care, but is that what you would want when you are in their shoes? Medicare is quite effective and has led the industry in cost containment via DRG's. Other words, the private sector follows in their footsteps in best practice guidelines for care in treating various disorders. Medicare in many ways has been quite a success story. It's why even Republican's or other conservatives don't like comparing Medicare to any proposed public option in the current health care debate. It's just my two-cents, take it for what it's worth. Some one could argue that there is a lot of waste, but isn't there always waste in any large effort such as this? There is always room for improvements. Hopefully this administration will be more proactive; time will tell. One of the reasons that the cost of Health Care is so high is unnecessary tests and procedures that doctors tell us is necessary. Health care reform needs to start at the medical level. At Henry Ford Health Care a specialist even charges seperately for the use of the room. My father was in the hospital, and doctors would come in for 5 minutes and charge $600. Fortunately Medicare paid. And the hospitals and doctors know that Medicare will pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I am not sure what the demographics was back in the day, but with advances in medicine and increasing lifespans, without Medicare the elderly would not be taken care of, period. It's too expensive for the vast majority to foot the bill themselves and there is already to great a burden placed on hospitals servicing the poor let alone attempt free care for the elderly. It's not even feasible to discuss dropping Medicare. What are the options? Let the private sector flip the bill? It's not even a possibility, for even the big three along with countless other corporations rely on Medicare to pay most of retiree medical expenses. Senior citizens have a hard enough time finding supplemental insurance, and getting some form of catastrophic insurance on their own would be cost prohibitive for the vast majority. You could some how limit care, but is that what you would want when you are in their shoes? Medicare is quite effective and has led the industry in cost containment via DRG's. Other words, the private sector follows in their footsteps in best practice guidelines for care in treating various disorders. Medicare in many ways has been quite a success story. It's why even Republican's or other conservatives don't like comparing Medicare to any proposed public option in the current health care debate. It's just my two-cents, take it for what it's worth. Some one could argue that there is a lot of waste, but isn't there always waste in any large effort such as this? There is always room for improvements. Hopefully this administration will be more proactive; time will tell. This is where the cost saving from eliminating waste will come from, the government can set guidelines, that the insurance companies don't have the ability to, and in areas where they are left with the last, best, and final terms of the care providers! Insurers nail doctors, with malpractice insurance rates, and providers sock it to insurance companies in the service costs, meanwhile the customer gets the short end of the stick in their premiums! No one wants to hear who's fault it is, they only want to see the end of the power struggle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 What I am reading says you think the problem is tort reform...our party refuses to touch this point....they don't want to fix healthcare....they want to protect their lawyer friends...this whole scam is a joke and I hope it doesn't pass in its' present form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 What I am reading says you think the problem is tort reform...our party refuses to touch this point....they don't want to fix healthcare....they want to protect their lawyer friends...this whole scam is a joke and I hope it doesn't pass in its' present form. We need tort reform, not only to drive down the cost of services and medication, but also to restrict the payouts for mal practice suits. There also needs to be aid, and grants for people that go medical school. Cut the costs of tuition, and alleviate the costs of schooling and more people will consider going to college to be a physician! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I haven't heard that any of your suggestions are in the senate bill...I'm not sure if paying for schooling would give us more GOOD doctors....If you want to be a doctor...I think there are many ways to make that happen, financially....The problem is that you MUST be very dedicated and SMART to make it through the schooling... If you know any guys from work who's kids have become doctors, I'm sure you know these are not average or even above average kids....they are exceptional....To get more doctors we would need to lower the standards in our medical schools...Another race to the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methos Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 One of the reasons that the cost of Health Care is so high is unnecessary tests and procedures that doctors tell us is necessary. Health care reform needs to start at the medical level. At Henry Ford Health Care a specialist even charges seperately for the use of the room. My father was in the hospital, and doctors would come in for 5 minutes and charge $600. Fortunately Medicare paid. And the hospitals and doctors know that Medicare will pay. It takes a long time to become a MD, twelve to fifteen years for a specialist of school and training. It's not only expensive but it's very demanding. Sure, the specialist may have only been in the room for five minutes, but he/she spends more time going over the charting, lab work, and likely radiological studies. Other words, much more than five minutes, and then takes all that expertise and develops or suggests a treatment regimen if needed. One that may save a life, and at times one that may have to be defended in court. A lot more goes on behind the scenes to where that six-hundred isn't exorbitant. Of course they know someone will pay. Do you go into work and do it for free? Of course not. I am not trying to be facetious, but no one works for free. You get compensation commensurate with your skills and the demand for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methos Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I haven't heard that any of your suggestions are in the senate bill...I'm not sure if paying for schooling would give us more GOOD doctors....If you want to be a doctor...I think there are many ways to make that happen, financially....The problem is that you MUST be very dedicated and SMART to make it through the schooling... If you know any guys from work who's kids have become doctors, I'm sure you know these are not average or even above average kids....they are exceptional....To get more doctors we would need to lower the standards in our medical schools...Another race to the bottom. Good point. As far a Health Care reform it's hard to say. I hope the public option survives in some workable fashion. On the other hand, I have concerns about it as well. We pay the most money for our care and have the worst outcomes, something needs to be done. I have little faith in Congress to pass meaningful well written legislation, hopefully, I will be surprised; but I doubt it! As far as tort reform, I do think that needs to happen, but not stripped. There are many good MD's, but there are some real bad one's as well. There needs to be some form of the "Sword of Damocles" hanging over their heads to keep them in line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggday Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I haven't heard that any of your suggestions are in the senate bill...I'm not sure if paying for schooling would give us more GOOD doctors....If you want to be a doctor...I think there are many ways to make that happen, financially....The problem is that you MUST be very dedicated and SMART to make it through the schooling... If you know any guys from work who's kids have become doctors, I'm sure you know these are not average or even above average kids....they are exceptional....To get more doctors we would need to lower the standards in our medical schools...Another race to the bottom.Longball,before you start spouting about issues of which you obviously have little knowledge I would suggest that you do a little investigating first.You will discover that most medical schools have LIMITS on their admission numbers.We do not have to lower the standards, we need to increase the number of openings available to the candidates.We can still maintain the standard for admission.The medical profession is very controlled internally.It is sad to see so much garbage and out and out mis-information being spewed about something {health reform}which has the potential to be beneficial to so many.I would never want the party{or its adherents}which OPPOSED social security,medicare etc. to be my basis of reference when it comes to arguing in regards to an issue which is beneficial to the vast majority of the citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEagle Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 There's three different plans at Delta for Dental. Do you know which one? Plan: Delta Dental Premier (formerly DeltaPremier USA) Delta Dental PPO (formerly DeltaPreferred Option USA) DeltaCare USA My dentist is only listed under the first one. My parents are happy about being able to have Delta Dental. They have more coverage than even blue criss-cross and less bs. Not too happy about thier co-pays but they expected somthing like that. They are hoping for National Healthcare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Longball,before you start spouting about issues of which you obviously have little knowledge I would suggest that you do a little investigating first.You will discover that most medical schools have LIMITS on their admission numbers.We do not have to lower the standards, we need to increase the number of openings available to the candidates.We can still maintain the standard for admission.The medical profession is very controlled internally.It is sad to see so much garbage and out and out mis-information being spewed about something {health reform}which has the potential to be beneficial to so many.I would never want the party{or its adherents}which OPPOSED social security,medicare etc. to be my basis of reference when it comes to arguing in regards to an issue which is beneficial to the vast majority of the citizens. I think you need to think this thru....If you have a limited number of students you will admit to a medical school....you will take the very best of your applicants, correct? Now you decide to increase enrollment...Has the QUALITY of your applicants been eroded? Of course it has....Do you think all these future doctors are equal? Of course they aren't... This is life and death stuff....the best of the best for me please..I've seen what average people in other professions do...I don't think I want to go to an average doctor...Maybe we could use these less then the best doctors on the poor people who get inferior insurance from the government. We'll keep all the best doctors for the people with good insurance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggday Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I think you need to think this thru....If you have a limited number of students you will admit to a medical school....you will take the very best of your applicants, correct? Now you decide to increase enrollment...Has the QUALITY of your applicants been eroded? Of course it has....Do you think all these future doctors are equal? Of course they aren't... This is life and death stuff....the best of the best for me please..I've seen what average people in other professions do...I don't think I want to go to an average doctor...Maybe we could use these less then the best doctors on the poor people who get inferior insurance from the government. We'll keep all the best doctors for the people with good insurance...Take your own advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longball Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I'm sorry....what do you mean? Please tell me where you disagree with my logic....From what I have been able to find....the reason schools limit enrollment is because there are only so many residencies available in our hospitals....a resident is like an apprentice.... I don't know how to get around that obstical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I haven't heard that any of your suggestions are in the senate bill...I'm not sure if paying for schooling would give us more GOOD doctors....If you want to be a doctor...I think there are many ways to make that happen, financially....The problem is that you MUST be very dedicated and SMART to make it through the schooling... If you know any guys from work who's kids have become doctors, I'm sure you know these are not average or even above average kids....they are exceptional....To get more doctors we would need to lower the standards in our medical schools...Another race to the bottom. I don't care what the profession is, but limiting the number intentionally, or inadvertently drives up the wages of everyone working in that field based on demand. However when you flood an industry with qualified personnel then the wages for that job decrease. Would it not be better to open the door for more people to get the schooling cheaper, while increasing scrutiny on applicants seeking an MD? I don't care what you do, you will never through any testing process totally eliminate a doctor from making mistakes, but you can incentivize doctors with good success rates like they do in other countries with social health care. Doctors in some other countries get paid more based on their success rates versus doctors who don't preform as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC BOB Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 How did this thread go from being about retiree benefit changes to going off on this bullshit tangent?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) How did this thread go from being about retiree benefit changes to going off on this bullshit tangent?..... The thread is about health care reductions to retirees, and there is an ongoing debate over legislation that will protect all retirees, and Americans who need health care. How did the thread get derailed? We are still discussing health care aren't we? Edited December 5, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 There is an explanation meeting at the former local 425's hall for affected retirees. This meeting is set for 1:00 P.M. on Dec. 15th, they should be able to answer all of the retirees questions about their coverage modifications! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forddaughter Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 We got our new cards, but I didn't see anything about the new coverage?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFordJim Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 We had our retirees Christmas party today at Local 182 in Livonia and our local president spoke to all of us and said that three weeks ago he received the info on the Veba plan for retirees. He said he was shocked that there were changes because up to that point, he was told that there would be NO changes to the retirees health care. He said he was not happy about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugots Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 The benefits reps all attented meetings in september/october. Unless they played hooky and went to the casino......., They knew about it. How does chirper come on here telling me/all of you about it months ago if nobody knew about it? They knew. They just didn't want US to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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