The return of the S2000?

[Reigner92]

http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1006_honda_to_fuse_s2000_beat_into_one/index.html

[syrtran]

http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1006_honda_to_fuse_s2000_beat_into_one/index.html

Yes, return of the S2000... as much as the Puma was the reincarnation of the 289 Cobra, or the X1/9 invoked the spirit of a Ferrari 250GT.

 

More like someone at MT is sniffing the printer ink cleaning fluid, again.

[timmm55]

The discription (Fit based, but RWD mid-engine) sounds like they took a leaf out of the Fiero book.

 

..........it could also work for the Fiesta

[akirby]

How did this work out for GM? Is there enough market to support this?

[timmm55]

How did this work out for GM? Is there enough market to support this?

 

 

The Fiero was a good idea, built off part from the Citation/Omega/Phoenix or was it the J cars? Junk either way. If Honda is patenting (?) this combo using better parts in a economically feasible package............HELL yes!

 

"We did some background research and discovered that Honda has lodged a patent pending in Japan to build a roadster using a subframe and parts from current cars but adding technology to lower curb weight and reduce production costs. The patent actually refers to the "engine being fitted to a center frame" which translates from Japanese to mid-engined and rear-wheel drive. "

 

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1006_honda_to_fuse_s2000_beat_into_one/index.html#ixzz0rcEePlVq

[timmm55]

Yes, return of the S2000... as much as the Puma was the reincarnation of the 289 Cobra, or the X1/9 invoked the spirit of a Ferrari 250GT.

 

More like someone at MT is sniffing the printer ink cleaning fluid, again.

 

 

The spirit of the X 1/9 might be apt.......much like the Miata is the spirit of the Triumph Spitfire.

 

I think something in the spirit of the original 1963 Mustang II show car for Ford, based off the Fiesta or Focus. I'd buy one in a heartbeat!

[akirby]

The Fiero was a good idea, built off part from the Citation/Omega/Phoenix or was it the J cars? Junk either way. If Honda is patenting (?) this combo using better parts in a economically feasible package............HELL yes!

 

"We did some background research and discovered that Honda has lodged a patent pending in Japan to build a roadster using a subframe and parts from current cars but adding technology to lower curb weight and reduce production costs. The patent actually refers to the "engine being fitted to a center frame" which translates from Japanese to mid-engined and rear-wheel drive. "

 

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1006_honda_to_fuse_s2000_beat_into_one/index.html#ixzz0rcEePlVq

 

Who said Fiero? I was talking about the Solstice/Sky. I personally liked them but there was obviously no real business case.

[timmm55]

Who said Fiero? I was talking about the Solstice/Sky. I personally liked them but there was obviously no real business case.

 

 

I did in the comment before you (sounds like they took a leaf out of the Fiero book). . Then you said: "How did this work out for GM? Is there enough market to support this?" It sounds like a response to my comment......no mention of Solstice until now.

 

The Sky/Solstice were not mid-engine or based off another (cheaper) platform.

Edited June 22, 2010 by timmm55

[PREMiERdrum]

The Sky/Solstice were not mid-engine or based off another (cheaper) platform.

 

Quite the opposite... the Kappa platform (on which the Solstice/Sky were based) was extremely costly to GM, both to engineer and to produce. The numbers never made sense on the car (they cost more to design and build than they could sell for), but (as the legend goes) Lutz insisted on them being produced.

[timmm55]

Quite the opposite... the Kappa platform (on which the Solstice/Sky were based) was extremely costly to GM, both to engineer and to produce. The numbers never made sense on the car (they cost more to design and build than they could sell for), but (as the legend goes) Lutz insisted on them being produced.

 

 

Is it mid-engine? NO

 

Is it based on a cheaper chassis (Fit)? NO

 

It isn't the opposite of anything. It's a red herring. I never considered the Solstice at all! It isn't relevant.

[PREMiERdrum]

Is it mid-engine? NO

 

Is it based on a cheaper chassis (Fit)? NO

 

It isn't the opposite of anything. It's a red herring. I never considered the Solstice at all! It isn't relevant.

 

Some confusion here... I was meaning "Quite the opposite" to this:

 

or based off another (cheaper) platform.

 

I should have added emphasis

[timmm55]

My point is: if Honda can build a pint sized mid-engined convertible sportscar from the Fit, a car the Fiesta already out handles, out brakes, out MPGs and out performs in virtually every catagory but space utilization........why shouldn't Ford make such a competitor???????

[akirby]

My point is: if Honda can build a pint sized mid-engined convertible sportscar from the Fit, a car the Fiesta already out handles, out brakes, out MPGs and out performs in virtually every catagory but space utilization........why shouldn't Ford make such a competitor???????

 

Geez - who wee-wee'd in your corn flakes?

 

If Ford was rolling in cash and wanted a niche product for the heck of it then yeah, it might make sense. But there just isn't enough of a market for a small roadster right now. A convertible Fiesta - maybe, but as a Fiesta with minimal changes. Not as a unique vehicle on a shared platform.

 

That's what I meant about the Solstice/Sky - no market.

[retro-man]

Return of the Del Sol is more like it:

 

Actually, Pontiac had gotten the Fiero into a pretty decent car. Right before they killed it.

[PREMiERdrum]

Actually, Pontiac had gotten the Fiero into a pretty decent car. Right before they killed it.

Yep... infighting between GM brands killed a product with big potential.. who'd have thought it? :shades:

[timmm55]

Geez - who wee-wee'd in your corn flakes?

 

If Ford was rolling in cash and wanted a niche product for the heck of it then yeah, it might make sense. But there just isn't enough of a market for a small roadster right now. A convertible Fiesta - maybe, but as a Fiesta with minimal changes. Not as a unique vehicle on a shared platform.

 

That's what I meant about the Solstice/Sky - no market.

 

 

First of all......don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining either...... keep up the rudeness and I'll oblige.. I wasn't adressing you directly. You keep on interjecting the Sky/Solstice. Who would use that as a business model anyway? (Other than as another GM what-not-to-do ).

 

Geez maybe Ford shouldn't have made the Mustang because the Corvair Spyder wasn't a success either?

You keep saying there isn't a market, like it's a Fait Accompli. Lets see, there's the Miata.........and nothing else. No Del Sol, no Sky/Solstice, no MR2, no S2000 (yet). On the contrary it sounds like a good time to reintroduce a small (economically produced) roadster, probably not much more to produce than the KA. Ford doesn't need another FWD Capri either.

[timmm55]

Some confusion here... I was meaning "Quite the opposite" to this:

 

 

 

I should have added emphasis

 

 

OK, got ya. That's the old GM, errrrrrr new GM....wait! Back to new retro GM LOL.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Ford completely screwed up the Italian Focus CC in Europe its reputation ruined (Ford would have been better drilling holes in the floor to let the water out) from which it never has recovered 400-500 sales a month but it is still in production which l find surprising given the very low numbers.

 

 

Ford Escort XR3 in contrast was a massive sales hit in Europe folk were upset when production stopped others like Mazda came in and filled their boots with sales when Ford had no convertible for years until the Focus, the Escort owned the convertible marked in Europe.

 

I often see a few old Fiesta's that have been converted to RWD at classic car shows, wonder how hard it would be for Ford to copy Honda and produce a RWD Fiesta CC off the Fiesta platform.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Ford Jellymoulds

[akirby]

You keep saying there isn't a market, like it's a Fait Accompli. Lets see, there's the Miata.........and nothing else. No Del Sol, no Sky/Solstice, no MR2, no S2000 (yet).

 

But isn't that EXACTLY the point? If there was such a viable market then where are all the competitors? The Miata is barely surviving and it's the gold standard in the market.

 

The Miata is on pace to sell 6K for the entire year, if they're lucky. 2009 was somewhere around 10K units sold (in the U.S.). The S2000 only sold about 2500 for the entire year before it was finally cancelled. Last year Pontiac only sold 4800 Solstices.

 

So where are all these potential customers coming from and why haven't they been buying these other vehicles?

 

I'd love to see Ford have a Miata/S2000 competitor, but there is just no way it makes good business sense today. Likewise, I don't see where this new Honda will fare any better than the others, although if it has good worldwide sales then they might be able to get by with mediocre U.S. sales.

 

Edit: I do think a convertible version of the Fiesta or Focus would work because that's not an entirely new vehicle and requires much less investment.

Edited June 24, 2010 by akirby

[timmm55]

But isn't that EXACTLY the point? If there was such a viable market then where are all the competitors? The Miata is barely surviving and it's the gold standard in the market.

 

The Miata is on pace to sell 6K for the entire year, if they're lucky. 2009 was somewhere around 10K units sold (in the U.S.). The S2000 only sold about 2500 for the entire year before it was finally cancelled. Last year Pontiac only sold 4800 Solstices.

 

So where are all these potential customers coming from and why haven't they been buying these other vehicles?

 

I'd love to see Ford have a Miata/S2000 competitor, but there is just no way it makes good business sense today. Likewise, I don't see where this new Honda will fare any better than the others, although if it has good worldwide sales then they might be able to get by with mediocre U.S. sales.

 

Edit: I do think a convertible version of the Fiesta or Focus would work because that's not an entirely new vehicle and requires much less investment.

 

It would have to be a Global car AND based off a cheap chassis. It could be a hit in Europe and the US (and many others too). Does the Sports Cars market ever really die? Recessionary times are traditionally horrible for Sports Cars (they aren't practical, most people don't want to look frivolous) but they always spring back.

[akirby]

It would have to be a Global car AND based off a cheap chassis. It could be a hit in Europe and the US (and many others too). Does the Sports Cars market ever really die? Recessionary times are traditionally horrible for Sports Cars (they aren't practical, most people don't want to look frivolous) but they always spring back.

 

Like I said - I'd love to see it but only if Ford was rolling in cash and totally solvent. Until then, there are much bigger fish to fry.