Time to admit Obamanomics has failed

[partsisparts]

The question of "who screws up America more" only erodes into the same partisan argument over and over again. People will think what they want.

 

Here's how I see it.....

 

Conservaties love individuals. They fully acknowledge there are people who will do others wrong, and government only keeps honest people honest. We can try to make things better (and often do), but NO amount of government will prevent dishonest people from being dishonest or taking advantage of others. We can only hope to expose them.

 

Liberals love government. Even if all people acted in exactly the way they want them to, they'd still love government. Liberals believe that government is only a force for good.

 

BUT, when government is used to "take from the rich and give to the poor", it is nothing more than codified thievery/extortion. As seen in the recent cases of Rangel/Waters, the "selfless servants" may not have been as selfless as they portrayed themselves. This is the folly of believing in other human beings' motives without question. I wish I understood why people were so desperate to follow/depend on others.

 

Yes, Bush made mistakes. Clinton did too. Pelosi/Reid/Obama have made some REAL zingers in their (relatively short) tenure in office. People may have wanted change, but they didn't want perpetual unemployment.

 

I firmly believe the best thing for Obama is that he lose Congress. Yes, it will hurt. But Bill Clinton's economy would not have existed were it not for Republican control of Congress. Prove me wrong if you think otherwise.

 

Every election is one where the minority party points the finger at those in power and tells the people "this is who is to blame for your lot in life". It's the democrats turn to say "Not me". We'll see in November how the American people will judge their actions for the last two years. Like or not, fortune does not favor the democrats this November. Midterms usually don't favor the majority party anyway, based on historical trends.

The last 3 Presidents who's parties have lost congress in the mid-term elections have all won re-election. 2 quite easily.

Truman 1948

Reagan 1984

Clinton 1996

 

You bring up a very valid point Ranger, I think if the dems lose at least the senate it will force the repubs to throw some support to get things going. That would be good for Obama.

I don't think it mattered who was in power in the 90s. I think the Clinton economy had more to do with the coming of the computer age and the .com boom than who was in control.

Edited August 17, 2010 by partsisparts

[RangerM]

The last 3 Presidents who's parties have lost congress in the mid-term elections have all won re-election. 2 quite easily.

Truman 1948

Reagan 1984

Clinton 1996

 

You bring up a very valid point Ranger, I think if the dems lose at least the senate it will force the repubs to throw some support to get things going. That would be good for Obama.

I don't think it mattered who was in power in the 90s. I think the Clinton economy had more to do with the coming of the computer age and the .com boom than who was in control.

I have no problem with Obama (the man). I don't really mind him being President. BUT, I don't like the virtually unregulated power that the left side of the aisle has over two branches of our government, along with their ability to stack the third.

 

As it is, with one party having that much control, it's inevitably the case that most (all?) blame goes to them. When power is shared, the two sides must work together. Not every Republican idea is the best, and not every Democrat(ic) idea sucks......just most of them. (ok, ok, just kidding....sort of....I AM conservative after all).

 

I can only hope the Republicans take back the House. I don't see the Senate going Republican. Although, I think Reid may be toast (as the Senate leader; or maybe even as a member of the Senate)

[xr7g428]

We seem to do best with a Democrat president, and a Republican congress. The Republicans act like Republicans and tighten the purse strings. The President holds their feet to the fire to keep them from doing crazy religious right stuff. The Democrats in Congress get the pork they need to buy off the local constituents, and generally don't try to pass silly crap.

[Trimdingman]

We seem to do best with a Democrat president, and a Republican congress. The Republicans act like Republicans and tighten the purse strings. The President holds their feet to the fire to keep them from doing crazy religious right stuff. The Democrats in Congress get the pork they need to buy off the local constituents, and generally don't try to pass silly crap.

 

 

There should be a moratorium on any new legislation. All existing legislation should have a time limit placed on it, and be voted on when it comes up for renewal. No new legislation should be considered until the government is cut by 50%. This should be done every 5 years until government is virtually dismantled, and non-voluntary taxation abolished.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Trimdingman

[Imawhosure]

We seem to do best with a Democrat president, and a Republican congress. The Republicans act like Republicans and tighten the purse strings. The President holds their feet to the fire to keep them from doing crazy religious right stuff. The Democrats in Congress get the pork they need to buy off the local constituents, and generally don't try to pass silly crap.

 

 

Normally I agree. I have been a big fan of gridlock for years. When gridlock is in force, the debate on bills comes directly to the people, who then put pressure upon their politicians to either accept, or reject. A good example of this was when Reagan wanted to cut taxes. The democrats were not happy, but he went directly to the people via television, and the rest is history.......although we notice many attempts by certain people to rewrite what actually happened, lol.

 

But in this case; eventhough I love gridlock, I believe we MUST remove all the dems from office possible in the next 2 elections. REASON-------->because conservatives make policy that can be reversed.......such as the Bush tax cuts, or Reagan changing of the tax brackets. If Americans decide it was a mistake, they just elect people to change it back. On the other hand, liberals continuously try to make their programs non-discretionary spending. In this manner, all new politicians coming in can do is fund it.

 

This is the road that Obama care is on. To undo it, liberals have to be removed.......and in droves!!!! And, if Obama is re-elected, any change will be vetoed! After all, what does he care anyway, he would then be a lame duck president.

 

We must also consider the fact that if we change politicians, for the 1st time if we elect good ones, instead of debating hordes of spending bills, they are going to have to debate hordes of in force policys in need of rescinding. Do you know a liberal (not a democrat mind you, but a liberal) who will do that? Me either!!!

 

Independents, ok.........tea party, ok..........liberals, take a hike.

[Imawhosure]

Three Accomplishments from Obama!

 

1. He has destroyed the Clinton Political Machine - Driving a stake thru the Heart of Hillary's Presidential aspirations--something no Republican was ever able to do. Remember when a Hillary Presidency scared the daylights out of you!

 

2. He killed off the Kennedy Dynasty - No more Kennedys trolling Washington looking for booze and women wanting rides home. American women and freedom are safer tonight!

 

3. He is destroying the Democratic Party before our eyes!

Dennis Moore had never lost a race - quit

Evan Bayh had never lost a race - quit

Byron Dorgan - had never lost a race - quit

Harry Reid - bid for re-election doesn't look good .

Powerful House leader 40 year veteran David Obey ( Wis ) refuses to run again and lose

Al Gore lost his voice, his wife and now has TWO mansions to "live green" in.

California 's Barbara Boxer has gone silent....Carly Fiorina will beat her in Nov.

These are just a handful of the Democrats whose political careers Obama has destroyed! By the end of 2010 dozens more!

 

In December of 2008 the Democrats were on the rise. In the last two election cycles they had picked up 14 senate seats and 52 house seats.

The press was touting the death of the Conservative Movement and the Republican Party.

In one year Obama put a stop to all of this and will probably give the house, if not the senate back to the Republicans.

 

Obama was named Gun Salesman of the Decade. He also has helped the ammunition industry so much that the factories are operating 24-7 trying to keep up with the demand.

He has completely exposed liberals and progressives for what they are.

 

Every generation seems to need to relearn the lesson on why they should never actually put liberals in charge.

 

He is bringing home the lesson very well!

Liberals tax, borrow and spend - v

Liberals won't bring themselves to protect America - v

Liberals want to take over the economy - v

Liberals think they know what is best for everyone - v

Liberals aren't happy till they are running YOUR life - v

He has brought more Americans back to conservatism than anyone since Reagan.

In one year he rejuvenated the Conservative Movement and brought out to the streets millions of Freedom Loving Americans.

Name me one other time in your life that you saw your friends and neighbors this interested in taking back America !

In all honesty one year ago I was more afraid than I had ever been in my life. Not of the economy, but of the direction our country was going. I thought Americans had forgotten what this country was all about. My neighbors, friends, strangers proved to me that my lack of confidence of the greatness and wisdom of the American people was flat out wrong.

When the American People wake up, no smooth talking teleprompter reader can fool them!

Obama woke up these Great Americans

Again, I want to say, Thank you!

 

So, Lets Recap "2009".........what a year! WOW!!!

 

1. The American people inaugurate a president with a total of 142 days experience as a US Senator from the most politically corrupt state (city) in America whose governors have been ousted from office. The President's first official act is to order the close of Gitmo and make sure terrorist’s civil rights are not violated. ( Honest mistake?)

 

2. The U.S. Congress rushes to confirm a black Attorney General, Eric Holder, whose law firm we later find out represents seventeen Gitmo Terrorists. ( An honest mistake?)

 

3. The CIA Boss appointee, Leon Panetta, has absolutely no experience.

 

4. We got the second most corrupt American woman (Pelosi is #1) as Secretary of State; bought and paid for.

 

5. We got a Tax Cheat for Treasury Secretary who did not properly file his own taxes for 12 years.

 

6. A Commerce Secretary nominee who withdrew due to corruption charges.

 

7. A Tax cheat nominee for Chief Performance Officer who withdrew under charges.

 

8. A Labor Secretary nominee who withdrew under charges of unethical conduct.

 

9. A Secretary HHS nominee (Daschle) who withdrew under charges of cheating on his taxes.

 

10. Multiple appointments of former lobbyists after an absolute campaign statement that no lobbyists would be appointed.

All this occurred just during the first three weeks. . . But who's counting?

 

America is being run by the modern-day Three Stooges; Barry, Nancy and Harry and they are still trying to define stimulus..."it's spending!!!"

 

The congress passes the $800,000,000,000 (that's $800 billion) pork-loaded spending bill where the government gives you a smidgen of your tax dollars ($13 per week), making you feel so good about yourself [stimulated], that you want to run out to Wal-Mart and buy a new Chinese-made HDTV! Only with the Liberals...

 

Pray for our country.

Here's the good news though - Obama took Air Force One to Denver to sign the stimulus package, wasting as much as 10,000 gallons of fuel OR 24 JOBS FOR ONE YEAR.

 

Don't you just love hypocrites?

Obama went to the International Olympic Committee to have them choose Chicago for a host city, he failed.

Obama went to Copenhagen to lecture them on global warming, he failed.

Obama went to New Jersey to promote the Democratic candidate for governor, he failed.

Obama went to Virginia to promote the Democratic candidate for governor, he failed.

Obama went to Massachusetts to promote the Democratic candidate for senator, he failed.

.

Obama went to Louisiana 45 days late to calm the folks down, he failed.

B.O. went on bended knee to the Arabs to win their love & affection, and failed.

He spent nearly a trillion dollars to "stimulate job growth" and this month we get 41,000, another failure.

 

He has signed the death of NASA and blunted spaced exploration while being the "education president", a failure.

 

He calls himself a Christian but has yet to select or attend a Wash D.C. church, failed again.

 

Obama ran in 2008 to end partisan politics, oops, failed yet again.

He promised to be the most "transparent" President and recent events within the White House have shown MORE FAILURE.

 

 

He is the first President in modern times to ignore the laying of the wreath ceremony at Arlinton National Cemetery , preferring to vacation in Chicago and play basketball as the Gulf Coast is drenched in oil....FAIL, FAIL, FAIL.

 

And finally, he is the 1st president to remain on vacation after a terrorist attack.

 

Anyone that supports this insanity can keep "THE CHANGE".

 

Just Facts...............................yet I'm sure those on the Left will say this is no big deal!

[rn4]

Three Accomplishments from Obama!

 

1. He has destroyed the Clinton Political Machine - Driving a stake thru the Heart of Hillary's Presidential aspirations--something no Republican was ever able to do. Remember when a Hillary Presidency scared the daylights out of you!

 

2. He killed off the Kennedy Dynasty - No more Kennedys trolling Washington looking for booze and women wanting rides home. American women and freedom are safer tonight!

 

3. He is destroying the Democratic Party before our eyes!

Dennis Moore had never lost a race - quit

Evan Bayh had never lost a race - quit

Byron Dorgan - had never lost a race - quit

Harry Reid - bid for re-election doesn't look good .

Powerful House leader 40 year veteran David Obey ( Wis ) refuses to run again and lose

Al Gore lost his voice, his wife and now has TWO mansions to "live green" in.

California 's Barbara Boxer has gone silent....Carly Fiorina will beat her in Nov.

These are just a handful of the Democrats whose political careers Obama has destroyed! By the end of 2010 dozens more!

 

In December of 2008 the Democrats were on the rise. In the last two election cycles they had picked up 14 senate seats and 52 house seats.

The press was touting the death of the Conservative Movement and the Republican Party.

In one year Obama put a stop to all of this and will probably give the house, if not the senate back to the Republicans.

 

Obama was named Gun Salesman of the Decade. He also has helped the ammunition industry so much that the factories are operating 24-7 trying to keep up with the demand.

He has completely exposed liberals and progressives for what they are.

 

Every generation seems to need to relearn the lesson on why they should never actually put liberals in charge.

 

He is bringing home the lesson very well!

Liberals tax, borrow and spend - v

Liberals won't bring themselves to protect America - v

Liberals want to take over the economy - v

Liberals think they know what is best for everyone - v

Liberals aren't happy till they are running YOUR life - v

He has brought more Americans back to conservatism than anyone since Reagan.

In one year he rejuvenated the Conservative Movement and brought out to the streets millions of Freedom Loving Americans.

Name me one other time in your life that you saw your friends and neighbors this interested in taking back America !

In all honesty one year ago I was more afraid than I had ever been in my life. Not of the economy, but of the direction our country was going. I thought Americans had forgotten what this country was all about. My neighbors, friends, strangers proved to me that my lack of confidence of the greatness and wisdom of the American people was flat out wrong.

When the American People wake up, no smooth talking teleprompter reader can fool them!

Obama woke up these Great Americans

Again, I want to say, Thank you!

 

So, Lets Recap "2009".........what a year! WOW!!!

 

1. The American people inaugurate a president with a total of 142 days experience as a US Senator from the most politically corrupt state (city) in America whose governors have been ousted from office. The President's first official act is to order the close of Gitmo and make sure terrorist’s civil rights are not violated. ( Honest mistake?)

 

2. The U.S. Congress rushes to confirm a black Attorney General, Eric Holder, whose law firm we later find out represents seventeen Gitmo Terrorists. ( An honest mistake?)

 

3. The CIA Boss appointee, Leon Panetta, has absolutely no experience.

 

4. We got the second most corrupt American woman (Pelosi is #1) as Secretary of State; bought and paid for.

 

5. We got a Tax Cheat for Treasury Secretary who did not properly file his own taxes for 12 years.

 

6. A Commerce Secretary nominee who withdrew due to corruption charges.

 

7. A Tax cheat nominee for Chief Performance Officer who withdrew under charges.

 

8. A Labor Secretary nominee who withdrew under charges of unethical conduct.

 

9. A Secretary HHS nominee (Daschle) who withdrew under charges of cheating on his taxes.

 

10. Multiple appointments of former lobbyists after an absolute campaign statement that no lobbyists would be appointed.

All this occurred just during the first three weeks. . . But who's counting?

 

America is being run by the modern-day Three Stooges; Barry, Nancy and Harry and they are still trying to define stimulus..."it's spending!!!"

 

The congress passes the $800,000,000,000 (that's $800 billion) pork-loaded spending bill where the government gives you a smidgen of your tax dollars ($13 per week), making you feel so good about yourself [stimulated], that you want to run out to Wal-Mart and buy a new Chinese-made HDTV! Only with the Liberals...

 

Pray for our country.

Here's the good news though - Obama took Air Force One to Denver to sign the stimulus package, wasting as much as 10,000 gallons of fuel OR 24 JOBS FOR ONE YEAR.

 

Don't you just love hypocrites?

Obama went to the International Olympic Committee to have them choose Chicago for a host city, he failed.

Obama went to Copenhagen to lecture them on global warming, he failed.

Obama went to New Jersey to promote the Democratic candidate for governor, he failed.

Obama went to Virginia to promote the Democratic candidate for governor, he failed.

Obama went to Massachusetts to promote the Democratic candidate for senator, he failed.

.

Obama went to Louisiana 45 days late to calm the folks down, he failed.

B.O. went on bended knee to the Arabs to win their love & affection, and failed.

He spent nearly a trillion dollars to "stimulate job growth" and this month we get 41,000, another failure.

 

He has signed the death of NASA and blunted spaced exploration while being the "education president", a failure.

 

He calls himself a Christian but has yet to select or attend a Wash D.C. church, failed again.

 

Obama ran in 2008 to end partisan politics, oops, failed yet again.

He promised to be the most "transparent" President and recent events within the White House have shown MORE FAILURE.

 

 

He is the first President in modern times to ignore the laying of the wreath ceremony at Arlinton National Cemetery , preferring to vacation in Chicago and play basketball as the Gulf Coast is drenched in oil....FAIL, FAIL, FAIL.

 

And finally, he is the 1st president to remain on vacation after a terrorist attack.

 

Anyone that supports this insanity can keep "THE CHANGE".

 

Just Facts...............................yet I'm sure those on the Left will say this is no big deal!

 

This is more opinons than facts. What do you consider modern times, George H.W. Bush never layed a singlr wreath at Arlington, but I guess that was back in the ancient 90's.

.

[napfirst]

This is more opinons than facts. What do you consider modern times, George H.W. Bush never layed a singlr wreath at Arlington, but I guess that was back in the ancient 90's.

.

Out of all the points Whosure made, this is all you can come back with?.......sad.......and he didn't even mention van jones, the 'green czar' and self-described communist or cass sunstein, the Administrator of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, who advocates giving animals legal standing to sue their owners for abuse...this president is an abject failure, he has surrounded himself with the far left nut jobs, an the American people will speak in Nov....and obama's not going to like what he hears.....

[rn4]

Out of all the points Whosure made, this is all you can come back with?.......sad.......and he didn't even mention van jones, the 'green czar' and self-described communist or cass sunstein, the Administrator of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, who advocates giving animals legal standing to sue their owners for abuse...this president is an abject failure, he has surrounded himself with the far left nut jobs, an the American people will speak in Nov....and obama's not going to like what he hears.....

 

I show one part of his post, (which I doubt was his anyway) that was completely wrong and the rest was mostly opinion and you come back with more opinion now thats sad.

[xr7g428]

RN4, why don't you take his post line by line and point out what you deem to be opinion and what you deem to be fact. I think in the balance you will see a lot of facts there. From facts come informed opinions.

[Imawhosure]

I show one part of his post, (which I doubt was his anyway) that was completely wrong and the rest was mostly opinion and you come back with more opinion now thats sad.

 

Your weak response proves that the liberals are on the run. My previous post was made to remind everyone why we should continue to.......chase......them......out. And we thank you for your support in the matter. It is extremely gratifying to watch liberals squirm as they realize that the American public has a severe case of buyers remorse. We could all debate how bad it would've been under Mcain/Palin as far as the economy, but you liberals must be aghast at the fact that this is NOT what motivated America this time. What HAS motivated Americans is DOMESTIC POLICY written by.......well......the liberals. Instead of using the tried and true method employed by liberals through out time, slow change was not BOs forte. He decided to ram it home while he had control of congress giving America an instant blueprint of what you guys really want by the stark change.

 

America is saying, "over ruled."

 

For at least 12yrs I am sure, every major political race will have conservatives reminding the country what happens IF you elect liberals; and using BOs policies to show the stark contrast. BO has certainly seriously wounded the democrats for the forseeable future by shooting himself, and them in their proverbial feet, and that is hysterical from a politician who is basically anti-gun, lol. Now if we could only find another Reagan, we might be able to put you guys out of your misery for 16 or 20yrs-)

[TStag]

I read the other day that 1 in 8 Americans live in abject poverty. How has decades of right wing politics in the US actually helped these people? Americans tell the world that to have a good standard of living we should be more like them. But we don't have 'trailer trash' in Europe and we have a comfortable standard of living with a nice safety net. Yes I concede that many nations in Europe need to be less left wing to raise our standard of living, but hell we have nice holidays, and a good standard of living. More Brits for example buy BMW's then regular cars why would we want to lower our standard of living?

 

So has Obamanomics failed or it this years of Republican laissez faire in the banking system that Americans are paying the price for? Who deregulated the banking system. George W.....

 

Also who wants to vote for a Witch who is anti hand jobs? Is she really presidential material. Is any of the tea party?

 

Cutting taxes is sensible when you can afford it. But to do that what spending will the US cut welfare? It's already down to the bone it seems. How about a 20% cut in defence spending.... If Obama want to deliver a big tax cut and balance the budget then maybe he'd fancy that one?

[Cocheese]

I read the other day that 1 in 8 Americans live in abject poverty. How has decades of right wing politics in the US actually helped these people?

 

Ever think these people don't want to be helped?

 

Personally, I think 1 in 8 is a pretty good number. But as long as the Government will provide you food and shelter for free, then most of those below the poverty line won't work to make a better life for themselves. Like I said in another thread, it's the "victimism" disease.

 

Americans tell the world that to have a good standard of living we should be more like them.

 

Would you rather be like Mexico, Korea, Iran, Russia, Chile, the Philippines?

 

At the end of the day, what America stands for, or at least what it did, was pretty damn good.

 

But we don't have 'trailer trash' in Europe

 

So the movie "Snatch" was wrong about you don't have "Pikey's"?

 

and we have a comfortable standard of living with a nice safety net.

 

So does the US, for those who want to work for it. For those who would rather not, well they have it pretty good too.

 

So has Obamanomics failed or it this years of Republican laissez faire in the banking system that Americans are paying the price for? Who deregulated the banking system. George W.....

 

You might want to look into who pushed for the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae fiasco before you start placing the blame at he feet of the wrong people

 

Also who wants to vote for a Witch who is anti hand jobs? Is she really presidential material.

 

 

Really? Great level of maturity.

 

If you were really concerned about that, then why not question Hilary Clinton? After all, she must not like blowjobs since her husband went after anything with a pulse to get one

 

However, clearly the one sitting in that Office right now isn't.

 

Is any of the tea party?

 

The Left has shown they can't, so I say give the Tea Party a try. Their reasoning worked before.

 

Cutting taxes is sensible when you can afford it.

 

Stop spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave and maybe you could

 

But to do that what spending will the US cut welfare? It's already down to the bone it seems.

 

Until it's gone, it will always be too high.

 

Create jobs so that every single person can work.

 

But as long as you give people a free ride, they will take it.

[Imawhosure]

Yes, the old story is----->"if you give it away, they will come."

 

It really is a societal thing, although it is not PC to talk about it. In todays America, PC actually means----------->lie to cover the truth of what is going on.

 

If we are so good to say what is going on in Iran, Afghanistan, Korea, or anywhere else.........then we should be brave enough to actually articulate what is going on here.

 

Look at us when we were great------------>If 3 Nazis woulda landed in New England and said Heil Hitler, they woulda been thrown in the can until the authorities figured out what the hell was going on. TODAY----------->if 3 Middle Eastern guys get on a plane and start talking about the Koran and we check them out, we are insensitive, we are over reacting, we are not PC, we are racists, we are not open to all religions.

 

If the plane is blown up, it is the governments fault; regardless if it is GWs time, or BOs time.

 

THIS is YOUR PC world. Think we are safe? They tried to blow up a block of Chicago last Saturday, and if they weren't set up by the FBI, Wrigleyville woulda been a war zone.

 

It is your American life along with your immediate familys. If we are at war, kill them.......period. No PC bullshit. Why are we putting billions into the military to make nice? Because we are PC trained, that's why. If we did that in the 40s, everyone today would be driving Volkswagons; only if the Fuhers replacement allowed you to.

[Edstock]

Paul Krugman of the New York TImes has some interesting observations

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/opinion/20krugman.html?src=me&ref=general

 

in an article "The Angry Rich"

 

You see, the rich are different from you and me: they have more influence. It’s partly a matter of campaign contributions, but it’s also a matter of social pressure, since politicians spend a lot of time hanging out with the wealthy. So when the rich face the prospect of paying an extra 3 or 4 percent of their income in taxes, politicians feel their pain — feel it much more acutely, it’s clear, than they feel the pain of families who are losing their jobs, their houses, and their hopes.

 

And when the tax fight is over, one way or another, you can be sure that the people currently defending the incomes of the elite will go back to demanding cuts in Social Security and aid to the unemployed. America must make hard choices, they’ll say; we all have to be willing to make sacrifices.

 

But when they say “we,” they mean “you.” Sacrifice is for the little people.

[rn4]

Paul Krugman of the New York TImes has some interesting observations

 

http://www.nytimes.c...=me&ref=general

 

in an article "The Angry Rich"

 

You see, the rich are different from you and me: they have more influence. It's partly a matter of campaign contributions, but it's also a matter of social pressure, since politicians spend a lot of time hanging out with the wealthy. So when the rich face the prospect of paying an extra 3 or 4 percent of their income in taxes, politicians feel their pain — feel it much more acutely, it's clear, than they feel the pain of families who are losing their jobs, their houses, and their hopes.

 

And when the tax fight is over, one way or another, you can be sure that the people currently defending the incomes of the elite will go back to demanding cuts in Social Security and aid to the unemployed. America must make hard choices, they'll say; we all have to be willing to make sacrifices.

 

But when they say "we," they mean "you." Sacrifice is for the little people.

 

Read the article in my local paper, the guy couldn't be more right, but the right wing supporters will come and say that it is all bs which will basicly proof his point.

[Trimdingman]

Paul Krugman of the New York TImes has some interesting observations

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/opinion/20krugman.html?src=me&ref=general

 

in an article "The Angry Rich"

 

You see, the rich are different from you and me: they have more influence. It’s partly a matter of campaign contributions, but it’s also a matter of social pressure, since politicians spend a lot of time hanging out with the wealthy. So when the rich face the prospect of paying an extra 3 or 4 percent of their income in taxes, politicians feel their pain — feel it much more acutely, it’s clear, than they feel the pain of families who are losing their jobs, their houses, and their hopes.

 

And when the tax fight is over, one way or another, you can be sure that the people currently defending the incomes of the elite will go back to demanding cuts in Social Security and aid to the unemployed. America must make hard choices, they’ll say; we all have to be willing to make sacrifices.

 

But when they say “we,” they mean “you.” Sacrifice is for the little people.

 

 

Taxation has reached the saturation point. The "little people" don't pay any tax. The reason why there are so many so called "little people" is because of too much government. The reason why there is so much pain and poverty in the country is because government is sucking it dry. The few and far between who have managed to maintain their wealth despite this onslaught are now being demonized. Government is the big demon.

[Mark B. Morrow]

Taxation has reached the saturation point. The "little people" don't pay any tax. The reason why there are so many so called "little people" is because of too much government. The reason why there is so much pain and poverty in the country is because government is sucking it dry. The few and far between who have managed to maintain their wealth despite this onslaught are now being demonized. Government is the big demon.

 

 

They do pay taxes, eventhough many are exempt from Income Tax, and the working poor pay a larger percentager of their income in tax than the wealthy do. This is especially true when comparing those who only pay capital gains taxes.

[xr7g428]

He is just throwing a hissy fit; pounding his fists on the floor, weeping into the carpet like a six year old. He wants the big old mean government to show those evil rich people a thing or two. He thinks he has some secret God given ability to decide exactly why it is better to tax some people more than others and he just can't come to grips with the fact that the people who earned that money don't agree with him. If he had to rub two facts together to make heat, he would freeze to death first.

[xr7g428]

Mark, does it hurt your teeth when you lie through them like that:

 

the working poor pay a larger percentager of their income in tax than the wealthy do.

 

Care to discuss the Alternative Minimum Tax?

[TStag]

Do lower taxes always translate into more jobs? What I don't understand about this argument in the US is that you seem to think that cutting taxes will automatically mean more jobs. But the problem is that in Europe we have higher taxes and yet in some countries we have more jobs (as a % of the total workforce available for work).

 

This kind of makes me question whether the US has already taken taxes a low as needed. Would cutting tax and spending actually make a big enough difference to change anything? Where's the evidence?

 

If you do cut taxes then it seem to me that you need a big cut to stimulate the economy. The US welfare and social security spending is already low. The only way I could see the US making a big enough cut in tax to get things moving again is maybe by cutting defence spending by at least 20%. But then surely you just make a lot of soldiers and factory workers involved in making weapons unemployed.

 

That's why I question whether in the US cutting taxes is going to help much. Your all ready cutting away in California and that's not helping is it?

 

It's well known that in the 30's Germany and America spent their way to economic salvation by investing in infrastructure. That rescued both economies at the time. In the UK we actually suffered more because we didn't do that. By 1939 Germany had lots of shiny air planes to bomb Europe with and we were desperately racing to build an airforce. Back in the 30's the British Economy was much like the US. E.g. Low tax and Spend. It didn't work then it won't work now.

[Cocheese]

Do lower taxes always translate into more jobs? What I don't understand about this argument in the US is that you seem to think that cutting taxes will automatically mean more jobs.

 

It is quite simple. The more money someone has, the more money they spend. The more money the spend, the more jobs are needed.

 

With the government charging more for essential services that they have a monopoly over, and increasing taxes, it means people have less money to spend. Less money spent, means less jobs.

 

Government can not create jobs. But they can eliminate them

 

This kind of makes me question whether the US has already taken taxes a low as needed. Would cutting tax and spending actually make a big enough difference to change anything? Where's the evidence?

 

You can't have both. You can't cut taxes and spend more money. That's what Obama is doing now, and it will put the US in a boat load of trouble.

 

Cut spending and cut taxes. Let the free market, which has been proven over and over again to be the best market on the planet, do it's thing

 

If you do cut taxes then it seem to me that you need a big cut to stimulate the economy. The US welfare and social security spending is already low. The only way I could see the US making a big enough cut in tax to get things moving again is maybe by cutting defence spending by at least 20%. But then surely you just make a lot of soldiers and factory workers involved in making weapons unemployed.

 

Twice now I've seen you advocate for less Military spending and more welfare spending. You seem to be portraying yourself as a left wing tree hugger.

 

The minute you start worrying more about the poor, is the minute you start having problems.

 

Establish an environment where the free market can create work. The economy needs the rich to create middle class jobs. And the economy needs middle class citizens to support it. A successful economy will allow everyone to work. Worrying about the poor is the last concern

 

That's why I question whether in the US cutting taxes is going to help much. Your all ready cutting away in California and that's not helping is it?

 

California is screwed up because of exactly what you seem to want. Everybody is getting a free ride, and they simply can't pay for it. If you want proof the "Nanny State" doesn't work, look west.

[Edstock]

It is quite simple. The more money someone has, the more money they spend. The more money the spend, the more jobs are needed. That ol' "Trickle Down" theory sure works well.

 

With the government charging more for essential services that they have a monopoly over, and increasing taxes, it means people have less money to spend. Less money spent, means less jobs.

 

Government can not create jobs. You mean like all the jobs that came from the Hoover Dam and the electrification of the South-West? Those jobs? But they can eliminate them

 

 

 

You can't have both. You can't cut taxes and spend more money. That's what Obama is doing now, and it will put the US in a boat load of trouble.

 

Cut spending and cut taxes. Let the free market, which has been proven over and over again to be the best market on the planet, do it's thing Just like Wall Street did with Bear Stearns, et al?

 

 

 

Twice now I've seen you advocate for less Military spending and more welfare spending. You seem to be portraying yourself as a left wing tree hugger.

 

The minute you start worrying more about the poor, is the minute you start having problems.

 

Establish an environment where the free market can create work. The economy needs the rich to create middle class jobs. In India and China and Korea? Because that's where the rich have outsourced those jobs. And the economy needs middle class citizens to support it. A successful economy will allow everyone to work. Worrying about the poor is the last concern Hell, grind 'em up and use 'em for fertilizer.

 

 

 

California is screwed up because of exactly what you seem to want. Everybody is getting a free ride, and they simply can't pay for it. If you want proof the "Nanny State" doesn't work, look west.

[fmccap]

Paul Krugman of the New York TImes has some interesting observations

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/opinion/20krugman.html?src=me&ref=general

 

in an article "The Angry Rich"

 

You see, the rich are different from you and me: they have more influence. Its partly a matter of campaign contributions, but its also a matter of social pressure, since politicians spend a lot of time hanging out with the wealthy. So when the rich face the prospect of paying an extra 3 or 4 percent of their income in taxes, politicians feel their pain feel it much more acutely, its clear, than they feel the pain of families who are losing their jobs, their houses, and their hopes.

 

And when the tax fight is over, one way or another, you can be sure that the people currently defending the incomes of the elite will go back to demanding cuts in Social Security and aid to the unemployed. America must make hard choices, theyll say; we all have to be willing to make sacrifices.

 

But when they say we, they mean you. Sacrifice is for the little people.

This is the last guy you should listen to. He likes to stretch the truth and outright lie.

Edited September 22, 2010 by fmccap

[fmccap]

Just like Wall Street did with Bear Stearns, et al?

What do you mean by this?

 

Just asking because he was referring to a free market, something we don't have nowadays. Unless you can give me an example of a true free market.