Blue Collar Guillotine

[davdog]

Their financial asses?What a joke .The people who do the labor make it possble for people like you to sit on their asses while gaining all the benefit.You actually belieive that you precious money is worth more than the labor that built it.And yes without the kid behind that counter Mcdonalds would not exist.You truly are a great American.Again that is why America is becoming a world leader in poverty growth.Best wishes to you.You truly deserve it.

 

 

Companies are started by someone willing to take a chance and back it up with money and hard work. Your job was created by such a person.

 

Of course the money to purchase the parts is worth more then the labor to assemble them. With no parts there is no need for labor.

 

 

Bank tellers are being replace by ATM machines and some day that kid behind the counter at McDonalds will be replaced by something similar.

 

Some americans are slipping into poverty because they aren't improving themselves as a product to perspective employers. How the hell long did you expect auto assembly to remain in this country? I think some of you actually think that Ford owes you a job.

[nappeeon]

YOUR RIGHT ASSEMBLERS DO A JOB FOR PAY! AND THE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR MARKETING HAVE A JOB TO DO ,THE ENGINEERS AND UPPER MANAGEMENT ALL HAVE JOBS THEY MUST DO!!

 

 

AS FAR AS THE PROPLE WHO PUT THEIR "FINANCIAL ASSES ON THE LINE" GO ,IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO THAT 30 PERCENT OF FORD STOCK WAS OWNED BY FORD WORKERS, SO WE DO PUT OUR FINANCIAL ASSES ON THE LINE AS WELL. WHEN SALES DROP IT ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE THE OVERPAID UAW'S FAULT,NEVER UPPER MANAGEMENTS FAULT. AFTERALL THEY ONLY APPROVED THE DESIGN OF THE CARS NOBODY WANTS TO BUY :shrug:

 

 

I GUESS THATS WHY BILL GOT THE 13 MILLION DOLLAR BONUS LAST YEAR, FOR MAKING ALL THE RIGHT DECISSIONS :happy feet: :happy feet: :unsure: :unsure:

[davdog]

YOUR RIGHT ASSEMBLERS DO A JOB FOR PAY! AND THE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR MARKETING HAVE A JOB TO DO ,THE ENGINEERS AND UPPER MANAGEMENT ALL HAVE JOBS THEY MUST DO!!

AS FAR AS THE PROPLE WHO PUT THEIR "FINANCIAL ASSES ON THE LINE" GO ,IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO THAT 30 PERCENT OF FORD STOCK WAS OWNED BY FORD WORKERS, SO WE DO PUT OUR FINANCIAL ASSES ON THE LINE AS WELL. WHEN SALES DROP IT ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE THE OVERPAID UAW'S FAULT,NEVER UPPER MANAGEMENTS FAULT. AFTERALL THEY ONLY APPROVED THE DESIGN OF THE CARS NOBODY WANTS TO BUY :shrug:

I GUESS THATS WHY BILL GOT THE 13 MILLION DOLLAR BONUS LAST YEAR, FOR MAKING ALL THE RIGHT DECISSIONS :happy feet: :happy feet: :unsure: :unsure:

 

 

Bill got 13 million last year because he was lucky enough to be born into a family that was a key player in a large auto company.

 

I'm not blaming the UAW for the issues ford is having. Ford management was on the other side of the table for every labor deal ever signed. Ford management also sucks at playing in a competitive market. I'd say the fault can be pretty evenly distributed from top to bottom.

 

I never said the UAW was overpaid in any of my posts, but it is pretty obvious by the pay ex ford assembly workers are now getting. I'm sure the same can be said of the ex-whitecollar workers as well.

[thegunslinger]

Bill got 13 million last year because he was lucky enough to be born into a family that was a key player in a large auto company.

 

I'm not blaming the UAW for the issues ford is having. Ford management was on the other side of the table for every labor deal ever signed. Ford management also sucks at playing in a competitive market. I'd say the fault can be pretty evenly distributed from top to bottom.

 

I never said the UAW was overpaid in any of my posts, but it is pretty obvious by the pay ex ford assembly workers are now getting. I'm sure the same can be said of the ex-whitecollar workers as well.

The only thing FoMoCo owes me is the pay that I earn, as well as a pension when the time comes based on my tenure of service. If the powers that be do not do something to get stocks on the upswing, there won't be a way forward plan, a Ford, or anything else for us for that matter. I do not believe that we are over compensated for what we do either. How many of us have seen people over the years that have been hired, the same way as all of us, and walked out the gate never to return because they could not do it? I have seen many, all of us have, no matter the plant. And for a myriad of reasons: It's too hot, it's too confining, the mental grind of the repetition is over the top, it hurts too much the next day, the list goes on. I myself am as guilty as the next for complaining about these and more. All of this makes for a job that is not for the masses, but someone has to do it. Unfortunatly, our skills may not be in as high demand as they once were. We all know why as well. The cuts and offshore manufacturing that is being enacted in this country can and will destroy our economy. Even your job. I do not know what you do for a living, but I do know this: If there are no customers, there will be no job. And in the future (maybe closer than we think) when no one can afford the service you may provide them, you shall suffer with the rest of us. I wish you no ill will, or anyone else for that matter. If the trade debacle in this country does not get resolved, we will then be forced to rent our country from those who purchased it with our own money. China already owns a good portion of our debt. What happens when they come to collect? We need product to build, not cuts, not handouts, not charity. We also need people at the top that will support their country, and not a wad of bills stuffed so high in a bank that even Ebenezer Scrooge would look like a panhandler.

[Heywood]

No one is inexpendable. What makes us so angry is said by you in your post: "Ford has too many employees and retirees relative to the demand for it's products". DEVELOP the products and we will build them. People do not buy managerial concepts and the like, as important as that is. People buy vehicles. That is what we do, and we do it quite well. The Japanese have no problem with this. A little easier for them since their GOV. protects it's own. Ours, sadly, once did this as well.

 

 

If Ford didn't have to pay the outrageous salaries and benefits packages to its employees (via extortionist tactics by the UAW), it would have a lot more money to DEVELOP the products. If you really believe product development is the answer, you should be willing to take a significant cut in salary and benefits to let that happen.

 

I also don't get why UAW people bash the very product they build and their customers, like in this post by SailorJohn:

 

Getting excited about a new Lincoln must make you what, around 65-70? Tough when you can only afford a Lincoln.

You know what SailorJohn? I'm in my mid-40s and can afford to buy any car I want. But you're right, next time I'll buy a Lexus. Would that work for you?

 

 

I hope whatever you do for a living becomes jeopardized soon because I am sure you will just shrug your shoulders and say "hey I'm just a casualty, oh well"..............

 

It will never happen because I work for myself. I can change the focus of my work on a weekly basis if necessary and do what advantageous opportunities come my way. Sad part is that you guys could do the same if you choose to, but many of you don't. Life is about choices, and you're making yours. Stop whining and deal with it.

[davdog]

The only thing FoMoCo owes me is the pay that I earn, as well as a pension when the time comes based on my tenure of service. If the powers that be do not do something to get stocks on the upswing, there won't be a way forward plan, a Ford, or anything else for us for that matter. I do not believe that we are over compensated for what we do either. How many of us have seen people over the years that have been hired, the same way as all of us, and walked out the gate never to return because they could not do it? I have seen many, all of us have, no matter the plant. And for a myriad of reasons: It's too hot, it's too confining, the mental grind of the repetition is over the top, it hurts too much the next day, the list goes on. I myself am as guilty as the next for complaining about these and more. All of this makes for a job that is not for the masses, but someone has to do it. Unfortunatly, our skills may not be in as high demand as they once were. We all know why as well. The cuts and offshore manufacturing that is being enacted in this country can and will destroy our economy. Even your job. I do not know what you do for a living, but I do know this: If there are no customers, there will be no job. And in the future (maybe closer than we think) when no one can afford the service you may provide them, you shall suffer with the rest of us. I wish you no ill will, or anyone else for that matter. If the trade debacle in this country does not get resolved, we will then be forced to rent our country from those who purchased it with our own money. China already owns a good portion of our debt. What happens when they come to collect? We need product to build, not cuts, not handouts, not charity. We also need people at the top that will support their country, and not a wad of bills stuffed so high in a bank that even Ebenezer Scrooge would look like a panhandler.

 

There are lots of jobs that people would rather not do. There are also a lot of jobs that are hard.

 

Auto assembly skills are only needed by auto companies and that has always been the case so I don't know what you mean by "Unfortunatly, our skills may not be in as high demand as they once were." Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there just as many autos being assembled in the US as there were in the past?

 

You're right, I could lose my job to someone who could do it cheaper, and that's the way it has always been. It keeps an employee on their toes, constantly improving their skill set.

 

There are plenty of customers out there, that's why auto sales are up. The thing is that the companies that are producing need to be lean and efficient, which is something the big 3 have not learned to be yet.

 

Manufacturing jobs have been leaving this country for cheaper labor for 50 years, but that is not the case with the auto industry, other then the big 3 of course, who must leave the country to start up a plant that doesn't have to deal with the UAW.

 

The UAW needs to change or it is just going to become a work force better to be avoided.

[unionj]

"Too many retirees?They built this company!"

 

You folks are losing touch with reality. Auto assemblers do a job for pay. The UAW did not build Ford. The people who put their financial asses on the line built ford AND created the jobs that you perform. Next you'll be telling me that kid behind the counter at McDonalds built McDonalds. I think a lot of you have been employed with the UAW for so long that you actually believe this crap.

A signed contract is a legal obligation! The retirees met all their requirements now the company has to hold up their end of the contract even if it means a little less in their pockets, but we know that will never happen.

Oh by the way how many shares of F do you think present employees and retirees own? I can assure you if we all decided to dump it would be devastating.

[unionj]

If Ford didn't have to pay the outrageous salaries and benefits packages to its employees (via extortionist tactics by the UAW), it would have a lot more money to DEVELOP the products. If you really believe product development is the answer, you should be willing to take a significant cut in salary and benefits to let that happen.

 

I also don't get why UAW people bash the very product they build and their customers, like in this post by SailorJohn:

You know what SailorJohn? I'm in my mid-40s and can afford to buy any car I want. But you're right, next time I'll buy a Lexus. Would that work for you?

It will never happen because I work for myself. I can change the focus of my work on a weekly basis if necessary and do what advantageous opportunities come my way. Sad part is that you guys could do the same if you choose to, but many of you don't. Life is about choices, and you're making yours. Stop whining and deal with it.

Actually I had a better benefit package at a prior employer with 6% matching 401k, paid med,dent,vision and more vacation time and a salary 20% less bit that was 6 years ago. Ford's present retirement is a joke also offset by social security. I chose just as you say you do but do not think for one minute it is the fault of the workers on the floor doing what is set forth by higher up's that is the downfall of this company.

Is the UAW innocent? NO! are they totally to blame NO! Stupid childish behaviour on the part of both Management and the UAW are to blame. Once again I will reemphasize it is the "US vs THEM" mentality that played a major role in the demise.

I know shit rolls down hill and the buck gets passed and the worker is the bottom of the hill or ladder but this issue far greater than a nut being loose!

Edited June 22, 2006 by unionj

[thegunslinger]

If Ford didn't have to pay the outrageous salaries and benefits packages to its employees (via extortionist tactics by the UAW), it would have a lot more money to DEVELOP the products. If you really believe product development is the answer, you should be willing to take a significant cut in salary and benefits to let that happen.

 

I also don't get why UAW people bash the very product they build and their customers, like in this post by SailorJohn:

You know what SailorJohn? I'm in my mid-40s and can afford to buy any car I want. But you're right, next time I'll buy a Lexus. Would that work for you?

It will never happen because I work for myself. I can change the focus of my work on a weekly basis if necessary and do what advantageous opportunities come my way. Sad part is that you guys could do the same if you choose to, but many of you don't. Life is about choices, and you're making yours. Stop whining and deal with it.

Toyota wages and benefits are very near our level. They are not UAW employees. When unfair trade eliminates the American autoworker and the UAW ceases to exist, they will have no competition, and drop the wages to their employees as well. As far as a salary cut, I could deal with that. I might not like it and I do apologize if this makes anyone mad, but I have to look out my family as best I can. Ford could sell the Detroit Lions for a few bucks I am sure, and fund a little more R&D. Another thing that makes things bad for us is that everyone in the world is allowed to import vehicles to this country. Now, I know that Ford sells many vehicles worldwide as well, but not in far East countries where the most competition is coming from. Japan and Korea import hardly any of our vehicles. If they hold the yen weak against the dollar, a new F-150 would cost about $75k. I have said before and will again: Their government is looking out for their best interests. Our government is not doing this. If they triied to do this the U.N. would fall into chaos and protests. But it needs to happen. Not just for the auto industry, for all American business that has been stifled in the global economy for these same reasons. Let us be fair, you buy from us, we buy from you. If this is manipulated by shady pratices, then a tariff will come. I know this sounds too "perfect case scenario" but if we try, maybe some headway could be made. One person, or one company is not going to get this done. All of us together on the other hand, could turn the tide.

[thegunslinger]

:boring: :boring: :boring:

 

Nice rant. Too bad it won't change a thing. But I hope it makes you feel better.

You blue collar UAW types just don't get it. You are an important asset to FoMoCo, but not inexpendible. Ford has too many workers (and retirees) relative to the demand for its products, and therefore some of you have to go for the company to survive. The company is more important than you are, its that simple. Frankly, I can't wait for Ford to dump some employees so it can direct more money to developing new products that I would like to buy -- like the new Lincoln MKS.

 

For whatever reason, you chose to go into automotive manufacturing (a highly competitive industry on a global scale). Current events are based on simple economics, and, regrettably, you guys are the casualties because you are the low men on the totem pole. Life ain't fair, but you gotta deal with it.

You "can't wait for Ford to dump some more emplyees" That is very insensitive and childish. Are you so selfish that would want others to suffer simply so you can have access to, in your opinion, have a better designed vehicle? If you were an autoworker like us, maybe you know how to do this yourself. We can work with our hands and our minds. We are survivors. We may not make the money such an important person such as yourself makes, but we can make it at our new jobs whatever they may be. If you lost your job today, could you? We did not say that we hoped you lose your job, why would you say such a thing to us. We have families that depend upon us as I am sure you do as well. I sincerly hope you don't teach your children these same sentiments.

[diamondhead]

You "can't wait for Ford to dump some more emplyees" That is very insensitive and childish. Are you so selfish that would want others to suffer simply so you can have access to, in your opinion, have a better designed vehicle? If you were an autoworker like us, maybe you know how to do this yourself. We can work with our hands and our minds. We are survivors. We may not make the money such an important person such as yourself makes, but we can make it at our new jobs whatever they may be. If you lost your job today, could you? We did not say that we hoped you lose your job, why would you say such a thing to us. We have families that depend upon us as I am sure you do as well. I sincerly hope you don't teach your children these same sentiments.

 

 

HE MIGHT HAVE A FAMILY, BUT , I,D BE WILLING TO BET EVERYONE OF THEM, IF HE IS A MAN , IS MALE-

IF SHE IS A FEMALE , I BET THEY ARE ALL WOMEN. IT IS FIXING TO GET NASTY AND WE NEED THESE FORD WANT,A,BE PEOPLE TO SHUT T F U AND LET US GET ON WITH TRYING TO GET SOME ORDER IN OUR LIFE .

HALF OF THESE PEOPLE ON BLO AIN,T GOT A F%$&^G CLUE WHAT IT IS LIKE TO JUST UP AND CHANGE YOUR WHOLE WAY OF LIFE. WE HAVE HIGH SCHOOL KIDS , KIDS IN COLLEGE ,LITTLE KIDS.

AND KNOW IF WE DON'T WANT TO TRANSFER WE JUST FIND WORK ELSWHERE ,WHEN, YOU HAVE 2 MAJOR AUTO PLANTS CLOSSING IN THE SAME AREA ? WHERE T F$%#%IS THE JOBS? YOU THANK NORFOLK IS MILITANT ? WELCOME TO THE SOUTH. I BET YOU CAN FIND AT LEAST 1 GUN IN 95% OF THE AUTOS IN OUR PARKING LOT BUT YOU CAN BET SECURITY AIN'T GOIN TO BE LOOKING! KNOW WHAT I MEAN VERN. DON'T MEAN TO RANT , BUT, TIME IS GETTIN SHORT! CAPTAIN= THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO- SEMM LIKE A SOLID GUY!

 

THE ONE- THE ONLY- DIAMONDHEAD!

THANK YOU -THANK YOU VERY MUCH! I'M THRU KNOW.

[sailorjohn]

If Ford didn't have to pay the outrageous salaries and benefits packages to its employees (via extortionist tactics by the UAW), it would have a lot more money to DEVELOP the products. If you really believe product development is the answer, you should be willing to take a significant cut in salary and benefits to let that happen.

 

I also don't get why UAW people bash the very product they build and their customers, like in this post by SailorJohn:

You know what SailorJohn? I'm in my mid-40s and can afford to buy any car I want. But you're right, next time I'll buy a Lexus. Would that work for you?

It will never happen because I work for myself. I can change the focus of my work on a weekly basis if necessary and do what advantageous opportunities come my way. Sad part is that you guys could do the same if you choose to, but many of you don't. Life is about choices, and you're making yours. Stop whining and deal with it.

[cecilmeyer]

Companies are started by someone willing to take a chance and back it up with money and hard work. Your job was created by such a person.

 

Of course the money to purchase the parts is worth more then the labor to assemble them. With no parts there is no need for labor.

Bank tellers are being replace by ATM machines and some day that kid behind the counter at McDonalds will be replaced by something similar.

 

Some americans are slipping into poverty because they aren't improving themselves as a product to perspective employers. How the hell long did you expect auto assembly to remain in this country? I think some of you actually think that Ford owes you a job.

Americans are slipping into poverty because their jobs are being outsourced to third world nations.You actually think that if you are well trained enough that will ensure you keep your job?I do not care how well you are trained if your job can be outsourced to a country where wages are a pittance your job will be gone.You say the money is worth more than the labor to assemble them?Money is only represenative of what it takes to make something.You can have all the money in the world but if you do not have people to do the work the money is worthless.Money did not build the pyramids labor did.Just what do you do for a living ?Maybe we should discuss how great it will be when you loose your job.Please tells us how the job you do is immune to outsourcing.As far as being owed something that is not how Uaw workers feel.We just believe that loyalty is a two way street.Ford took profits from North American operations for years to buy and prop up money loosing operations in Europe.Then when North American operations needs help they turn their backs on us and retool plants out of the country paying us back for our hardwork.Uaw workers are not asking for a handout just the opportunity to make a living.You said people with the finances are taking the risks?Most Uaw workers own stock in the auto industry and quite a few including myself have lost alot of money.So not only are we doing the manual labor we are also the ones as you said quote:Putting their financial asses on the line.

[thegunslinger]

Heywood, and davdog, I pose you a question, what do you two do for a living? Give us details. We know that you know what we do, and we want to know where you received your pearls of wisdom as far as auto manufacture and marketing is concerned. If you work for FoMoCo, then you have a little understanding about what is going on. If you do not work for FoMoCo, someone has lied to you and told you that you have insight and intellect about a subject that you have no business addressing. You quite simply, do not. I do not mean to insult your intelligence by any means. But do not assume that you know something that you have never experienced. Your posts to us let us know that you have accepted that knowledge and wisdom are the same thing. This is a grave error on your part. Patrick Henry once said: I have no light for my feet but the lamp of experience. Very truthful words. If you are versed in Fords way of life, so be it. But if you are not, your opinion is as the chaff blowing from freshly threshed wheat, worthless. If you are not a Ford employee, please, I beg you, do not bore us anymore with your foolish and uninformed opinions. Because you do not truly know what you are talking about. No offense, just facts. And please, before you mount your trusty soapbox in the name of redundant, uniformed rhetoric, TELL US IN DETAIL WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING!!!!!!How are you relavent to us? Don't cry about overpaid UAW workers, do not have fits of rage about the fact that you probably could not do our jobs as well as we could do YOURS! I understand. I think that you may have an inferiority complex that forces you to belittle other people to make yourself feel better. If I am wrong, I beg to be forgiven. If I am not, then look at yourself in the mirror tomorrow morning and repeat after me: I do not know what the hell I am talking about!!!!! CHALLENGE: Prove us wrong with your golden drops of knowledge that fall from your forked tongue.

Edited June 23, 2006 by thegunslinger

[unionj]

Just a quick note on the overpaid part.

I just received an offer to go to China and program some ABB Spot Welding Robots. Pay was $35 an hour, overtime at time and a half, all expences paid plus $50 a day for food. Seems to me some of our skills are not overpaid, even in the third world.

[thegunslinger]

Just a quick note on the overpaid part.

I just received an offer to go to China and program some ABB Spot Welding Robots. Pay was $35 an hour, overtime at time and a half, all expences paid plus $50 a day for food. Seems to me some of our skills are not overpaid, even in the third world.

Amen unionj, preach on about us "unskilled self absorbed" workers. We know what the HELL we are doing!!! Even third world countries know this!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited June 23, 2006 by thegunslinger

[sparks will fly]

Just a quick note on the overpaid part.

I just received an offer to go to China and program some ABB Spot Welding Robots. Pay was $35 an hour, overtime at time and a half, all expences paid plus $50 a day for food. Seems to me some of our skills are not overpaid, even in the third world.

 

Who was offering? an American company going to China like PICO or was it China's own? If it is an American co. of course they will offer you copetitive rate of pay otherwise most won't go. Most companies like PICO, Oxbow, Kuka, Dominion, PCU, etc. are not any different when it comes to going anywhere for the right price, the pay you are offered is already written in the cotract to do the job. After setup costs thats when Ford types will rake in the cash from the third world's daily grind.

[davdog]

Heywood, and davdog, I pose you a question, what do you two do for a living? Give us details. We know that you know what we do, and we want to know where you received your pearls of wisdom as far as auto manufacture and marketing is concerned. If you work for FoMoCo, then you have a little understanding about what is going on. If you do not work for FoMoCo, someone has lied to you and told you that you have insight and intellect about a subject that you have no business addressing. You quite simply, do not. I do not mean to insult your intelligence by any means. But do not assume that you know something that you have never experienced. Your posts to us let us know that you have accepted that knowledge and wisdom are the same thing. This is a grave error on your part. Patrick Henry once said: I have no light for my feet but the lamp of experience. Very truthful words. If you are versed in Fords way of life, so be it. But if you are not, your opinion is as the chaff blowing from freshly threshed wheat, worthless. If you are not a Ford employee, please, I beg you, do not bore us anymore with your foolish and uninformed opinions. Because you do not truly know what you are talking about. No offense, just facts. And please, before you mount your trusty soapbox in the name of redundant, uniformed rhetoric, TELL US IN DETAIL WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING!!!!!!How are you relavent to us? Don't cry about overpaid UAW workers, do not have fits of rage about the fact that you probably could not do our jobs as well as we could do YOURS! I understand. I think that you may have an inferiority complex that forces you to belittle other people to make yourself feel better. If I am wrong, I beg to be forgiven. If I am not, then look at yourself in the mirror tomorrow morning and repeat after me: I do not know what the hell I am talking about!!!!! CHALLENGE: Prove us wrong with your golden drops of knowledge that fall from your forked tongue.

 

 

I've never posted an insult to anyone, OK maybe Dark270, but no one else. I've never directly posted that you're overpaid, that is for you to decide when you go to get your next job. What I'm saying is that the present UAW is a failure, it shields the employees and turns a lot of them into the inefficient employees they are today. In other gigs they don't need to have 150 people hanging out waiting to fill in for people that don't show up, and that's just one example. I've lived with UAW people my whole life and have a very good understanding of the postion you are in now because of the UAW. People are being smacked around like rented mules at some plants yet they can't leave because they are stuck in their jobs. There is no pay ahead for a lot of them that will even come close to matching what they make today, and damn, call in sick 4 fridays in a row and you're canned, what the hell is this crap. I may not be describing you but I am certainily describing a LOT of your fellow workers and that layer between them and management is what is wrong. The UAW WAS a success at one time, today it is nothing but a failure.

 

What do I do? I'm in the IT field. I again will say that yes I could lose my job to cheaper labor also, but that is the way it is in the non unionized work force and the way it has been for a long time.

 

Could I do your job? No

Could you do my job? No

 

GM has IT, Wal-Mart has IT, clothing stores have IT, small real estate offices have IT needs. The list goes on and on. My bags are always packed. You may say that is the wrong way to have to work, but I say it keeps the crap workers out of our work force.

 

I have nothing against any worker, you just need to realize it is the UAW that has f'd you over.

[captamrica]

but do not think for one minute it is the fault of the workers on the floor doing what is set forth by higher up's that is the downfall of this company.

Is the UAW innocent? NO! are they totally to blame NO! Stupid childish behaviour on the part of both Management and the UAW are to blame. Once again I will reemphasize it is the "US vs THEM" mentality that played a major role in the demise.

I know shit rolls down hill and the buck gets passed and the worker is the bottom of the hill or ladder but this issue far greater than a nut being loose!

 

 

This is why I thought the FPS system was a great idea. I thought this was the way to begin to get rid of that "us vs. them" mentality and become more of a partnership relationship. In theory it looks great but you have to have cooperation on both sides of the aisle if it is going to work.

 

Instead I saw UAW cronies getting FPS jobs, although not all, some were truely qualified for them and embraced the program, others could not find their ass from a hole in the ground and yes there were supervisors with the same problem but you will find this anywhere you work.

 

On the other side of the aisle I saw the majority of FoMoCo management only paying lip service to it. All the while their actions were geared to destroying the program. Since it meant we (UAW workers) took on more of their responsibilities and thereby eliminating the need for so many supervisors.

 

FPS was just not about eliminating UAW jobs but more along the lines of eliminating supervision jobs. The only thing we needed a supervisor for was time keeping and disiplinary actions. We as assemblers know what needs to be done, we do not need a baby sitter (well, some did). Yes it did pit worker against worker to some extent but that is the nature of any job. After all this is OUR livelyhood that is at stake and I think we all have a personal responsibility to insure OUR jobs.

 

Just look at all the posts about slackers and career medicals. This is the proof that we all care about OUR jobs more then protecting UAW members because of solidarity. This is not about screwing your union brothers or sisters but more so about insuring OUR jobs and OUR families futures. These people only give the company more ammunition as to why the UAW is a problem and yes, they (company) do perpetuate it to some degree.

 

Unfortunately it seems the very plants that embraced this program and excelled at it are the ones that are now closed or slated for closure. There actions made no sense, talk about being disillusioned, I am/was, and have absolutely no trust or respect for this company, but who am I that FoMoCo should be concerned about that.

 

What they should be concerned about is the affect it will have on other plants that they plan to keep open. After seeing plants that jumped through every hoop they were told to jump through, receiving award after award for efficiency, quality, and excelling at every ISO or FPS audit but were still closed, what incentive do they have to continually improve? Yes, a paycheck should be incentive enough but when they ask you to take on more responsibilities with no pay increase and you know it does not insure your livelyhood, they may find many unwilling and asking why.

 

Maybe this is their goal, since it stands to stregthen the "us vs. them" mentality and thereby justifying their actions against union workers in the media and public forums. After all they agreed to SUB pay and the GEN pool, (it was GIS before that, Guaranteed Income Stream) both have been around for a long time (GEN since at least 1990, SUB since at least the 1970's). Yet now thanks to their ineptitude the company is faultering and these very programs are demonized in the media by the company. They have had over 20 years to change or eliminate them. However, it makes for good fodder to feed the public as to why they should support the company's position and not the UAW employees. This helps prevent a backlash against them.

 

Given our county's Wal-Mart mentality and our current political adminstration, the time is right for the company to strike against the union, not to mention our union has become just as self preservationist as any political entity. These are dark days for us and even if you do not believe I pray for us all that we emerge from this better and stronger then before, no matter what hand is dealt us as individuals.

[captamrica]

Heywood, and davdog, I pose you a question, what do you two do for a living? Give us details. We know that you know what we do, and we want to know where you received your pearls of wisdom as far as auto manufacture and marketing is concerned. If you work for FoMoCo, then you have a little understanding about what is going on. If you do not work for FoMoCo, someone has lied to you and told you that you have insight and intellect about a subject that you have no business addressing. You quite simply, do not. I do not mean to insult your intelligence by any means. But do not assume that you know something that you have never experienced. Your posts to us let us know that you have accepted that knowledge and wisdom are the same thing. This is a grave error on your part. Patrick Henry once said: I have no light for my feet but the lamp of experience. Very truthful words. If you are versed in Fords way of life, so be it. But if you are not, your opinion is as the chaff blowing from freshly threshed wheat, worthless. If you are not a Ford employee, please, I beg you, do not bore us anymore with your foolish and uninformed opinions. Because you do not truly know what you are talking about. No offense, just facts. And please, before you mount your trusty soapbox in the name of redundant, uniformed rhetoric, TELL US IN DETAIL WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING!!!!!!How are you relavent to us? Don't cry about overpaid UAW workers, do not have fits of rage about the fact that you probably could not do our jobs as well as we could do YOURS! I understand. I think that you may have an inferiority complex that forces you to belittle other people to make yourself feel better. If I am wrong, I beg to be forgiven. If I am not, then look at yourself in the mirror tomorrow morning and repeat after me: I do not know what the hell I am talking about!!!!! CHALLENGE: Prove us wrong with your golden drops of knowledge that fall from your forked tongue.

 

 

I have no idea about heywood but davdog is in the IT field and has gone through a few job changes over the years and has family members that are directly effected by FoMoCo's recent actions, hence his passion about the subject. He seems to be intellegent and has changed his retoric over the last few months to be more compassionate to our plight, obviously not by much but it is still progress. His job would be one that would not be easy to but still could be shipped off shore since he takes care of the hardware as well as the software side of the equipment. Arch nemesis:dark270 :D Had to throw that in there you two make me laugh.

 

We have had many debates over different issues in the past and he has put up some compelling aurguements but occansionally, as do we all, falls below his potential or maybe I should say he drops to his adversary's level. I feel some of his posts may be motivated from watching a loved one go through the emotional and physical devestation of FoMoCo's "Way Forward" with no way to help them. We know how this can be since we are watching it first hand in our own homes. He has told me he knows many autoworkers and has been around them most of his life, so this is where is knowledge base comes from.

 

davdog

I hope you do not take offense to my comments, none was intended and I'm sure you can speak for yourself but you know me and I had to throw in my 2 cents. Good luck to you and yours.

 

 

Whoops I should have read a little more of the posts before writing this one. Sorry I did not see your reply.

Edited June 23, 2006 by Captamrica

[thegunslinger]

I've never posted an insult to anyone, OK maybe Dark270, but no one else. I've never directly posted that you're overpaid, that is for you to decide when you go to get your next job. What I'm saying is that the present UAW is a failure, it shields the employees and turns a lot of them into the inefficient employees they are today. In other gigs they don't need to have 150 people hanging out waiting to fill in for people that don't show up, and that's just one example. I've lived with UAW people my whole life and have a very good understanding of the postion you are in now because of the UAW. People are being smacked around like rented mules at some plants yet they can't leave because they are stuck in their jobs. There is no pay ahead for a lot of them that will even come close to matching what they make today, and damn, call in sick 4 fridays in a row and you're canned, what the hell is this crap. I may not be describing you but I am certainily describing a LOT of your fellow workers and that layer between them and management is what is wrong. The UAW WAS a success at one time, today it is nothing but a failure.

 

What do I do? I'm in the IT field. I again will say that yes I could lose my job to cheaper labor also, but that is the way it is in the non unionized work force and the way it has been for a long time.

 

Could I do your job? No

Could you do my job? No

 

GM has IT, Wal-Mart has IT, clothing stores have IT, small real estate offices have IT needs. The list goes on and on. My bags are always packed. You may say that is the wrong way to have to work, but I say it keeps the crap workers out of our work force.

 

I have nothing against any worker, you just need to realize it is the UAW that has f'd you over.

davdog, I was mad at what Heywood said about dumping more employees and I included you in the post. I was out of line on that and hope you accept my apology. I was wrong to include you because you do not post insults. We may disagree on things, but that is a healthy thing to question each other from time to time. Again, I am sorry for putting you in as well.

[Heywood]

Heywood, and davdog, I pose you a question, what do you two do for a living? Give us details. We know that you know what we do, and we want to know where you received your pearls of wisdom as far as auto manufacture and marketing is concerned. If you work for FoMoCo, then you have a little understanding about what is going on. If you do not work for FoMoCo, someone has lied to you and told you that you have insight and intellect about a subject that you have no business addressing. You quite simply, do not. I do not mean to insult your intelligence by any means. But do not assume that you know something that you have never experienced. Your posts to us let us know that you have accepted that knowledge and wisdom are the same thing. This is a grave error on your part. Patrick Henry once said: I have no light for my feet but the lamp of experience. Very truthful words. If you are versed in Fords way of life, so be it. But if you are not, your opinion is as the chaff blowing from freshly threshed wheat, worthless. If you are not a Ford employee, please, I beg you, do not bore us anymore with your foolish and uninformed opinions. Because you do not truly know what you are talking about. No offense, just facts. And please, before you mount your trusty soapbox in the name of redundant, uniformed rhetoric, TELL US IN DETAIL WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING!!!!!!How are you relavent to us? Don't cry about overpaid UAW workers, do not have fits of rage about the fact that you probably could not do our jobs as well as we could do YOURS! I understand. I think that you may have an inferiority complex that forces you to belittle other people to make yourself feel better. If I am wrong, I beg to be forgiven. If I am not, then look at yourself in the mirror tomorrow morning and repeat after me: I do not know what the hell I am talking about!!!!! CHALLENGE: Prove us wrong with your golden drops of knowledge that fall from your forked tongue.

 

OK, I'll bite.

 

I'm an economist for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers (http://www.autoalliance.org/about/). I look at the big picture in worldwide automobile manufacturing and marketing, and I can assure you that I am far more informed about what is going on in the industry than you are. I fully understand what is going on with Ford employees, and I'm sorry you guys are in the predicament you are, but in my world, workers are just another resource in a manufacturing company that has to be managed. I don't mean to be harsh or insensitive to your situation, but that's the way I have to look at things.

[thegunslinger]

OK, I'll bite.

 

I'm an economist for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers (http://www.autoalliance.org/about/). I look at the big picture in worldwide automobile manufacturing and marketing, and I can assure you that I am far more informed about what is going on in the industry than you are. I fully understand what is going on with Ford employees, and I'm sorry you guys are in the predicament you are, but in my world, workers are just another resource in a manufacturing company that has to be managed. I don't mean to be harsh or insensitive to your situation, but that's the way I have to look at things.

After reading what you do for a living, perhaps you are more informed than I, and I have no doubt that you must approach your job in a business not personal mindset. And the harshness that I posted may have been uncalled for, but the remark about "dumping some more Ford employees" was still rather stinging to me. I do not wish that would lose your job. Nor would I state that on this site. Have a heart when it comes to people such as I that are in a state of limbo and uncertainty about our future and welfare. I apologize for the insults, I was upset, and I let that affect my reasoning. My mistake.

[dark270]

I've never posted an insult to anyone, OK maybe Dark270, but no one else. I've never directly posted that you're overpaid, that is for you to decide when you go to get your next job.

 

 

 

 

all i know is..your a LIAR.....and a jealous LYING pig....

 

 

may 13 2006, 02:49 PM

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davdog User is offline

BlueOval New Member

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Joined: 23-January 06

Posts: 213

 

 

 

Oh yeah, make the US consumer pay inflated prices to support inflated salaries in the auto industry for years and years when there is not competition, and when the competition comes around cry like little bitches because some people won't blindly do it anymore.

 

 

said we are not over paid ?? what's this ?

[chubby]

OK, I'll bite.

 

I'm an economist for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers (http://www.autoalliance.org/about/). I look at the big picture in worldwide automobile manufacturing and marketing, and I can assure you that I am far more informed about what is going on in the industry than you are.

HEY! HEY! HEY !HEY,,,, HEYWOOD!!!! I dont see Ford lowering the prices of their cars hecho en Mexico!!!!! They are manufacturing in Mexico in order to increase Fords profit margin.I was watching a stock market program on cable and all of the panelist were knowledgeable about the automotive industry.So the question comes around where did Ford go wrong?What were their key mistakes?A panelist responded by saying that Fords mistakes are so numerous that he could teach an entire semester long class at the school where he is a business professor-HARVARD- about what Ford did wrong.You are giving the hourly workers TOO much blame.Management runs the company.There was NO strike!The hourly workers individually do not have the power to mess things up that bad.Have you ever seen the inside of a plant?Fords management is very arrogant.How can JUNIOR be in touch with his employees.How can JUNIOR even have the knowledge about life and the way people are enough to run the Ford Motor Company?Now alot of other companies balance sheets BLOW FORD out of the water.There is more to the business world than the automobile industry.You have to remember that the hourly people commenting on these forums have a sweat equity in Ford Motor Company.The hourly workers are Fords best customers and are also shareholders.I do not know how well informed you are about the industry but I do know that you dont know what it is like{DEGRADING} to work inside these plants.Damn typing with one finger is hard!!!!!! http://www.nascocorridor.com