zoomerjrt Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I see quite a fair number of Freestyles on the road around here (Maryland) and there's nothing tied to Ford outside of dealers here within 300 miles. Most of the ones I see are driven by typical 40-something suburbanites, which I do believe was their target demographic. I have home in Dallas and bought a Focus back in March from a dealer down there. The salesman told me that the owner of the dealership told Ford not to send any Freestyles unless they order one. When I bought my Focus they had 6 2005's still on the lot and my salesman told me they would get a $2500 bounse to get them off the lot. Like I said if sales are so great why is my line only running 3 days a week and laid off for till August 14th, then i'm being told that we are on 2 of 2 untill Christmas. If sales are so great we'd be running at least 8hrs a day with no lay off BOTTOM LINE!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I have home in Dallas and bought a Focus back in March from a dealer down there. The salesman told me that the owner of the dealership told Ford not to send any Freestyles unless they order one. When I bought my Focus they had 6 2005's still on the lot and my salesman told me they would get a $2500 bounse to get them off the lot. Like I said if sales are so great why is my line only running 3 days a week and laid off for till August 14th, then i'm being told that we are on 2 of 2 untill Christmas. If sales are so great we'd be running at least 8hrs a day with no lay off BOTTOM LINE!!!!! I didn't say they are selling GREAT, just that they aren't selling like shit. They are consistently moving ~6000 a month. That's certainly not horrible for a glorified station wagon. Your plant is moving slow more because the Five Hundred and Montego are not picking up the slack at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 The wagon is a flop!!! If it wasn't a flop I'd work more then 3days a week and we'd have two shifts building dashes for it. The only people buying them are Ford emplyoee's and old ladies. Just ask a 18-40yr old that doesn't have ties to Ford what they think. What type of volume did Ford expect out of that crossover anyhow? Damn near 7k units is not considered a flop, regardless as to how many days/hours/mins you work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I have home in Dallas and bought a Focus back in March from a dealer down there. The salesman told me that the owner of the dealership told Ford not to send any Freestyles unless they order one. When I bought my Focus they had 6 2005's still on the lot and my salesman told me they would get a $2500 bounse to get them off the lot. Like I said if sales are so great why is my line only running 3 days a week and laid off for till August 14th, then i'm being told that we are on 2 of 2 untill Christmas. If sales are so great we'd be running at least 8hrs a day with no lay off BOTTOM LINE!!!!! Well, I'm going to assume that you build dashes for the Five Hundred and Montego as well--since they're basically the same dash (correct me if I'm wrong). Now, Ford's on target to sell about 210k D3s this year, which is about what they sold last year, from a single plant with a capacity of about 240k units on 2 shifts. So, Ford would be at capacity with 30k more units (or about 2500 more units per month). Now, if your plant makes dashes for all three of these vehicles, I don't think taking the Chicago plant to capacity would take your plant to capacity. ERGO, the problem is not with Ford, it's with your employer. Seems to me that Ford's D3s would have to be occupying 2 plants to justify having one plant build dashes for them. Maybe I'm off base here, so please correct me if I am.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinneticBrian Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 In my opinion there's just not enough to differentiate the STS & the CTS for the common person, despite them being two completely different cars, the CTS bulky resembling a family sedan, while the STS thin with an athletic poise. I think the mistake was making the STS a better version of the CTS (style-wise), when it should have been a cheaper version of the XLR (with four & two door models). When I test drove the STS I thought it was missing something, either the drive or interior just didn't feel like a $50k car. I wanted the car to feel like a coupe or a performance sedan, but it just didn't, granted I was only in the 255hp v6. The STS is a huge mistake on several levels. First, it's overpriced for what you get. When you can buy a fully loaded DTS for less than a V-6 powered STS, and the DTS will suck the chrome off of it performance wise, you have a marketing problem. Perhaps the ultimate smack down on the STS is the Buick Lucerne. Totally loaded, in V-8 form, it has more style, better performance and more refinement than the STS can hope for. It is an unbelievably impressive car. Second, offering a V-6 and a V-8 version and inflating the price on both to make it seem more competitive with Mercedes-Benz E-Class is stupid - it more resembles Oldsmobile's failed Aurora marketing during the last years of that company. Finally - I have yet to hear anyone - media, owner or enthusiast say that the STS is actually better than the car it replaced. If the new CTS looks like this, I'm going to say the STS is more dead than the Oldsmobile 98. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoomerjrt Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Well, I'm going to assume that you build dashes for the Five Hundred and Montego as well--since they're basically the same dash (correct me if I'm wrong). Now, Ford's on target to sell about 210k D3s this year, which is about what they sold last year, from a single plant with a capacity of about 240k units on 2 shifts. So, Ford would be at capacity with 30k more units (or about 2500 more units per month). Now, if your plant makes dashes for all three of these vehicles, I don't think taking the Chicago plant to capacity would take your plant to capacity. ERGO, the problem is not with Ford, it's with your employer. Seems to me that Ford's D3s would have to be occupying 2 plants to justify having one plant build dashes for them. Maybe I'm off base here, so please correct me if I am.... We have two lines, one for the bingo hauler 500/Montego and my line for the Freestyle. Because the sales of the Freestyle are just about zero we only work 3days to and one shift for the Freestyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 (edited) We have two lines, one for the bingo hauler 500/Montego and my line for the Freestyle. Because the sales of the Freestyle are just about zero we only work 3days to and one shift for the Freestyle. Odd. Freestyle volume was--even by Ford's most optimistic projections--never expected to be HALF of all D3 volume at Chicago. Why they would align production of dashes out of sync with the planned product mix baffles me. Especially since you would think that you could build either dash on the same line. Edited July 25, 2006 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecon Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I'm sorry, how are GM's sales these days? They release their second quarter results Wednesday. A big profit is expected. Does it matter what ford sells in Europe when they sell complete shit here? Also sales don't equal how good a vehicle is because someone could easily own you when you say how crappy camry's are. You are just soo blindly braindead for ford it is pathetic. And for the last time the freestyle is a big giant flop THAT EVEN FORD ADMITTED but somehow you fail to think it is. They said they didn't have the customer in mind when they made the car. RJ must work for Ford. He is not so stupid to spend all that time defending Ford for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 They release their second quarter results Wednesday. A big profit is expected. yeah right - a MODEST profit is expected ..... say a couple million - after they write off some 3 billion of restructuring costs. BEtter than Ford, but no champagne. RJ must work for Ford.He is not so stupid to spend all that time defending Ford for free. I find it laughable that everyone who has insider info and or defends Ford (see their perspective) it calld an ostrich or an employee .. or directly Mark Fields ... I guess being optimistic is not considered a valid point of view anymore in BOF ... Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 The Freestyle may not be a lot of things, but it's far from the HUGE FLOP you make it out to be. Last I checked I do not recall Ford Exec's refering to the Freestyle as such. A sales disappointment yes, but a flop I highly doubt that one. Freestyle is a Flop. 500 is a flop. U sastisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Freestyle is a Flop. 500 is a flop. U sastisfied. No. There is no weight to your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 No. There is no weight to your argument. Are they in the top 20 in sales. Or maybe 30 in sales or 40. Its sales related. How long is it going to take to crack to the top 10. What are there sales level as related to inventory along with demand. Flop or not your not happy at all with this data> :burnout: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Are they in the top 20 in sales. Or maybe 30 in sales or 40. Its sales related. How long is it going to take to crack to the top 10. What are there sales level as related to inventory along with demand. Flop or not your not happy at all with this data> :burnout: The problem is with your perspective. Not with the vehicles. At most, Ford would like another 30k units or so of D3 volume per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) The 500 may end up with some fleet duty once the Taurus is gone. Edited July 26, 2006 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 The 500 may end up with some fleet duty once the Taurus is gone. Fields said market share was going to be brutal in the second half. I can only assume this means Ford is shuttering Atlanta ASAP. Also should put to rest myths that Ford 'must be making money on the Taurus' because 'the tooling's paid for'. Fleet volume on the Five Hundred should be pretty minimal, however. It's not going to come anywhere near Taurus levels either as a percentage or as a total. All of Atlanta was fleet output. the Five Hundred is only about half of Chicago output, and fleet volume should be less than a fifth of that. Ford is slowing the line in Chicago for a few weeks in November. This suggests that they are not planning on turning fleet business over to the Five Hundred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 I actually like the Freestyle. The problem with it is the price tag. They start at like 26 large and go up. That's a chuck of change. I could see 21 to 24 grand. It's just too expensive. I'd wager that when they start to drop the line they'll offer some great deals on them and then people will get them for a steal and end up with a really nice car for a good price. I also think a massive issue with the Freestyle is the name -- there's nothing free-feeling with a car that drives like a 500 and looks like an small-sized Explorer. Someone on here recommended the Freestyle be renamed the 500 Sport Wagon -- I totally agree. Are they in the top 20 in sales. Or maybe 30 in sales or 40. Its sales related. How long is it going to take to crack to the top 10. What are there sales level as related to inventory along with demand. Flop or not your not happy at all with this data> :burnout: It's a new world now -- all these people go and buy foreign in enough numbers that the top 20 is filled with those vehicles (when not including fleet sales). So, you should be asking if it's in the top 40, not top 20 anymore. Hell, the Sable was the #20 most popular vehicle for 1996. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 They release their second quarter results Wednesday. A big profit is expected. WHOOOPS!!!! GM Posts $3.2 Billion 2Q Loss :fan: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 WHOOOPS!!!! GM Posts $3.2 Billion 2Q Loss :fan: THis figure includes buyout and Gmac write-offs. One time charges. Their revenue is up for the first time in two years. WHOOPS!!! 900.000 F series WHOOPS!!! Another Bold Statement that will ve changed in 2 to 3 months. :sandbox: :poke: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 THis figure includes buyout and Gmac write-offs. One time charges. Their revenue is up for the first time in two years. WHOOPS!!! 900.000 F series WHOOPS!!! Another Bold Statement that will ve changed in 2 to 3 months. :sandbox: :poke: Excluding one-time charges, Ford made money too. What's your point? In the end, a loss is a loss is a loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Excluding one-time charges, Ford made money too. What's your point? In the end, a loss is a loss is a loss. What one-time charge for the 2nd qtr caused the 123 million loss? If Ford is making money why are they revitalizing the way forward? Why is Gm's stock up 30% for the year. GM has shed 1/3 of its workers, which even has Wall Street saying Ford your moving snailish. There are more reasons but this is enough for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Actually, Ford lost about $43M before onetime charges in Q2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Actually, Ford lost about $43M before onetime charges in Q2. I stand corrected. I still don't see how reporting a $123 million loss is worse than reporting a $3.2 billion loss though. One-time charges or not, it's still a loss. Wasn't Ford's North American revenue up last quarter also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoomerjrt Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 I stand corrected. I still don't see how reporting a $123 million loss is worse than reporting a $3.2 billion loss though. One-time charges or not, it's still a loss. Wasn't Ford's North American revenue up last quarter also? I get the biggest kick out of this bickering!!! Bottom line is Ford is in a world of hurt and there is no end in sight!! We only have an egg shapped thing called the Edge coming out, Fusion is Mexican built, thanks to the UAW. It was supposed to be Atlanta replacement but the union some years back believed the Taruas would live forever. Lipstick and eye shaddow are not going to bring up sales on old product that isn't selling!!! Ford wouldn't be shedding 30,000 if sales where good. Billy and Fields have no idea what to do that is very obvious. So instead of bickering call your local reps and complain to them!!! If sales continue to fall which seems to be the trend, PLO are on there way. We need company wide buyouts to make room for our members that need there job, and buyouts packages to allow other to move on. Our union can make this happen, it happened at GM. Problem is head count head count they have to some how pay for bowling towels, jackets, dinner, trips to Vegas, flights to Blacklack all on our dime!!!!!! SAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Are they in the top 20 in sales. Or maybe 30 in sales or 40. Its sales related. How long is it going to take to crack to the top 10. What are there sales level as related to inventory along with demand. Flop or not your not happy at all with this data> :burnout: I'm sorry, because a vehicle doesn't make it into the top 20, 30, or 40 sales arena it's a flop? Where's the logic behind that, and hell while you were at it why didn't you say top 50, 60, 70.......... :blah: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 I'm sorry, because a vehicle doesn't make it into the top 20, 30, or 40 sales arena it's a flop? Where's the logic behind that, and hell while you were at it why didn't you say top 50, 60, 70.......... :blah: For the US autoworker and plants being at 75% utilization. Market-share decrease if no cars in the top 25. ETc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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