Reality Is Setting In Here At CAP

[Decker]

The membership both active and retiree, has been on the receiving end of a large part of the burden when it comes to the helping, keeping the competitivenes and the restructuring of Ford Motor Company.

 

We`ve been told time and time again how we the active and retired members need to consider the down side of the possibility of Ford going Bankrupt.

 

I`m sure all were told by IUAW more than a few times how we should, need and have too... secure our futures by doing the right thing..... Then I`m sure most remember how things progressed when some locals voted in a manner that was not pleasing to the IUAW... Remember the youtube postes, the confrontational meetings at the local halls and all the you better or else messages and points of veiw our IUAW put out there?

 

I beleive the membership got the message and now we see the fruits of the negotiations.

 

Yes, we see better earnings (overtime at most plants) and yes we see more people getting employment. But at what cost? People working in forced overtime situations. People working for half what the majority of others are being paid. A system being put into place to reduce or eliminate premium overtime pay. And a "Crew" that will see a four day work schedule that will inclued working holidays as a mandatory scheduled day.

 

I bring this up because I have a question for the membership.... "Do you think the business partners (IUAW andFord) are done restructuring Ford Motor Company???

 

I know most will say "No". But stop and think for just a few minutes. What other things can be restructured? More tier 2 people coming in? Even more right of choice being slipped away? Less benefits for our retired sisters and brothers? Well maybe??

 

There is one avenue that the restructuring hasn`t started down, yet. For all the business partners.

 

Basicly restructuring in any business big, small and MEGA like Ford, the company will come around to take a close look at all expenditures. Ford has done just that with their creditors. Ford reduced (negotiated) the amount it owed on more than a few occasions. Ford went to the local, city and state goverments and received reduced, abated and in some cases no tax liabilities for long periods of time. And of course we all know the restructuring of the companies labor cost in the present contract. There are more like these under the magnifying class with hopes they will add to the bottom line in a positive way.

 

But, there is one avenue of restructuring that isn`t talked about much... this avenue is one that Ford has a real nack for. I guess we at Ford don`t hear much about this restructuring because the venders are always outside entities. You know, business partners. They come and go without concern for the time clock. They get to use the phones and set up in office space. Possibly get a free meal now and then. But, when the business genius of Ford Motor company comes into play, this avenue can be a dark and scary road to travel. Just ask any vender Ford still has as a business partner.....

 

Now there is one vendor that hasn`t seen much resturcturing, so far. What if Ford starts looking at this vendor and starts restucturing its place as a business partner? Ford might look at how much is paid to represent the vendors supplied labor? Maybe Ford will work out some reduction but allow for the business partner, vendor to see an increase in their income by reallocation of their staff?

 

Just a thought, reduce the cost of each plants operating cost. Then throw some of the reduced cost at the vendor to offset the costs the vendor has in its everyday operations... WIN!!! WIN!!! Right?

 

Look at it like this. Every plant pays for lets say 4 heads (yeah, I know not a nice way to put it, but its business) to represent the labor that the vendor sells to Ford. These 4 heads do the authority figure type of operation. Make decisions on who gets what when it comes to days off, getting excused and how the overtime is handed out. And of course these heads sit at a table and make the deals that show up in a contract. Not at all plant do these heads sit at that table... (Local Contract, got one?) OK, think busines partners....

 

Ford puts on the table, to the vendor, (IUAW) a plan to put the same amount the head of the heads gets for a full year of earnings in the vendors account and in return reduces all 4 heads worth of yearly income that Ford would show as a restructuring benefits....? The vendor thinks, one years earnings multiplied by all the heads of the heads at all the plants.... Hmmm what do you think the vendor is going to do???

 

Well, hows this for some restructuring on the vendors part? The announcement is made.... drum role please.... Due to a restructuring the IUAW will be shifting some of its leaderships responceabilities as listed:

 

1) All Barganing units will fullfil their terms in office then return to their picked out operations.

2) Committee persons will continue to be the memberships first line of repersentation. (do everything, dam it)

3) Regional Servicing Rep`s will assume the part time role as head of the heads.

 

WIN....WIN..... 160K a year from each plant that one business partner is now in control of and lets just say half a MILLION baby!!! at each plant in operating cost RESTRUCTURING SAVINGS!!!!!!!!!

 

NAAAA.... never happen ........ (Business is Business)

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

[CAPlineWORKER]

In reality, C-Crew is the most expensive crew to operate... There is the 10% shift premium for all of those on that shift... yes, there are mostly low-seniority people there, but the majority of them make the first-tier wage. At $28.24/hour, that's an extra $2.82 per hour, per person, that the company has to shell out.

 

Anyone with any knowledge of the contract should know that if you work the holiday, you can convert your holiday pay to personal time. That has been in the contract for years. In the case of C-Crew, however, national holidays scheduled as regular days of work can't be converted. You have to work on the "observed" holiday in order to be eligible for conversion. That's just one of the pitfalls of working C-Crew. There are too many more to mention, so don't get me started.

 

It is frustrating to have to work on a company holiday only to realize you are only getting straight time for it - trust me, this comes from experience. This is what happens when the company puts wording in LOU's that benefits them without the UAW realizing it.

 

DTP has been doing "Super Days" for a few years now. It's the nature of the beast. But, two crews will NEVER overlap each other - they simply come in at their normal time, albeit on a normal day off. I don't know how CAP's 3-Crew system will (or does) work, but the way it works at DTP, if a "Super" day is scheduled, A-Crew comes in on Sunday at 6am, and B-Crew comes in Saturday at 5:30pm. The only differences are that they can't work you more than 10 on a super day, and that it's one of your scheduled days off, which is guaranteed overtime. C-Crew does not have any additional slots to come in, therefore they never get the chance to work a "Super" day (they can't get called in either). That's just how it works.

 

We are all creatures of habit, and it sucks when starting times get changed and there's nothing you can do about it. This is the auto industry - never expect the expected.

 

Also, don't think for a second that bumping to another crew means you get to keep your same job. Here at LAP, yes, you may be able to bump to another shift... The asterisk in all of that is that you DO NOT necessarily get to keep your same job - you go to available work. I guess that's how the company wants it from now on... don't quote me on that though.

 

C-Crew SUCKS. After 14 months of it, all I can say is this... If you want a shift like that, then more power to you. Otherwise, be prepared. Your body will most likely not get used to it and your record will suffer because of it (speaking from personal experience).

 

 

You sound like you have some experience with the A, B, & C crew.

 

When A Crew worked Sunday's was it double time?

Edited May 11, 2012 by CAPlineWORKER

[LadyJaguar]

It is at DTP which is wrong cause B crew don't get double time

[qwertyuiop]

A-Crew is entitled to time and a half on Friday & Saturday, and double time on Sunday.

 

B-Crew is entitled to time and a half on Saturday and Monday, and double time on Sunday. Ask anyone how this is fair - Monday is technically your third day off... BUT since the pay week starts on a Monday, it becomes your "first" day off, so it only gets T+1/2 premium.

[Decker]

Contractual language is key.....

 

The traditional contract stated and refers to Premium Time as, any hours after 8, any hours after 40. Then the two days of premium time paid, no matter if you reached the other requirements are, Saturday at 50% above straight time for every hour worked and 100% above straight time for every hour worked, "Sunday".

 

The key to the traditional language is the word "premium".

 

The present contract lanuage made the first part or the magical word "premium" drop from our language.... No "premium" for anything over 8 hours a day. Unless, the employee reaches the requirement of 40 hours. Then the language states and only then, the employee will receive 50% over straight time for every hour worked. Saturday Premium also Sunday Premium has language in the present contract that is almost the same language as in the traditional contractual language.

 

Then...in this present contract, Ford startes to talk some other langage, the language spoke in some galaxy far far away in a board room where the people talk of "REDUCTION OF COST".... Poof, the "AWS" is born.

 

Now take a look at the white pages or contract (what ever) and you`ll notice the word "premium" never sits beside either word "Saturday" or "Sunday". There is a mystical grouping of three letter of the alphabet "RDO" in this new language. Now here and there in this new language there is reference to the old language "Premium", but one has to mix in these mystical three letters to be able to receive the magical "Premium" word.

 

Ok, enough of that silly shit.

 

Work "7"... "Seven"... days in one "7' day pay period and magic!!!! You will receive Double Time for the "7th"... "seventh" day worked.

 

The plain language on the Mystical "AWS" is those three magical letters "RDO" are put right in there to reduce labor costs and reduce the chances labor well have the opportunity to reach that... took for granted, automatic and so rewarding "Premium Days of the week" "Saturday" and "Sunday".

 

Ford`s Pay Schedule is, 7 days in one pay period. Starting ( so as not to confuse) Monday and ending on Sunday.

A Crew has "3" RDO`s they are Friday, Saturday and Sunday in one pay schedule. During those magical RDO`s someone is in the plant working the same operations that the A crew does when they are in the plant.... C Crew!!! get it? With the only, (some more contractional language here) opportunity for mandatory overtime being "Sunday". So if the A Crew has a crew doing their operations on two of the magical RDO`s do you really think double time will just kick in automaticly?? The same mystical AWS language works in the same way for the B Crew.

 

People, the AWS is nothing more than the reduction of labor costs. The AWS has made every day of the week equal. NO... permium to any one of them. Unless you can work some magic of your own and work "7"... "Seven" ... days in one pay period, you will never see the now... mystical Double Time.

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

Edited May 12, 2012 by Decker

[beatlenut]

AWS is the first step toward the elimination or reduction in overtime. Once the right number of 2 teir workers are in place there will no longer be 6 figure factory workers. Yes that's what we are, factory workers who are earning between $70,000 to $150,000 a year. Next contract the 20% rule for total 2nd teir will be removed or upped to 30% or 50%. This is a slow but sure process to ensure NO MORE overtime. So we all need to get ready for it. A process has been started, one contract at a time. Little by little, contract by contract. Down, Down. Down. A race to the bottom.

Does anyone see any thing on the global economic scene that would lead you to beleive the UAW will be in a position of strength in the next 20 years? This is longterm strategic planning by the big three and the UAW is powerless to do anything to stop it. When they said Delphi was the beginning of the end.........They were right.

[LadyJaguar]

Decker 1 of the Nuts

[Armstrong]

The membership both active and retiree, has been on the receiving end of a large part of the burden when it comes to the helping, keeping the competitivenes and the restructuring of Ford Motor Company.

 

We`ve been told time and time again how we the active and retired members need to consider the down side of the possibility of Ford going Bankrupt.

 

I`m sure all were told by IUAW more than a few times how we should, need and have too... secure our futures by doing the right thing..... Then I`m sure most remember how things progressed when some locals voted in a manner that was not pleasing to the IUAW... Remember the youtube postes, the confrontational meetings at the local halls and all the you better or else messages and points of veiw our IUAW put out there?

 

I beleive the membership got the message and now we see the fruits of the negotiations.

 

Yes, we see better earnings (overtime at most plants) and yes we see more people getting employment. But at what cost? People working in forced overtime situations. People working for half what the majority of others are being paid. A system being put into place to reduce or eliminate premium overtime pay. And a "Crew" that will see a four day work schedule that will inclued working holidays as a mandatory scheduled day.

 

I bring this up because I have a question for the membership.... "Do you think the business partners (IUAW andFord) are done restructuring Ford Motor Company???

 

I know most will say "No". But stop and think for just a few minutes. What other things can be restructured? More tier 2 people coming in? Even more right of choice being slipped away? Less benefits for our retired sisters and brothers? Well maybe??

 

There is one avenue that the restructuring hasn`t started down, yet. For all the business partners.

 

Basicly restructuring in any business big, small and MEGA like Ford, the company will come around to take a close look at all expenditures. Ford has done just that with their creditors. Ford reduced (negotiated) the amount it owed on more than a few occasions. Ford went to the local, city and state goverments and received reduced, abated and in some cases no tax liabilities for long periods of time. And of course we all know the restructuring of the companies labor cost in the present contract. There are more like these under the magnifying class with hopes they will add to the bottom line in a positive way.

 

But, there is one avenue of restructuring that isn`t talked about much... this avenue is one that Ford has a real nack for. I guess we at Ford don`t hear much about this restructuring because the venders are always outside entities. You know, business partners. They come and go without concern for the time clock. They get to use the phones and set up in office space. Possibly get a free meal now and then. But, when the business genius of Ford Motor company comes into play, this avenue can be a dark and scary road to travel. Just ask any vender Ford still has as a business partner.....

 

Now there is one vendor that hasn`t seen much resturcturing, so far. What if Ford starts looking at this vendor and starts restucturing its place as a business partner? Ford might look at how much is paid to represent the vendors supplied labor? Maybe Ford will work out some reduction but allow for the business partner, vendor to see an increase in their income by reallocation of their staff?

 

Just a thought, reduce the cost of each plants operating cost. Then throw some of the reduced cost at the vendor to offset the costs the vendor has in its everyday operations... WIN!!! WIN!!! Right?

 

Look at it like this. Every plant pays for lets say 4 heads (yeah, I know not a nice way to put it, but its business) to represent the labor that the vendor sells to Ford. These 4 heads do the authority figure type of operation. Make decisions on who gets what when it comes to days off, getting excused and how the overtime is handed out. And of course these heads sit at a table and make the deals that show up in a contract. Not at all plant do these heads sit at that table... (Local Contract, got one?) OK, think busines partners....

 

Ford puts on the table, to the vendor, (IUAW) a plan to put the same amount the head of the heads gets for a full year of earnings in the vendors account and in return reduces all 4 heads worth of yearly income that Ford would show as a restructuring benefits....? The vendor thinks, one years earnings multiplied by all the heads of the heads at all the plants.... Hmmm what do you think the vendor is going to do???

 

Well, hows this for some restructuring on the vendors part? The announcement is made.... drum role please.... Due to a restructuring the IUAW will be shifting some of its leaderships responceabilities as listed:

 

1) All Barganing units will fullfil their terms in office then return to their picked out operations.

2) Committee persons will continue to be the memberships first line of repersentation. (do everything, dam it)

3) Regional Servicing Rep`s will assume the part time role as head of the heads.

 

WIN....WIN..... 160K a year from each plant that one business partner is now in control of and lets just say half a MILLION baby!!! at each plant in operating cost RESTRUCTURING SAVINGS!!!!!!!!!

 

NAAAA.... never happen ........ (Business is Business)

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

 

Toke, toke, pass

 

Hey dumb ass, there are many plants out there that would love to have the problem of "running 3 crew"

 

The shame of your situation is you are ungrateful, heaven forbid you lose product in the future because of your hatred of 3 crew, $29.00 per hour jobs, great health care and job security for years to come.....

 

 

 

You are an ass

[LadyJaguar]

 

 

Toke, toke, pass

 

Hey dumb ass, there are many plants out there that would love to have the problem of "running 3 crew"

 

The shame of your situation is you are ungrateful, heaven forbid you lose product in the future because of your hatred of 3 crew, $29.00 per hour jobs, great health care and job security for years to come.....

 

 

 

You are an ass

 

Well said, I can't stand people who bitch about job security !

I bet Decker has enough time to retire but hangs around and acts like they doing him wrong.

 

Decker 1 of the Nuts

[Decker]

Toke, toke, pass

 

Hey dumb ass, there are many plants out there that would love to have the problem of "running 3 crew"

 

The shame of your situation is you are ungrateful, heaven forbid you lose product in the future because of your hatred of 3 crew, $29.00 per hour jobs, great health care and job security for years to come.....

 

 

 

You are an ass

 

Armstrong... Armstrong... get your med`s.... I bet your face is all red and you may be starting to get that rash back.

 

That paranoia is really showing its ugly head again. Brother you`ve got to try and put all those fears behind you. You had the chance hell, I bet they would help you pack and fix you a little cute lunch box for the ride to CAP. Really it was your choice to stay on the south side of Detroit.

 

You remember all the judgemental rants you go on... The name calling.... you can work through this the latest fear attack. Mr. ARMSTRONG!!! CAP is waiting for you!!!! COME ON DOWN!!!

 

Nope, instead you will type out all the "you are an ASS" tuff guy stuff... all the while wetting your pants every time you think about your plant being sold or going to one shift or .... I won`t say it... I know, you are already all worked up.

 

Hang in there young brother you still have a release of all that fear and paranioa .... come on and join us here in beautiful Chicago. Hell I`ll take you to a CUBS Game and I`ll buy you 2 beers in left field.... Fun fun fun

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

Edited May 13, 2012 by Decker

[Decker]

Well said, I can't stand people who bitch about job security !

I bet Decker has enough time to retire but hangs around and acts like they doing him wrong.

 

Decker 1 of the Nuts

 

"Decker 1 of the Nuts" 1 of the nuts? really?

 

Lady Jaguar, are you referring to the 1788 members that didn`t think the cream on top of the last contract was anything remotely close to a dairy product? If you are then... Lady its save to bet your Jag... "I`m one of those Nuts"!!!!

 

You should be able to feel the solidarity once in your life, that those 1788 felt. Members reasuring each other during all the pissed off IUAW speechs. Being sure of the one thing, the democratic process allows for the people to disagree with the direction there leaders are telling the masses that they should go in. The 1788 are not the types that think they know whats best for all and have stated at meetings they can never know what really goes on at the negotiation table, so we never thought anything of our actions other than acting like Americans that were acting within their constitutional rights. The right to disagree with the leadership of any organization is what the 1788 envoked.

 

So yes, LadyJaguar "Decker is very proud to be 1 of the 1788 UAW Members"...... "Nuts?" I guess if you say so, freedom of speach right?

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

 

LadyJaguar??? Bob.... is that you?

Edited May 13, 2012 by Decker

[Long forker DTP FINAL]

"Decker 1 of the Nuts" 1 of the nuts? really?

 

Lady Jaguar, are you referring to the 1788 members that didn`t think the cream on top of the last contract was anything remotely close to a dairy product? If you are then... Lady its save to bet your Jag... "I`m one of those Nuts"!!!!

 

You should be able to feel the solidarity once in your life, that those 1788 felt. Members reasuring each other during all the pissed off IUAW speechs. Being sure of the one thing, the democratic process allows for the people to disagree with the direction there leaders are telling the masses that they should go in. The 1788 are not the types that think they know whats best for all or have stated at meetings they can never know what goes on at the negotiation table, so we never thought anything of our actions other than acting like Americans that were acting within the constitutional rights. The right to disagree with the leadership of any organization is what the 1788 envoked.

 

So yes, LadyJaguar "Decker is very proud to be 1 of the 1788 UAW Members"...... "Nuts?" I guess if you say so, freedom of speach right?

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

 

LadyJaguar??? Bob.... is that you?

Well said, I think that this person L J is also C C they post the same way all over the place can't make head's or tail's or where they are coming from.

[qwertyuiop]

Work "7"... "Seven"... days in one "7' day pay period and magic!!!! You will receive Double Time for the "7th"... "seventh" day worked.

 

The plain language on the Mystical "AWS" is those three magical letters "RDO" are put right in there to reduce labor costs and reduce the chances labor well have the opportunity to reach that... took for granted, automatic and so rewarding "Premium Days of the week" "Saturday" and "Sunday".

 

Ford`s Pay Schedule is, 7 days in one pay period. Starting ( so as not to confuse) Monday and ending on Sunday.

A Crew has "3" RDO`s they are Friday, Saturday and Sunday in one pay schedule. During those magical RDO`s someone is in the plant working the same operations that the A crew does when they are in the plant.... C Crew!!! get it? With the only, (some more contractional language here) opportunity for mandatory overtime being "Sunday". So if the A Crew has a crew doing their operations on two of the magical RDO`s do you really think double time will just kick in automaticly?? The same mystical AWS language works in the same way for the B Crew.

 

You are right Decker, contractual language is key.

 

In reference to 3rd Day RDO time, double time is paid REGARDLESS of hours worked on RDO's 1 & 2. It was written into the contract this way to keep some semblance of 7th-day work as a bonus. The problem for A-Crew with that is timing. The only time that (realistically) this can happen is if C-Crew moves the Sunday start to day shift should Monday be a holiday, or a day of high known absenteeism (such as Super Bowl Monday). Then, members of A-Crew can come in on these days and get their double time (if people go to church, have a personal, etc.) However, a Super Sunday for A-Crew is automatic double time for all hours worked (assuming 40 hours during the week - otherwise it is straight time up to the 40-hour point).

 

Truthfully, B-Crew gets the shaft in the AWS OT scheduling. The ONLY way for B-Crew to get double time is to come in during C-Crew on Sunday. This was, and still is, exceptionally rare, even at a plant like DTP. In 3 years of being there and 19 months of being on B-Crew, I only got called in on a Sunday twice.

 

AWS schedules have been at Ford for quite a while - they were only nationally introduced this last contract. DTP started 3-crews in 2008, then went back to 2 later that year, only to re-start it in 2009. Other plants had been trying it on a trial basis up to the contract, and are finally implementing it full-time thanks to Appendix W.

Edited May 13, 2012 by qwertyuiop

[Decker]

You are right Decker, contractual language is key.

 

In reference to 3rd Day RDO time, double time is paid REGARDLESS of hours worked on RDO's 1 & 2. It was written into the contract this way to keep some semblance of 7th-day work as a bonus. The problem for A-Crew with that is timing. The only time that (realistically) this can happen is if C-Crew moves the Sunday start to day shift should Monday be a holiday, or a day of high known absenteeism (such as Super Bowl Monday). Then, members of A-Crew can come in on these days and get their double time (if people go to church, have a personal, etc.) However, a Super Sunday for A-Crew is automatic double time for all hours worked (assuming 40 hours during the week - otherwise it is straight time up to the 40-hour point).

 

Truthfully, B-Crew gets the shaft in the AWS OT scheduling. The ONLY way for B-Crew to get double time is to come in during C-Crew on Sunday. This was, and still is, exceptionally rare, even at a plant like DTP. In 3 years of being there and 19 months of being on B-Crew, I only got called in on a Sunday twice.

 

AWS schedules have been at Ford for quite a while - they were only nationally introduced this last contract. DTP started 3-crews in 2008, then went back to 2 later that year, only to re-start it in 2009. Other plants had been trying it on a trial basis up to the contract, and are finally implementing it full-time thanks to Appendix W.

 

Thanks qwertyuiop,

 

The one issue that is very much at the root of most if not the all confusion (sometimes heated confusion) here at CAP is the language its self. Being that it is of the legal gherkin...type.... jumpimg to one place from another and then referencing some other part before one can get to some type of a conclusion, But, then roll in the "play" on words that Ford (IUAW also) is so good at. Use the word "shift" when referring the term "crew" or use the "traditional" terms (accidentally of course) when referring to the AWS 3 Crew procedures and agenda.... This alone had some, thinking for a while, "3 shifts of production a day" .....nope. I think this was one of the play on words the IUAW was using?? naaa

 

Also here at CAP ..... our leadership tends to be in a numbers, numbers, numbers (which is ok) mind set so, at times the whole place is up for grabs. We tend to see the "book", "white pages" or the mystical "volume one" thrown right out the window. Then at this point ( very offend here lately) the method in use is the "guess as you go" method...?

 

So yes, CAP is waiting to get on a ride it has never been on before..... Health and Safety is making sure everyone is properly buckled in. ERGO is making sure the padding is in the proper placement. The Rep`s are doing their best to make sure there is no cutting in line..... and the membership (old and new) can`t wait for the carney`s to crank this bad boy up... MONDAY....MONDAY...MONDAY!!!!

 

Put your hands UP!!! the first dip on this ride may be WICKED!!!

 

Got one question for you qwertyuiop, (very easy to type "first row" cool idea) when DTP went back to the traditional mind set how (this will be a touchy subject here at CAP) did the reduction in force play out? Traditional or Guess as you go???

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

Edited May 13, 2012 by Decker

[damagedone37]

Reduction placed everyone around the complex at the Rouge then low seniority was off till CCrew returned or opens became available.

Like I said Decker get used to it. It's not going away. It is what it is.

Next contract OT at 1.25 after 8 on AWS is something the IUAW should look into neogiating.

I personally would like to see a 5 or a 530a start on dayshift. It would give me extra time to spend w my family when I get home.

I'm almost sure a buy down will be an item on the table for the company for tier one 3/4$ and tier2 up 3/4$. Wage equalization is coming next contract. Chryslers execs want it. With pattern bargaining i wouldn't be surprised.

Tier 1 would probably get 1$ taken every year with a year pay bonus etc something along those lines...

2 tier is bad for ALL. Horrible system that will have member ship split in three years

Next contract these items need to be addressed

[LadyJaguar]

Well said, I think that this person L J is also C C they post the same way all over the place can't make head's or tail's or where they are coming from.

 

You people on here always think somebody on here is somebody else they know

Get a life.

Anyway who is C C , I have not seen any post on here by a C C .

I worked at DTP but now I am at KTP.

 

[Long forker DTP FINAL]

You people on here always think somebody on here is somebody else they know

Get a life.

Anyway who is C C , I have not seen any post on here by a C C .

I worked at DTP but now I am at KTP.

you show up when Candy Cane stop posting here.

[Decker]

In reference to 3rd Day RDO time, double time is paid REGARDLESS of hours worked on RDO's 1 & 2. It was written into the contract this way to keep some semblance of 7th-day work as a bonus.

 

I agree with you qwertyuiop completely, but the "regardless of hours worked on RDO`s 1& 2" part is what some members (and rep`s) here at CAP are having issue with. The key part of your statement is "worked".

 

Now I have been wrong, (far from a virgin there) and being well on my way to "old" I can say with all honesty "I have missed a certain point in acticles I have read". So I say with all honesty" this is the way I`ve read the requirements in the white pages, referring to the AWS 3 Crew. RDO #1, has to be "worked" then RDO #2, has to be "worked" and then and only then RDO #3 (Sunday) will be paid at "double time" for the hours "worked".

 

There are memebers that are still thinking (Tradititional Language) if "Sunday" is required it automatically is paid at "double time"......

 

I also agree with you totally on the chances for A or B crew fulfilling these requirements for the double time premium. Due completey to the C crew schedule. RDO #3 is not the only issue here, try getting double time if RDO #1 or RDO #2 is a Regular Day Off (no work)... and RDO #3 is mandatory..... Double time....Not a chance.

 

damagedone37, young brother, you have brought up some issues that have been discussed, at lenght in our discussion group (Nuts getting together, LadyJaguar) here at CAP and we too think the next step will be focused on our hourly rates of pay. How true, the splitting of the membership along the lines of hourly wages is terrible. But, the horrible part of it all is we are highest authority in the organization that has negotiated the path we are going down. Solidarity Forever.......

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

[LadyJaguar]

you show up when Candy Cane stop posting here.

 

It's your choice to call me whomever you think I am.

I will continue to be.

 

Line worker

1 of 40,000

[qwertyuiop]

In reference to 3rd Day RDO time, double time is paid REGARDLESS of hours worked on RDO's 1 & 2. It was written into the contract this way to keep some semblance of 7th-day work as a bonus.

 

I agree with you qwertyuiop completely, but the "regardless of hours worked on RDO`s 1& 2" part is what some members (and rep`s) here at CAP are having issue with. The key part of your statement is "worked".

 

Now I have been wrong, (far from a virgin there) and being well on my way to "old" I can say with all honesty "I have missed a certain point in acticles I have read". So I say with all honesty" this is the way I`ve read the requirements in the white pages, referring to the AWS 3 Crew. RDO #1, has to be "worked" then RDO #2, has to be "worked" and then and only then RDO #3 (Sunday) will be paid at "double time" for the hours "worked".

 

There are memebers that are still thinking (Tradititional Language) if "Sunday" is required it automatically is paid at "double time"......

 

I also agree with you totally on the chances for A or B crew fulfilling these requirements for the double time premium. Due completey to the C crew schedule. RDO #3 is not the only issue here, try getting double time if RDO #1 or RDO #2 is a Regular Day Off (no work)... and RDO #3 is mandatory..... Double time....Not a chance.

 

 

Page 186A of the white pages of the new agreement, titled "3 Crew Agreement" (otherwise known as page 196 of the PDF document) states the following:

 

b. Overtime Premiums

 

The base schedule for this pattern is 40 hours worked and/or compensated; RDO premiums will not apply until this threshold is reached. Hours worked and/or compensated in excess of 40 per week will be paid as follows:

 

- Time and one-half for all hours on the First and Second Regular Day Off (RDO)

- Double time for all hours on the third RDO

- RDO premiums are determined by the RDO day

- Time and one-half is paid for hours worked in excess of ten straight time hours unless the employee qualifies for double time.

 

(notes: emphasis added)

 

It is not necessary to work 7 days before getting double time premiums. It is only necessary to work on your third RDO. Your first and second RDO's are paid at time and a half. The reason I added emphasis on the two statements above is because the way the language is written, it effectively excludes the need to work on the first and second days before getting double time on the "7th" day. It is automatically paid to you this way (speaking from first-hand experience when I was at DTP).

 

Your brothers and sisters at CAP should not need to worry whether their OT is going to get paid right. It is already programmed into TWOS to give us the correct pay (that is, as long as your supervisor pays you correctly).

 

RDO #3 is not the only issue here, try getting double time if RDO #1 or RDO #2 is a Regular Day Off (no work)... and RDO #3 is mandatory..... Double time....Not a chance.

 

You WILL get double time for working on your third RDO EVEN IF you have not worked on your 1st/2nd. As above, RDO premiums are determined by the RDO day. NO MATTER how many hours you (didn't) work on RDO days 1 & 2, you WILL get double time for RDO 3 (Sundays for A & B crews, Thursday for C-Crew). I know this for a fact.

Edited May 14, 2012 by qwertyuiop

[Decker]

Page 186A of the white pages of the new agreement, titled "3 Crew Agreement" (otherwise known as page 196 of the PDF document) states the following:

 

 

 

It is not necessary to work 7 days before getting double time premiums. It is only necessary to work on your third RDO. Your first and second RDO's are paid at time and a half. The reason I added emphasis on the two statements above is because the way the language is written, it effectively excludes the need to work on the first and second days before getting double time on the "7th" day. It is automatically paid to you this way (speaking from first-hand experience when I was at DTP).

 

Your brothers and sisters at CAP should not need to worry whether their OT is going to get paid right. It is already programmed into TWOS to give us the correct pay (that is, as long as your supervisor pays you correctly).

 

 

 

You WILL get double time for working on your third RDO EVEN IF you have not worked on your 1st/2nd. As above, RDO premiums are determined by the RDO day. NO MATTER how many hours you (didn't) work on RDO days 1 & 2, you WILL get double time for RDO 3 (Sundays for A & B crews, Thursday for C-Crew). I know this for a fact.

 

Thank you qwertyuiop,

 

This will help very much. I will be posting this information at the plant today.

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

Edited May 14, 2012 by Decker

[Decker]

qwertyuiop,

 

It was mentioned in prior posts the "fairness" and the "shaft" points of the AWS scheduling. This I guess was my hopes, "fairness". Now those references are becoming clear. After you pointing out the language I missed or subconsciouy didn`t want to read.

 

After some discussion I and many on the B crew.... Are clearly seeing the potential shaft...

 

Once again thanks for your input it is good to be able to discuss these type of topic`s without having ego`s play the major role.

 

Decker

1 of the 1788

Edited May 14, 2012 by Decker

[qwertyuiop]

You're quite welcome.

 

I check my ego at the front page and allow only the rational thinker to come onto this board. I only post facts that I am sure of or that can easily be verified. Logical discussions require logical thinkers, and that is what I am. If in a subsequent post I find out I am wrong, or mis-stating the truth, I will correct myself. This is a reason why nearly every one of my posts are edited - I either find glaring inaccuracies in what I wrote, or i make things much clearer to understand for everyone.

 

Either way, you will find that my posts are informing and well thought out, mainly because my goal is to provide accurate information to those seeking it.

[LadyJaguar]

Your Nuts !!

 

1 of the 40,000 workers

[Decker]

qwertyuiop,

 

As you can see, I too tend to use the edit botton very often. Today alone, I have used the botton numerous times. When interacting with all parts of our membership I find that on occasions I will have to catch myself while working with one group or the other. There are differences in language for the different groups. I`m totally sure you are completely aware of this type of stituation.

 

Talk at lenght with a Trades sister or brother and walk away just to be answering questions givien by our entry level brothers and sisters and I find that I have wished for that edit button. Then our seniority members well, lets just say I have so many of the same questions they do so yes, I try to pass on as much information as possible. But, in real life the edit button becomes more walking and more discussing and yes at times having to state, "I" was wrong or at best "I" mis - stated the language.

 

I rely very much on not only reading but those Rep`s that I can have different opinions with, then reach a point of understanding that benefits all. (Trades reps come to mind, along with others) And now "you".

 

I have been blessed with what and who I have become. Doing what I do is at times ruff on the nerves and loads of stress... but, being a resource for those that ask, is very rewarding. (most times)

 

Hey LadyJaguar, you are correct... I`m nuts

 

Decker

1 of the 1788