campden Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Took a brand-new 2007 Limited (Cdn Trim) out for a scrape today: Here's my initial comments: This is a long post, sorry, I just kept typing. Drives great---quiet--really quiet, but some wind noise from around the A-pillar/mirrors at highway speeds. Steering appears great--good feel in the hands-balance between sporty without being too tight--can still "spin the wheel" with my open palm to take a low speed corner. I typically prefer beige interiors, but the 2006 camel is too yellowy and makes me want to barf. It's too much! I understand the 2007 will have what I believe is the "stone" colour interior from the XLT (Cdn trim version) as standard, but will still have some of the camel trim (A-pillar, etc.)--perhaps they are just using up stock? So the 2007I drove was charcoal and it was quite nice. To get the charcoal in Canada, you need to order the Limited. We'll need to look seriously at this as we have 2 kids and even if the beige is to our liking, it looks like a nightmare to keep looking decent. Also, the charcoal can't be ordered with the colour we like-Dark Cherry Red It has power running boards, a bit over the top, but neat. I can deal with fixed ones for myself. Lots of pickup, find the large round guages with the small fuel gauge makes it hard to see the fuel level quickly. Liked the top dash bin, but too bad it didn't have one of those high friction little mats to keep stuff from sliding about and also to make it easy to shake out dust and bits of whatever that will collect there. Rear windows retract fully into the door, no little stub sticking up. Finally, I might own a car with 2xtrip odometers--one to track mileage between fill-ups and one for keeping track of business trips for expense account work! "Easyout"--the driver's seat slides back when you shut it down (or maybe take the key out.) MP3 player jack will be handy. Noticed less windnoise with the sunroof open compared to a 2006--I actually found the 2006 was quieter if you held the little front wing/spoiler down!!, but this seemed better. Didn't likes/annoyances: Some are perhaps petty, but many just show someone wasn't really thinking about the needs of the average driver with a family. 4 line display can't be read clearly with polarized sunglasses! How stupid is that?? I can see it if I tily my head a bit to either side, but if the polarized filter for the display was turned 90 degrees, then I would be okay--as it sits now, about 50% of the light is blocked by the combination of my polarizing glasses and the filer on the display. I liked the new arm rests with the cup, but one would have assumed it would be on all 4 doors--NOT! So I've got too small kids that will have to stuggle with the lower handle, which due to it's placement so close to the hinges it requires more effort to overcome this shortened lever effect (Sr. high school physics). Also, coming from a WIndstar, there are not used to opening their own doors--one gust of wind and I can see paying to fix someones door ding if the kid's doors get away from them and they have nothing to grab to catch it--might be an outside chance that the armrest itself from the back can be replaced with a couple of front ones ordered from Ford and installed later--they look like they are separate and are very similar from front to back. Anyone care to investiage/comment? Large blind spot, but I think correct side mirror adjustment, and getting used to it will overcome it. Having to drop the middle seat headrest and then fold the seat down seems like extra effort. Like the option of having the rear seat, but unfortunately (in Canada only?) you need to get AUx air and power fold (EB & LTD). Suddenly the cheap convenience of rear seats for extra soccer buddies is a $2000 exercise for the handful of times it will get used. No 4x2 in Canada. No satellite radio offering in Canada. Miss two neat features from my 1998 Windstar that also were dropped from the 2000 Windstar we now own-- button in the back to lock/unlock doors and the feature where the rear wiper would give a single wipe if you had the fronts on and were backing up. Heated seats have one temperature--a high/low would have been nice. Power lift on the rear decklid would have been nice. (instead of power running boards) 2007 EBs now have 18" rims--nice but tires are a chunk more expensive compared to 17" ones (and x 4 corners to boot!)--perhaps they'll drop in time. No rear seat belt height adjustment for adjusting them for kids--instead a hokey loop that lowers the effecitve starting point of the belt. Side Canopy curtain doesn't protect rearmost passengers--Afterall the rear is where the kids will want to be during long trips. No grab handle for the middle or rear seat occupants to assist with exiting the vehicle. Rear of front centre console has round slots for middle seat passenger drinks but won't hold square tetra pack juice boxes for kids. Like the media controls on the steering wheel, but they put a dummy button on the top-right side!! I mean, why not put a radio on/off or even a mute button there? Middle seats fold flat--well "almost". Controls for rear air are up in the headliner console--hard to see. Too bad couldn't be part of the lower centre console stack. Metric display of temperature uses commas "," between digits rather than decimal point "." ie: 21,5 instead of 21.5--I think the Europeans do that, but we Canuks are more American then we might care to admit. Mechanism for the sunroof is exposed inside the vehicle when the interior slider panel is open--check out the Grand Cherokee--has a nice pleated accordian thing to hide the spingenwerks. Also the Jeep sunroof is extra large--really nice. They make a big deal about the chrome grill, mirror "skullcaps" and upper roof rails--nice but look at my Windstar SEL--All the chrome eggcrate grill is chipped and peeling to hell and we're not big highway drivers. COncerned about costs (even with insurance) to replace the optional heated window. Also unsure if the polarized glasses will be an issue. LIke the side mirror puddle lights, but too bad they didn't make signal mirrors. Fixed antenna--I prefer power--occasionally a problem, but kids can't bend what they can grab! Keyfobs: didn't see them but assume they are the same as always with the little chinsy plastic ears that break off leaving you to replace the whole unit. Centre shifter is nice, but in a smaller garage we have to "slide across" depending on which side it is parked on-- The sales process: Had the same speil from the salesguy as I did from the other dealer where I drove a 2006....look under the hood, pint out the service points, etc. etc. So at least the second guy attended that training class--unfortunately he was wrong (I beleive) on a couple of other points: towing: 9000 lbs (I think it is about 7000) rear seat: told me and quoted me just the cost of the seat--claimed you didn't have to get the rear air--yet I could see it on the build sheet he was reading from Interiors: claimed the charcoal was available on the EB plus lots of little things he missed or spewed incorrect stats on during our drive. Lastly, does up a quote and includes $120 for "Protector Plus"--serial numbers on the windows, etc. I claimed I don't want it, he says they all come with it--sure because the dealership installs it! Remember permashine in the scene from Fargo??!?! Then $149 for "administration" I asked "does that mean license plates"--he talked around it, never saying yes/never saying no, just that their rates were lowest around--Like I'm gonna pay them to do their own internal paperwork???? Anyway, I'm done, I'll get off my soapbox--just wanted to share my opinions for those that care and for those that endured to the end. Don't get me wrong, I was impressed, but needed to point these things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chkchka Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Took a brand-new 2007 Limited (Cdn Trim) out for a scrape today: Here's my initial comments: This is a long post, sorry, I just kept typing. Drives great---quiet--really quiet, but some wind noise from around the A-pillar/mirrors at highway speeds. Steering appears great--good feel in the hands-balance between sporty without being too tight--can still "spin the wheel" with my open palm to take a low speed corner. I typically prefer beige interiors, but the 2006 camel is too yellowy and makes me want to barf. It's too much! I understand the 2007 will have what I believe is the "stone" colour interior from the XLT (Cdn trim version) as standard, but will still have some of the camel trim (A-pillar, etc.)--perhaps they are just using up stock? So the 2007I drove was charcoal and it was quite nice. To get the charcoal in Canada, you need to order the Limited. We'll need to look seriously at this as we have 2 kids and even if the beige is to our liking, it looks like a nightmare to keep looking decent. Also, the charcoal can't be ordered with the colour we like-Dark Cherry Red It has power running boards, a bit over the top, but neat. I can deal with fixed ones for myself. Lots of pickup, find the large round guages with the small fuel gauge makes it hard to see the fuel level quickly. Liked the top dash bin, but too bad it didn't have one of those high friction little mats to keep stuff from sliding about and also to make it easy to shake out dust and bits of whatever that will collect there. Rear windows retract fully into the door, no little stub sticking up. Finally, I might own a car with 2xtrip odometers--one to track mileage between fill-ups and one for keeping track of business trips for expense account work! "Easyout"--the driver's seat slides back when you shut it down (or maybe take the key out.) MP3 player jack will be handy. Noticed less windnoise with the sunroof open compared to a 2006--I actually found the 2006 was quieter if you held the little front wing/spoiler down!!, but this seemed better. Didn't likes/annoyances: Some are perhaps petty, but many just show someone wasn't really thinking about the needs of the average driver with a family. 4 line display can't be read clearly with polarized sunglasses! How stupid is that?? I can see it if I tily my head a bit to either side, but if the polarized filter for the display was turned 90 degrees, then I would be okay--as it sits now, about 50% of the light is blocked by the combination of my polarizing glasses and the filer on the display. I liked the new arm rests with the cup, but one would have assumed it would be on all 4 doors--NOT! So I've got too small kids that will have to stuggle with the lower handle, which due to it's placement so close to the hinges it requires more effort to overcome this shortened lever effect (Sr. high school physics). Also, coming from a WIndstar, there are not used to opening their own doors--one gust of wind and I can see paying to fix someones door ding if the kid's doors get away from them and they have nothing to grab to catch it--might be an outside chance that the armrest itself from the back can be replaced with a couple of front ones ordered from Ford and installed later--they look like they are separate and are very similar from front to back. Anyone care to investiage/comment? Large blind spot, but I think correct side mirror adjustment, and getting used to it will overcome it. Having to drop the middle seat headrest and then fold the seat down seems like extra effort. Like the option of having the rear seat, but unfortunately (in Canada only?) you need to get AUx air and power fold (EB & LTD). Suddenly the cheap convenience of rear seats for extra soccer buddies is a $2000 exercise for the handful of times it will get used. No 4x2 in Canada. No satellite radio offering in Canada. Miss two neat features from my 1998 Windstar that also were dropped from the 2000 Windstar we now own-- button in the back to lock/unlock doors and the feature where the rear wiper would give a single wipe if you had the fronts on and were backing up. Heated seats have one temperature--a high/low would have been nice. Power lift on the rear decklid would have been nice. (instead of power running boards) 2007 EBs now have 18" rims--nice but tires are a chunk more expensive compared to 17" ones (and x 4 corners to boot!)--perhaps they'll drop in time. No rear seat belt height adjustment for adjusting them for kids--instead a hokey loop that lowers the effecitve starting point of the belt. Side Canopy curtain doesn't protect rearmost passengers--Afterall the rear is where the kids will want to be during long trips. No grab handle for the middle or rear seat occupants to assist with exiting the vehicle. Rear of front centre console has round slots for middle seat passenger drinks but won't hold square tetra pack juice boxes for kids. Like the media controls on the steering wheel, but they put a dummy button on the top-right side!! I mean, why not put a radio on/off or even a mute button there? Middle seats fold flat--well "almost". Controls for rear air are up in the headliner console--hard to see. Too bad couldn't be part of the lower centre console stack. Metric display of temperature uses commas "," between digits rather than decimal point "." ie: 21,5 instead of 21.5--I think the Europeans do that, but we Canuks are more American then we might care to admit. Mechanism for the sunroof is exposed inside the vehicle when the interior slider panel is open--check out the Grand Cherokee--has a nice pleated accordian thing to hide the spingenwerks. Also the Jeep sunroof is extra large--really nice. They make a big deal about the chrome grill, mirror "skullcaps" and upper roof rails--nice but look at my Windstar SEL--All the chrome eggcrate grill is chipped and peeling to hell and we're not big highway drivers. COncerned about costs (even with insurance) to replace the optional heated window. Also unsure if the polarized glasses will be an issue. LIke the side mirror puddle lights, but too bad they didn't make signal mirrors. Fixed antenna--I prefer power--occasionally a problem, but kids can't bend what they can grab! Keyfobs: didn't see them but assume they are the same as always with the little chinsy plastic ears that break off leaving you to replace the whole unit. Centre shifter is nice, but in a smaller garage we have to "slide across" depending on which side it is parked on-- The sales process: Had the same speil from the salesguy as I did from the other dealer where I drove a 2006....look under the hood, pint out the service points, etc. etc. So at least the second guy attended that training class--unfortunately he was wrong (I beleive) on a couple of other points: towing: 9000 lbs (I think it is about 7000) rear seat: told me and quoted me just the cost of the seat--claimed you didn't have to get the rear air--yet I could see it on the build sheet he was reading from Interiors: claimed the charcoal was available on the EB plus lots of little things he missed or spewed incorrect stats on during our drive. Lastly, does up a quote and includes $120 for "Protector Plus"--serial numbers on the windows, etc. I claimed I don't want it, he says they all come with it--sure because the dealership installs it! Remember permashine in the scene from Fargo??!?! Then $149 for "administration" I asked "does that mean license plates"--he talked around it, never saying yes/never saying no, just that their rates were lowest around--Like I'm gonna pay them to do their own internal paperwork???? Anyway, I'm done, I'll get off my soapbox--just wanted to share my opinions for those that care and for those that endured to the end. Don't get me wrong, I was impressed, but needed to point these things out. I hope someone pays attention. It's no wonder 79% of consumers won't even step foot in a Ford Dealership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack99 Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 I hope someone pays attention. It's no wonder 79% of consumers won't even step foot in a Ford Dealership. Sorry if this is too long but it does not bode well for Ford.... I just ordered a 2007 Explorer Limited and have to say the sales process almost prevented it from ever being completed. I was first contacted by the "Internet Sales Dept" since I had looked over their inventory via the Ford website. I then obtained an X-Plan pin thanks to the kind folks on this website and called her to say I wanted to do an X Plan purchase. We made an appt. and she sent me to a sales rep on the floor to complete the process. After driving a 2006 and being asked at least 15 times if I could "take one home today" I finally convinced this gentleman that I had already looked at their inventory which had nothing like what I wanted and simply needed a trade-in value on my existing vehicle so we could see if the numbers worked for an X Plan order. He went back and forth with his manager and this went on for 2 hours with my 7 and 11 year old waiting very patiently. He then asked again several times whether I could buy and take home today a 2006! I asked about the trade value as it really was the only variable in the deal and he said to be patient and I'd be happy. I said I am ready to give him money to put down today as it was end of month (8/31). Finally he said to come back without the children as it would take a few hours to place an order. Still no price for my trade. As I was leaving the sales manager came out to thank me and I asked him for the trade value so I wasn't wasting everyone's time in case it was too low requiring me to shop it around. I told him I wanted to buy from his dealership (although I was starting to have second thoughts about then) and if his offer was reasonable I would look nowhere else. He gave me a figure that worked, we shook hands, and I left with an appointment several days later without children. Sales person tells me no less than 7 times to ONLY talk to him when I return no matter what anyone else tells me. I returned and said I am ready to buy but had a few questions since there was no 07 to look at and was leaning towards Carbon but needed to see what it might look like. He was totally lost by my questions and asked what I wanted on new car, after trying again to put me in 06! I asked what was available as far as options. Off he went again for a while. Floor manager started yelling at him since by now I was asking other salespeople questions due to my guy's lack of knowledge. My guy keeps returning after being yelled at telling me he will lose sale if I ask anyone else any questions. After 2 more hours he says he doesn't know how to factiry order and asks for help. By now I wasted 4 hours and manager tells him to have another guy place the order. My guy now disapears and never is seen from again! This new guy is MUCH more knowledgable, smart and actually hears what I say rather than trying to put me into a non-existant 06. He seems to have no idea that I am doing an X Plan (seems original guy never told anyone). We build car quickly, he offers some opinions on different options which is very helpful and we're all set until we come to the trade value. Now that they know it will be 2 months +/- before trade-in they are no longer sure of value! He says he is very sorry, whole process has been messed up by original guy and manager who gave appraisal is off that day! Can I come back for a third time! Crazy or not (I do really want car) I agree to come back next day where I learn original salesman is now fired, they screwed up appraisal but will give me that value anyway. All ends well with vehicle ordered at X Plan less orginal agreed upon trade-in value. It took three days and 5 hours and I walked in the first day ready to buy with checkbook and PIN in hand. I can only imagine how many people give up. Now I know this was one "bad apple" but come on folks! My previous two purchases were a Mercedes ML320 which I bought in 30 mins over the phone from an out of state dealer, it was flat bedded to my house at no cost, and I never stepped into dealership. My other car is a Volvo XC90 bought locally in under an hour. Something is wrong here. Great products but Ford needs quality people to represent them. Remember, you're only as strong as your weakest link. Time to get off my soapbox, but maybe someone from Ford actually reads these posts and can work to bring the dealerships up to reasonable standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscozz Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 WOW! That was almost my experience exactly!!!! I had two dealers agree to a deal via e-mail. I went to the dealer I had bought my last Explorer from. Checkbook in hand, options, option codes, etc. all ready to go. SHould have been a 30 minute process for all of us. 3 hours later, after trying to get me in an 06, after putting up with an incompetent sales person who I knew much more than... I had a signed piece of paper agreeing on my new car price. They would NOT give me a price on the trade on paper... since there would be 6-8 weeks, during which they said the vehicle and market values could change (onan 11 year old Explorer... how much more can it go down? Anyway... that was on a Saturday... they claimed they could only place the order on Mon and Fri... which I now know to be BS... 10 days went by before they even placed the order... with me calling every other day for a confirmation sheet to review to make sure they did not screw something up. After 10 days I got the order print out only... not the Ford order confirmation... so I have never been able to verify that Ford actually has the right details on the vehicle I want. Now after 23 days, I call and find my sales person is no longer with the dealer... and they have a VIN # but no build date... Anyway... it has been painful... and I fully expect that they will try to knock a few hundred off what they guessed my trade was worth because of extra mileage in 8 weeks... although I have the option to get my deposit back and walk if they do. It should just not be that complicated to hand over money! Don't even get me started on the lack of ergonomics, technology, etc. on Ford vehicles. Inflexibility in getting what you want even when you are willing to pay top dollar... and more. Hope all goes well for you from here on! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fllcobra Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 (edited) Took a brand-new 2007 Limited (Cdn Trim) out for a scrape today: Here's my initial comments: This is a long post, sorry, I just kept typing. Don't get me wrong, I was impressed, but needed to point these things out. My question to you is have you found a better SUV for the price of the vehicle you drove? Edited September 9, 2006 by fllcobra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chkchka Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 You really have to look hard to find a good dealership and even harder to find a good salesman in said dealership. A good dealership usually keeps their salesman and service managers years and years. A bad one constantly is having to replace them. I work for Ford and get an A plan deal and had a salesman keep trying to put me in a program contour (5000+miles on it with a broken antennae). I asked him why I would pay the same for a used contour when I can get a brand new one with no miles and he replied because the driven one had the bugs worked out of it. Now this is the same car I helped build right down the road and this salesman is telling me this BS. I've had a few other bad experiences with warranty work as well and if Ford wasn't paying my paycheck I would be part of that 79% who wants nothing to do with Ford ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeeman84 Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 I think that you can run into a bad dealership no matter what car maker you are dealing with. I was briefly looking at the Honda Ridgeline before I decided on a 06 Explorer. I went to a local Honda dealership and they treated me like crap. Last Spring the Ridgeline was very popular and most options are not factory but dealer installed at very high markups. Their attidude was take it or leave their deal. Very arrogant. I went back to the Ford dealer I have worked with for the past ten years. I have worked with the same salesperson for ten years and he made the experience very easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofer Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 I can tell you my experience with ordering was the complete opposite... Knowledgeable, fast, no real BS... BOWEN SCARFF FORD in Kent, WA... I do not work for them, but they have been good to me! Curtis is no longer there, but Brian is, Thanks guys, when you read stories like this your help was even more appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack99 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Glad I wasn't alone. Based on what I read here I emailed my second (good) salesperson yesterday asking for a fax of the DORA which should show me it was ordered. I'll give him until Tuesday to get it to me and then I will call or email again. I actually was surprised they gave me a firm trade value on a vehicle that will likely take 6-8 weeks to show up. I have never been able to get that before from any dealer but since that was the only variable I felt it was important. Good luck to all (including me!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 (edited) My question to you is have you found a better SUV for the price of the vehicle you drove? IT DOESN'T FREAKIN MATTER! This person, just like myself, are customers and they are trying to convey good feedback based on their experience with the Ford product. Instead of worrying about if they found a better SUV for the price, be more concerned about addressing the consumer's concerns that you hope will buy the "Ford" product instead of the many others that are available. The person that started this thread was trying to provide excellent feedback, and for you to respond with that comment is totaly rediculous. I just took delivery of a new special order 07 Sport Trac with Chrome Package and most other options and I would hope that Ford would at least be willing to accept my feedback to help improve thier product. By the Way, KUDOS to Sam Rimpel, the fleet manager at North Central Ford here in Richardson, TX for making my 07 Sport Trac order as painless as possible. It's people like Sam that take care of their customers that make a world of difference for the customer. Edited September 10, 2006 by Lil Red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fllcobra Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 IT DOESN'T FREAKIN MATTER! This person, just like myself, are customers and they are trying to convey good feedback based on their experience with the Ford product. Instead of worrying about if they found a better SUV for the price, be more concerned about addressing the consumer's concerns that you hope will buy the "Ford" product instead of the many others that are available. The person that started this thread was trying to provide excellent feedback, and for you to respond with that comment is totaly rediculous. I just took delivery of a new special order 07 Sport Trac with Chrome Package and most other options and I would hope that Ford would at least be willing to accept my feedback to help improve thier product. By the Way, KUDOS to Sam Rimpel, the fleet manager at North Central Ford here in Richardson, TX for making my 07 Sport Trac order as painless as possible. It's people like Sam that take care of their customers that make a world of difference for the customer. Dude, calm down. :shrug: I wasn't flinging mud at anyone. The reality is everything comes at a cost. While it is nice to have all of the little bits and pieces that were suggested, it all adds a cost that eats into margins and adds to prices that people are not willing to pay. And lets face it, some of the constructive critisms were downright hokey. Ford spent a lot in sealing up and reinforcing the frame and structure of this vehicle. It blows my mind that there is a complaint about "wind noise at the A-pillar." I own a 2006 Mountaineer Premier, so I know exactly what it sounds like at 85 MPH. I also test drove a 4-Runner, a Pathfinder and an FX. The Mountaineer is quieter than any SUV is it's class and Ford has the dB from the front and middle row seats to prove it. Now I know what you're saying. I too would have liked to have additional bling, such as a wood trim kit and more color contrast in the interior. If you guys want bling, then look at Lincoln or Mercury instead. That is why those brands exist. Ford badged vehicles are focused on the content that customers want the most and deliver it at the lowest price possible. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markfnc Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 (edited) what is the x plan? quick explanation please? I have seen it mentioned, but I don't know what it is. Edited September 11, 2006 by markfnc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldracer Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 We ordered our 2007 Sport Trac Limited at the end of July from Don Reid Ford in Maitland, Florida, (where we have bought about 20 cars since 1994), we bought from Jerry Watts, who is the Fleet guy I have been dealing with for 12 years. He is also a motorcycle buddy and personal friend as well. We will use our X-Plan PIN and will be gone in 45 minutes with our paperwork done and the truck spotless. He called me today and said it came in today, as promised, and we will probably pick it up Wed night. This dealership is excellent in the Service area as well and if you deal with the Fleet people, there is no hassles. The Retail side is not as much fun, and I never have dealt with them, Fleet is cheaper and NO issues. If anyone wants Jerry's phone #, e-mail me. He ships cars all over the place including Europe. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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