Engine brake?

[I86fire]

Hello folks,

 

I would really like to know this is supposed to work? As a firefighter, I have driven equipment that had jake {Jacobs} brake, Telma Retarders as well as exhaust brakes. They activated when I let off of the throttle except for the Telma Retarder. I have a 2023 on order as well as a 2015 that I currently drive. it only seems to work when going downhill and I tap on the brakes. That doesn't seem like much of a brake to me? Let off the throttle and the unit should slow down no matter how much weight? What am I missing here.

 

Thank you,

 

Chris

[akirby]

You may not always want it to brake - you might want it to coast in some situations.  That lets you control it.

[RWTIII]

I’ve only had my 2022 F350 for 10 days and have spent about 40 hrs doing research on YouTube and Ford forums. A lot to learn on computerized super duty’s. 
What I’ve found on the exhaust brake is there are multiple settings, full brake, auto braking etc.. Changed by pressing the exhaust brake selector. I’ll check mine when I get home.

[Rangers09]

22 hours ago, I86fire said:

Hello folks,

 

I would really like to know this is supposed to work? As a firefighter, I have driven equipment that had jake {Jacobs} brake, Telma Retarders as well as exhaust brakes. They activated when I let off of the throttle except for the Telma Retarder. I have a 2023 on order as well as a 2015 that I currently drive. it only seems to work when going downhill and I tap on the brakes. That doesn't seem like much of a brake to me? Let off the throttle and the unit should slow down no matter how much weight? What am I missing here.

 

Thank you,

 

Chris

 

In addition to the foot brake pedal, my 22MY F-450 has 2 additional ways to control speed going downhill.

 

The exhaust brake is activated by a button on the dash - 1 press activates manual mode, which I normally use. I recall from reading the manual it may also have an auto-mode accessed by pressing the button twice. I use manual mode in conjunction with locking out gears in tow/haul mode. At the top of a steep hill (anything 6% or greater), I lock out gears, activate the exhaust brake button and set a safe speed before the descent.

 

Going down 6% with 16,500 lb 5th wheel, I rarely have to touch the brake pedal. At 8%, I have to tap the brakes occasionally. When descending 12% it requires a low gear and frequent use of the brakes.

[I86fire]

Thank you all for your responses. My 2015 doesn't the various settings. It's either on or off. I hope that my new truck performs much better with the different settings.

 

Thank you,

 

Chris 

[akirby]

22 hours ago, RWTIII said:

I’ve only had my 2022 F350 for 10 days and have spent about 40 hrs doing research on YouTube and Ford forums. A lot to learn on computerized super duty’s. 
What I’ve found on the exhaust brake is there are multiple settings, full brake, auto braking etc.. Changed by pressing the exhaust brake selector. I’ll check mine when I get home.

Are you sure you have an engine brake or is it just hill descent control?

[Rangers09]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Are you sure you have an engine brake or is it just hill descent control?

 

Can't speak for the 2015, but my previous 2016 F-350 DRW had the engine brake similar to the 22 F-450. It wasn't a descent control.

[akirby]

50 minutes ago, Rangers09 said:

 

Can't speak for the 2015, but my previous 2016 F-350 DRW had the engine brake similar to the 22 F-450. It wasn't a descent control.

I can’t find any mention of a factory engine brake in 2015, 2016 or 2022 order guides or owner’s manuals. Unless there is a different order guide or supplement somewhere.  Just hill descent control.  

[Rangers09]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

I can’t find any mention of a factory engine brake in 2015, 2016 or 2022 order guides or owner’s manuals. Unless there is a different order guide or supplement somewhere.  Just hill descent control.  

 

2022 Super Duty Manual on page 8 (Index) lists a heading "Diesel Engine Exhaust Brake" with the information on pages 244/245. The button on the dash also resembles an exhaust pipe.

 

My understanding of hill descent control is that it notes the vehicle speed and endeavours to maintain that speed downhill by applying the brakes. The exhaust brake, as fitted to the Super Dutys, does not apply the brakes, which is what we are trying to avoid, when we tow large trailers. Neither of the exhaust brakes on my 16 or 22 would maintain the speed at more than 6% and did not apply the brakes.

 

My 2013 F-350 SRW did not have the exhaust brake.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Rangers09 said:

 

2022 Super Duty Manual on page 8 (Index) lists a heading "Diesel Engine Exhaust Brake" with the information on pages 244/245. The button on the dash also resembles an exhaust pipe.

 

My understanding of hill descent control is that it notes the vehicle speed and endeavours to maintain that speed downhill by applying the brakes. The exhaust brake, as fitted to the Super Dutys, does not apply the brakes, which is what we are trying to avoid, when we tow large trailers. Neither of the exhaust brakes on my 16 or 22 would maintain the speed at more than 6% and did not apply the brakes.

 

My 2013 F-350 SRW did not have the exhaust brake.

Strange that the order guide never mentions it.

[GreyShadow350]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

Strange that the order guide never mentions it.

 

In the 2022 order guide dated 3-15-21, page 16 in the Engine/Transmission area, Exhaust Brake is listed in the description for the 6.7 PowerStroke.  It does mention the modes of use though.

 

The exhaust brake is also listed in the same area of the 2023 order guide (dated 10-25-22), page 18, and is listed for both the 6.7 and 6.7 HO.  Again, no mention of modes of use though.

 

On 1/31/2023 at 3:43 PM, I86fire said:

Hello folks,

 

I would really like to know this is supposed to work? As a firefighter, I have driven equipment that had jake {Jacobs} brake, Telma Retarders as well as exhaust brakes. They activated when I let off of the throttle except for the Telma Retarder. I have a 2023 on order as well as a 2015 that I currently drive. it only seems to work when going downhill and I tap on the brakes. That doesn't seem like much of a brake to me? Let off the throttle and the unit should slow down no matter how much weight? What am I missing here.

 

Thank you,

 

Chris

 

I also have a 2023 on order, and this will be my first diesel, so I've been researching this as well.  From reading on the web, the Exhaust Brake "On" mode, will apply the exhaust brake whenever you let off the throttle pedal.  The "Auto" mode (2 button presses), will attempt to hold the truck at the speed at which you let off the throttle.  So for example, if you are approaching a long descent and know what speed you want to be at, slow to that speed, press the EB button twice (for Auto mode) and then let off the throttle.

 

I also saw that the Exhaust Brake will not work if the motor is at or under 1300 rpm.  Above 1300 rpm, the brake will provide varying degrees of assistance.  The higher the rpm the greater "slowing" (I won't say stopping) power it will have.

 

I'll be looking to try this out once I get the new truck.  This information is from the 2022's, so I am assuming that the 2023's will be the same.

 

Scott

[akirby]

1 hour ago, GreyShadow350 said:

 

In the 2022 order guide dated 3-15-21, page 16 in the Engine/Transmission area, Exhaust Brake is listed in the description for the 6.7 PowerStroke.  It does mention the modes of use though.

 

The exhaust brake is also listed in the same area of the 2023 order guide (dated 10-25-22), page 18, and is listed for both the 6.7 and 6.7 HO.  Again, no mention of modes of use though.

 

Aahhhh…… it says engine/exhaust braking.  I was searching for “brake”

[akirby]

17 hours ago, I86fire said:

Thank you all for your responses. My 2015 doesn't the various settings. It's either on or off. I hope that my new truck performs much better with the different settings.

 

Thank you,

 

Chris 

Think of it like driving a manual in 1st gear.  When you let off the gas the engine will slow the vehicle (to a point).  Or if you’re going downhill it will keep it at a lower speed.   You can slow down just by downshifting because the engine compression works against momentum.  But in a diesel when you take your foot off the gas there is no engine compression - it freewheels.  The exhaust brake adds engine compression thereby slowing it down similar to a gas engine.

[GreyShadow350]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Think of it like driving a manual in 1st gear.  When you let off the gas the engine will slow the vehicle (to a point).  Or if you’re going downhill it will keep it at a lower speed.   You can slow down just by downshifting because the engine compression works against momentum.  But in a diesel when you take your foot off the gas there is no engine compression - it freewheels.  The exhaust brake adds engine compression thereby slowing it down similar to a gas engine.

 

Thanks for explaining it that way.  That helps me out as well.

[Rangers09]

4 hours ago, GreyShadow350 said:

 

In the 2022 order guide dated 3-15-21, page 16 in the Engine/Transmission area, Exhaust Brake is listed in the description for the 6.7 PowerStroke.  It does mention the modes of use though.

 

The exhaust brake is also listed in the same area of the 2023 order guide (dated 10-25-22), page 18, and is listed for both the 6.7 and 6.7 HO.  Again, no mention of modes of use though.

 

 

I also have a 2023 on order, and this will be my first diesel, so I've been researching this as well.  From reading on the web, the Exhaust Brake "On" mode, will apply the exhaust brake whenever you let off the throttle pedal.  The "Auto" mode (2 button presses), will attempt to hold the truck at the speed at which you let off the throttle.  So for example, if you are approaching a long descent and know what speed you want to be at, slow to that speed, press the EB button twice (for Auto mode) and then let off the throttle.

 

I also saw that the Exhaust Brake will not work if the motor is at or under 1300 rpm.  Above 1300 rpm, the brake will provide varying degrees of assistance.  The higher the rpm the greater "slowing" (I won't say stopping) power it will have.

 

I'll be looking to try this out once I get the new truck.  This information is from the 2022's, so I am assuming that the 2023's will be the same.

 

Scott

 

In addition to the exhaust brake, if going down long steep grades you can also lock out gears. In tow/haul mode, if you apply the brake pedal, it will downshift and remain at the lower gear. Rather than using the brake pedal, I find it easier to set the truck up in the gear i want and the speed I want at the top of the hill. Use the +/- on the shifter to gear down and lock out higher gears. With this and exhaust brake you can descend steep grades with minimal to no use of the brakes.

 

I have 16,500 lbs pushing me downhill.

 

My 22MY is similar to my previous 16MY with the exhaust brake, so I expect the 23MY's to also be similar.

[4x4ord]

On 1/31/2023 at 1:43 PM, I86fire said:

Hello folks,

 

I would really like to know this is supposed to work? As a firefighter, I have driven equipment that had jake {Jacobs} brake, Telma Retarders as well as exhaust brakes. They activated when I let off of the throttle except for the Telma Retarder. I have a 2023 on order as well as a 2015 that I currently drive. it only seems to work when going downhill and I tap on the brakes. That doesn't seem like much of a brake to me? Let off the throttle and the unit should slow down no matter how much weight? What am I missing here.

 

Thank you,

 

Chris

The exhaust brake on my 2022 is not a whole lot better than it was on my 2016. The 2022 has the "auto" mode which is nice but doesn't make the exhaust brake any stronger. Think of your engine as an air pump .... the faster it turns the more air it pumps. The exhaust brake is like a nozzle on the end of a hose .... turn the nozzle down and the pressure increases. The power it takes for your engine to pump air is a function of the air volume (which is determined by engine displacement and rpm) times the back pressure. The maximum back pressure that the EB can build is limited by the strength of the springs on the exhaust valves ... if the back pressure is allowed to build too high the exhaust valves can begin to float. So to be effective  the Ford EB requires high engine rpm... (very high back pressure is not an option on the Powerstroke).

 

The "auto" mode is nice. It is especially useful when descending long steep grades. You simply hit the EB button twice to turn it to auto. If it is on auto and you are descending a long steep grade with a heavy trailer it will attempt to shift the transmission and adjust the "nozzle" such that the engine will hold the truck/trailer at the speed you were traveling when your foot was removed from either the brake pedal or the throttle. So, if you are descending at 45 mph and you want to speed up to 50 mph you simply touch the throttle until the truck hits 50 mph; if you remove your foot from the throttle at 50 mph, 50 mph becomes your new set point. If you are descending at 45 mph and want to slow to 35 mph, simply brake until 35 mph and when you take your foot off the brake pedal 35 mph becomes your new set point.

[GreyShadow350]

1 hour ago, Rangers09 said:

 

In addition to the exhaust brake, if going down long steep grades you can also lock out gears. In tow/haul mode, if you apply the brake pedal, it will downshift and remain at the lower gear. Rather than using the brake pedal, I find it easier to set the truck up in the gear i want and the speed I want at the top of the hill. Use the +/- on the shifter to gear down and lock out higher gears. With this and exhaust brake you can descend steep grades with minimal to no use of the brakes.

 

I have 16,500 lbs pushing me downhill.

 

My 22MY is similar to my previous 16MY with the exhaust brake, so I expect the 23MY's to also be similar.

 

43 minutes ago, 4x4ord said:

The exhaust brake on my 2022 is not a whole lot better than it was on my 2016. The 2022 has the "auto" mode which is nice but doesn't make the exhaust brake any stronger. Think of your engine as an air pump .... the faster it turns the more air it pumps. The exhaust brake is like a nozzle on the end of a hose .... turn the nozzle down and the pressure increases. The power it takes for your engine to pump air is a function of the air volume (which is determined by engine displacement and rpm) times the back pressure. The maximum back pressure that the EB can build is limited by the strength of the springs on the exhaust valves ... if the back pressure is allowed to build too high the exhaust valves can begin to float. So to be effective  the Ford EB requires high engine rpm... (very high back pressure is not an option on the Powerstroke).

 

The "auto" mode is nice. It is especially useful when descending long steep grades. You simply hit the EB button twice to turn it to auto. If it is on auto and you are descending a long steep grade with a heavy trailer it will attempt to shift the transmission and adjust the "nozzle" such that the engine will hold the truck/trailer at the speed you were traveling when your foot was removed from either the brake pedal or the throttle. So, if you are descending at 45 mph and you want to speed up to 50 mph you simply touch the throttle until the truck hits 50 mph; if you remove your foot from the throttle at 50 mph, 50 mph becomes your new set point. If you are descending at 45 mph and want to slow to 35 mph, simply brake until 35 mph and when you take your foot off the brake pedal 35 mph becomes your new set point.

 

Thank you both for this information.  Looking forward to getting my truck, and being able to try this out.

[4x4ord]

Just to offer a little more clarification: Say you are descending a steep grade with an 18,000 lb trailer in tow and you take your foot off the brake while the EB is set to auto and the transmission is in second gear at 3200 engine rpm and about 45mph, the EB will attempt to hold 45 mph, but it might not be able to. If not the truck will continue to accelerate until the engine revs to a point where it can produce the necessary reverse HP to hold a constant speed or until the engine reaches the redline (at which point the computer will automatically apply the truck's and trailer's wheel brakes for a short period to slow the truck down a bit before releasing the brakes and allowing the EB to once again attempt to maintain the speed).