Small-car nation

[pcsario]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/25/automobi...nyt&emc=rss

 

 

"the Versa has been just as comfortable as his Sable, and the fuel economy is a third better. “It’s a great little car", he said.

 

Because of buyers like Mr. Dupre, sales of small cars will easily be the highest this year since the beginning of this decade. Automakers are on track to sell about 2.5 million small cars in 2006, equal to about 15 percent of the car market, or 1.5 percentage points more than they sold in 2005.

 

By comparison, only about 2.3 million S.U.V.’s are expected to be sold this year, about 14 percent of the market"

 

:reading:

[Roadrunner]

The bias here is city living versus county living.

 

However -- big however -- you're seeing a lot more sedan sales versus trucks and SUVs (we all know this, but I've noticed it and I live in truck country).

[retro-man]

A few years ago, I had occasion to load up the Escort Station Wagon - in February - and make the 8 hour drive from Western Washington to Sun Peaks in Eastern BC, across several mountain passes, and through some lonely, lonely terrain, loaded up with wife, 2 kids, ski equipment, clothes, boots, and luggage for a 1-week stay. It was fine, no problem. People who come on like they need 40 acres of truck to do these things have other, more Freudian, motivations that they're not even aware of themselves, if you ask me.

 

 

From the article:

Mr. Brauer voiced frustration that Detroit carmakers have failed for the most part to introduce imaginative small models, even though they have dabbled in them with their concept cars, like the gutsy Dodge Hornet, which Chrysler displayed at the Geneva Motor Show in March.

 

“The Hornet needs to come out yesterday,†Mr. Brauer said. “But they’ll sit back on what they know and miss out on another market niche.â€

Man, that's Detroit in a nutshell.

Edited November 11, 2006 by retro-man

[bec5150]

Chrysler is the biggest culprit. They had a pretty decent small car in the Neon and look what they replaced it with...

 

ICK!!!!

[marc-o]

A few years ago, I had occasion to load up the Escort Station Wagon - in February - and make the 8 hour drive from Western Washington to Sun Peaks in Eastern BC, across several mountain passes, and through some lonely, lonely terrain, loaded up with wife, 2 kids, ski equipment, clothes, boots, and luggage for a 1-week stay. It was fine, no problem. People who come on like they need 40 acres of truck to do these things have other, more Freudian, motivations that they're not even aware of themselves, if you ask me.

From the article:

 

Man, that's Detroit in a nutshell.

 

I don't understand how something can be so true, simple, yet so elusive to so many people - or are you proposing that a large number of people feel they have insufficient genitalia?

[156n3rd]

Modern small cars are awesome! Too bad we're ot able to sample all the European models not sold here. Then, Asian manufacturers would get a run for their money. U.S. companies still don't get it. As the article mentioned all those first wave imports from the '70's, some avoided them like the plague and others are still driving the current models of those brands. The U.S. may get it some day, but they haven't woken from the 1970's slumber yet. I've been in a Vauxhall Astra, A Eurp-spec Focus, a Mondeo, a Skoda Octavia and even an old Rover wagon (not the suv brand) and they all are small, well-built and fuel efficient. If we all had an opportunity to test all those Euro brands not sold here, we'd find that they should be sold here.

[retro-man]

I don't understand how something can be so true, simple, yet so elusive to so many people - or are you proposing that a large number of people feel they have insufficient genitalia?

:shrug:

Edited November 11, 2006 by retro-man

[ebritt]

Chrysler is the biggest culprit. They had a pretty decent small car in the Neon and look what they replaced it with...

 

ICK!!!!

The Neon looked cool (SRT-4) but it was a turd. My freind at the dealership told me to stay away from them cause they almsot always came back to the shop.

 

I don't understand how something can be so true, simple, yet so elusive to so many people - or are you proposing that a large number of people feel they have insufficient genitalia?

While there is no genitalia issue (married for 20 years, have no need for them anymore ) I dont mind driving a small car, I just dont like have to get in through a door opening that is too small or having to scrunch down so my head doesent touch the roof.

 

A small car ,with bigger doors and a taller roofline suits me just fine, especially if it gets 30+ MPG.

[taxman100]

We have a Corolla, and yeah, it was decent when it was new, but I hate the car other than for fuel economy. At 100,000 miles, it has become a noisy, buzzy, rattletrap.

 

For commuting to work for 30 minutes at a time, it's functional, but anything else, not interested. Of course, that is what, 90% of my driving?

 

If you want to sacrifice, we could get by with two small cars, but we'll always have one large vehicle.

[toyboxrv]

A few years ago, I had occasion to load up the Escort Station Wagon - in February - and make the 8 hour drive from Western Washington to Sun Peaks in Eastern BC, across several mountain passes, and through some lonely, lonely terrain, loaded up with wife, 2 kids, ski equipment, clothes, boots, and luggage for a 1-week stay. It was fine, no problem. People who come on like they need 40 acres of truck to do these things have other, more Freudian, motivations that they're not even aware of themselves, if you ask me.

From the article:

 

Man, that's Detroit in a nutshell.

 

Why is it that some people that find a small car adequate for their needs have to insult others who don't have the same life they have. I don't have any Freudian motivations. I do have the desire to ride a dirt bike in remote areas and camp for several days at a time in my 5th wheel and don't feel like sharing my living area with the bears. I would consider my choice to be as normal as your going skiing somewhere, but somehow you place yourself above me. Why should I buy a second vehicle just so I can please people like you? I have 2 acres and last time I checked my truck is far less than that, let alone 40. Do you have some Freudian issues you are not aware of that would make you exaggerate to such a degree in an attempt to make a point?

 

I use my truck for things an Escort wagon could never accomplish. Is there a reason I should give up my desires in life because you have different ones. It's a waste of money and time to try and rent someone else's truck for the times I need one, not to mention that rental companies don't have 5th wheel hitches in their trucks and typically don't want people to tow a trailer that's not theirs either. A 5th wheel trailer is much more stable than other types, so don't suggest I get a different trailer either. I don't need to sacrifice trailer stability and my safety to make changes you think I should.

 

Tell me how small and efficient of a house I should have to meet your standards? I am supposing your housing requirements are met with an equal amount of concern as your vehicle choices. :shades:

[retro-man]

Trailer eh? That explains it.

 

I kid, I kid! Sounds like you use yours for its intended purpose. So, enjoy.

Edited November 11, 2006 by retro-man

[marc-o]

I have no problem with people using trucks and SUVs for their intended uses, which is why I never speak in absolutes about them.

 

If you need it and use it, great, I know several who do too - fantastic. However it's clear to me that many trucks and SUV's are not needed and used for their purpose, and that's who (in my opinion) needs to adjust what they drive, because it adversely affects me on the road.

[Guest Sixcav]

I would agree with most of that Marc-o although I'm not sure how someone else driving an SUV or pickup adversely affects you on the road. Personally I like my little car and like you I understand the need for a larger vehicle when it suits those specific needs. For example, I love to go camping. I have so much camping shit I could literally move outside for a couple years and probably be comfortable. lol To that end I could see me owning a big SUV or pickup to lug all my gear to a campsite you know. But I have to look at it rationally too. The majority of the time I'm not camping. The majority of the time I'm going to and from work or running errands. So why do I need a large SUV, that while it may meet my needs for camping, it just doesn't make sense 95% of the time. This is the case for most large SUV owners. The fraction of time they actually use all that space as intended is so small as to make the vehicle unnecessary. Now that wouldn't matter if SUV's didn't drink gas and cost you a fortune. But they do.

[toyboxrv]

I would agree with most of that Marc-o although I'm not sure how someone else driving an SUV or pickup adversely affects you on the road. Personally I like my little car and like you I understand the need for a larger vehicle when it suits those specific needs. For example, I love to go camping. I have so much camping shit I could literally move outside for a couple years and probably be comfortable. lol To that end I could see me owning a big SUV or pickup to lug all my gear to a campsite you know. But I have to look at it rationally too. The majority of the time I'm not camping. The majority of the time I'm going to and from work or running errands. So why do I need a large SUV, that while it may meet my needs for camping, it just doesn't make sense 95% of the time. This is the case for most large SUV owners. The fraction of time they actually use all that space as intended is so small as to make the vehicle unnecessary. Now that wouldn't matter if SUV's didn't drink gas and cost you a fortune. But they do.

 

I may only need my truck's abilities 10% of the time, but if I don't have it, then I can't go camping or haul the things I need to haul. That would mean giving up those things because others think I don't have enough justification for owning a truck. Can't see the reason to own a second vehicle just to save money on gas, but increase money spent on insurance and payments. That's money I can spend on other things. I did buy a 70 mpg motorcycle to enjoy my commute more and save some money on fuel. The biggest savings is the lack of wear on the truck, although at $3/gal I didn't see where it could pay for itself for the part of the year I could drive it. After Katrina when prices shot up I calculated if a 50 mpg Jetta diesel could pay for itself and decided it wouldn't come close.

 

You didn't say how you go camping without a vehicle to cart around your gear, short of leaving a bunch of it home. If I was concerned that much about a cost in my life, I likely wouldn't have bought a dirt bike that provides no practical function, except for maintaining my level of sanity. It does keep my doctor in stitches though.

[Guest Sixcav]

You didn't say how you go camping without a vehicle to cart around your gear, short of leaving a bunch of it home.

 

Depends on the sort of trip really. A weekend trip you can get away with just a backpack, which will fit in any car. That will hold everything you need. For longer excursions that require a large walk-in tent I usually go with friends and several of them have pickups so we just use one of those. But, truth be told, I could get everything into the back of a station wagon once it's properly packed up so that's why I'm still considering an Outback wagon next purchase. The best of both worlds so to speak.

[g48150]

I'm 6'6, and not a small man, I fit PERFECTLY with room to spare in the Nissan Versa's front seat.

 

All this when RJ rips me a new one for saying that Ford should build "tiny" cars.

 

Can't argue with what the people want. :stats:

 

I don't understand how something can be so true, simple, yet so elusive to so many people - or are you proposing that a large number of people feel they have insufficient genitalia?

 

 

Have you been to the "brothels" near Dearborn lately?

 

Hellooooooo

 

Ask the "exotic dancers" about that very topic my man, you'll get the answer you're looking for.

[toyboxrv]

Depends on the sort of trip really. A weekend trip you can get away with just a backpack, which will fit in any car. That will hold everything you need. For longer excursions that require a large walk-in tent I usually go with friends and several of them have pickups so we just use one of those. But, truth be told, I could get everything into the back of a station wagon once it's properly packed up so that's why I'm still considering an Outback wagon next purchase. The best of both worlds so to speak.

 

Might work for you, but last time I suggested to my friends we use their truck to tow my 5th wheel, they weren't very receptive. If an Outback allows you do do more of what you need and want, then it's a better solution to your lifestyle. So far the best solution to mine is a truck even if I only need that truck 10% of the time. I don't see many people moving out of their house to the smallest possible one just to save on energy costs. I do see people doing dumb things to try and save money on gas.

[NJSteve3]

I don't see many people moving out of their house to the smallest possible one just to save on energy costs. I do see people doing dumb things to try and save money on gas.

 

Excellent point. No one ever protests Toll Brothers for building what the market demands. The resource consumption and cost associated with heating, cooling, lighting, etc, are at least as much as auto fuel consumption for most families... not to mention the impact on RE taxes - especially in the Garden State.

[Guest Sixcav]

Might work for you, but last time I suggested to my friends we use their truck to tow my 5th wheel, they weren't very receptive.

 

Yeah to each his own man. To me a 5th wheel isn't camping man, it's just towing a smaller version of your house with you. Not that there's anything wrong with a nice pull behind, I just wouldn't call it camping. It's more like "recreational activity". lol

Edited November 12, 2006 by Sixcav

[toyboxrv]

Yeah to each his own man. To me a 5th wheel isn't camping man, it's just towing a smaller version of your house with you. Not that there's anything wrong with a nice pull behind, I just wouldn't call it camping. It's more like "recreational activity". lol

 

I didn't criticize your form of camping, so why act like a dick towards me? The area where I go has had problems with bears ripping up tents and the canvas sides of a pop up. So go ahead and call what you do camping and what I do less than that. The bears where I go call you recreational activity.

 

I did mention that I ride my dirt bike, which I guess to you is just recreational activity, and after a few hours of riding I work up a sweat and my GF really appreciates that I take a shower. Two or three days of that would be a bit much to deal with even without the bears. Nothing wrong with being civilized enough to bring my own toilet. My first trip this year was with temps still in the mid 30's overnight and I was asked to turn on the heat. The USFS had open fires banned, although propane or camp stove cooking was allowed. No TV, no cell phone, cooking outside, no nearby McDonalds is a far cry from being home.

 

Pull behinds are less stable than a 5th wheel and I place a level of importance on that. The 5th wheel also gives me a place to carry the bike. Don't expect other people to be just like you or be wrong.

[Guest Sixcav]

Woe, woe, calm yourself. I said there's nothing wrong with it remember? To each his own remember? I wasn't insulting your preference. It's just not camping to me is all. So what. I don't camp in state parks, they don't allow firearms. I camp in areas where firearms are allowed. A nice campfire and firearms will keep animals away, even bears. As for showering, I can appreciate that, which is why I carry a camp shower, fits in your backpack even. I carry one myself. If you prefer the 5th wheel man have at it. There's nothing wrong with that. I'd do it myself, I just wouldn't call it camping. That's just me. Take it easy already. Sheesh.

[bec5150]

Woe, woe, calm yourself. I said there's nothing wrong with it remember? To each his own remember? I wasn't insulting your preference. It's just not camping to me is all. So what. I don't camp in state parks, they don't allow firearms. I camp in areas where firearms are allowed. A nice campfire and firearms will keep animals away, even bears. As for showering, I can appreciate that, which is why I carry a camp shower, fits in your backpack even. I carry one myself. If you prefer the 5th wheel man have at it. There's nothing wrong with that. I'd do it myself, I just wouldn't call it camping. That's just me. Take it easy already. Sheesh.

He just likes to argue, Six. Don't worry about it. Let him go.

[Guest Sixcav]

He just likes to argue, Six. Don't worry about it. Let him go.

 

Roger that.

[toyboxrv]

Woe, woe, calm yourself. I said there's nothing wrong with it remember? To each his own remember? I wasn't insulting your preference. It's just not camping to me is all. So what. I don't camp in state parks, they don't allow firearms. I camp in areas where firearms are allowed. A nice campfire and firearms will keep animals away, even bears. As for showering, I can appreciate that, which is why I carry a camp shower, fits in your backpack even. I carry one myself. If you prefer the 5th wheel man have at it. There's nothing wrong with that. I'd do it myself, I just wouldn't call it camping. That's just me. Take it easy already. Sheesh.

 

You quoted my post where I said my friends wouldn't let me borrow their truck to tow my 5th wheel and you attack me and my choice of camping with your condescending whatever attitude. It's not a matter of to each his own with you, you insist I am not camping because I don't do what you do. I was having a civil discussion and you escalated it to a put down session. If someone needs to chill, it's you. It seems you're a lot like bec where you make a lot of assumptions. I suppose you think I have hookups where I camp. You'd be just as wrong as your belief I don't have guns. One can enjoy the outdoors without sleeping on the ground.

 

I don't camp in state parks. If you read my post I said the USFS, which means I'm on federal land, had banned campfires. Can't ward off bears with a campfire if you can't have one. Many of us that camp do have firearms, but the last bear problem occurred when we were off riding and a bear visited the campground. One guys wife stayed in her trailer until he was done ripping up the pop up, because she wasn't used to firing a gun. We never leave a fire going at night anyway. Just like bec, you don't pay enough attention.

 

If you want to back a minimal amount of gear in your car and go camping you can even stop near my campsite, although I doubt you would. I also think it may be difficult to get to the place I camp with a car. It's at 8500 ft with a 7.5 mile long climb on a dirt road from a 6700 ft beginning. The last mile rises 800 ft alone. Might not be able to take much gear or many friends.

[Guest Sixcav]

Boy oh boy, you just gotta calm down buddy. Look I'm not going to tell you that sleeping in a trailer is camping. It's not. I'm sure it's fun, and hey that's the real point anyway isn't it. So just because we have differing opinions about what constitutes "camping" doesn't mean I'm trying to insult you man. For me, camping involves a tent. Now I have varying sizes of tents depending on how long I'm going to be out there. Anyway, I'm not going to get into all that. I don't know why you felt to the need to give me the play by play about how you go 5th wheeling. It's your business. Like I said, I'm sure it's great fun, but to me it's not camping man.