pcsario

This wouldn't necessarily have to be a rebadged product coming from a competitor's plant. More like splitting R&D costs for a low profit vehicle.

Yup, this would be my take as well. A partnership with FCA, Nissan, or VW could do wonders for emerging markets. South America is --and will continue to be-- a mess, unless Ford broadens their lineup at the lower end over there.

Cuautitlan's current output might be ~120k a year, but it was declared a 320k plant during its inaugural ceremony. Why did they never use CUAP at its fullest? Dunno... I remember them toying with the idea of building a small coupe and SUV in addition to Fiesta. Perhaps growth in the b segment didn't turn out to be as big as Ford thought.

South America has different production standards/needs, that's why it's rare to see a Brazilian import in the US. Most products are built with a regional business case in mind, and others follow global standards because they also reach 1st world markets and so on. When it comes to Ford, SA also tends to work on a different schedule. IIRC, they were just getting the MK2 Euro Focus in ~2010. The current gen/look just started production last year, their Kinetic Fiesta arrived almost two years later than ours (which was already late compared to Europe) and so on. Ford Brazil unfortunately centers a lot on cost cutting and their input is one of the main reasons why the EcoSport ended up being panned everywhere. It had to be designed around their budget. Too much, IMO. Yes, there was a trade deficit issue with Brazil. It wasn't limited to Ford, though. Still, with the exception of Brazil, most Ford plants in SA are low volume. Judging by the Fiesta, it seems Ford wants to consolidate production plants. So again, we end up where we began. 325k (Cuautitlan) + 350k (New plant) = 675k. We know the Focus platform is involved, we know the Ranger and four new SUVs are coming, so... if it isn't that, how would you fill that production capacity? Almost 700k Focus and EcoSports a year, with most of them going to the US?

LMAO... sorry I've sigs turned off, wouldn't have remembered otherwise. Let me see if I can disable it for that post as well. Anyway, Argentina is a small volume plant. This could be a way to consolidate production. Between this new plant and Cuautitlan, we're talking about, what? 650k units of capacity? That's why I think we're talking about Ford's C and Ranger platforms.

Whatever is sent there, should also make sense to be sold locally and exported to LA as well. Other than C-class vehicles --and perhaps the EcoSport-- the next most obvious candidate for Mexico is the Ranger platform. That would be my guess from a cost-risk-benefit POV.

Whoa... good job Aussie Ford! JPD, these are definitely the first legit spy shots of it. Remember, just like the new Focus, this is a new design spreaded over similar hardpoints.

Eh? The sig is months old. You want to talk about taking things too far, I wasn't the one moderating with a personal agenda. Anyway, take care y'all. I've moved on to higher grounds. :beerchug:

See sig. I was even asked to stay by some very powerful people, but I politely declined because I just don't see the point anymore, RJ already killed the forum. A lot of members... they won't say it outright, but their actions speak for themselves... Igor, Wescoent, etc. also find this place extremely boring now, and spend most of their time on GMI. I don't blame them, people are leaving in droves. Someone made a terrible choice with RJ's promotion. Traffic has gone downhill ever since he took over. The active community has been reduced to 2 or 5 folks replying to themselves over and over and over again. He killed any life this forum had for years with his crap. It's sad how a GM forum, which used to pale in comparison to BON before, became the best place to discuss Ford and the industry. It would be great if Deanh and you would join us.

A grill is not the same thing as a face. Look at the shapes used for the headlights. And yes, I know they aren't technnically the same in all Lincolns, but still... the look doesn't allow for much flexibility. Look at the MKT concept Vs. reality. This language doesn't translate that well in production sheetmetal. (I've been within inches of both, btw) Almost all the cues are there, but it doesn't gel like it did in the concept. The same thing would've probably happened to a production MKR. The kind of precision shown in that sheetmetal is simply not found presently on any production car I know of. I wouldn't be surprised if the grille is the first thing to be modified by Callum, they will probably keep the idea, but refine its execution and use different proportions that flow better on production sheetmetal, and also allow greater flexibility in design.

The ad wasn't aimed at Ford fans. I've said this before, but Toyohonda buyers look at Ford --and its fans-- in the same way you would look at Kia and their customers. I believe you're talking about ad. - It paints new/current Ford customers as trendy people, who know the score, and actually researched before buying. Their research concluded with them going with a Ford, not because it was cheaper, but because it was the superior move (in most cases anyway), and are proud to boast about it. - It shows Ford has made tremendous gains in quality, engineering, and thanks to Fields and Mulally's leadership, far more attention paid to interiors and exteriors, for new products anyway. It's an ad full of confidence, PROVING visually what's being told with words. There's simply no way a V6 Accord or Camry buyer will look at that ad, and not realize they got an inferior product, Vs. the Taurus' anyway. They weren't. There's a difference between being competitive, and on par with the most desired. Irrelevant, plus it would do Ford more harm than good, as not all of their products are made in America. The ad was the first ad I've seen from Ford, aimed at real people, and not just to domestic lovers looking for a "feel good" story. Then there's the MKS ads, and the new ad for the MKZ. Trendy, cool, and NOT aimed at the people who would buy a Ford by default anyway. The Lincoln ads, for example, are brilliant. The average Lincoln buyer already knows how those cars look in & out, they know how a Lincoln dealership smells and so on, but to the average person, it shows them Lincoln is no longer the morgue's parking lot. And the Thunderbird was a massive bomb, need I say more? A lot of people consider the "flying Corvette" ad to be the best car ad in years, yet it did nothing to improve Corvette's sales or GM's image. The "Then & now" Bold Moves ad was cool too, but ultimately failed to tell anyone why they should pick a Ford over the competition. I think, once again, only Ford fans valued it. Now Ford is telling/showing EVERYONE the facts without any BS in 30 secs. and the ads make a very compelling case of why that's one car you should research and not automatically dismiss "because it's a domestic and I won't even go to a dealership to verify these claims".

That's odd. Someone was stating for a fact he was banned at autoblog. Guess it was another clueless statement, as usual. Anyway, nice to see plans for an EB V8.

The RS is usually a "farewell" model for the outgoing generation, and more of an Evo-X competitor. This sounds more like testing the waters for a really agressive looking, next-gen Focus ST, with similar HP.

A little slow are we? I couldn't care less about being banned, I'm even dissapointed about the lack of veredict right now. Nick is free to answer whatever he wants to the higher ups. Let me be perfectly clear about this: I don't feel scared or threatened at all, I've been LAUGHING at RJ ever since he lost it over this, it's always the same thing and shows how just fragile his little word is. The perfect example of someone who likes to dish it out (mhlm, diesels, Lutz, etc.), but can't take anything himself. HE does want to kick me out, and has for a while, because he realizes that's the only recourse he has to somehow "get back at me" and feel better about his miserable life. Can't do shit about "One Ford", can't also do shit to fix his life. All he has is his this place. His self-steem is based around this place, around being a mod in a little internet forum, which he uses like a child as his personal sandbox and buddy-buddy chatroom. He's a 30+ year old balding virgin who gets zero action outside, as explained by his daily 24/7 presence, who got owned by those he hates most, by life, and by the own company he claims to love, but hasn't supported in over 10 years. - He was owned by Mulally. - He was owned by Fields. - He was owned by Kuzak. - He was owned by Mays. No one in FNA is siding with his vision of what Ford should be. The future is kinetic, the future will be based on FOE-inspired looks for the next 10 years. He was wrong about everything he minimized others for. There's no 11.5k Fiesta coming, nor was Horbury replaced with another Horbury... duh. So yeah, can see where his rage is coming from. I guess I would also attempt to cover the sun with a finger. From now on, no matter what he attempts to do, if he succeeds or not against me, I already won. I'm not P71. I don't own a Panther. The Mondeo will live. CD3 will die. Red white and bold is dead. Next? Maybe I will buy the FOE-inspired kinetic Taurus, or the FOE-inspired kinetic Fusion, maybe the FOE-inspired kinetic Kuga or Fiesta. Haven't made up my mind. We're easily talking about a 10 year lifecycle for "One Ford" when everything is said and done, which I'll enjoy --tremendously-- outside, as a the true Ford fan that I am. Long after I'm gone, voluntarily "or not", I'll finally be enjoying the Ford I enviosioned long ago. Others? Well... they'll continue to lie to themselves about having "fixed" reality with my departure, just like they're doing with P71's, while elsewhere --and almost daily now-- someone is continuing his usual meltdowns every time something related to One Ford is discussed. So, everyone who doesn't like it, talk or do whatever you want, I'm already putting this as my sig. Just be fully aware I'll enjoy the ride, and it will last far more than the time it takes to write a post, or pushing a red button. BTW, FordBuyer, no. I'm not a GM fanboy. I registered ~7 years ago because I'm a Ford fan, stockholder, and proud owner of 2 Fords (04, 06 MY). Due to my direct input, Ford has sold over 20 vehicles over the last 5 years among my family. Ford has seen more money out of me than they've got from RJ in over a decade (but he likes to think of himself as Ford's biggest supporter here... LMAO). I've a vested interest in Ford which explains my constant frustration, pre-Mulally's and Fields Ford, about implementing the necessary actions that several people --obviously including myself-- demanded for years, and finally got, and will be getting, in a big way. I'm just not a fanboy who bashes everything not done by "my team", and yes no matter how many times you guys want to ignore it, I've praised the F150, Mustang and even the interior of the Flex several times. Now I do praise the kinetic Taurus. Notice how you don't have to "convince" anyone to like something that shows a lot of effort was put behind it, and notice how the difference is usually night and day... a little strange when someone kept insisting things "were good enough" before the official BON grouches took over.

There's a LWB Mondeo and we all know about Volvo's recent LWB S80, so it's a safe stretch. Yes it could be done, just not this gen. BTW Austin or someone else said the Edge has it's own platform, it's not really CD3.

Interior looks decent. And 30 MPG? That's better than the Escape, seems to be roomier too. Nice.

I can already imagine the exchange: RJ: "Sir, there's this guy that's really annoying to "all of us". We need to get rid of him, RIGHT NICK?" Nick: "(awkward moment) Do I really need to have an stance on this?" RJ: "Yes, you DO support me, right?" Nick: "It's really not about that...." RJ: "Nick, if you're not with me, then you're against me." Nick: "(WTF?) Uh yeah, whatever dude." RJ: "Sir, see, the concensus is there! Just give me your blessing to go ahead, you gotta TRUST ME on this! He's bad for BON! *Insert heavily one sided story here*" Robert or someone else: "Ok, do what you feel is right and stop bugging me. If he has commited these grave, unique sins that none of your friends do, then go ahead and cast the stone. Please give me his username..." RJ to board: "The mods were all in agreement folks! Told you so! Huzzah!" </thread> :rolleyes: Trust me, life goes on and I really don't care. If this thing was really about winning or losing, then I've already won no matter what he does. He'll be reminded of that over and over again until the "One Ford" lifecycle is complete, so yeah, some "victory" he'll be having.

When Mays was at FNA, he had his fans and detractors inside the studio. When he left, for those designers who didn't like him, Horbury was a breath of fresh air, and others disliked him because he wasn't disciplined enough, Freeman Thomas --who along with Martin Smith are disciples of the Audi school of design-- being one of them, according to an AN piece. Once Mulally arrived, his "One Ford" vision clashed with Horbury's plans. I believe Mulally and Co. wanted kinetic all along. Mays simply did what the bosses were hinting him to do. Once Steve Mattin left Volvo, Fields and Mulally found the perfect excuse to get rid of Horbury.

And like I already said on that: "Why should I start a poll again? You're the only one complaining about my return. And --you'll love this-- that's a FACT." With that I'm done on that topic. I haven't done anything that's unusual and sanctioned by you, for others, on this site.

Oh so it's clear now. You can insult my family with a racist term, use us as your toys, etc. but I'm not allowed to "attack" a moderator. Got it, feeling pretty good now, even. BTW, what I said about Nick is true, he said so himself before becoming a mod, we even like to argue every now and then so ditto for you: I'm not putting words in his mouth, and he's free to decide whatever he wants, just don't lie about him wanting me banned, ok? It is true, you're the only mod pushing for my head, I seriously doubt any other mod would've me at the top of their head. BTW, a little history: You specifically tried to discredit me months ago for the "sin" of saying the Fiesta wouldn't cost 10k. All I said was "We're talking about a car launching in 2010, car prices are going up, steel prices are going up yadda yadda... rumors are placing the Fiesta @ 13k and I believe it's a realistic estimate". Your response? Along the lines of "IGNORE PC AND HIS DIATRIBE, FIESTA WILL BE 11.5K PLUS DESTINATION, TOPS!" And you've acted like that on many other topics, basically minimizing whatever I had to say just because it didn't sit well with you. Well, Ford went from talk to imprementation, and I've all the right to vindicate myself when almost all the things I said would happen, happened. I've admitted my mistakes many times in the past. You've a problem doing the same. In a way I'm not surprised by your sudden urge to "fix" things. Just don't associate it with the board or this "we" self-proclaimed majority. PS.- Keep "getting back" at mhlm for being wrong about diesels, then "getting back" at those who believed in Lutz, then getting mad at me for "attacking" you. I know there's a term for that behavior...

And saying "No, negative retard is NOT an insult" magically makes it true, right? Face it, you're cherry picking targets out of personal agendas. Period. That signature was actually mocking someone else's at the time. But you do provide a nice example of how it's only a joke, for instance, you and White99GT have a sense of humor and mess around with me every now and then, or viceversa, you joke, I joke, etc. The only name that's on that list for something not humorous is RJ, when he specifically chose to insult my family with a racist term to try to get at me.

About mhlm: You gave it a free pass. You've posted in it dozens of times, almost encouraging such things. That's kinda like an NFL referee hi5'ing the player that just scored, not to mention your agenda is well known. Saying "I didn't do it!" really doesn't change anything there, I know why it was done, I respect it. Just pointing out the irony. And again, define "we". You're the only mod asking for my head. Nick might not WANT to defend me, but he doesn't have anything against me either, ditto with Robert. You would just be pushing them to validate something YOU want to do. Bottomline is I haven't done anything wrong or unusual on BON, so again, do what you WANT to do and send them a link to this thread, just stop this charade about doing it in the name of others... while ignoring others, because this "we" thing is getting ridiculous.

Nope I don't. Not any different from your friend Edstock up there, fitting the text in your quote to a tee. Sorry about that, I forgot you don't moderate with an agenda or cherry pick targets. My bad. They see what I post here. They let me be a member. There's no one here asking for my head. Define "we". I feel like I'm a bar here most of the time, just chillin' with others talking about Ford. Whatever they say to me, I know they don't really mean it, including the attacks. As for you feeling harrased... please. Look at what you did to mhlm and his threads. Ooooh... you were just having a sense of humor there. Isn't that irony at its finest? Why should I start a poll again? You're the only one complaining about my return. And --you'll love this-- that's a FACT.

I've done nothing wrong here, nor have I insulted anyone by calling them morons and the like, the kind of attitude you constantly tolerate when it's aimed at me. And the Dr. Phill thing wasn't an insult, it was a fact. Questioning my mental sanity with long winded posts is not cool, nor was attacking my family with your wetback comment a long time ago. I haven't come anywhere CLOSE to that with you or your friends (edit: Sadly, until today for the 1st. time), yet here you are acting once again like you're on some sort of higher ground, morals-wise. Do quote this post when talking to them. If I'm gone, I at least want them to respectfully know you moderate with a personal agenda, because other than you, and you --repeatedly-- no one else seems to want me banned. Oh, except those you constantly play a blind eye on. Having a different viewpoint than yours is not a reason to ban anyone, especially when you have declared yourself to be a contrarian. If everyone here had mod powers and used the same criteria you use, 99.9% of the board would be banned by now. It's just silly, just stop cherry picking targets already out of personal agendas and, dare I say it, hidden hate. I've been a member for almost 7 years. SEVEN years, and yet, I only became "an issue" once you were given a voice. Food for thought.

Thanks, and yes the Flex pricing model should be avoided like the plague...lol The Fit starts @ 14.7k. Selling the Fiesta for ~1k less, trim by trim, Vs. the Fit doesn't sound unreasonable to me. The Fit comes rather well equipped in base trim. No plastic door handles, hubcaps, etc. It already feels superior to the Aveo, Versa, etc. in image due to that alone. Anyway, this would look reasonable to me; ~14-18k for the regular Fiesta, from base trim, to fully loaded with leather navi etc. ~18-20k for the Ecoboost Fiesta ST, from cloth, to leather recaros navi etc. BTW if Ford really refuses to kill Mercury, they should give them the convertible versions of the Focus and Fiesta.