Whats up with the UAW

[scottyboy]

Now that the UAW,and it's members have taken all thats to get from ford , and the other auto manufactures,all they are doing is crying how screwed up Ford is. What other company has to pay thier employees overtime when they work less then 40 hours per week.? What other comapny has to pay thier employees even if they are laid off ? I'm sure thier is a long list of stuff that the union got in thier contracts over the years,that makes ford un-profitable. The only mistake that ford made was giving all these things to the union over the years. As I read all this crap on these posts, everyone seems to think that ford OWES them something. Bottom line is you should go to work,do a days work and you get paid for the day. Take care of yourself and your family for the future. The company owes you nothing. This is the problem with unions, You pay them dues,they take your money,and you expect to be taken care of until you die. You should be taking care of yourselfs as the gravy train is over, and now you might need to work again.

 

Now that the UAW,and it's members have taken all thats to get from ford , and the other auto manufactures,all they are doing is crying how screwed up Ford is. What other company has to pay thier employees overtime when they work less then 40 hours per week.? What other comapny has to pay thier employees even if they are laid off ? I'm sure thier is a long list of stuff that the union got in thier contracts over the years,that makes ford un-profitable. The only mistake that ford made was giving all these things to the union over the years. As I read all this crap on these posts, everyone seems to think that ford OWES them something. Bottom line is you should go to work,do a days work and you get paid for the day. Take care of yourself and your family for the future. The company owes you nothing. This is the problem with unions, You pay them dues,they take your money,and you expect to be taken care of until you die. You should be taking care of yourselfs as the gravy train is over, and now you might need to work again.

 

OH ya, I forgot- I just got a new 07 fusion and it is my 11th Ford and by far the best built so far.. Not even close to being the cheapest,but still the best built. MADE IN MEXICO, Makes ya wonder if the UAW was involved, would the quality be the same ?

[g48150]

Unions are not THE problem, in any industry, not just Automotive.

 

We're all humans, humans tend to make mistakes, nothing in this world is perfect, well, except RJ of course.

 

Wait, did I confuse perfect with omnipotent and omniscient? I'm human, what can I say...

 

Process is process, anything manufactured has a process, most processes involving assembly work are very streamlined so as not to be too cumbersome for your average human.

 

That's where the "human factor" comes in, we tend to find the easiest way to do things, even if it means screwing something up. We can't fight human nature, that's just how we like to do things.

 

Let me ask this, if we had as much automation as we could in the factories back in the 60's and 70's, would we still have the same amount of plants in THIS country, or would they still have left?

 

Given that programming robots is a little more brain intensive than normal assembly work, would extra education or degrees have been normal parts of manufacturing careers?

 

Would the Big 3 have built a nation of degreed people if we had automated the factories 40 years ago?

[RichardJensen]

We can't fight human nature, that's just how we like to do things.

That is just about the most perfect illustration of a circular argument I have ever seen, and you missed an opportunity to get on your hobbyhorse and ride...............

 

Assembly workers are cogs in a wheel. They are, as all workers in any company, simply machines with highly variable performance parameters, output quality, and 'uptime'.

 

From a certain point of view, the stamping equipment, the guy putting on the rocker panel, and the guy designing the engine are all functionally equivalent.

 

Just as there are assembly methods that result in better or worse quality, so there are product development methods that result in better or worse quality, efficient use of worker time, or inefficient use of worker time. The money is not the issue.

 

Yes, unionized auto makers are at a cost disadvantage to the Japanese, Korean, and German car companies that have opened assembly plants here.

 

But blaming the UAW for the Big Three's shared predicament is as flawed as blaming your hammer because the dog-house didn't turn out. Sure you might've been able to build the doghouse faster if you had a power-nailer, but if you were too stupid to follow the instructions, well, you'd just end up making the same mistakes in a shorter space of time.

Edited November 12, 2006 by RichardJensen

[MTP WORKER]

That is just about the most perfect illustration of a circular argument I have ever seen, and you missed an opportunity to get on your hobbyhorse and ride...............

 

Assembly workers are cogs in a wheel. They are, as all workers in any company, simply machines with highly variable performance parameters, output quality, and 'uptime'.

 

From a certain point of view, the stamping equipment, the guy putting on the rocker panel, and the guy designing the engine are all functionally equivalent.

 

Just as there are assembly methods that result in better or worse quality, so there are product development methods that result in better or worse quality, efficient use of worker time, or inefficient use of worker time. The money is not the issue.

 

Yes, unionized auto makers are at a cost disadvantage to the Japanese, Korean, and German car companies that have opened assembly plants here.

 

But blaming the UAW for the Big Three's shared predicament is as flawed as blaming your hammer because the dog-house didn't turn out. Sure you might've been able to build the doghouse faster if you had a power-nailer, but if you were too stupid to follow the instructions, well, you'd just end up making the same mistakes in a shorter space of time.

And all HARD working UAW workers will keep on pounding with all their might! Given the right tools and working together the USA auto industry will survive and thrive. Thanks RJ :beerchug:

[jpd80]

Remember how the japanese revolutionised the productionline. Previously, with increasing demand, Ford and GM would just try and speed up the line leading to lost quality and burnt out workers. People are not robots and no one should expect them to be. It was the Japanese who introduced machines/robots to the monotonous, boring and sometimes unsafe work tasks. Workers then became more quality checkers and had a better lifestyle. I can't speak as to pay conditions, but I trust the guys on the assembly line with my family's life and I would like to know my car was constructed by people both diligent and proud of their product.

[bec5150]

The problems with any of my recent vehicles, beit Ford, GM or DCX, or Honda and Toyota, have been due to parts not being engineered properly. I didn't look at the blown balljoint on my Ranger or sticky window switch on my Honda and say "Geesh, if the assembly line worker would have just installed that 'better' it may not have failed." Even some of the most well known issues with vehicles these days have nothing to do with improper assembly.

 

Agreed?

[Hellcat_F6F]

The problems with any of my recent vehicles, beit Ford, GM or DCX, or Honda and Toyota, have been due to parts not being engineered properly. I didn't look at the blown balljoint on my Ranger or sticky window switch on my Honda and say "Geesh, if the assembly line worker would have just installed that 'better' it may not have failed." Even some of the most well known issues with vehicles these days have nothing to do with improper assembly.

 

Agreed?

 

Agreed. I DO work on the line, and hope to remain doing so. You can only install a part so well..if that part is defective, it doesn't matter. If you see a problem, all you can do is alert your supervisor or team leader, and hope they take care of it. Personally, if I see a problem, the line gets shut down until someone comes to me to find out why..I let THEM turn it back on. Most of the time, problems with parts aren't known by the operators that install them, they usually aren't obvious. For example, a customer has their CD changer stop working after a few thousand miles..it looked identical to every other part in the bin to the operator, it worked when it was tested in predelivery, so whose fault is it? It's easy to blame the assembler, but in reality it's Ford, who put the squeeze on the supplier, who in return shipped a bad part.

 

Also, regarding suppliers...where I work, MTP, we have vendors running around all over the place..people that don't work at MTP, don't even work for Ford..they work for the suppliers. They are there to literally babysit the parts, to be there on the spot when bad parts are found. Ford puts such a squeeze play on these suppliers, that they can't afford to make sure nothing bad gets out to the plant..the vendors are sent to catch the bad stuff after the fact, as it would be installed.

 

Also, to the troll who started this thread, who is so happy that his Fusion came from Mexico...newsflash, pal...most of the parts in your supposedly non-UAW built car are indeed UAW built..your driveline, most of the rest of it were all built in the U.S. by UAW labor. You asked how your car's quality would be if the UAW labor had built it...if what I just said isn't enough for you, why not visit a Mazda dealer and test drive a Mazda 6..you know, the car your Fusion is based off of? Try taking a MazdaSpeed 6 out for a spin, the one with the turbo 2.3, that'll blow your Fusion into the weeds...yep, UAW built.

[jpd80]

:slap:

 

That AWD 2.3 Turbo would be a nice option for Fusion as well. I know it has the 3.5 V6 but no IVCT, 2.3 has more low down grunt.