Keyser Soze

Now that has some potential. My personal preference is a little more understated, but put in a 6 speed manual, 300ish horsepower and a stout AWD system and I could overlook the flashier details. Keep 'em coming.

Without a doubt. And hey, just because I don't like it doesn't mean it wouldn't sell. Every single Chevy HHR I see proves that fact.

Precisely. An SVT Fusion would do a lot more to increase dealership traffic than some exotic that the average Joe knows he can never afford.

I see zero need for such a vehicle.

Still too much 300 in there for my liking. I hate the low-roof/tiny windows look and any wheel over 18" in diameter just looks silly to me. I do like the front end treatment, though.

The Challenger is a GREAT looking car, and a much better execution overall than the new Camaro IMO. It doesn't need to be as fast as the Mustang to sell. People who want a Challenger will buy one. I remember plenty of years when the Mustang was slower than the F-bodies. Ford still sold plenty of Mustangs. People buy what they want and make excuses for any real or percieved shortcomings in their vehicle of choice. Look at Harley Davidson owners for proof of that.

Sorry, but as long as GM, Ford and Chrysler continue to load their cars up with foreign made parts and fill their plants with foreign equipment I'll continue to purchase the vehicle that is the best for MY needs. How does the big three support US companies by using parts from Omron, Clarion, NGK, Bosch, Bridgestone, Kumho, etc? Let's not even get into all the Chinese, Indian and Pakistani parts (like stamped brakets) that are not even labeled. How about the Kuka and Motoman robots in the plants? How about the foreign contractors like Henkel? How was the Fusion plant in Mexico "good for America?" I could go on for days. I bought both my current Fords because they best met my total needs. I bought my Subaru for the same reason. Origin of the corporation no longer has much impact on my decision. Years ago it did, but not anymore. If the domestics change their ways, I'll not only give them priority in my car buying decisions, I'll pay a reasonable premium. When the big 3 walk the walk, I'll listen when someone talks the talk.

Anyone who thinks that size alone is the deciding factor in crash worthiness should watch this: Volvo 940 vs. Little Renault POS I'm not saying I would like to drive the awful little Renault, but there is something to be said for state-of-the-art safety design. The Carver is a pretty interesting vehicle and probably great fun to drive. No, I wouldn't want to collide with a large SUV (or even another Carver) in one. I also wouldn't want to test any of my cars against a Peterbuilt. Any buyer has to weigh the risks against the rewards. I doubt the Carver will find too many buyers in the US just because it's too much of a compromise. I ride motocycles and would probably prefer to be in the elements and up higher than reclined in a cocoon. The visceral sensations of motorcycling would likely be dulled to much for me. I suspect that econobox car buyers would find this vehicle to be way too frightening (the same way they view motorcycles) and low to be comfortable with it. Can you picture some Corolla driver's face the first time they leaned into a curve? Hopefully he/she would have a clean pair of undies to change into. Finally, there is the issue of the price. I didn't notice anything about that but I've got a strange feeling you'll be able to buy a fully loaded Fusion for much less than one of these. Probably could also get a Ducati 1098S AND a new Corolla for the same money. There is an excruciatingly small market for products like these. Ford is no more losing a sale to one of these that they would to a Waverunner or a motorcycle. I still think it's pretty cool.

This increasing overseas outsourcing is a big hot button for me. If the auto makers themselves do not support American industry, they sure as hell better not wave the American flag at me when I'm car shopping. I'll buy the product that best meets my needs, just as they do.

Thanks for the replys. I'm going to take a look at the car this weekend since the dealer tells me my Concorde MAY have a bent valve. Not worth the repair to me. Is there an easy way to tell if the rear is limited slip? Do they still put the metal tag on the diff cover?

Thanks for the responses. Already did that, but I have found these types of services to be pretty far off the mark. Case in point. I bought my Chrysler for about $3K less than what KBB said it was worth at the time. I'm really hoping that someone here has some recent buying experience and can tell me where I should be.

Hi all: It looks like my '00 Chrysler may be done for and I've decided to look for a used panther to replace it. I drive between 30 and 35K miles a year, so safety durability and comfort are key concerns. I think the panther has these all well covered. I've seen an '02 CV LX Sport for sale locally by a private owner. It is exactly what I want, right down to the color. It has about 30K miles and seems to be in good shape. I haven't driven it yet since I don't want to jerk the seller around if I find out the Chrysler is not dead. Are there any specific problems to look for? What would be a real market price for such a car? What would a dealer likely offer on a trade for it? Can I really expect to get over 20MPG in mixed driving with this car? Was the valve seal issue fixed by '02? What do you say, Panther Mafia? I appreciate your input.

Lost of good points coming out here. These cars sell for over list because that's what the market will bear. Ford can't set the market clearing price any more than the dealer can. They try to price the car competitively, but the auto buying public can be very fickle. I'm in full agreement with goinbroke's take on this. Perhaps Ford has left money on the table, but the initial demand is not likely to be sustainable. This is the reason the car can't be priced at the initial demand level. As demand begins to soften, value drops and Ford gets another black eye for discounting a high profile vehicle. Even if Ford could force the dealer to seel the car at list (they can't legally), this does not change the market value of the car. Many, if not most of these cars would be re-sold immediately by profiteers who saw a quick buck. Look at what happened with the PS3 and Wii. Tarket and Best Buy sold these items for much less that the initial market value and essentially passed the extra profit on to individuals. Should a Ford dealer do that? SOMEONE is going to make the extra money. Wouldn't you rather it be the dealer who provides value to Ford by sharing in promotional efforts, holding inventory and servicing vehicles at a reduced warranty rate than some opportunistic jackoff that dissapears after the car is sold? You have to understand that the more profitable a dealer is, the better equipped he is to satisfy the customer both during and after the sale. I have never purchased a car from the lowest priced dealer I could find. I doubt I ever will. If the dealer can pick up an extra $20,000 (or more) on the sale of a Shelby, he can more easily afford to make an out of warranty service adjustment on my Sable. I'm sure that is a lot more important to most buyers than whether or not they have to pay extra for a car they had no intention to purchase in the first place.

I doubt that very many customers at an average Ford store would ever even know about this situation. How many serious buyers are there for this car anyway? Why would I care if the dealer marks up a car I have no intention of buying? Toyota dealers put big time markups on the last of the turbo Supras and that doesn't seem to have cooled off Camry and Corolla sales any. The early S2000's had AMV stickers and yet Accords and Civics still sell strongly. Chevy dealers have done it for years with Corvettes like the ZR-1 and the Z06. Didn't affect my decision to get a Trailblazer in'03. The "new" Beetle went for thousands over list when it first arrived. Even the lowly PT Cruiser was marked up over list in the beginning. I see this situation in a completely different light. Every fool who forks over thousands above list for some toy is helping to subsidize my next car purchase. If the dealer can get a little fat on specialty cars, he can afford to let whatever "normal" car I'm interested in go a little cheaper. Simple math. I think some of you guys are blowing this out of proportion. Dealers cost themselves (and the manufacturer) a lot more business in the service department that they ever will with additional markup. I've never had a single person tell me to steer clear of a particular dealership because some new, limited model had a supplemental sticker on it. I can't remember how many have cursed a blue streak when they felt they got screwed during a repair.

Wonder why they chose a Z71 equipped Chevy when the F150 was not an FX4? Might not have made a huge difference, but it would have been useful to see a more apples to apples comparison.