SysEng

See it in action? LOL, I'll tell you what the 6.7L PSD will be like in action. It'll blow the doors off anything out there right off the lot :shades: Problem, is a few years later and some miles under the belt, how happy are you going to be paying a premium for an engine with a cracked manifold? Or blown heads? And while you might argue that it will not happen often, past experience says it WILL happen often enough to tarnish the PSD name. I don't see that kind of problem iwth the 4.4L. Hell, I figured with the 4.4L as a template Ford couldn't possibly go wrong with the 6.7L ... until I saw the specs...

Pump up the turbo, and you can get any number you want OTOH, that 4.4L in front of a 6R140 in the F350 would be a very nice option. Thought I think keeping it around 250HP and 525#T is probably enough for the 4.4 to keep it alive for a few miles, years and better MPG. Might even be a good public relations move... a new smaller diesel option with more MPG and better emissions :shades: ... should be a win win for everyone. And of course it gives Ford an out on the 6.7... if its needed...

Well, we shall see. I read that 6R140 to be a very nice box. You practically get no advantage using a manual over this gearbox. :shades: I'd call that pretty significant. Putting the 6R140 behind the 6.2 gas engine is going to be very very nice. :happy feet: In fact, that tranny is probably a million mile box provided input torque is less than about 560#T... very nice indeed. As for the 6.7L diesel... well, that's so over the top, we'll just have to see.

NOBODY IS BEATING ANYTHING HERE! Ford has said new model coming up. :reading: We say great! Ford says it'll be better than the "panthers" ! We say Great! :shades: We also say, that to be better than the "panthers" its going to have to use some old school techniques ( little things like SIZE... as in bigger, and a full frame ). Some people here think a Taurus fits that description ... and I say good luck with that one... I think that summarizes the thread for you. Now lets wait and see what Ford actually does.

Why Richard, fancy meeting you here... oh, I forgot this is where I usually find you... How you been doing? Oh, and must disagree. Even the dumbest blond knows an F350 trumps a Tacoma any day. H ll, dumb blondes are more sensitive than anyone to guys who know which end is up... :stats: And if Ford's sales execs are reading this stuff, they just might be getting the idea that there might be a few places where they might be dumber than some blonds right now...

Look real close at the avatar oh ye of the eagle eyes. That would be new, :happy feet: and I buy all my cars "new" from Ford ( er... Mercury in this case ). :shades:

It was also a foot longer and a few inches wider than the current "panthers"... Size Matters! Its the guys who think a welfare wagon the size of D3 can be made tougher than these old school machines that make me chuckle. Naturally, for e.g. Volvo must clearly be idots 'cuz nobody believes one of those is tougher than a "panther". OTOH they are about as well designed and safe as a car that size gets. Just not as tough or as safe as the larger old school machines are... thats all. But hey, within the next 3 months we'll see what Ford has in mind. Hope they do better than "scorpion". OTOH, the 6.2L looks like a winner... :reading:

Probably. OTOH, they are the customers people watch to get an idea of whether your product is worth looking at. Those old AeroStars may have had a differential problem... maybe... and that was about it. Not bad considering everyone used them as off road vehicles and boat haulers...

'Cuz I'm that strange species known as "the customer"... you know, the guy who actually puts the money on the table? And this "customer" likes solidly designed reliable Ford products... if at all possible ... and preferably right out of the box. ...not after several years, lost sales, ticked off customers and multiple redesigns to finally do it the way I asked for in the first place.

Now THIS is a good point. If you want to do an all new any kind of platform at Ford, a modern flex plant friendly design would be a good idea.

Hey Dude, the avatar on my post ain't no joke. Its a Ford product as were its predecessors for the last 20+ years! I was in fact one of the first to suggest ( many years ago on this board ) that there was every reason ( based on the very good fundamentals of the mod motor ) to suggest that Ford could easily design a diesel in house. Mind you, nobody I know would spit on a CAT in the SuperDuty. Face facts folks. Instead of pioneering a new solution, and sticking to its legacy of solid design, they have elected to put composites where they don't belong ( under high pressure and thermal shock? ... on a diesel? ...that is expected to hold up for years and miles? ) and aluminum heads :huh: :huh: where they have clearly demonstrated that somebody at Ford clearly knows better... the guy who designed the 4.4 diesel ... maybe??? Face it, all the engineering skill in the world simply will not trump physics.

No, I said that it couldn't be a D3 and do what Ford says. Ford already does it with the "panthers" and they haven't said what the new platform will be... so I will take them at their word... and assume based on well established engineering criteria and history that it will have a full length frame... Well, D3 is unibody, as is literally every car ( note I said "car" ) on the road today EXCEPT the "panthers". I am pretty sure Chrysler isn't completely stupid here ( relative to anyone else in Detroit... or Stuttgart where that platform was hatched... ) , and their unibody is pretty close to the state of the art. Point is, that the "state of the art" in unibodies is significantly behind what a 30 year old BOF design can do... and THATS a FACT! I didn't invent it. It is physically impossible to bend any part of a unibody and not damage the structural integrity of the vehicle. OTOH, with a CVPI, in a PIT maneuver against a bigger truck ( AND I HAVE SEEN IT DONE! ) bending sheet metal means nothing to the chassis because its fixed to the frame... BTW, I have also seen CVPIs bring city buses to a stop... trust me, nobody puts stock in a 30 year old anything without reason... let alone a car design. If it didn't perform better than the rest it would have been scrap in a flash.

Unless, the spec sheets and photos lie, its a me too DuraMAx with some really not to sharp deficiencies. While I'm fine with dumping NaviStar, this is a 1/2million mile diesel??? We shall see... ...or at least the early adopters will. :shades: When I compare this attempt against Ford's 4.4 diesel V8, I have to wonder if its the same company... I KNOW Ford Can Do Better because they have. This is just not up to Ford standards. And don't get your shorts in a knot. It doesn't take that much to replace a plastic manifold with an aluminum one, but it may be a bit of a job to put CGI in those heads instead of aluminum.

Good point. If it was a body kit, it was some body builder. Looks exactly like an Excursion.

D3 Right, I'll leave you to do a Pit maneuver against a truck with a D3... ...right after you cross 6 lanes of traffic jump the median and don't lose the entire bottom of your D3 in the process... Even the none car people tend to wonder about a platform that weighs more than the current "panther" and is hauled around by a V6. And here we have "car guys" telling us it makes sense. :huh:

Error Free? Sorry, but Ford starts out pretty good by saying "if you want it done right you gotta do it yourself". Hey I'm WITh THAT... good stuff...! And THEN... 1) They put an aluminum head... on a diesel engine :do what: 2) They put a plastic manifold... on a diesel engine(!) :fan: 3) They clean sheet a design with the same displacement as FIAT/Chrysler that looks like a updated DuraMax... . Sorry, but what is this??? Ford looking to follow GMC into bankruptcy ? Up until now neither Ford OR their customers would even look at such an idiotic proposition. What gives here? A me too DuraMax(?) after 30 years? Ever heard about the crossover failure on 4.6L manifolds? What is it with these guys? If the 6.7 "scorpion" is such a hot idea, why does it look like a slightly stroked DuraMax? And why wouldn't the customer buy something with a 7 year track record over this essentially "me to" "scorpion"? Looks like Ford wants to get stung and named it accordingly... :rolleyes: But hey, I'm merely looking at it from a customer's point of view. Who ever listens to the customer when they can ape whatever GMC does? :titanic:

Appears to be general availability... not just military only. Might be a screwup, since front end doesn't look like the current superduty f/e. Looks kind '05ish to me.

Am I missing something here? I thought the Mustang got 30MPG today with a 4.6L V8... :shades:

Does anyone know if it is still possible to special order the Ford Excursion? Today, I saw a 2009 order guide for armored vehicles, and sure enough they had an Excursion pictured there. Now I haven't seen the Excursion mentioned anywhere for several years now. So I ask... special orders are possible???

Interesting quote from Ford... The only way their going to exceed the safety, Reliability and Economy of the CVPI, is with another "panther" type platform. Anything else is just blowing smoke up your :blush: Not to say an all new full frame chassis wouldn't be welcome. Just that it would have to be exactly that AND possibly a larger vehicle...to exceed CVPI performance. Now let's see... ad new 6.2L V8 and 6R140 tranny... and THAT will have everyone sitting up and paying attention. :bowdown: Otherwise, we have Fiat/Chrysler saying they'll build a new RWD sedan ( built in Italy ) off of the Chrysler 300 chassis. You know someone is making a real stupid move when FIAT feels they can horn in on your market... As for moving from STAP... maybe... maybe not. If I was moving production out of STAP, I'd be looking at Mexico, not Michigan...

Well, I don't see any problem with that position. :shades: Fact is, Ford would still make a profit at any of the mentioned "price points", AND would still be in business. :beerchug: Trick question; Which Detroit auto company still makes an "American Car"? and is there a reason why its the only one not to go bankrupt? Hmmm... could it be that they can actually make a GMQ ( or a TownCar ) and sell it for 50% off... and STILL make a profit? Which other car do you think you could do that with?

You just might be surprised about that. I believe the skidpad number for a Mustang was .84 and the skidpad number for a stock MGM is .81 ... so slide of before a Mustang... yes! "long before"? Not likely. LOL, I'll see what I can do OTOH, If I drive aggressively... :boring: I hear you guys can't buy a "panther" in Canada these days. You ( and your management ) want to worry about something, that kind of marketing might be a place to start. And tell'em ( your there after all ) to update the platform as per the "panther mafia" wish list. Y'all will have a lot less to worry about then... ... honest...

Holy , if a "panther" can't pass a new rollover regulation, I doubt any car on earth can! Its only the safest bit of rolling stock on the freaking planet! Whoever did the driving is not "panther qualified" so to speak. I saw a video of a timed circuit run of a pre 2002 CVPI against a high end "euro car". The "panther" pitched and rolled and burned the rubber and you name it in the most embarrassing way. It was pretty alarming to watch... and I drive one every day :shades: . The "panther" was a slug compared to a ballerina in that test ... ... except, that the "panther" did better time by a wide margin and stayed on the course :huh: ... the euro car flipped out... Of course, the driver was a police driving instructor who happened to be a "panther" fan who owned and drove daily. There is an experience factor in pushing these things around. Certainly, I can't run 'em like that, and I've been driving them as a daily driver for over 20 years. OTOH, Miata/ Evo/ 911 ??? Perhaps they were professional drivers, because the ones I see around here can't seem to get 'outta my F(n) way.

Right... tell that one to the "panther mafia"... And yeah, its a "bailout". Has to be when you mishandle profit centers and dump cash into ... ummm... D3

Agreed, I can make my MGM tilt and swivel in pretty wild ways. However, the presence of "wallowing" isn't exactly the definition of "handling" either. Let me be a bit more precise... at legal speeds ( including 75MPH on the freeway ) my MGM will keep its wheels exactly where any other car including MOST models of the Mustang ( possibly including your own.GT ) puts 'em. Allowing for the fact the MGM is a bigger and wider car than any other. Now you may consider the "wallow" to be uncomfortable, and many a welfare wagon baby do, but thats a matter of "ride quality" and preference... NOT handling. And those who want to give your GT a run for its money have BOMBed their "panthers"... (B.O.M.B. = Better Of Modified Baby ) ... and I gather they are much tighter than any production vehicle. Thats the nice thing about the "panther" platform. You can do much more with it, than the nimrods in Fords management can conceive of... ( but it can't go to Congress looking for a handout ).