SysEng

Problem, is that we "panther" types don't actually trust Ford to get it right. And since we depend on these cars in a very real way, we don't want to see a "replacement". When you ( for e.g. ) suggest a new "global RWD replacement" :rolleyes: , we simply tune you out, because that car would be D3 ... great for making a Volvo S80, but no business in an American style car... let alone a full size one Besides, other than restyling there are no really pressing issues on these cars. So why would we or Ford bother? I can roll up all the updates the "panthers" SHOULD have in one post; 1) Update Exterior Styling 2) Update Interior Styling ( modern glass cockpit and add GPS ) 3) Update rear frame ( they already did the front frame just fine ) for standard towing capability and IRS 4) Update engine & tranny to DOHC4V4.6L and 6R80 tranny Thats pretty much it. All pretty much from the existing parts bin. Don't buy the rubbish about out of date. Any Mustang driver will tell you a "panther" pretty much drives and handles like a 'stang at legal speeds. Its when you want to go beyond that that you want a 'stang... or a BOMBed "panther" :shades:

Did I miss something? When did Ford announce a diesel "panther" :reading: As for P61...

FALSE ADVERTISING! With all the ninny's obstructing traffic trying to "save gas", Me and my GMQ are the only thing that does the zipping around :shades: If these clowns ever got any numeracy skills they'd realize that a steady speed in the 45-50MPH range is about the only thing that does anything for MPG.

Duh, maybe because "Toyoduh"'s inventory of "errors" are all correctable and they have the overall idea down right? Duh And those "ideas" can translate directly into trucks... and cars... that could beat the outta the competition? And because they wil keep working at it 'til they get it right. Their minivan is a perfect example. Right off the wall dumb at first, but premium product today... ...meanwhile Ford's minivan... Duh, dey don't got one... ...oh right their trying to resuscitate D3

Agreed. However, even though the Tundra has a few oddities in its profile... a full length full boxed frame would be nice ... the point is that Ford is effectively undercutting its customers exactly at the point where you get Toyota undercutting Ford. Reality is you can get that top line drive train in a Tundra at a discount... against for e.g. Ford... And that drive train really is a huge improvement. The 5.7 has a few basic improvements for Toyota ( like they use a chain instead of a rubber band for the cams ) and one really significant change for the industry... they have "Toyota Direct Injection"... which means a high compression V8 can burn regular gas... Unfortunately, Ford's near abominable neglect of their flagship cars has extended into their truck line as well. Imagine a Lexus with that 5.7V8 and 6 speed tranny... especially if it were say TownCar sized... :bowdown:

:huh: Really NOT a Clue EH? How do you think Ford has been making a profit on that line for the last 30 years? Right! Most of the parts come out of a parts bin for the E-vans and F-series. In fact as long as they continue to do that they'll continue making a profit even if they sell the damned things for $15K. You guys all need to get a clue. Fleet managers and most private "panther" customers have run their numbers multiple times over the last 20+ years. On a pure price/performance and value for the money basis the "panthers" win every time. Trust me, when that changes I Personally will let you know. And I won't even start on the safety issue. How anyone thinks that 9 feet of steel between you and your backside is less safe in the real world than something less... :rolleyes:

:reading: You know, this is almost NOT news. Provided Ford is still in business next year, let alone 2011, I expect the "panthers" to still be around. The only real news here might be that the "panthers" will not be restyled for another 4 years... and I guess that ain't exactly news either :shades: :rolleyes: Now I wonder if Ford will do themselves another favor and put the 09 F150 drivetrain ( 4.6LV8/3V and 6R80 tranny ) into the "panthers". At least that way, they can reduce their parts count and take advantage of economies of scale??? But, then, we complain about Ford's performance in the "panther" line. Look at how pitiful their F150 effort is. Ford will "upgrade" the '09 F150 to a SOHC3V engine where Toyota's Tundra has a very nice 5.7LV8/DOHC/4V/VVT/TDI package AND a 6 speed tranny. This is Ford undercutting their customers while the competition undercuts Ford... What more can we say...

Nick: Old Boy... :shades: You Do?!? Sheesh I haven't been here in a few months and you still don't get it. Notice D3 is headed out the door as predicted by yours truly... how many years ago? Meanwhile, I seriously doubt you have a clue about the boulevard ride. If you did you'd know the current "panthers" fear no one in the handling dept, either ...except the Mustang and the 'vette... just barely... The key problem with D3 is that it doesn't appeal to the traditional Taurus buyer who wants a Camry killer thats just as economical but bigger, and its a roaring joke to the "panther mafia". And I should know, since I'm the Dean of the "panther mafia" AND we have Taurii in the family... approved by yours truly... and NONE of them are ever going to be that bloated gas hog D3 cr p.

I'm not in the least bit surprised that as mentioned, Ford ( and Detroit's ) sales fell off a cliff. What I find interesting is the Townie getting hit like that in one month. Smells like savvy buyers waiting for Ford to lower the price... ... or go bankrupt... ...and if bankrupt, there will be no Ford ( or GMC or Chryco ) to turn to for warranty service or parts. We "panther" customers are after all, a very finicky and careful breed after all. Now if Ford folded, saving STAP is easy. We hive off the platform to a separate company that want to make money instead of playing politics.

I think your right on the Sequoia. I think the Tundra may make 2009 in the Truck category. Toyota seems to be "getting the picture" in the full size truck range. They need to iron out a few issues between now and then. Tundra's key problem is that its very much a "domestic" truck and not a "commercial" vehicle. The key factor is the engine ( all Toy engines actually ) that run too high a compression to develop full power with 87octane. Bluntly stated the Toy 5.7 beats the cr p out of everything, on just about every variable. But while 400#T is a good commercial seller, the 381HP is NOT NEEDED, and slightly lower compression would proabably drop it into a more "commercial duty" 325HP range.

WOW, looked at that web site. Looking at their car offerings, I'd say the only thing missing is the URL to; Your Local Lexus/Toyota dealer! At least, they still have sense to sell trucks up in Canada... for now...

Ditto on that. Definitely a TOWN CAR is the only way to go. And it wouldn't sit in the driveway either. My other choice would be a F450 crew/drw. Very hard to beat either of these machines. :shades:

Word is that Ford is ramping up production of a 6R75 and 6R80 tranny at Livonia. While either one would work in a Mustang, I think Ford should just standardize on the 6R80 and 4V4.6V8 as a single "power module". More bang for the buck for Ford ... and the customer.

BrickHouse Swagger ! THATS IT! I've been looking for a term to describe the feel of the new GMQ. And that sir is it! Congratulations :shades:

Sounds about right to me. OTOH; They said; Engine noise-- true. It is a bit noiser than it should be seat comfort-- true, late '80's seats were better... as for the competition... fugettabout it ride-- HUH!??? What were they smoking? fuel economy-- true f.e. is a touch lower than the previous GMQ. Don't know why IIHS side-crash result without side air bags-- I have airbags... ESC-- false ABS and ETC work just fine... and "panthers" typically do NOT roll... no curtain air bags -- again I have side airbags... Hilarious that they quote the GMQ as a lousy car, and simultaneously note that other publications rate it a top pick...

Sensor in the differential. And S/W adjustment in the computer. Been that way for quite a while now with Fords.

Thank You for that. And actually that is welcome news. Now bring on DOHC and the 6R80 tranny...

Good idea, but make that heated and cooled cloth seats. And ditto to the steering wheel. Probably the only 2 things Ford could have learned from buying Volvo. :rolleyes:

Bingo, we got a live one. :happy feet: Nice to see someone gets it. The real issue, can be summarised quite simply. What does anyone in Detroit make that isn't in direct competition ( if not outright upstaged ) by one or more import brands? At GMC, that was trucks and SUVs. A Chapter stunt would have to spin off practically every division. GMC probably can't survive as a single entity.

Dunno Richard. I'd be pretty concerned about what Ford uses for a tranny behind the current 5.4 let alone one that bangs out 400#T. Unless Ford has a 6R110 lying in wait behind curtain #2, I wouldn't buy in there. Right now, there are exactly two (2) engine/tranny combos for Ford trucks that get the SysEng stamp of approval. They are 4.6 with 4R75 and 6.8 with 5R110. AFAIK, the current 6R is a 6R75... NOT a 6R110... and therefore really not balls enough for a Ford Truck with anything bigger than a Ford 4.6L motor. The rest "may" be OK, but you won't see me buying one. PS- The '08 E-Series Vans with the 6.4PSD and 5R110 tranny also get the SysEng stamp of approval, only because Ford derated the PSD to 235HP and 440#T... THAT has to be another million mile package!

Totally agree! It needs to be replaced with a much smaller 4banger that blows up as soon as you start it. Perhaps a Model T? Errr... nix that they also lasted too long. Any vehicle that doesn't blow a tranny before year 1 or 10K miles is just bad for sales. ...RRRIIIIGGGHHHTTT...

Thats how it was... I'm telling you how it is today. The new ( this year ) cars have outstanding handling characteristic that I have never seen in this class of car. Its very solid, predictable and pretty responsive ( within the limit of a 224HP engine ). There is a very close coupled steel on steel quality about the current models that is almost harsh. I guess I agree with the poster who said he drives a "panther" EXACTLY the way he drives a Mustang Cobra. The current "panthers" have a "like on rails" quality about them that has never been seen on this type of car. And I've been driving 'em for 20 years. Of course if all you've ever driven was a "welfare wagon", your not going to sit down in a "panther" and get maximum results. Most of the guys I know in that league just freeze up at the thought of trying to handle the "monster" to ever get anything much out of one. And, I have seen timed tests conducted by "panther" drivers a good deal better than me . These guys easily cream a lot of high end sports cars... and I am not kidding you here. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't witnessed it myself. Particularly in handling, scores in favor of the "panthers" was several seconds ( NOT fractions of a second ). Acceleration was predictably not as good, but braking was comparable :huh: and within inches... not feet. This ain't my grand daddies Merc, and it sure as hell will beat your best sports car on any measure except acceleration. Gotta agree with the guy who said if Ford built all their cars like they build the "panthers" they'd be number one. Have to add, that Ford has done an outstandign job turning what was a barge into something like a fighter plane. If your a customer for one of these cars, they are generally OK.

WOW, are you out of a job yet? I continue to marvel at how that kind of logic ( and factual errors ) can even stay employed in this country... hell, even in government! A basic fact. Your going to get into an accident sooner or later. Its basically unavoidable the way thing are going on our roads these days. In a "panther" you walk away... in D3 ( otherwise known as Dud #3 ) in the real world forget about it. Especially if your hit by something bigger than a "panther". As for ride and handling :huh: ??? The "panthers" have been the definition of ride quality for over 20 years... and still are. And in case you missed it, the current model "panthers" can cream many a current sports car in the handling dept. For "panther" fans who can't read between the lines... guess what? Ford has indicated they will continue to make the "panthers" as long as theres demand. And Mark Fields ( and he should know ) has indicated they will have a new and similar TC "if there is demand". Demand is still there ( and we know damned well it will still be there ) in what is obviously a down market for the industry... and Fields has let the cat out of the bag. They ARE working on a new ( but similar ) "panther"!!! Of course, Ford wouldn't say this out loud in an environment encumbered by ecofreaks selling global warming while it snows in Los Angeles :huh: and politicians pandering to EPA numbers that border on hallucinatory.

Whats surprsing is that a third party hasn't come out with this stuff for the custom market. If they can do weird landau roofs at dealerships on current "panthers" I'm pretty sure light modules, grilles and maybe even hood/deck lids could be sold as well.

I believe there are such animals. Check out www.crownvic.net ... they are likely to have someone somewhere