kevinb120

With DCX's recent hits in design, I can't fathom the Compass getting a 'go' in any way shape or form. Finally something a Kia Sportage or ridgeline owner can make fun of for styling. Jeeze, just scrolling up I had to edit/ad... WTF?

Passat? At 38k for a nice one, no one is going to buy it. Not to mention durability-or lack of it.... I thought it was quite ironic in the 60's that the peace loving hippies embraced a car company created by Hitler.

I wonder how the Chineese cars rate.... :blink: so I shouldn't smoke in my car?

Well, let me tell you from someone who has sold mostly Ford, but has also sold Kia, Subaru, Acura, and Toyota(and back to stay at Ford thank you). The devil's in the details is a great term to describe just about any import in the meat of the industry($15-$35k cars). One of the common missunderstandings and to some extent in a Ford vs Kia or even Toyota debate is in the details Americans choose to see. Ford to a fault has been overbuilding vehicle platforms starting around the time of the 2002 Explorer and newer generation vehicles. If you REALLY look at a Kia, or even a stalwart like the Camry, there is MUCH less material used to build the vehicle structure and suspension. Asian import companies have learned long ago if you make a smooth motor and make plastic parts look good, Americans will eat it up. I also have sold and been exposed to hundreds of used cars from 1-5 years old from all manufacturers and being the sponge I am I go through anything interesting, like 2004 accords, jettas, camrys, hyundai's, etc-including crawling under them with techs if I catch them under the lift. All though its spouted like gospel almost robotically 'they run forever'when you bring up any japanese product, if you spend time in a shop that reconditions used autos and sells the 'competition' new, there are JUST as many issues with ANY brand's product and there is no difference in the level's of repairs, shop bays per units sold, and customer complaints. The Kia's are extremely lightly built cars, so I will stick comparing to the likes of an Altima or Camry. Camry is made of such thin metal everywhere its obsurd. Plastic bumper covers and suspension components are also extremely light. They use multi-piece side stampings(cheap), doors till have the 1980's style 'tack on' window frames(cheap), thin supports(if any) to bolt the seats low straight to the floor pan(cheap), outdated bow trunk hinges(cheap), no multi-thickness metal sheets(cheap), and the smallest fasteners possible everywhere. If you do not readilly SEE it, its the CHEAPEST POSSIBLE WAY TO BUILD IT. There are no hydromount bushings, no aluminum components, no extra bracing anywhere. To increase the subframe strength, nearly all japanese cars have a huge outdated bulkhead behind the rear seat, with no pass through, just to make the car strong enough. FORD on the other hand, OVER builds the vehicle's shell, hardware, attatchment points, suspension components, motor mounts, hinge and pillar metals, door hinges, etc. They overengineer to a fault in a lot of cases. Where they tend to cut corners is the exact opposite of Japanese cars, they cut it in the PLASTICS. To get to price points, the beancounters axe power seat features, soft materials, etc. Toyotas are only built to just PASS the exact crash tests, and its short cuts everywhere else. Most accidents are not that controlled, and thats why Civics in crashes in the real world turn into shreaded wheat on the side of the road. Toyota uses EXTENSIVE platform sharing, they really only make 3 engines, 3 steering wheels, all the switchgear is shared through the line(some of it over 10 years old, etc. Everything is based off of roughly 3 platforms. The money Ford 'wastes' on having 12 steering wheels could pay for all the soft plastic you could want. If they took LESS effort in the cars 'mettle' and more on the plastic and cheap gimmick electronics like luminecent gauges, they would probably sell more cars. This has hindered the perception for years. A strange phenomenom I do see is complaints about 'hard' dashboards in comparo tests against other vehicles that actually have the SAME thing. I saw a highlander/Freestyle comparo that was like this(ammong other things). HELLO, MCFLY, EVERY dashboard and console surface in a highlander is ROCK HARD PLASTIC, although they even SAY its soft!? go figure. Civic dash, corolla dash, kia spectra dash, ROCK HARD. No complaints from any journalist, Focus test OH MY GOD ITS SO CHEAP!!!. ALthough typically the plastics are thicker and wear better in the long run then toyota's. If you see most 3-5 year old import cars are pocked with door dings from thin metal, puckered and missshaped bumpers from thin plastic, peeling dyes, swirled and 'dry' paint from being thin, worn steering wheels, creaky buttons, faded upholstries, etc. I do not understand where this 'reliability' is. Even at a Toyota store, a 'mint' solara with low mileage certified on our lot looks hard worn and tired if you look closely at it, almost as if everything is getting thinner as it gets older. Yet you would think god shits every toyota out personally. If you climb over a 4 year old import(or even one year old) and start to tug and flex plastic components in the interior, forceably compress seat surfaces, and look in all the cracks at the details, cheapness is only a close inspection away. Even comparing something like the F150 to a Titan is almost laughable. The rear end on a titan is smaller then a ranger's, the frame is half the size, they 'frame' the front using the fenders like a Chevy with no substructure, there is less then 1/3 the welds in the frame-the vehicle weighs 700lbs LESS then the nearly exact same size Ford. The rivited(YES RIVITED) open frame of a Tundra is one of the funniest things you will ever see when its not attatched to the body(with little tiny screws and bolts) on a warehouse floor. Its all window dressing. Yet they continuously dodge bad reputations in CR and other rags, its almost as if they have thier empolyees all send in good surveys themselves. For every 200,000 mile camry story I have a 300,000 mile Taurus one, and plenty of F-series that carried more then the total a (never worked anyway)Tundra is capeable of day in day out well over the 100k mark. And at the dealership level, you would think that most of our 90k import trades that are 'roached' and in such abysmal shape that they would look 'new' by thier reputation. The average Japanese maker has Americans pegged on doing the bare minimums to sell, while a lot of the domestics try too hard to build true 'value' nobody seems to care about. On a japanese car, if you can reach it from the drivers seat they spend money on it, other then that, build it as cheap as you possibly can. Even a Focus door is nearly double the thickness of a Sequoias. Back to Kia's, Subaru's looked like 60's cadillacs next to them for build strength. Oh and btw, the Fusion is lower MSRP then the Hyundai. For nearly 5000 more then an SEL you can get a 4 corner mcpherson strut marshmalow camry. If you ever want to come by and see me at the dealer to go over a few used cars, it will REALLY open your eyes with a proper walk-around critique. You need to see the window frame flex/b pillar twist, thumb tip body press, and spot the spot weld show I can demonstrate on any asian import sedan. Korean cars make for the biggest show. I don't think anyone has any idea how incredibly MASSIVE the shotgun braces, side beams, door frames, b pillars, roof reinforcement, under-seat beam, strut tower support, motor mounts, control arms, subframe, and front motor support frame is on a 500. I guarantee it has more metal then an entire avalon's unit body with all panels and doors hung. Its 30% stronger then the S80 and starts at 21k.

So let me get this straight, a 10 year old spare tire blows and a woman not wearing a belt is able to sue a company? Something tells me there is an appeal comming. Friggin showoff judges are the worst.

Well they also completely went over the vehicle with extensive sound-deadening, the refreshed facias, an all new AWD system, the availability of FWD at and 4x4 4cyl with the D23, the safety canopy, etc. I think when production on the D35 gets up to speed we will see a reworked Escape, probably 08. The sales figures on the Liberty do not state rental sales. A lot of times that GM shows a major 'sales' increase on a model, its because they sold vastly more rentals that year. The Colorado pickup is great example, as the vast majority are not retail units at all, you're lucky to ever see one without the little green "E" on the tailgate.