7Mary3

Does that thing use a Dynacorn body? $150K is awfully steep, you can buy a lot of nice restored Broncos for that.

Very cool! Thanks for posting that. Ford, GM, and Chrysler were all working towards gas turbine truck engines in the late 60's.

I think H561 might either be the current F-650/750, or it was an aborted update to the Blue Diamond medium duty trucks. I say this because I found a couple of engineering 'help wanted' job postings for postions in Navistar to work on H561. Specifically, they were looking for body engineers to integrate H561's body systems with those of P473, which is the 2011-up Super Duty F-250-550. Amazing what you can find out reading the Michigan want ads! http://www.simplyhired.com/job-id/c2kpqbfnqf/body-engineer-jobs/ You have to wonder if the decision to relocate the mediums to Avon Lake was somewhat 'last minute', seeing as they were looking to hire for Blue Diamond only a few months ago. Not sure on the next gen. medium duty launch date. I figure sometime in 2014, after the bulk of the E series is discontinued.

Does anyone know what the platform code for the next generation medium duty is? If the truck is coming in 2014, I would think the program has been started by now.

Did GM no good at all. From 1997 to 2009, GM was the only manufacturer of gas engined class 6 and 7 trucks. Yes, the economics of gas engines as compared to diesels has changed in the last couple of years, but is it enough? All the major medium duty manufacturers currently offer CNG/LNG engine options.

I don't think that's the answer. GM dropped their mediums back in 2009, and it would seem that the bulk of their sales (20,000 or so units) were picked up by Freightliner and International. Blue Diamond will be lucky to break 10,000 units this model year. And of course that would assume GM isn't planning on reentering the medium duty market. While I am glad to see Ford planning to produce medium duty trucks again, I am having a hard time seeing how they will be successful at it, assuming they will indeed be a full line medium manufacturer again. Freightliner, Navistar (International) and PACCAR (Peterbilt and Kenworth) are fierce competitors that produce superb products that can be configured to meet any medium duty truck vocation. Is Ford willing to play at that level? If so, can they be profitable at it? Ford wasn't the last time they were in it. From 2003 to 2009, GM actually gave it a pretty good shot. Their trucks were overbuilt and too expensive for class 4 and 5, but they pretty much nailed class 6 through baby 8. And still, even with increasing market share profits eluded them. So, it will be interesting to see what exactly Ford is planning to do here. Will it be a full line of mediums, a limited line of specialized medium duties for specific markets, or is this a 'pie-in-the-sky' proposal thrown out to appease a particular UAW local during contract negotiations (Avon Lake was promised a new product during the last contract and it didn't happen)? My guess is the second answer. Stay tuned.............

Here's a bit more, right from Mark Fields: http://www.worktruckonline.com/News/Story/2011/10/Ford-to-Bring-F-650-and-F-750-Production-to-U-S.aspx Notice he says "next generation medium duty"..........

I am not so sure. It may go a bit beyond 'intellectual property', in that the current Blue Diamond products are largely built out of Navistar parts, except for the cab. Compare a new F-650 to a International Durastar (4400) and you will see the trucks share many International manufactured parts. I can't see the current 650 and 750 continuing without Navistar support. I would also think if the 'new' 650 and 750 were in fact going to be close to the current trucks, Ford would have moved their production to KTP instead of Avon Lake. This all leeds me to believe at this point the 'Avon Lake' medium duty trucks will be similar to the GMC Topkick 5500, as Richard Jensen stated in his post. All speculation on my part, of course!

I wonder if Ford will become a full line medium duty manufacturer with the 'Avon Lake Medium'. The currently 650 and 750 are still somewhat limited (one diesel less than 7L, gas engine coming, no tandems, limited vocational applications). Will the new truck cover all the bases, or is Ford aiming at specific medium duty applications?

As for time frame, look for this to happen around March, 2014. Medium duty production will begin at Avon Lake after regular E series (van) production ends. That should give Ford some time to put a new truck together. Of course, this is contingent on ratification of the new UAW contract.

These guys called it almost a year ago: http://www.morningjournal.com/articles/2010/11/17/news/mj3684673.txt Pretty good! I think I remember reading that article, but at the time I didn't see it happening. I think RichardJensen might be right, at least some of the reason behind a renewed interest in medium trucks may be to find another home for the 6.7L Powerstroke diesel. Keep your eye on International, they are up to something. No reason for a big new plant in Alabama with Chatham still closed. And military sales are falling.........

I would have to dissagree. As an operator of many medium duty trucks, the current Ford 650 and 750 cab is not competitive with the market. It is deficient in visibilty, headroom, interior width, and the dash is poorly laid out for a medium duty truck (and that includes 2011's). Maybe using the E series wouldn't be the answer (although GM made it work in the 2003-2009 6500 and larger trucks) but if Ford is going to be redesigning these trucks I think the cab issues should be addressed.

Good point about the 6.7L diesel. When it was under development, the diesel pickup horsepower/torque war was in full swing, and Ford had image problems resulting from the troubled 6.0L Powerstroke. At the time, it made perfect sense to develop an in-house high performance truck diesel. However, while the 6.7L was under development, the market changed. Diesel fuel became substantially more expensive, diesel emission regulations became more stringent requiring expensive controls, and fuel economy suffered as a result. The market is trending away from diesels in heavy duty pickups. Even though the 6.7L is manufactured at a low cost Mexican plant, I suspect it isn't making Ford any money. The solution is to increase volume, either by selling 6.7L's to other OEM's or finding more in-house applications for the engine, medium duty certainly being one. I'll bet Ford regrets not designing the 6.7L to fit in the E series. Even if the E series is reduced to cutaway 450 models only, that's still significant volume.

Not sure. The Cargo was sold to Freightliner in the U.S.. Freightliner built them for a few years on modified FL medium duty chassis (including a few tandems and right hand drive versions). Maybe Freightliner still ownes the design here?

Ya' know, this is starting to sound a bit strange. I have been told there is a lot of vacant space at KTP, and if that is true, why didn't the 650 and 750 go there? Bob, you were thinking along those lines but I didn't see it happening, primarily because I didn't think 650 and 750 production would come back to the US. But if it did, KTP would be a natural. If the current 650 and 750 get replaced by a truck with some parts commonality with the Transit, you might think 650/750 production would be consolidated with the Transit. Instead, medium truck production goes to Avon Lake, which looks like it will become a catch-all commercial truck plant, building 650's and 750's, motorhome chassis, and E-Series cutaways. Now, as of the end of July, 650 and 750 sales were right around 6,500 units. Not a big number, but respectable considering the economy. Ford is going to design a new platform for that? They must see some huge upturn coming (remember when Ford would do 25,000 medium duty units per year?). Here are some possibilities: The current 650 and 750 continue at Avon Lake with cooperation (parts) from Navistar. An updated 650 and 750 are introduced on the 1980-2002 F medium duty chassis (or Sterling? Had not thought of that!). The 650 and 750 are replaced by a European style Transit medium duty cab and chassis (One Ford!). The current 650 and 750 are replaced by an enlarged E-450 (remember the E-550?). I heard rumors about such a truck some time ago. In any event, I still think the end of Blue Diamond and the return of medium duty production back to the states will be positive!

I think Avon Lake is only getting the F-650 and 750, along with the motorhome chassis. 650 and 750 sales so far this year are about 7,500 units. Don't know about the chassis business. I don't see them being all too busy........

I hear a lot of the Avon Lake employees are pretty P.O.'ed right now. They were hoping to get the Transit (or T Series if you want to call it that) with the idea volume would probably at least close to the E Series. Instead they get medium duty and motorhome chassis. Not only will the volume be much lower, those vehicles will probably require fewer employees to assemble.

This is good news. Looks like the rumors I was hearing about Blue Diamond were true. I think chances are when the medium duty goes into production at Avon Lake it will be substantially different than the current 650 and 750, and that's not a bad thing. The demise of Blue Diamond raises another interesting question: Will Navistar look for another jont venture to replace the lost revenue? Keep your eyes open......

Ford could use a Transit windshield, dash, HVAC, doors, and a section of roof to create a medium duty cab with a fiberglass tilt hood/fender assembly.

I found it too. Good, maybe we will see a real Ford medium duty again!

Good idea, sounds a a bit like GM's GMT-560 medium duty platform. Those trucks used many full size van components in their cabs and interiors. Funny you bring it up because about 2 years ago there were rumors Ohio was going to get a new product, and some speculated it would be the 650's and 750's. Looks like the new product will be the large Transits.

Not a chance unless Ford designs a next generation in house. The current 650 and 750 belong to Navistar. And with 650 and 750 sales likely to barely pass 8,000 this year............

Yup, I work for a utility. Big one, too. I hate to hear about accidents like that. The C.H.P. requires 6 separate tie-downs on a 580, one on each corner of the tractor, one across the front bucket, one across the rear (even though our trailers have a below deck well for the backhoe bucket), and of course locking binders. I prefer the screw type over the over-center. Even with all that chain, flip the mess and you will probably loose the machine. 9 times out of 10 if the driver is complaining about how the rig handles, he doesn't have enough load on the hitch. We like to weld stops on the deck of the trailer so the operator can position the machine right every time.

Yes, it has an Allison, and I don't know what rear end gears it has. We install a 5yd. box on a truck like this to make it harder to overload. California says 32,000#'s max. on a 2 axle, and since we usually have the bed full of broken paving, it gets heavy fast. This truck also pulls around a backhoe/loader. Another common setup around here is the 'Super 10', which is a 10yd. box on a tandem chassis with an air-lift pusher. That can max out at 44,000#'s. A few use a boost-a-load instead of the pusher, but that way you can't pull anything with the 4th. axle down. You might very well be on to something about your dealer. Let's hope so! I have heard some rumors about 'Blue Diamond' lately, but I don't want to repeat them just yet. I'm looking for some verification. Keep your eye on Navistar. They are about to open a plant in Alabama, and it looks like Chatham is closed for good.

Westport has CNG versions of many Cummins diesels, but as far as I know none of them are available as a factory install in Ford 650's or 750's. I think our plan is to install one ourselves. I think there might be enough room for a Cummins ISC 8.3L in the Ford. Remember they were offered with the Cat 3126/C-7, and those engines are much bigger than the Cummins ISB. The only way we will ever see a tandem axle Ford F-850 would be if an engine larger than the ISB was made available. And, for what it's worth, I don't think 'Blue Diamond' would ever do such a truck as long as Navistar is calling the shots. In other news, we just took delivery of a 'maxed out' 2011 F-750 5 yd. dump at work. It has the new dash, but it is poorly laid out. The air pressure gauge is still stuck in a hole behind the steering wheel like it was in the older models, and the auxillary gauges (volts and trans. temp.) are in an overhead consul. Very cheap and crude. The 6.7L ISB (I think it's 330 h.p.) pulls the truck around empty well, but rapidly falls off under load. An 8.3L would help a lot. Ford was talking about 'Ford DNA' in these trucks a few years ago, but it is painfully obvious they are nothing more than a Super Duty can on an International Durastar chassis with a Cummins engine.