mooseman

Given what I've read by the designers, it sounds like more than just a bit of preliminary engineering has been done. Even the suicide doors and seats are apparently doable. Considering how simple the lines are, here is hoping that it comes out more intact than the MKT.

I was enamored with this car the very second I laid eyes on it. It is an absolute game changer. It is absolutely perfect in every way. I have never ever seen a car before that I've said "I absolutely have to have it." But the Concept C is the first. I could honestly gush for days over this design. Please, please, let Ford know that there are design aficionados out there, guys raised on Architectural Digest, ID Magazine, HOW Design, etc. who would give their left arm for such an astonishingly brilliant creation. As long as Ford doesn't Zephyr this product, it must be made. The crease must remain exactly, the rear must remain exactly, the grille, and the seats. Don't dumb it down at all. I know the roof has to go, but all the proportions must remain. For all that is holy, please please please build this car. My deposit is waiting. Oh, and I am in that 30-40 demographic.

Every time I hear how bad the new redesign sucks I have to laugh. I have been seeing a bunch of the new Focus on the road, and every time one goes by I think, wow thats a pretty sharp car. I really don't like the faux vents, but apart from that, the car really does look classy. It has a nice tailored look about that stands out amongst the melting butter looks of every thing else on the market. If I had my druthers, Ford would stick the 6spd auto in the car, and add the 2.5 for a top-o-the-line sporty sedan with some better seats and better leather, and maybe do something about the overly gimmicky dash. But, it really does seem like a pretty nice car. People do have other choices in the market, and the fact that the Focus is pulling in a very large % of shoppers will hopefully reinforce Ford's investment in future small vehicles.

I will say one serious problem Volvo has, and that is apparently terrible residuals. When you look at lease deals with luxury cars, which are probably the norm, though I have no evidence to support that assumption, look at the residuals on their cars, terrible. I think 36 month residuals for S40s are around 46%. Compared with a BMWs 3 series which can reach up to 60% for some models. So, people cross shop on lease deals and see they can "step up" to a more expensive and dynamically better vehicle like a 3er for the same monthly payment, or in many cases even LESS, as the the "cheaper" S40. Volvo has to do something to address that issue.

I'm not sure about massive investment. They have some great vehicles. I think one of the main issues is they just aren't marketed or targeted well. Lexus does very well with basically 2 cars making up the majority of their sales, the ES and the RX, both sharing a platform with a Toyota. The C30 is great, but if Ford isn't going to bring us the Focus RS here, then Volvo should be carrying the C30 R here. No reason to invest all the time and money in the EU developing that car when they can simply throw the same chassis tuning on the C30 here and get all the car mags raving about it here as well. Watching Clarkson wax poetic on the Focus RS on Top Gear should have been a kick in the ass Ford needed to simply make the C30 the Euro Focus here, with all the accolades included. But, no, the R-line got turned into a trim and badge package. As well, the S40 might be a bit small. I own the previous gen POS Mitsu/Volvo S40, and the new one seems smaller. Even though I really like the new S40, its just too small. The S60 just doesn't do it from a dynamic or styling standpoint, as it is oooold, and the S80 is a bit of a stretch. So, what Volvo needs is the C30 2 door/S30 4 door/XC30 Wagon, C50/S50/XC50, C70/S70/XC70 and if they want a super saloon S90. The 50 would be sized in-between the 3 and 5 ser BMW, the 70 between the 5 and 7, and the 90 an executive hauler after they get the rest of the line finished, need be. But right now they are just too all-over the map. C30, C70 (thats really a C40/50) XC60 (thats really a XC50), S40, V50, S60, V70 (thats just the same as an XC70), S80, and XC90. And they supposedly have a 4 door C30 coming and maybe an XC30/40/50 coming. They need to focus and make it easier for people to shop their products. I think the issue they face is Lincoln. If Ford killed Mercury, they could use Volvo as VW competitor and Lincoln as the high end, which would make more sense in the US market. And since Volvo isn't really considered a luxury car elsewhere in the world either, it would require probably more investment to change people's perception of Volvo elsewhere than it would be to introduce Lincoln as a premium brand.

Edstock is right on the money. The "Germans" and their diesels aren't exactly terrific. The Jetta TDI just landed with a 30/41 EPA rating. Reduce that mileage 20% to account for diesel running 20% more than gasoline and you have 24/33. Wowza. Ohh, those diesels. How will Ford ever build a midsize sedan that will come close to matching 24/33? /sarcasm So, when the Hybrid Fusion/Milan/MKZ launch in 6 months and get possibly 36/40, they'll really be behind the curve. They're working feverishly on the ecoboost motors and the powershift trannies (that promise another 5% FE bump). So, it probably won't be too long before we see 1.4 or 1.6L ecoboost powershift vehicles considerably surpassing the diesel's fuel efficiency on a dollar weighted basis, even without the additional cost of diesel motors factored in.

It looks like it will be. Great news. I've heard the 2.5L and 6spd is supposed to better the old model by 1mpg. So, 23/29? Sounds perfect. The wife really liked the Tribute version and the sweet brown leather interior, so it might end up having the Mazda badge on its rump. But she hasn't looked at the Mariner yet, and I'm partial to it.

I'm seriously considering a 2009 Escape/Mariner for the wife, but I'm curious if Ford is going to make the I4 available with the same goodies as the V6 like the Fusion allows. Its a bit annoying that you have to forgo all the luxury features if you opt for the I4. So, I would be nice to know whether to wait for the '09s or look elsewhere. Thanks in advance.

No, I love the Flex, I speaking more specifically about brand managment and how the corporation itself is organized. There seems to be too much turf guarding to make the kind of lasting changes that Ford will need to get back to the top of the heap. They have done a superb job with Land Rover, Volvo, Mazda, and Aston. Now they need to find a dinstinct market for Ford and Lincoln. I'd love to see European Ford's over here, but I'm not sure it makes sense to bring them as competition with their own brands that are currently profitable. The S-Max is great, bring it over as a Volvo. And Ford really has a great brand with Mustang, they should do more to make their Ford Racing line of cars more distinct and upscale, maybe creating another boutique line. Create major market only stand-alone retailers that deal in nothing but cars like the defunct Ford GT, the GT500, the 500KR, and whatever other SVT/Ford Racing vehicles Ford has planned. People will gladly pay for higer end Ford's, but they're gonna expect better personal attention and service than you'll receive at your local Ford dealer. Many of my car nut friends have listed customer service as one ofthe key reasons they aren't big on ever purchasing a Stang versus a Mini or BMW. The 500KR is a wünder-car, but you'r egetting the same kind of service that the guy with the 5 yr old Focus gets. For $50-60k you expect latte's, loaner cars, nice digs, etc. I'm just saying Ford needs to get more focused and aggressive. They have the talent and ability to make and market world-class vehicles, but they need a real short and long term goal nad I have yet to see much evidence of that. They seem to have a new "Plan" every 18 months. I'm just looking for some continuity.

I appreciate the fact that those are all in the pipeline, just that if the Flex is 15 months out and it was intro'd at this years NYIAS, I can expect that if the F150 is into'd at next year's NAIAS then at best its coming in Oct/Nov. Same withthe B-cars, etc. So, 2009 MY at best, or if it gets pushed back to Jan '09, then 2010 MY. Thats an eternity for a company in Ford's financial condition. I really am pulling for Ford, I'm just seriously tired of Ford's over-promising and under-delivering. A Ford guy talked up the new Focus on the Autoweek forum like it was the best looking Ford small car ever and we got what we got. So, forgive me if I take all the good news on the horizon with a Morton's cardboard salt-can worth of salt. I think Ford's biggest hurdle is that it owns too many brands and is too unwilling to dump the under-performing ones. Dropping Aston made good sense in that it allows Jaguar to compete with Aston now, but Mercury isn't gonna be sported up or Europeaned up because they don't want to steal sales from Mazda or Volvo. Volvo is dropping its R line in defference to Mazda at the low-end (say a C30 R) and Jag at the high end (say an S80R). So, Ford has a brand-locked Mercury badge. The Milan is doing well. All the Mercury models do look betetr than their Ford cousins, but couldn't you just roll those changes into a Ford ST badging and add the price difference? Sounds better than suporting an entire brand with little true identity. Lincoln dealers will just have to bite the bullet and become low volume high profit dealers like Lexus/BMW/Volvo, etc. If dealers can't make money just selling Lincoln's, its only becasue Ford hasn't fielded competitive products til just now. The Lincoln dealers in my town, which is about 1m people, are Ford/Mercury/Lincoln dealers. That can't be good for Ford. A Fusion/Milan/MKZ sitting side by side? Edge/MKX? No, bad business practice. It might get expesnive, but give Lincoln dealers an opportunity to sell out their franchise to Ford and let Ford keep a few boutique dealers around. But Mercury is dead weight with Mazda and Volvo in the stable. I want to see more agressive moves like that, not half-hearted attempts like I've seen up 'til now.

Well, I know a few non-domestic loving car guys who are pretty intrgiued by the Flex, as am I. I own a Bimmer and a Volvo and find the Flex to be, though not perfect, well designed with useful technology that I actually need in a family car. I find minivans horribly unappealing. My biggest problem with the Flex is that its not here sooner. I for the life of me can't figure out why Ford is moving so slowly across the board. GM is making fast sweeping aggressive changes, especially with dying brands like Satirn, and Ford seems rather unhurried and lost. Apart from the Flex, I've been as disappointed with Ford in this car show season as last season. B-Cars? Diesels? Fusion Hybrid? Is Ford even interested in competing? From the looks of the Escape's drivetrain it doesn't seem so. Same 15 year old Duratec 30 with a 4-speed? The gawdawful Focus mismash of styling cues and clumsiness? Arrrgh. Ranger? New F150? None of it. Just vinyl stripes, paint jobs, and trims bits and badges. Mazda is doing well. Aston WAS kicking ass 'til they decided to sell'em. Volvo looks good, even Land Rover seems well placed. So, I know there are SOME people in managment who have half a clue, but they don't seem to work at Ford proper. Anyhow, I'm all for buying a Ford Flex, and would own one right now if Ford actually wasn't gonna make me wait 15 more months. Who knows what the comeptition will have out by then. So, that 15 month wait might lose them one more potential customer. And with supposed 24 month development time that Ford supposedly cut their cycles down to, it makes me wonder when they actually decided to build it.

I don't know why everyone is worried about the Toyo 5.7. Toyo is probably more worried about having a competitive LD diesel to Ford's CGI motor due with the 2009 F150. With gas prices staying high, the big motor news is diesels, not 380hp gassers.