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Coming from DTP, I know all about tag relief. I don't need to be reminded of it, as I'm quite happy with mass relief now. I know about the "at least one hour after shift start" and the "at least 1/2 hour after lunch" rules, so no need to school me on those, either. Nor do I need coaching on utility... I have been with the company long enough to know what I am getting into before I bid for something. What on earth I cannot understand is WHY the union would allow something like this to happen. Being at Dearborn for 3 years, we never, and I repeat, NEVER, went on break more than one hour early, even on tag relief, when something happened causing the whole plant to shut down. It is ludicrous to think this happens "all the time," because it doesn't. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong, plain and simple. All I was wondering was why the union would allow something that they know not a single person in the membership would agree to. That is what I am puzzled by.

Postings will go up in hierarchical order. 1. If FRAP has employees on layoff, or on no-pay-no-benefits status, those employees will be asked first. 2. If that list is exhausted, the order then goes to in-zone layoffs (all plants in zone 1 will receive this opportunity, should the list get this far). The list, in order, will go to 1) Employees on layoff, 2) Employees classed as surplus, 3) ACTIVE Employees working at a plant that has layoffs, and 4) Ford employees working at any ACH location (current or former). All in-zone layoffs will be forced to FRAP (AFTER any volunteers are placed) in inverse seniority order. 3. If that list is exhausted, the order then goes to RTBU's. 4. If that list is exhausted, the order then goes to any laid-off employees or those defined as surplus at out-of-zone locations. 5. If that list is exhausted, Ford employees at ACH-LLC locations out-of-zone will then get the posting (this is rendered irrelevant since the only ACH locations left are in zone 1). 6. If that list is exhausted, facilities out-of-zone with employees on layoff will receive the posting. 7. If that list is exhausted, laid off skilled trades with or without production seniority may volunteer. 8. If that list is exhausted, employees on indefinite layoff will be placed according to the following: 1) Employees can accept the assignment, 2) decline it and be placed on inactive status with no pay and no benefits, or 3) Bump the least senior employee in-zone to their plant. The least senior employee must then either accept the transfer or take inactive status. 9. If that list is exhausted, surplus skilled trades can be forced into production at the new facility, at production rates, while still retaining return-to-trade rights. 10. If all lists are exhausted, the company then considers re-hires before new hires. Source: Book 1, Appendix N, pp. 194-199.

I am utility, but being dragged out of my area to relieve in another area is something I shouldn't have to do.

I would like to know who on earth would agree to something like this... On Saturday, LAP B-Crew was scheduled for a mandatory Saturday. Nothing big, just another mandatory OT day. At 7:18pm, we were notified break, instead of being at 9:00pm, washappening at 7:30pm, because we were low on headliners and the truck was on its way. Lunch is at midnight. No member of the union would answer our calls after said "early break announcement" because apparently, they were the ones who agreed to it. Article X, Section 6, Subsection B, 2nd paragraph says: "Except in emergencies, an employees' regular lunch period shall not be advanced or delayed by more than one hour unless the employee agrees to such change." This section, I believe, also extends to regular, defined mass relief. When did bargaining all of a sudden define "emergency"?? As defined by Merriam-Webster, Emergency is: "an unforeseen combination of circumstances or the resulting state that calls for immediate action". RUNNING OUT OF HEADLINERS IS NOT AN EMERGENCY!!! They had known headliners were running low, but ran us anyway. This cancels out "unforeseen", as the company KNEW they were low. The resulting state, downtime, would have happened anyway (we were down for 6 minutes after we came back, which is not nearly enough time for the company to say that there was a disruption in production requiring us to make up the deficiency). After we came back, we had to run for 4 straight hours before getting our lunch. People (including me) were getting shuffled all around because everyone and their brother had to use the bathroom after 10:00pm and AWOLs were rampant that day. I had to give bathroom breaks on 15 different jobs because the union is such a pushover down here. What kind of IDIOT bargaining rep would agree to something like this?

Setting the topic straight... Profit sharing is at $6,065 into the profit share fund per employee who has worked at least 1387.5 hours so far this year. For those who have worked less, a pro-rated share of that amount goes into the fund based on how many hours the employee has worked so far. Special items have reduced our share by approximately $406 per employee. Had these amounts not been excluded, the amount would be $6,471 into the fund per employee. To (again) set the record straight, an individual employee's profit share is not capped at $12,000. The only amount capped is the amount per employee that goes into the total profit share fund, and that cap is at $12,000. However, this amount is highly unlikely to ever be obtained, as our profit share only includes North American automotive-related profits. The highest amount ever North America has ever made strictly on automotive profits was this quarter, at $2.3 billion. If you multiply that by 4, you get $9.2 billion, still $2.8B shy of the "cap". 4Q earnings are almost always significantly less than any other quarter, as most automakers use the last quarter to write off inventory and other special items. At Ford's current level of employees (appx. 41,000), this is a theoretical example of how profit share checks will look: 4Q earnings: $1.3 billion (estimated) Special items: $1.0 billion (estimated) Profits to calculate share: $300 million (estimated) Net amount to fund per employee with over 1,850 hours worked: $300 (estimated) Assume 41,000 employees. Profit share amount into fund: 31,000 employees @ 1,850 hours or more: 6,365 * 31,000 = $197,315,000 (estimated) 10,000 employees @ 1,849.9 hours or less: 6,365 * (10,000 * (1300 / 1850)) = $44,726,855 (estimated, 1300 is the avg. hours worked between the 10K employees who did not achieve 1,850 hours) Total profit share fund: $242,041,855 (DO NOT reduce this amount by 10% for VEBA - it has not yet been finalized, or even determined if legal yet) Total hours worked by all hourly employees: 82,000,000 Profit Share Per compensated Hour (SPH): $2.9517 Take your total compensated hours (OT premiums excluded) and multiply that by the SPH. The average profit share for those who worked at least 2,080 hours (40 hours/wk for 52 weeks) should be around $6,139.53. This is before taxes, union dues and any other deductions. For those who had less, simply adjust your compensated hours down for the amount you had, and multiply it by the SPH. No bickering is needed - this is all spelled out in Book 3 of the agreement. The company is required to provide to the union each year 2 figures - the amount of employees and a breakdown of how many employees worked how much hours - in 100-hour increments up to 1,850 hours. This is how the profit share for those with less than 1,850 hours is figured.

Unfortunately, that is what it is coming to. DTP agreed in their hideous local agreement that only one person per team may be granted the day off at any given time. Anyone who requests the same day off who is on that team after the first request will be automatically denied. The company is basically forcing us to AWOL if we want time off. Then the pain of going through Labor to clear is ridiculous as we have to wait for the plethora of people who did the same thing. It all boils down to what the company wants and just how far the union will/can be pushed.

You're quite welcome. I check my ego at the front page and allow only the rational thinker to come onto this board. I only post facts that I am sure of or that can easily be verified. Logical discussions require logical thinkers, and that is what I am. If in a subsequent post I find out I am wrong, or mis-stating the truth, I will correct myself. This is a reason why nearly every one of my posts are edited - I either find glaring inaccuracies in what I wrote, or i make things much clearer to understand for everyone. Either way, you will find that my posts are informing and well thought out, mainly because my goal is to provide accurate information to those seeking it.

Page 186A of the white pages of the new agreement, titled "3 Crew Agreement" (otherwise known as page 196 of the PDF document) states the following: It is not necessary to work 7 days before getting double time premiums. It is only necessary to work on your third RDO. Your first and second RDO's are paid at time and a half. The reason I added emphasis on the two statements above is because the way the language is written, it effectively excludes the need to work on the first and second days before getting double time on the "7th" day. It is automatically paid to you this way (speaking from first-hand experience when I was at DTP). Your brothers and sisters at CAP should not need to worry whether their OT is going to get paid right. It is already programmed into TWOS to give us the correct pay (that is, as long as your supervisor pays you correctly). You WILL get double time for working on your third RDO EVEN IF you have not worked on your 1st/2nd. As above, RDO premiums are determined by the RDO day. NO MATTER how many hours you (didn't) work on RDO days 1 & 2, you WILL get double time for RDO 3 (Sundays for A & B crews, Thursday for C-Crew). I know this for a fact.

You are right Decker, contractual language is key. In reference to 3rd Day RDO time, double time is paid REGARDLESS of hours worked on RDO's 1 & 2. It was written into the contract this way to keep some semblance of 7th-day work as a bonus. The problem for A-Crew with that is timing. The only time that (realistically) this can happen is if C-Crew moves the Sunday start to day shift should Monday be a holiday, or a day of high known absenteeism (such as Super Bowl Monday). Then, members of A-Crew can come in on these days and get their double time (if people go to church, have a personal, etc.) However, a Super Sunday for A-Crew is automatic double time for all hours worked (assuming 40 hours during the week - otherwise it is straight time up to the 40-hour point). Truthfully, B-Crew gets the shaft in the AWS OT scheduling. The ONLY way for B-Crew to get double time is to come in during C-Crew on Sunday. This was, and still is, exceptionally rare, even at a plant like DTP. In 3 years of being there and 19 months of being on B-Crew, I only got called in on a Sunday twice. AWS schedules have been at Ford for quite a while - they were only nationally introduced this last contract. DTP started 3-crews in 2008, then went back to 2 later that year, only to re-start it in 2009. Other plants had been trying it on a trial basis up to the contract, and are finally implementing it full-time thanks to Appendix W.

A-Crew is entitled to time and a half on Friday & Saturday, and double time on Sunday. B-Crew is entitled to time and a half on Saturday and Monday, and double time on Sunday. Ask anyone how this is fair - Monday is technically your third day off... BUT since the pay week starts on a Monday, it becomes your "first" day off, so it only gets T+1/2 premium.

There is no way on God's green earth that I would let the union even THINK about controlling my pension. If they want something to control, it should be their own spending. The strike fund is going to be bankrupt pretty soon unless King decides that strike fund money should be used for STRIKES, and not for stupid political activities, of which probably 75% (or more) of them will fail to get elected who he wants. IMO. I don't think King realizes how out-of-touch he is with workers. Selling us this last contract was something he probably told the company "It's guaranteed to pass"... Then when he saw it going down he put the results on Facebook to scare us into voting yes. Any money that the company wants to give me up front is worthless if I'm getting short-changed in the process. If the company tells me that they want to buy out my pension, the numbers are worthwhile, and the union won't have a say in what I do with it, then show me the money and we'll talk. But if King and his followers think they can manage it better than I can, and I have no other option than that, then I'll continue to rely on the company for that income.

Here's the thing... you can only contribute "bonuses" to a tax-free account up to a certain amount (about $46,000 per year). In order to keep this (relatively) tax-free, you'd probably have to throw the whole thing into an IRA. One way or another, unless those amounts are net (which I doubt, except for the retirees), Uncle Sam will want his share. Unnecessary math below... 40,984 active employees (about 39,000 covered by the traditional pension program), about 135,000 current retirees. Ford currently has $26.7 billion in pension fund assets. Assume a 2% increase per year, with 4% contributions made, and a 6% outflow every year. This equals no net change. Let's jump ahead to 2015. 43.200 employees (the same 39,000 covered), 131,500 retirees. Ford offers pension buyouts at the scales mentioned above. Assume the following: Category 1: 3.000 of 5,000 accept offer. $675M paid out now, $360M in future liabilities for buyout takers, $1.44B in future liabilities for those that remain. Category 2: 5,000 of 8,000 accept offer. $1.5B paid out now, appx. $2.16B in future liabilities for those that remain. Category 3: 6,000 of 11,000 accept offer. $2.25B paid out, appx. $3.6B in future liabilities for those that remain. Category 4: 8,000 of 10,000 accept offer. $3.6B paid out, appx. $1.44B in future liabilities for those that remain. Category 5: 4,000 of 5,000 accept offer. $2B paid out, appx. $720M in liabilities remain. Active employees bought out of pension: 26,000 Amount paid out from fund: $10.25B Expected future liabilities from remaining active employees: $9.72B There is still well over $16B in the pension fund to fund those who are currently retired and those who wish to not take the pension buyout. Ford's liabilities are reduced by approximately 65%. Stock soars. Ford has record profits.... hopefully. This is an example ONLY and ONLY illustrates my view of a possible outcome. All numbers above assume each retiree will live 20 years beyond their retirement date at a pension level of $36,000 per year. If interest and outflows remained the same, Ford would have enough money in the pension fund to make it last for appx. 50 more years, with funds running out in 2065, pretty much covering all employees eligible for this pension program. It's too early in the morning for me to do this kind of math, but I needed something to do...

I think the IUAW would, of course, get its normal 1.15% of the buyout amount. But I don't think the company would allow them to take more of that. Retiree dues are voluntary in the first place, and the VEBA is not something we (directly) contribute to. If they did put in the buyout clause that the union was to get any more of a cut, then I can very well see an uproar within the membership.

Actually, my numbers are based on what salary is being offered. I don't find them bogus at all - I actually find them quite useful, considering life expectancies, seniority, etc. You want bogus, believe all the rumors about a $15,000 settlement (or any settlement, for that matter) from the arbitrator. You want EDUCATED guesses, talk to me.

My guess is that this will be offered in either 2015 or 2019. The UAW will have their say, and make it strictly voluntary, but don't look for too much more than what salaried is being offered. $500K is probably the maximum they would offer, and that would be for those with 40+ years in. I've been looking over this, and my guesses go like this: 10 but less than 15 years at the time of offering: $225,000 plus a $500 per month payment for the length of retirement, beginning at the later of the retirement date or age 62. 15 but less than 20 years at the time of offering: $300,000 lump-sum, with no additional payment 20 but less than 25 years at the time of offering: $375,000 lump-sum, with no additional payment 25 but less than 40 years at the time of offering: $450,000 lump-sum, with no additional payment 40 years or more at the time of offering: $500,000 lump-sum, with no additional payment. Retirees would probably get options like this: Retired for less than one year at the time of payment: $250,000 net after taxes, no additional payment. Retired for more than one but less than 5 years at the time of payment: $175,000 net after taxes, no additional payment. Retired for more than 5 but less than 10 years at the time of payment: $125,000 net after taxes, no additional payment. Retired for more than 10 years at the time of payment: $75,000 net after taxes, no additional payment.

In reality, C-Crew is the most expensive crew to operate... There is the 10% shift premium for all of those on that shift... yes, there are mostly low-seniority people there, but the majority of them make the first-tier wage. At $28.24/hour, that's an extra $2.82 per hour, per person, that the company has to shell out. Anyone with any knowledge of the contract should know that if you work the holiday, you can convert your holiday pay to personal time. That has been in the contract for years. In the case of C-Crew, however, national holidays scheduled as regular days of work can't be converted. You have to work on the "observed" holiday in order to be eligible for conversion. That's just one of the pitfalls of working C-Crew. There are too many more to mention, so don't get me started. It is frustrating to have to work on a company holiday only to realize you are only getting straight time for it - trust me, this comes from experience. This is what happens when the company puts wording in LOU's that benefits them without the UAW realizing it. DTP has been doing "Super Days" for a few years now. It's the nature of the beast. But, two crews will NEVER overlap each other - they simply come in at their normal time, albeit on a normal day off. I don't know how CAP's 3-Crew system will (or does) work, but the way it works at DTP, if a "Super" day is scheduled, A-Crew comes in on Sunday at 6am, and B-Crew comes in Saturday at 5:30pm. The only differences are that they can't work you more than 10 on a super day, and that it's one of your scheduled days off, which is guaranteed overtime. C-Crew does not have any additional slots to come in, therefore they never get the chance to work a "Super" day (they can't get called in either). That's just how it works. We are all creatures of habit, and it sucks when starting times get changed and there's nothing you can do about it. This is the auto industry - never expect the expected. Also, don't think for a second that bumping to another crew means you get to keep your same job. Here at LAP, yes, you may be able to bump to another shift... The asterisk in all of that is that you DO NOT necessarily get to keep your same job - you go to available work. I guess that's how the company wants it from now on... don't quote me on that though. C-Crew SUCKS. After 14 months of it, all I can say is this... If you want a shift like that, then more power to you. Otherwise, be prepared. Your body will most likely not get used to it and your record will suffer because of it (speaking from personal experience).

myfordbenefits.com, "Overview of TESPHE plan": Rollovers You may arrange for a rollover of the taxable portion of a cash distribution from an eligible tax-qualified plan of your last employer. Eligible tax-qualified plans include 401(k) plans like the TESPHE, defined benefit plans like the Ford UAW Retirement Plan, or a conduit IRA. (A conduit IRA is one that holds nothing more than the distribution from your prior employer’s plan, plus earnings, and is not mixed with other IRA assets.) Beginning January 1, 2002, you may also roll over distributions from 403(B) arrangements (tax-free annuities), 457 plans (governmental plans), traditional IRAs, and after-tax amounts from eligible tax-qualified plans. The after-tax contributions from another tax-qualified plan must be made in a trustee-to-trustee transfer (e.g., a direct rollover between your prior employer plan and TESPHE). The TESPHE may not accept after-tax monies from an IRA. Beginning March 1, 2008, employees who retire from the Company under the Ford-UAW Retirement Plan or the General Retirement Plan as a result of a separation program may roll over to the TESPHE the lump-sum enhancement retirement plan incentive payments from the respective retirement plans. You may also roll over an eligible distribution from your deceased spouse or former spouse (as a result of a Qualified Domestic Relations Order) from the eligible plans listed above. You may: Have the cash assets transferred from the plan of your prior employer directly to TESPHE (direct rollover); or  Contribute to TESPHE all or a portion of the cash assets distributed to you from your prior employer’s plan, provided you make the contribution within 60 days after you receive the distribution (60-day rollover) You should be aware that once your assets are transferred into the TESPHE, they are subject to TESPHE withdrawal and distribution rules. You may make a rollover to TESPHE without waiting the normal three months for eligibility. Contact the NESC for more information if you would like to arrange a rollover and to obtain the necessary form. FYI.

If your TESPHE is maxed out, your election will be refused by TESPHE and your check will be returned to you. Normally, they give us a month's notice, but seeing how this is an accelerated payment, I doubt we will be given that option. To add: You can take that payment and put it in a Roth IRA, a CD, or any other savings avenue and then transfer it to your TESPHE in 2012. Unfortunately, even though it is admirable you are saving, IRS regulations limit the amount you can put into your TESPHE every year - this has nothing to do with the company. Those rules are designed to prevent the wealthy from stashing all of their earnings to defer and/or avoid paying taxes on them.

I would much rather trust the UAW-Ford contract language. Here's what that says: Page 428, Book 1, Letters of Understanding: I have no clue how anyone got "December 15th" out of "as soon as possible after ratification".

The language states "as soon as practicable upon ratification". GM's stated the second pay period after the first monday after official notification by the union that the membership has ratified the contract. My guess is anywhere from 2-3 weeks. Profit sharing is also to be paid "upon ratification", so I would take it to mean that both of these are going to be paid out around the same time.

This is the point I am trying to get across to the people who have turned a blind eye to everything but Mullaly and Ford's salary. You have to look at what salary got back versus what we didn't, not look at the salary of the CEO - you are comparing apples to watermelons in that aspect.

If you add FMCC back into the formula, and use the first 2 quarters as an addition to FNA earnings, Here's what you get: 1st Quarter: $713M EBIT 2nd Quarter: $604M EBIT Total: $1.317B EBIT Add this to the $3.752B already announced, and you get $5.069B. The profit share fund would start out at $5,069 per employee and vary with compensated hours. This is a loss of $1,317 (minimum) per employee in possible profit sharing. This should have been foreseeable. It is most likely only incremental volume, if that... The production that would come in would most likely only be enough to replace the lost Mazda6 production in order to keep the plant viable.

Well... from the 2010 proxy statement: Total 2010 compensation for the five current Named Executive Officers is: Alan Mulally, president and CEO, earned $1,400,000 in salary and $9,450,000 in cash bonus in 2010. Like he did in 2009, in 2010 Mulally continued to take a voluntary 30 percent reduction from his 2008 salary, as part of the company’s plan to conserve cash and reduce expenses. Mulally’s total listed compensation – including the grant date value of long-term stock options and other stock-based awards – was $26,520,515. Bill Ford earned $1,400,000 in salary and $2,700,000 in cash bonus for 2010. Bill Ford, who did not receive any salary, bonus or stock awards for 2005, 2006 and 2007, also took a voluntary 30 percent reduction in 2009 and 2010 from his 2008 salary. Bill Ford’s total listed compensation – including the grant date value of long-term stock options and other stock-based awards – was $26,460,998, but included salary for 2008 and 2009 and the value of stock awards made for 2008. This reflects his pledge to not accept compensation for those years until the Compensation Committee determined, as it did in August 2010, that Ford’s global Automotive operations had achieved full-year profitability. Mark Fields, Ford executive vice president and president, The Americas, earned $1,337,500 in salary and $3,600,000 in cash bonus in 2010. His total listed compensation – including the grant date value of long-term stock options and other stock-based awards – was $8,818,892. Lewis Booth, Ford executive vice president and chief financial officer, earned $1,237,500 in salary and $3,000,000 in cash bonus in 2010. His total listed compensation – including the grant date value of long-term stock options and other stock-based awards – was $8,196,821. John Fleming, Ford executive vice president, Global Manufacturing & Labor Affairs, earned $776,250 in salary and $1,400,000 in cash bonus in 2010. His total listed compensation – including the grant date value of long-term stock options and other stock-based awards – was $5,916,261.Compared to us, the top 5 officers of Ford made enough in 2010 to pay the salaries of 1,167 1st tier employees, or 2,354 entry-level employees - for the whole year. Salaried givebacks totalled approximately $90,500,000 in 2010, in the form of restoration of merit raises and bonuses (This figure assumes a 2.7% raise on an average salary of $75,000, and a $2500 bonus for the year), enough for 1,392 1st tier employees' salaries or 2,805 entry level employees' salaries. If you total these two numbers together, which adds up to $166,513,487, you get MORE than enough to restore our COLA, restore our performance bonuses, restore Easter Monday as a holiday, AND return our lost break time for 2010. You would STILL have money left over from that! The only reason I am posting numbers like this is because no one else seems to want to give the facts. All of this information is publically verifiable in stock reports and thru various business sources, such as Crain's Detroit Business.

It's kind of hard to explain. The formula stops at 1,850 compensated hours per employee for "full" profit sharing. Anything less than that dilutes the formula. You will, however, receive a profit share for EACH compensated hour you work, regardless of amount of hours worked.

I really don't want to tell anyone how to vote, so I won't - I'll just provide you with some interesting facts. - A $6,000 signing bonus is the biggest signing bonus ever offered in a contract negotiation. The previous record was $3,000 in 2003 and 2007. - A profit sharing payment has never been accelerated before. We have always had to wait until March to receive the full amount. - Admttedly, about 50% of the "investment" Ford is making (or committing to) is product that would have already been sourced to our US plants. However, a vehicle that has been built in a different country has never been brought back to the US for production. The Fusion is the perfect example of this. - The ONLY thing that is capped about profit sharing is the amount that is figured into the formula. Your ACTUAL profit share contains no cap (However, it would be highly unlikely that this amount would even be approached, let alone exceeded). - The current consumer price index (The table at which COLA was figured) is currently at a 3-month average of 214.1263. The formula would have rounded this off to 214.13. COLA began the last contract at 195.13. For every increase of 0.085 in the CPI, COLA increased by 1 cent. The 2007 contract began deferrals of COLA at a maximum of 17 cents per employee per hour towards health care. At the current rate, if we had not given it up in 2009, minus deferrals, we would be receiving $2.06 per hour of COLA. This is AFTER the deferrals have taken place. So figure this out: From Sept. 2007 to Aug. 2011, the cost of living INCREASED by about 9.73% (This calculation does NOT include medical care, since our COLA was based on all items LESS medical care). While wages stay stagnant, prices continue to rise. If this trend continued, COLA at the time of the new contract in 2015 would be worth $4.47 PER HOUR. This would put us at a wage of appx. $33.00 per hour, not including shift premiums. Midnight shift and C-Crews would receive a premium of $3.30 per hour, putting them at a rate of about $36.30 per hour. Assuming about 15,000 employees are on this shift system-wide, $242,424,000 in additional labor costs would be placed on the company. $121,212,000 would be added for those on afternoons with the same employment numbers, and $116,220,000 for day shift, assuming 12,500 employees. This is also assuming current numbers of employment - this would of course increase if more entry-level workers were hired. The company's labor costs would increase by a total of $479,856,000 if this were to stay intact. Bringing current profit levels into consideration, the company would have to sell about 250,000 additional trucks or about 550,000 additional cars to defray these costs and maintain current profit levels. If these costs were not defrayed, this would decrease our profit share by approximately $800 per year (based on the new formula) or $3,200 over the life of the contract. Based on the example above, COLA really does help us, but can hurt the company too if it spirals up. Just some things to think about, for those of you who haven't voted yet.