mkoesel

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/02/01/lou...e-aston-martin/ (First thread I've started here in probably over a year - just thought it was interesting)

I saw the MKR in person earlier this evening and it looks spectacular. It truly is the best looking concept car at the show in my opinion. It will be very unfortunate if this one fades into the history books llike so many past Lincoln concepts.

Its all handled through BMW. They have a program designed expressly for this purpose. Pricing is fairly aggressive. MSRP for European Delivery is roughly 7% under normal US dealer delivery. Then, because the car will not count against dealership allocation, good dealers will negotiate further. You can get them as low as $500 over European Delivery Invoice depending on the model you are buying and where you live. We paid $1200 over.

Posted this in another thread already but - Am I seeing things or does that Lincoln coupe have small rear suicide doors? I guess it could just be a sheetmetal seam, but that seems an awkward place for one, no? Anyway, that new grill rocks. I mean its original and bold. I also notice the car keeps with the trend in Lincoln concepts where they tend to have a defined crease surrounding the front fascia that seperates it from the sides of the fenders. I recall that wacky SUV/Car thing from a couple years back as well as the Mark IX having the same styling feature. And perhaps that T-Bird based concept did too - can't recall for sure on that one. Anywa, I like that look, and I wish they'd bring it to production.

I'm probably going to get flamed out the door for bringing this up here, but... My wife and I just recently picked up a BMW 335i sedan. We picked it up in Europe, so we got a sizeable chunk of change off the purchase price. Of course, we also had to pay for a trip to Europe, but we've all seen the GT500 commercial where the guy takes his car to Germany, right? Well, yeah, its fun. In fact its amazingly fun. Bumping the rev-limiter in 4th gear is surreal, and so is driving across a country in 2 hours. Okay, so there aren'y *that* many de-regulated zones on the autobahns. But many have speeds between 80-100MPH and I made very liberal use of that. In fact, I was never the only one going 30-50MPH over the limit - always lots of company there. Anyway, now back to the car. The out-the-door price was under $40k. It goes 0-60 in under 5 seconds accoding to magazine tests, and I can tell you its definitely faster than my car, so I believe those tests. It handles about as good as any car could hope to. Oh its not a loaded to the gills techno-gadget freak show. But who wants that anyway? No, its pretty much a stripper model. And that's the way it should be, frankly. So, I can't help but wonder, when I see that Shelby GT price, how many people even realize what else they can get for that money. I don't mean to call anyone out, we all have our preferences, and frankly part of me wishes that Mustangs still got me fired up the way they once did. But I am here to say that these horsepower wars are alive and well, and they have permeated their way into the entry luxury market. And that is special because these cars were already RWD and great handlers, and now they are packing some nice powerplants as well. A real fun time to be a car enthusiast, no matter what you like to drive. Ok, back to my Christmas Ale.

Wow. Okay, well nice chatting with you then.

We aren't talking about a Mustang Pinto. We are talking about world class cars that happen to use the Mustang name.

First post here in awhile. If this turns out to be true (and I think that it just might) then I suspect that this is a calculated risk by Mulally to make the most of every last bit of brand equity ford has. The thing we have to realize is that the Mustang will always be limited to 150k (or so) units in its current form because coupes will never reach the volume they were at when the Mustang was conceived. I think that it is almost impossible that they would sell less of these by adding a sedan and wagon. There will be some angry fans. Some will never get over it. But in the meantime, they know that putting this name on a car alone will get it major attention. More attention, IMHO, than almost any other name you could put on a car and especially more than past, forgotten Ford models (like Falcon or Fairlane). And speaking of Mulally this will make or break him. He will go down in infamy if this kills the Mustang (even if one were to assert that it and the entirity of Ford along with it would have died anyway). But if it works, then he may well be labeled the savior.

True. But its no guarantee against it either. I think the key would be combining the pieces of the business that are successful. It needn't be anything more than sharing more component development programs, at least at first.

Richard, I'll bet he'd sell to the highest bidder and never look back.

I think its fairly safe to say that both Ford and GM have lost most of their marketshare to the Japanese rather than each other. So why not team up in some fashion?

That was my first thought also. Taking it a step further, it could be a strategic move to get SAIC to pay a premium price for Land Rover if they wish to obtain the Rover name. In other words they could use the Rover name as leverage to get SAIC to take Land Rover as well.

Wow, had not heard these things from my hometown dealership. Never purchased a Ford in Monroe, but had heard "decent" things. The new spread certainly looks impressive, I guess they are making money despite the poor service and customer relations.

And yet I cannot imagine it being much longer than any other small V8 designed to compete against the 350hp+ V8s already available in this class. How long is the Volvo 4.4L V8? And the Duratec 35 V6? All this talk I hear of a new V8 for FWD applications seems like just that - talk... :shrug:

The W8 actually had two cylinder heads. If they had built a VR8 with a 15 degree bank angle like the VR6, then they'd be able to have a single head. To me this would have been a great idea. But probably too long to mount transversely. Instead they chose to do what is effectively two VR4's connected at a 72 degree angle. It was a neat looking engine (I ogled over it at NAIAS a few years back), but ultimately no more compelling than the current 3.6L VR6. RIP.

Pardon me? The current BMW 4.8L V8 (found in the 5 series, 6 series, 7 series, and 2007 X5) makes 360hp (less in the X5). The new 3.0L N54 light pressure turbo is making 300ft-lb, 300hp. This is 28hp more than the N53 HPI motor used outside north America, and 35hp more than the N52 Valvetronic (at its highest level of tune). Than is only about 10% more power. They are using a conservative tune. Remember these are _light pressure turbos_ along the lines of Volvo and Saab. Fuel economy, durability, driveability come first. Yes, BMW (or anyone) could easily build a turbo charged V8 making 500hp, or well more than that. But they will not do that any time soon, if ever. Finally, if you go back to read the originally quote to which I refered, you'll see that I was talking about the benchmark for Lexus, Mercedes, BMW (the class leaders in powertrain). So 380hp will indeed be where the bar is set (based on the Lexus 4.6L), regardless of where the BMW V8 comes in.

Agreed, although I think that opinion would only be held by a few radically opinioned folks. So, what are the numbers for the production LPT 3.5L V6? Do you have inside information? Hmm... ...greater than 345hp... ...But less than 360hp. Torque would presumably be similar. And this is great, its competitive. At lease for today. And definitely moreso than the Yamaha V8 which will soon (by end of decade) be outclassed by 3.5L-4L passenger car V6s unless it gets some attention. Regarding those Lexus, Benz, and BMW V8s, the latest ones are all that really matter, of course. No one would be impressed if this car showed up for MY 2009 with little more power than luxury car V8s from early in the decade. Keep in mind though, as I mentioned earlier, BMW is reportedly working on a 4.4L TT V8 which would raise the benchmark to 380hp for this trio (Lexus, BMW, Mercedes). Careful with the Audi V8. Its at 400hp+ naturally aspirated now, and was at 360hp five years ago. You may want to point out that this is only in very high trim level products. But in fact, the version used in the A6 and A8 today is nearly potent as the one used in the original S8. We may expect 380hp in these models for the next generation, if the motor is not replaced. Now having clarified all of that, admittedly, with only 4.2L the torque output will never approach class-leading.

Bingo. Question is, why couldn't they make the Yamaha motor more competitive? Audi has managed to remain surprisingly competitive with their 4.2L V8. That outcome is not at all out of the question. However, this turbo had better bring the goods. If its laggy and anemic it won't get favorable reviews. 350hp, 350ft-lb is where they need to be, and smooth power delivery. Absolutely. And I think everyone will agree the 3.5L in naturally aspirated form is great for the entry trim level. It is the idea of having a flagship without a V8 that seems risky. Not necessarily bad, just a little risky. I won't argue with that since I have absolutely no details of the D3 engine compartment and packaging constraints. However, I wasn't even trying to remotely to address such an issue. Rather, I was saying that I am pretty good at math, and I can't figure where this 5.2 came from. That's all.

Wait - you figured what now? 3.5L x 1.33 = 4.65L ~= 4.7L

Hey don't stop there. People are paying $150,000 for 6 cyl Porsches. Suckers! And check out Lotus chargin 60k for a 4 cyl Toyota powered Exige. Its robbery, I'm telling you. The thing is, some People don't really care how many cylinders the car has as long as its fast and nimble. I'll take a 6 cyliner car that can handle the twisties andy day over a V8 powered one that can't.

Interesting if true. This would be the third new V8 family coming then, the other two being the Hurricane and the new light-truck diesel. Perhaps they will build a 60 degree V8 out of the Duratec 35, similar to how the LR diesel V8 (and the upcoming Ford version just mentioned) is a 60 degree V8 based on 2.7L PSA-Ford V6. Or very similar to the old Yamaha V8 in the SHO for that matter. That would give them a compact 4.7L V8 which would potentially benefit from the direct injection and turbocharging development that is coming for the 3.5L V6. I think that would shut everyone up pretty quick. :D

Exactly. Although the 3.5L V6 won't ever match the V8 in peak torque without forced induction. Now if they grew it to a 4L V6, then maybe it would be pretty darn close. And that may well happen where CUVs are concerned. Although there's no reason you can't put the turbo 6 in the CUV too. I expect 350hp or so and that will be good to compete with the competition for now. However, keep in mind the 5 series gets the new I6 turbo for MY08 and also there is a new ~4.4L turbo V8 rumored to be coming by end of decade. But if anything this will put Ford in good company. BMW has been the traditional champion for naturally aspirated motors, and even they see that forced induction is the way of the future (except for their M cars).

True enough, but one has to wonder if that motor will even survive next years Accord redesign. I could see them going to a 3.2L or even a 3.5L. Most of the competition has moved on from their 3.0L motors or are soon (Ford and Mazda included) so I expect Honda will as well.

Doesn't this quote: "Frankly, like the ordinary American, the car writers probably give the foreign vehicles the benefit of a doubt because they've had such good records. Thus Toyota has had some recalls lately, but they get a pass because they've been so good in the past." Essentially capture the opposing argument? I mean, he basically acknowledges here that there is a bias. So I have to wonder why he bothered with the rest of the article. As far as I can tell, no one is saying that the press is completely at fault. Yet his diatribe seems to be in direct response to such a hypothetical person.

I'm having trouble believing the Fiesta would be worse in this market than the Aveo hatchback. Now, to be honest, I don't know how good or bad that is, but the car seems to get by at least without getting completely lambasted. And this, even though it really is not a great car. Neither are the Versa or Jazz for that matter. Anyway, I suspect GM is making money on it. IMHO, Fiesta would be no worse than the Kia Rio hatch, which looks like a pretty good entry to me. I appreciate Ford's long term strategy but I do believe that sitting out of this market for such a long period of time is a bit of a risk.