bzcat

Well, back in the day, XJ Cherokee was considered midsize. Now B-segment CUV is the same size as 1984 midsize. So I predict the 2044 B-segment CUV will be the size of a 737

Good point... maybe the 10 speed will have staggered roll out on 2017 F-150 going to the most expensive models first... Raptor first, then other 3.5 EB, then 2.7 EB, and finally the 5.0 and 3.7 in 2018. I guess it all depends on how fast Ford can ramp up production. The original Expedition didn't have IRS. Not sure how similar it was to F-150 of that period. But I agree with you that the new one will have IRS for sure.

I mentioned that in the original thread before it went south... The assumption that Ford will commit this much capacity and capital on segments (BOF SUV and midsize pickup) that are in terminal decline, and fraught with CAFE challenges requires many leaps of faith. The more logical guess is the Ranger and Bronco are part of the new C-car platform program (as derivatives of Transit Connect or Escape). But I'm happy to be proven wrong because I think a revitalized BOF Bronco somewhat similar to Wrangler in concept is far more interesting product than another CUV.

If a F-150 crew cab is running with IRS and some sand bags in the bed would you notice it? I think there are Expedition mules running around, we just don't know it. Expedition prototypes should be on the road soon. If I'm Ford, I will be waiting for the 10 speed auto is available to launch the Expedition and Navigator... so the question is really how far along is Ford on powertrain calibration with the new transmission. 2017 Raptor is supposed to be the first 10 speed auto.

My guess is for NAFTA zone, EcoSport will be made next to Focus at Cuautitlan plant in Mexico. Fiesta may stay there too but most likely we will be getting it from Thailand.

Mondeo is D-segment so Edge is D also. Explorer would be E-segment (Ford Taurus would fall in this size too) if you measure it by size. Kuga is technically C-segment but there is a divergent path in C-segment CUVs with two distinct sizes so I'm referring it as "CD". There is no official EU designation for "CD" size vehicles - anything bigger than the average C and smaller than the average D is "CD" by virtue of its size. Ford calls its midsize car platform "CD" because it can be for C or D segment vehicles. For example, Land Rover Freelander was EUCD platform but C-segment CUV, while the previous gen Mondeo was also EUCD but D-segment sedan/wagon. The EU A-B-C-D-E vehicle size class is based on German size classification pre-EU. The countries in Southern Europe had different tax schemes based on vehicle size and engine displacements prior to EU harmonization so some cars didn't fit the German A-B-C-D-E size very well. The term "CD" was originally coined to describe mostly French and Italian sedans (e.g. Peugeot 305 and Fiat Regatta) that were literally between classic German C segment sedans (e.g. VW Jetta or Ford Escort) and D segment sedans (e.g. VW Passat or Ford Sierra).

A-segment hatchback is a quite big market in Europe with 11% of the overall new car sales in 2014 (Ford Ka, Opel Adam, Renault Twingo, Smart ForTwo, Hyundai i10, Kia Picanto, Fiat Panda, Fiat 500, Peugeot 108, Citroen C1, Toyota Aygo, VW Up, Skoda Citigo, Seat Mii) A-segment CUV not yet, hence EcoSport is not resonating with the market. But there is a lot of A-segment CUVs on the drawing board now that are due in European markets in the next year or 2 (VW Taigun+Skoda and Seat version, Renault Kwid+Nissan version, PSA+Toyota A-segment CUV project)

At 166.6" long, Renegade is the same size as the 4 door XJ Cherokee (for reals... go look it up). They even have the same 101" wheelbase. As for Compass or Patriot replacement, it will be sized between Renegade and Cherokee. There is plenty of room between Renegade and Cherokee as evident by the strong sales of Subaru XV, Hyundai Tuscon, Kia Sportage, and Mitsubishi Outlander Sport, and the pending entry of Nissan Qashqai next year. Renegade is imported from Italy so FCA has a volume issue. With Compass (likely assembled in NAFTA zone), FCA can sell as many as it can crank out. Plus it is sized appropriately for overseas markets. CUV the size of Compass is preferred in many markets outside the US over the longer Cherokee.

I think 3.0 EB will be Lincoln exclusive. This is how I see it happen: Continental will get 3.0 EB as launch vehicle. MKX will get an upgrade to 3.0 EB rather soon. The current Explorer base engine is 3.5 V6, which will go away eventually. So I see the mid-level optional engine (i.e. for non-Sport and non-Platinum models) being the 2.7 EB when the next generation shows up: base 2.3 EB, optional 2.7EB, Sport/Platinum 3.5 EB. That means Aviator will likely receive the 3.0 EB as base engine and 3.5 EB as optional engine. Similarly, the next generation Expedition will lose several hundred lbs so the base engine will probably be 2.7 EB and the 3.5 EB will be optional. This sets up Navigator to receive the 3.0 EB as base engine (3.5 EB optional). And if Ford wants to go really crazy, I'm ready for that 3.0 EB MKC hot rod...

Seems fairly obvious... Ford Europe (along with everyone else) will have to field a CUV in every size. That means we will probably see something like this: A-segment: Something based on the Figo, to replace the current EcoSport. Ford has to keep it under 4 meters long for India. We probably won't see this in the US. B-segment: Something bigger than EcoSport that can sell in developed market for a premium over Fiesta. We will see this in the US, 100% guaranteed. C-segment: Something about the size of Focus hatchback. This is a key segment that Ford Europe is not competing right now and one of the fastest growing segment. We may see this in the US. CD-segment: Something about the size of Focus wagon - next generation Kuga/Escape. I think this will become a US-lead product, rather than Ford Europe lead product. D-segment: Something about the size of Mondeo - say hello to Edge. This will continue to be a US-lead product. There maybe some opportunity for Ford to get into the premium CUV segment in Europe too with next generation Explorer.

2 door is plausible because Ford is building the vehicle in the US (so no chicken tax). But you are assuming a niche exists... Aside from the Wrangler, there is no other 2 door SUVs for sale in the US. And looking at markets outside the US, 2 door SUVs are equally unpopular. How many 2 door Prado are sold vs. 4 door? The 2 door Prado is so unpopular that Toyota actually had to give it an all new body and 4 doors and call it FJ Cruiser. And even then, it sold in relative low numbers.

The next generation of FCA C-segment cars will use SUSW platfrom, so 100 (and probably Dart) is going to be SUSW. CUSW is optimized for bigger vehicles like 200 and Cherokee, even though it came out first on the Dart - this is why Dart is a super heavy weight champion among st the C-segment sedan peer. In order for FCA to meet MPG targets for C-segment cars like 100 and Dart, they need to shed several hundred lbs for the next generation. The solution is to use the lighter SUSW platform but enlarge it to C-segment size, which is what FCA is doing for 2017 Jeep Compass and Patriot. They will be the first C-segment SUSW, follow by 2018 100.

Also selling the cargo area cap as an OEM accessory opens you up to all kinds of product liabilities. Those things are not crash rated as they are not part of the structural weight or safety cell.

Probably a ploy to boost average transaction price during the launch period. Lots of car companies do the same... this way they will have something good to say during the next quarterly earnings call.

All hail our new overlords!

Yes, it is still happening. The original Chrysler 100 is dead... it was going to be a hatchback version of Dart (it went on sale in China as Fiat Ottimo). The new Chrysler 100 will be a sedan, and it will be related to the next generation Dart.. It will take over from Dart as the main volume model in the compact car market for FCA. Dart will become performance focused like the rest of the Dodge line up.

Also Dodge Dart and Chrysler 200. And upcoming Jeep Compass and Patriot, and Chrysler 100. But remember, Fiat Compact Wide was completely re-engineered by Chrysler. It's not like they just ran with rebadged products (like ProMaster). The Tigershark 2.4 I4 and ZF 9 speed automatic didn't come from Fiat either. More to the point, Sergio delayed the next Ram and Grand Cherokee by 18 months so he can keep the Alfa project going... we don't know if those 2 cash generating products will maintain their competitiveness in 2018, a few years past their prime. Ram pickup would have been riding on the same platform for 10 years at that point.

I'm not arguing... just adding constructive comments (this will not be circular I promise ) 1. If there is a 2 door, Ford will have to really limit its availability. It will be extremely low volume. Not sure how you can justify the investment in tooling. 2. I don't see how Ford could afford two different BOF truck below F-150, one for US and one for the rest of the world. It goes opposite of what Ford has been trying to accomplish for the last few years streamlining products under a single unified global portfolio. If there is going to be a BOF truck in the US, it will be the rest of the world Ranger. Also, going smaller than T6 doesn't make any CAFE sense as I mentioned. Both Toyota and GM enlarged their rest of the world truck substantially in the US to gain footprint. Regarding the two brands rumor... I would predict the return of Mazda Navajo before I sign on to there being a Lincoln BOF SUV in the mix... And yes, if Bronco production starts in the US, it makes sense that Troller will be made next to it.

I think LA Auto Show is a good bet for the mid cycle update (and the ST or Sport). I hope it is 2.3 EB and RS AWD system... which means this is a Ford Performance vehicle. The alternative, as I noted above, is just Ford version of MKZ V6.

I really hope this is a Fusion ST but I think it is just Fusion Sport. The reason is because 2.7 Ecoboost is supposed to replace the 3.7 V6 in MKZ next year... so chances are that this is not a Ford Performance developed car, which means it won't have the ST badge.

The bottom line on FCA is that $6 billion spent on Alfa is good as gone. No reasonable industry analysts can see even a glimmer of hope for a positive return on investment. So that's the reason why it has no cash reserve, and why it has to keep the incentive flowing to move volume to generate enough cash flow to fund operations. If that $6 billion had instead gone to accelerating Jeep and Ram product development and paying down debt/building up cash reserve, FCA would not have this crisis level need to keep churning volume to generate cash. And instead, it could focus on profit margin and building improving existing vehicles - you know... like how other car companies are doing it. To say the Alfa gambit is risky is really understating it. VW wasn't short on cash when it embarked on relaunching Audi. Toyota wasn't scrimping to get by when it began the Lexus project. Even GM is hardly breaking a sweat now writing blank checks on Cadillac. FCA has no business trying to create a new Alfa Romeo from scratch when it can't even sustain the pipeline of all the replacements for existing models. Another question that FCA shareholders should asking is why Alfa Romeo development is being done in Italy when FCA's expertise in RWD cars are all in Detroit. Sergio duplicated this entire engineering team in Milan when he already had a capable team in Detroit.

Well, cars are in fact lower priority with Ford in the USA... Utilities and trucks are a lot more important to the profit margin. But that doesn't mean we will give Ford a free pass... We can reasonably infer that Fusion sales are slowing down this year because the car is 4 years old and the refresh is right around the corner. We saw similar dip in sales of Focus, Fiesta, and Explorer before the refresh. We would be having a similar discussion about Fusion's mid cycle update this time next year if sales doesn't pick up 3 or 4 month after the model hits dealer showroom. Focus on the other hand had already experienced a sales slow down before the refresh, and just as you would expect the sales to rebound, it continued to fall. My take is that Ford did too little in the refresh and failed to inject any excitement into the model. A missed opportunity to introduce the 1.5 Ecoboost engine and address the consumer rejection of the DCT, which Ford did in China and Europe. Hopefully, the arrival of Focus RS will have some halo effect on the rest of the range.

I don't think there will be a 2 door Bronco. The short wheel base creates too much CAFE headache and the market appear is limited. I don't think there will be a Bronco truck in addition to Ranger... Not enough room for both. I don't think there will be a Lincoln version of T6 SUV... Unlike Ford, Lincoln really doesn't have room for another midsize SUV, especially a BOF one that has fallen out of favor with luxury car buyers. I think there will be a CUV smaller than Escape for sale at Ford dealer in the US by 2018 or so... whether or not there is a T6 SUV. "Bronco" could refer to either vehicle in my opinion. 2018 Ford US market utility line up: C3 SWB "Bronco" C3 LWB Escape CD4 Edge T7 Everest (or "Bronco") CD6 Explorer P5 SWB Expedition P5 LWB Expedition C3 LWB MKC CD4 MKX CD6 Aviator P5 SWB Navigator P5 LWB Navigator

CNH and Fiat Industrial merged a few years ago and split off from Fiat Grouso they are not related to FCA whatsoever. Although Sergio is still sits on the Board I think. Iveco was a subsidiary of Fiat Industrial (so now part of the "new" CNH) so also nothing to do with FCA. This is the main reason why we got the FWD Fiat Ducato as Ram Promaster, instead of the more US market-appropriate RWD Iveco Daily.

Vans sales are on fire. Edge deliveries getting robust. Explorer numbers are amazing. Fusion and Escape are flat vs. last year. Focus took a summer vacation... Looks like the mid cycle update of Focus was too little too late. I waited 3 months for the numbers to flip but evidently it's not going to. Some of it is probably the cheap gas but you don't see the big drop off in sales with Corolla, Civic, or even Jetta/Golf. The lack of 1.5 Ecoboost and 6 speed auto is going to continue to haunt the Focus line. Especially when the new Civic comes out next year.