Bryan1

What gift are they giving?

Who has got the order guide?

A couple thousand F-series sales down the drain.

Thanks for the clarification, Richard and Premier.

I have read conflicting reports. "Auto companies count vehicles as sold when they are shipped from the factory to the dealer, not when they are ultimately purchased by the consumer." - NYT http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/18/business/18cnd-ford.html?pagewanted=print "Ford counts a sale when the customer drives it off the dealer lot. Chebby....when its shipped from the factory." http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/44042-how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-the-mustang/page-2 "the poster is getting two thinggs confused. GM counts the money as a sale when it is wholsalewd to a dealer. It is reported as a retail sale when the dealer reports the customer information to GM. So all the cars on a dealers lot have not been repoerted sold." http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2007/11/warning-this-piece-contains-accounting-ratios-reader-discretion-is-advised/ "GM does not sell cars to consumers. Their dealers do. The dealer is the customer of GM and GM sales are to dealers. I worked in the industry for 30 years and sales were always reported as sales to dealers, not end users." http://www.zerohedge.com/news/chinas-auto-dealers-backs-are-broken-channel-stuffing-gets-dangerous "we've told you about this many times. GM counts a "sale" as when a vehicle leaves the factory and is "sold" to a dealer… not necessarily when it is sold to an end customer." http://kevinmeyer.com/blog/2012/12/contextual-comparison/ "But remember that Ford counts sales upon shipment to the dealerships, not on dealership sales to consumers" http://seekingalpha.com/currents/post/285801 "what is not surprising is that GM management has once again resorted to the age old gimmick which never fails to provide an artificial boost to the true condition of GM car sales, i.e., Channel Stuffing." http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-02/gm-september-sales-miss-channel-stuffing-resumes "A sale is a delivery to the dealership. -- No it's not. A sale, as reported by all manufacturers on the first of every month, is a delivery to a customer. -- we're not talking abt "all manufaturers", we're simply talking about GM so, if this is true for GM and we define "customer" as "dealer", perhaps you may begin to see the point by the end of 2013" http://www.zerohedge.com/news/gm-channel-stuffing-soars-all-time-high Which is it?

For the purposes of these sales reports when do Ford, GM, Chrysler and Toyota count sales? Do they count sales when vehicles are shipped from the factory to the dealer, or when they are ultimately sold to the customer?

GM picks interim powertrain chief following dismissals linked to India troubles July 30, 2013 DETROIT -- General Motors picked James Lanzon, its top transmission engineer, to run the company's global powertrain operations on an interim basis while it searches for a permanent replacement for Sam Winegarden. Winegarden, a 44-year GM veteran who had headed the company's global engine development since 2004, was dismissed last week along with about 10 other GM employees in the United States and India, after two popular models built and sold in India were recalled because of irregularities in emission testing. Lanzon, 62, has been vice president of GM's global transmissions since 2012 and served as a key negotiator in the recent agreement between GM and Ford Motor Co. to develop 9- and 10-speed transmissions jointly. He is also a longtime GM employee. GM last week recalled 114,000 units of the Tavera SUV with 2.0- and 2.5-liter engines built between 2005 and 2013. The models are built and sold only in India. Indian media have reported that GM acknowledged that its employees cheated on emission tests on the Tavera, in some cases swapping lower-emission engines into test vehicles in order to pass inspections. http://www.autonews.com/article/20130729/OEM02/130729888/1424?cciid=internal-anhome-mostright

Like if I buy a snow plow prep package from Ford for $85. That doesn't mean it's coming with the plow...

They said the prep package is that much. It's the extra if you want the system installed.

No, I was trying to reply to someone else and the editor is going haywire. See my other post. 1900 is the max on a Ram 1500 and it's in a lousy RC base model. 1900 is pretty pathetic for a Max Payload. The same configuration in a F-150 would be 3100 lbs.

The answer is No. 1918 lbs payload is the Max Payload on a Ram 1500. http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/towing_guide/?section=light_duty The 2012 Tradesman HD 1500 had LEAF SPRINGS to give it the 3100 lbs payload. It was discontinued in 2013. The Ram now has a lousy 1918 lbs payload in a regular cab Tradesman. That's the best you can get and it's in a RC that nobody wants. Ram sent a typical Ram crewcab to the PUTC shootout with a 1000 lbs payload. http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2013/06/2013-light-duty-challenge-calculated-max-payload-and-towing.html

EBFlex, on 22 Jul 2013 - 17:56, said: "Dean, it does not matter. The assertion was made that the Ram 1500 has a max payload that is only 100 pounds more than Ford's minimum. All I was doing was correcting the record. It's very simple, can you get a Ram 1500 with a payload greater than 1900 pounds? The answer is yes." The answer is NO.

I have to question their fuel economy testing for pickup trucks. Every truck. Every engine. Gets the same fuel economy. Every time. 15 mpg. F-150: 15 mpg overall. (Both engines!) http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/ford/f-150.htm Toyota Tundra: 15 mpg overall. Nissan Frontier: 15 mpg overall. Honda Ridgeline: 15 mpg overall. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/01/fuel-economy-vs-performance/index.htm Ram: 15 mpg overall. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/07/16/ram-1500-best-truck-consumer-reports-says/2519369/ "The publication says it got "a class-leading 15 mpg overall in CR's own fuel economy tests." Class leading?

What problem? I won't be cheering if one truck will be lighter. Lightness doesn't mean it is better. In the 08 shootout Ford won the split mule traction test because it was heavier. Ford has a bigger crewcab which is heavier but has more room. How about crash tests? The extra weight may help during a crash and Ford has been a top safety pick. Chevy never has been good in the crash tests. How does a lighter truck handle when it tows? Quality of the parts? If is lighter but isn't as durable is that to be cheered? Fuel econ. Ford had a heavier truck and better mpg up until this model year. I don't see what the Ford weight problem is and I won't be cheering massive weight reductions in a vacuum. It matters what the end results are.

Ram getting 15 mpg in their own testing is not class leading. The 2013 F-150 also got 15 mpg in their testing. They don't even know what their own testing says.

I know some people like to think a diesel F-150 is a near certainty, but what was stated here by Ford means that nothing has changed from what Ford has been saying for 5 years. The cost difference negates the fuel economy advantage in a half-ton and Ecoboost is better. What I put no stock in is the F-150 getting a diesel anytime soon. edit: typo

Ford Says "No" to F-150 Diesel, Published: 07/08/2013 - by Ed Hellwig, Executive Editor Just the Facts: Ford says the payback time for a diesel F-150 is too long. DEARBORN, Michigan — Ford officials, speaking at a press event at the company's development center, said there are no plans to build a diesel-powered F-150 anytime soon. "We don't see the dynamics for an F-150 diesel right now," said Raj Nair, Ford's group vice president of global product development. "If you go through the math, your payback is much longer and consumers are smart enough to know that." http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/ford-says-no-to-f-150-diesel-but-chrysler-says-ram-1500-diesel-makes-sense.html

2014 GM 5.3 4x4 23.1 mpg 2013 F-150 EB 4x4 22.3 mpg http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2013/06/2013-light-duty-challenge-mileage-drive.html Thousands less than a diesel, use cheaper fuel, no extra cost of def, and cheaper maintenance.

Look for GM and Ford to pick up more HD buyers as Ram goes to rear coils on the 3/4 tons. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/06/2014-ram-25003500-hd-first-look.html

It's pretty much useless when you factor in the the more expensive fuel/maintence, the almost $3000 over the Hemi, and the low payloads (1000 lbs in the last PUTC shootout). At the end of the day you may save around $150 a year so that divided by $2850. means 19 years to break even. It's not saving you anything and as Richard stated you're not hauling more with the coils. For resale, the best resale diesel is the Ford F-350 at 48.5% of original cost. The F-150 which doesn't have a diesel has a resale of 48.6%. So the resale is a wash and you're just spending more on the diesel to begin with. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/04/which-pickups-hold-their-value-best/comments/page/2/

No because they hate full-sizes and/or half-tons. I have not seen one comment in support of it from a legimate buyer.

I'm noticing a lot of that in the comments on pickuptrucks.com Pro diesel people who hate full-size/half-ton trucks are coming out in support.

Very cool.

It's not a tumor! Chrysler now says it will perform a "customer service action." • Recalled and "customer service" Jeeps with factory-installed hitch assemblies, or those from Chrysler's parts unit, Mopar, will be inspected by dealers and be pronounced OK without changes if the hitch is in good shape. • The Jeeps in either group inspected and found to have non-Chrysler hitches will get Mopar replacement hitches installed free. • Recalled Jeeps without no hitch (USA Today grammar) will get Mopar hitches installed free, but "customer service" Jeeps without hitches do not get them free. Chrysler wins cut from feds, recalls 1.56 million Jeeps http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/06/18/chrysler-changes-mind-recalls-jeeps-government-sought/2434955/

5.0 4x2 vs EB 4x4 in PUTC shootouts 2011 $30k shootout 5.0 Regular Cab 4x2 3.55 Standard Tow: 21.2 mpg unloaded (they didn't test loaded) 2013 Light duty challenge EcoBoost SuperCrew 4x4 3.73 Max Tow: 22.3 mpg