dds010

In YOUR OPINION, once again, this is comical. Now you may not like the Escalade front end treatment, and I don’t particularly like it myself, but to say that it doesn’t have PRESENCE is just disingenuous, that’s the MAIN thing is has for better or worse and it’s easily identifiable for what it is and that’s the point I was trying to make. You need brand identities and whether you liked them or not, the double DRL were unique. In daylight or nighttime, when you see a Escalade or a Genesis, you IMMEDIATELY KNOW WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING AT FOR BETTER OR WORSE. Now look at the refreshed Navi headlight elements and you don’t know what particular vehicle it may be and Combine that with a grille that’s also not distinct furthermore, look at this Chinese nautilus and the zephyr, when the average person sees them, THEY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT KIND OF VEHICLE THE LOOKING AT, and that’s a major issue

And this is where these forums become very muddled. You say YOU don’t know anyone that likes them. The Escalade leads this segment in sales two fold, they have a V model that none of the other BOF makes can compete with and it essentially is synonymous with this segment BUT yet because you yourself don’t like it, you’ve allowed that to cloud your judgment SO MUCH to the point that you state that you don’t know anyone that likes it. Lol a vehicle that sales almost as much as all the competitors combined, largely based off its engine and its styling (because Navi has pretty much always been a better functional SUV) and yet you think skewed “people I know” mind frame holds merit? PRICELESS that’s prob the exact mindset of ford executives that have allowed Lincoln to sit second fiddle since the 60s

The point I was making is that those double DRL, whether to your liking or not, was a unique easily identifiable element and with a brand with almost zero hallmark or unique design traits since the suicide door continentals or yore, when they finally struck somewhat gold with the 2k18 Navigator, the double DRLs should have been a element that they went forward with. look at the acclaim Escalade front lighting elements get. Look at the acclaim that the new genesis models get for their lighting designs. NOW LOOLAT HOW EASILY IDENTIFIABLE AND UNIQUE BOTH ARE: THATS what I’m talking about. Now look at the updated headlights, there’s literally nothing undistinguishable about them from other vehicles

Off topic but I find it a blunder that Lincoln didn’t captioize off of the 2018-2021 Navigators double DRL design motif. They “slimmed down” the headlights and took away the double DRL which was on of it distinguishing features. Whether you noticed the car or not, the big double DRL made it instantly recognizable as the navigator and that should have spread through the lineup A la Cadillac with the huge vertical DRL from Escalade or the Double white/amber DRL in Genesis models. with such few achievements in recent memory, you’d think they would take a lil element like the double DRL and take advantage of it it’s like no one in their company thinks of things like this. I remember about 6-7 years ago I was posting how it’s ridiculous that they have sync and ecoboost badging/branding on their vehicles and and even people of this site were giving me a hard time as if I was crazy

I hear everything you said, and you’re not wrong. thing is, y’all have to stop saying Caddy and GM and this other company does and doesn’t do when it relates to the Navi. Lincoln IS NOT in the position. That Caddy is I . The things that they can get away with (no mid cycle updates/same 6.2 output) Lincoln CANT. Lincoln is playing CATCH UP. Yes the hot a home run with the New Navi, but the Escalade had 15 YEARS of market dominance. When you’re playing catch up, you don’t just take a rest break once you’ve closed the distance by higher performance model, I’m talking about have a comp to the impending higher performance Escalade: that’s FIRST. Secondly, the GT Aviator LITERALLY has more hours/tq than the brands FLAGSHIP; do you not see a problem with that? I understand the limitations with the center screen considering the horizontal dash theme BUT, no augmentation in the UI AND it’s not expanded?, for the “should be” (we know the F Series/Stang are the real flagships) flagship of the ENTIRE Ford COMPANY?…and yes I hear that a supposed new model is on the horizon but I just want Lincoln to be clear leaders in SOMETHING

Changes look great in person, ESP that rear end. They still should have just made the grille a super larger opening instead of that chrome appendage part at the bottom with seeing the Expy updates. It’s clear that Ford focused much more on it than the Navi and that’s the exact problem that Lincoln has. no virtual nav no performance model same size UI screen smaller center screen than Expy same engine output as available in expy, for the FLAGSHIP of your luxury brand?

I know where it’s built and everything else you said. It’s STILL an JAPANESE company which is why it’s hilarious. To buy a Japanese truck but THEN plaster American flags and memorabilia on the truck makes no sense, because you coulda bought……well ya know: a AMERICAN truck and to add to the fact that the big 3 make pickups (whatever brand allegence you have) that are vastly better

I see they literally stole the center lid design from the Navigator, I guess that’s why Toyota was testing the tundra along side a Navi. I swear it’s the funniest thing when I see 5’6” dudes JUMP (not hop lol) down out of Tundras that have American stickers plastered all over them: AS they drive their JAPANESE truck, downright hilarious. And it’s even funnier considering that the Big 3 make trucks that are so above and beyond anything else that it’s almost idiotic to choose a tundra over them The Wagooner also stole the console design and other interior aspects from the Navi.

Oh by no way am I saying that MB just wiped the slate clean with the Sclass update. Thing is, the Sclass is their flagship, and with that, every Generation it users in the direction for the entire brand as WELL as ushering in new tech features and leading in its SEGMENT, a segment that they’ve OWNED for at least 30 years. If anything, they ALONG with Ford (Fseries) are the ones who could get away with “just waiting” and having minor updates because they have that built in cache and market LEAD, but in Lincoln’s case, they’ve been at the bottom of the segment and been getting trounced by the Escalade in sales and ATPs and just when they’re catching up, all of a sudden there’s a severely minor update. Yes the IDEAL thing would be to introduce minor styling tweaks BUT they are not in a IDEAL situation, they’re playing catch up. And of course GM can go without updating the Escalade, they are afforded that luxury because of market DOMINANCE. Simple and plain. YES a lot of these changes would have cost money esp compared to a typical MCE, BUT when you’re just getting back on the radar, you have to do certain things to STAY THERE. The interior is STILL GREATLY STYLED, BUT when you look at a Escalade with OLED 38” curved display/augmented reality or the horrendous Wagooner with its gazillion screens and then consider the Navi still has the same sized digital tach that lacks augmentation and isn’t very customizable/ no soft close doors/no night vision/no air suspension/ no higher output versions.

The screen is the only thing I see should have caused a lot of problems because there’s really no excuse why the Aviator GT has Loads more power than the Navis 3.5. There’s no excuse for the Navi losing power even if a powerboost was planned or not. No excuse for no air suspension/no soft close doors, and def no excuse for the digital tach to no be enlarged and gain 3D navigation

All that may be true, but like I said, do you ever see MB do minor update/stand pat/wait couple years with their SClass, but yet, you ever seen FORD do that with the F150, and the F150 has led its segment in every imaginable way for over 30 years, but the same damn company finally catches up with Caddy in product image and they do minor updates when Caddy just launched a completely new product as will also introduce a hotter version. See it’s that train of thought that got Lincoln and the Navigator buried under the dirt in the first place Youve been losing mightly (in sales #s and ATPs) for almost 15years and when you finally start catching up you instantly want to take a water break?, but the same company who wipes the floor in pickup sales NEVER EVER rest, see any correlation?

Was just thinking to myself: The fact that Ford sees no problem with the Aviator Grand Touring having vastly more power than the luxury arms (we know the F150 & Mustang are the REAL company flagships) flagship vehicle is BEYOND laughable. I mean it’s already a shame that the best vehicle that your lux division makes plays 2nd and 3rd fiddle to your mainstreams brands pickup and pony car, but to also be outpowered by smaller vehicles in your own lineup is BAD. heck, you have the Expy getting the 15inch screen from Lightning and MachE, while the Navigator get 13.2 inch. Mean to tell me the couldn’t flip 15inch screen horizontally and widen the digital tach?..and that along with no 3.5 power bump OR powerboost option no soft close doors no 30 way seats for 2nd row no fully customizable/ enlarged center UI/screen with 3D maps Nightvision now Keep in mind that The Escalade has been rumored to be getting an engine higher output/high performance model. Even with the introduction of electric vehicles, Ford still doesn’t seem intent on Lincoln truly be the best they can be. These mild updates work in segment that are dead end BUT no matter how limited the number are, the full-size luxury SUV segment is a money PRINTER, and when you’ve (Lincoln) finally caught up, you don’t sit there and do minor updates while waiting model years on new product. you ever see MB standing pat and waiting for things for the Sclass? Heck no! HELL do you ever ever see Ford minor updating or standing pat with the F150? HE** NO!…and just that “minor update, wait 2 more years” mindset is exactly why I’m stil concerned about Lincoln

Hopefully, go out with a Bang for the ice. Raptor R engine in a coach door 25th Anniversary Navigator would be knocking on Rolls Royce door no matter if it cost $120 Plus. It’ll be a signal bearer for the entire Lincoln brand

With Grand Touring Aviator basically featuring 500hp, it’s criminal for the Navi, which is the Flagship of the entire Ford company, to have only 440hp

Yeah, hopefully another power train option will be introduced/announced close to job 1. When I saw the 3.5 lose 10hp, I immediately suspected Ford was sandbagging the 3.5 to give the powerboost option a secure lead in HP and TQ considering the powerboost is already 430HP in F-150, I’d suspect they want the Navi at near 500HP .