Bob Rosadini

Google Blenheim- Gilboa Power Station. This is a power plant in upstate NY that has two large water reservoirs high above the power plant. During low demand periods water is pum ped up to these reservoirs. During high demand periods, water gravity feeds the turbines below generating power.

Thx- I was about to comment on these "small package" units..not quite sure of proper name but I thought the key benefit was these were not a long lead time project vs the time it would take to bring a large scale nuke on line.

Well Rick how about this from a friend who lives in the Granite State.... "That was something to watch. l laugh at the EVs recharging in Hooksett NH at the welcome center on 93. Some of the locals have found out they can reach over the guard rail from Rt 3A. They back up to the rail and pull the cord around to plug it in. The BEST part of it is the way they have to park! Sitting there plugged in looking straight at Merrimack Station. The coal fired PSNH plant a mile away making the electricity!! LMAO! Can't make it up Bob."................

Amen..not sure what DeanH your hands on experience is but I have a lot of faith in that experience..as I do with Ice Capades experience...he had a lot of dealership experience at a large dealership..where as a high school kid I would go to their back lot that was not secure and fire up a two stick T-950 Super Duty that they would leave the keys in-always respectfully I might add being very careful to not do anything to that truck that might be harmful ? In any case S'Svt, to your point I don't think Toyota was a "johnny come lately" to the EV's "at a measured pace " approach. I can recall reading quite some time ago how Mr. Toyoda was outspoken in his position that the ultimate answer involved a broad offering of all forms of power...ICE, Hybreds. etc. Toyota's efforts to ramp up battery production makes sense at a measured pace. I think Farley went overboard in his initial EV position to appeal to the press and the public. If I were a dealer I would in fact have a concern where my supplier was going.

On this subject I would have to believe that Farley's very heavy handed (IMO) approach to pushing a Tesla sales model has a lot to do with this attitude. Also some of his other views..like jumping into Formula One...May sound good to the more affluent buyer, but to "JOE six pack"..a handle desecrated by Joe biden?...the dealer in Buffalo probably says .."WTF"? Also his absolute immediate embrace of EV's vs Toyota's very measured approach has I'm sure many dealers saying.."told you so." Finally the Ford Pro push as I see it does NOT embrace what the commercial market is. To ask a dealer to install 14' overhead bay doors when you only see Ford pushing light trucks and Transits I think fosters a sense that they are clueless. I just noticed a nice Ford ad finally stressing "Fords at work". But in that footage, what do we see? Nothing but pick ups! Why wouldn't you show a dirty F-750 dump truck..or a 650 with a 24' box delivering an appliance to a home owner...oops...different advertising budget, can't have that!. Many of the older dealers probably have memories of Ford's big investment in heavy trucks (HN-80)- then pulling the plug a little more than a year after its introduction..ancient history I know, but still history.

Isn't 650/750 on going as P708?

On that same thought, is the land value of any of these facilities such that it makes sense to close?? And any new plant on lesser cost land could be built with automation efficiencies in mind???

one was enough ?for me

Agree JP but as I have said before, 7.3 has BETTER numbers than the old 477 Super Duty...and there were plenty of those in T950 tandems in the old days. The F-600 is a nice alternative to a 350. But it is not a medium duty truck that I would want to own (or drive) if I had to pull my 410 Deere TLB behind my 6-8 yd dump truck

Yes ...Like I said..doesn't bode well ...means more of same. And with all the comments of demise of diesels in medium duty, you would think with the 7.3 they would be enhancing the 650/750 "package" but I guess that doesn't fit the "Ford Pro" definition. I've beat this dead horse before...No air brake option with 7.3 power. They are clueless IMO. There is a big class of buyers that are in class 6 and 7 who pull trailers..as in tag trailers. So they can't get a diesel..so they get a gas engine...so Ford says.."no problem, you can buy a 750 with a 7.3 and electric brakes will work just fine when you are pulling your very expensive loader-backhoe."

Good point but I don't think ICE production will be ARTIFICIALLY extended, I just think the market will extend it because that is what the market will dictate. I believe many people recognize the false economy that is being used to sell electrification. To say nothing of our tax dollars paying for it.

I've had that same thought..or question. Focusing on the 2billion for OAP, a lot of money and focusing on my favorite subject, medium duty, a bit disappointing to read "medium truck will continue". That doesn't bode well if that translates to "more of the same". Now if engineering/design is NOT in that number maybe there is hope that a future exists for the medium segment. I don't see how Ford can be a real player in commercial without paying attention to that segment. Medium is a natural progression for so many businesses. You see a start up commercial venture and they have vans, then step vans and "bigger is better" takes over and they are into24' box trucks. Amazon is a good example..at least in this area. I'm seeing more and more Hino conventionals wearing Prime colors.

Yes and what is worth noting is OAP is getting the biggest chunk 2.1 billion. Now I know a "new EV Van" will not be petty cash but hopefully there will be a few bucks for mediums. Also if you look at what the Union posted, they refer to the 2.1 B but also reference an 8B number for OAP. I have to say, talk about mixed signals when it comes to EV's. At least that is what I see. I saw something the other day that was attributed to some international think tank that basically said the stated electrification goals are in a word unattainable given the TOTAL cost that must be addressed. I'll try to find it.

OAP gets biggest investment, 2.1bil. Hopefully a good chunk of that will be on a true medium duty upgrade-class 6, 7.

ah forgot about that..before you went into the tent after a hard hit.

A given! Bad move on Bill's part.

Agree..I did not realize that was a part of the package...then again maybe mgmt thinks the union would have a mutiny if it decided to pull "survivors" out on the street. In any case, with labor cost going up so much. I would think any facility that is not at a high utilization rate will be suspect. Then add the long term..note long term...picture when EV's finally make sense and can stand on their own without subsidies. what does that mean as far as engines, transmissions etc. That is the point, if shrewd on union's part, dumb on Ford's.

with covered employees? Supervisors yes, but guys in the barganing unit?

Both TT and your comment valid. I see more and more Hino and Isuzu class 5/6 's running around. There IS a market IMO for a class 5-7 LCF. Make the unskilled "driver" more productive instead of pushing 60" of hood in front of him. I've probably commented before on this but when Ford had a 550 E series with a solid front axle a dealer friend finally got a non Ford account to try a couple..they loved them then Ford pulls the plug.

Fuzzy ..isn't that wishful thinking?? Ford can offer a package but that only gets the senior guys out. And I'm sure some of them are the sandbaggers you want to see gone, but my guess would be there are more junior guys with a "I don't give a shit" attitude who are the problem. And where will these slugs get a job with the pay and beni's Ford has. They are in fat city! Next time around Ford should push for more defined classifications that truly require skills. Fair that these guys get 40 bucks...but someone who pulls two parts out of a bin, sticks them in a valve body and pushes it down the line? 20 bucks! If you have such skill/difficulty classifications let me know

The sad fact is if what I read is correct, the vote for the top dog position for the first time was a popular vote of the total UAW membership vs I guess a vote by regional UAW brass?? That being the case the voter turnout was 11%! You can bet Fain had organized the radicals and too many reasonable guys stayed home. Sad lesson unless the idiots are challenged everyday on the line, at lunch, in the locker room, the ignorant prevail as I see it.

And I stopped my trial?

Ice, you make some good points but like I said in another post, watch what happens now to minimize that labor cost disadvantage. 10 years ago grocery store checkout people were old dudes like me, young kids or part timers earning extra money. Today a lot of the big chains are organized...and I usually go to the self check out...quick, swipe my points earning card, and I'm gone.

Detrimental in the sense with such high labor costs vs the Toyotas, Hondas, Kias etc how can you minimize that disadvantage? -Invest in more automation -increase preassembled components. - make design changes to simplify assembly process -eliminate marginal products -develop JVs such as Bluediamond etc Bottom line with no cost spread or minimal between senior guys at top rate and junior guys that much closer to the top vs old extended progression rates incentive to cut manpower is there..seniority list is a bitch!

Yah think?????? take it to the bank!