Bob Rosadini

I would say its just a dispute between two business partners. I would think, both have a mutual interest in the ongoing success of their relationship. Ford is International's largest engine "customer". Their joint venture truck plant in Escobedo Mexico, (Bluediamond), builds F-650/750 and the LCF which is sold with both Ford and International badges. While any court action is never a good thing-beyond the expense of it all- if there is no good dispute resolution language in their partnership, then perhaps the legal system is the only way out. And if my memory serves me right, this isn't the first time they have battled in court. Did they not have a major issue over the cost of an International engine plant in Alabama? Again, not a good thing, but as the bumpersticker says..."Shit Happens!"

Let me try this again. I did a post a couple of weeks ago in the Ford Discussion Forum, but hopefully this will get some more attention. My bitch centers on the embarassing F-150 ad in which a most improbable scene is featured in which a bunch of glamor boys-oh yes they ARE wearing hardhats!- are tossing broken concretechunks into the back of a 150 Lariat. Mind you, this is not a "Handy Andy" do it your self site but a big commercial building site. Anyone who knows trucks HAS to snicker at this kiddy stuff bullshit. Compare this nonsense with the latest Toyota Tundra spots in which they focus on the tough componentry of the truck. No phony hairdresser actors- the truck and its components are featured. Likewise the GMC adds feature a cutaway truck and the highlights are the vehicle's componentry.- not some slick actors making believe they are workers. Ford marketers are clueless- yeah I know -the 150 is the no. 1 seller. BUT the market is changing- the yuppies will not be the truck buyers as the declinning sales stats are showing. The true commercial buyer however will still be there. Who is doing a better job of appealing to that customer base? It sure as hell isn't Ford.

Range, Thx for post. Looks like some good news and some news that makes no sense. The deletion of the Power Stroke and the addition of the bigger Cummins with its higher HP ratings is good. Can't understand the deletion of the front frame extension or the deletion of the fixed grill. When they announced the 14,000 lb. axle, I thought that would be good news for increased municipal sales (snow plows) Doesn't make sense that they would then delete the fixed grill. If they were going to do that, they would have to at least offer an access door in ther tilt hood to check fluids. Doesn't look like they have that. so if you have anykind of front mou nted equipment, just how DO you check the fluids. They make no sense.

Amen. Now if they will continue on with the heavier commercial version. It won't kill Econoline sales- just take them away from the DCX Sprinter. As for those comments about the sales potential of this light version, I would agree- what competition would it really have? And if it were availabel with any of those Euro diesels, not a home run but a grand slam. PS it was about 4 years ago that I saw a Transit in service for DHL. I talked to the young kid driving it and he didn't know much about it- only that it was a test program. Surprisingly, it was a standard shift at that. About a month after that, I pulled up along side another one (unmarked) at a traffic light- in a 10 second conversation, the guy driving said "it belonged to Ford".

Efficiency matters to a lot of us that actually use trucks as trucks. Not only do we not want hundreds of extra pounds as in the latest F-150, we also need a bed configuration that is usable. I know the argument that the higher sides hold more. I have owned F-150 trucks since the early 80's and have never had a need to put anything in them anywhere close to the top of the bedrails. In my mind, these trucks are over-engineered without any concept as to how the normal Ford customer actually uses them. And, then we have the mostly neglected Ranger as an option. You guys are right on. One of my kids has an 05 150 Crew Cab. The high sides are a waste. Just how often do you really need or use that extra "freeboard"? Not often in my book. But, slinging tools or anything else over the side? Happens all the time. My guess is at some point, corporate insurance departments will start identifying the high sided 150 as a source of personal injuries. Then Ford will have a ver good reason to abandone the "look" in favor of functionality. By the way, my 04 Ranger FX is perfect regarding bed height. Rather use it anytime over the 150 when it comes to hauling something.

Just thinking out loud. With International's financial dificulties, I was thinking as Ford is International's biggest engine customer, they should agree to put the DT-466 in the 650/750. Even if only the lower HP versions. I think such a combination would sell very well but the International dealers would revolt. My answer to that would be to build a 450/550 with an International badge and let the International dealers have that. Key question is, how many additional 450/550's a year could KTP handle? Obviously it would cannibalize some Ford 450/550 sales but I would bet there would be a significant net gain. And as for 650/750? Home run. Not everyone wants a multiplex wired Iternational but a 650/750 with a DT-466? A solid International chassis with a proven Ford cab structure and a decent price, it just might sell. Another point. Sterling will soon be selling Dodge one ton's badged as Sterlings. And the Sterling dealers really have to be hurting as DCX has totally screwed that franchise in my book as their sales are nothing like they were in the old Ford days. Plus DCX turned around and gave the franchise to select Freightliner dealers- Nothing like fewer sales through more dealers to piss someone off. so how about it KTP-got room to build some "International 450/550s?

Edstock Good points- Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what direction the ship is headed in when you take a look at the track records of the new "movers and shakers". They (Kuz and Mul) both understand benefits of shared components- to a point. I just hope they also understand that there are plenty of people out there who still want a RWD!

Well as the owner of an 07 CV Sport that is pushing 8000 miles in Two months I would say great job STAP and I sure as hell hope you get a new RWD to build. (Thank you Ute, Topgun etc) And I should also say that CAP did a great job on my no 2 son's 06 Freestyle Limited, Norfolk did a great job on my no 1 son's 05 150 crewcab, LAP did a great job on the wife's 04 Explorer, and Twin Cities did a great job on my 04 Ranger. Only wish I could say KTP did a great job on my 07 LT-9000 but thanks to Nasser and Trotman I can't. In any case, "give a shit guys" because what you do does matter. And satisfied owners like me help sell more vehicles that you can build in the future.

. Ahh, Jac the Knife, can you smell what the Kuz is cookin? G48- Just what do you mean by the above? From what I get out of the Det News article on Kuzak, This guy makes too much sense to infer that there is anything remotely similar to Jac's plan vs this guys. In any case, good post and it sounds like you have some good inside info. As for me, I bought some more shares today. When someone talks about eliminating duplicated effort, and coming up with a flatter org chart, it makes me think there is hope. And I voted today with my wallet. When Mullaly came on board I felt this guy would make things happen. Looks like he is.

Blueblood. All the motor options you refer to are nice but I'd be happy with your last paragraph. Checkout the Explorer/Mustang thread in this forum. Lots of good points raised there. Biker 16- I hope you are correct. If its one thing I believe Ford has learned, I do believe that commonality of components/platforms will rule. And Mullaly with his egineering background will not be disuaded by those who fail to recognize the benefits of getting the most out of every component/powertrain/system that is built. Oh- one other thing. My 07 Sport with its 3.25 gears is amazing. It will upshift into 4th, and if you are not heavy footed, will gradually accelerate without dowshifting. Can't believe the torque the 4.6 has. My old 2000 had 3.55 rears and it would not lug down the way the new one will. What an improvement though a five speed would make, never mind a six! Any old truck drivers out there? Kind of like driving a Maxidyne!

I guess no one else see's the significance in May's comment about the need for a RWD platform for "enthisiasts". I think this is a significant statement coming from the guy who is the design czar. The 64 dollar question is, when do we see something. Interesting to note that while this guy makes such a public statement, none of the recent comments in other Ford releases about upcoming products say anything about a RWD platform--Or did I miss something?

Well today's Detroit News has a story on the "rebirth of the sedan". Not exactly news to most people but lo and behold!- J Mays is quoted as saying to get the sedan buyer you have to........."1. Appeal to enthusiasts looking for classic RWDs and 2, Work the rest of the crowd looking for an attractive, efficient car". OK J, As for item 2, looks like its mission acomplished with the Fusion and its variants. As for No 1., how much longer do we hold our breath? And by the way, I have an 07 CV Sport. Black on black, put a set of Hella fogs in the lower fascia and replaced the mufflers with a set of Flowmaster 40's. I love the car. BUT, its hardly state of the art with its 4 speed 4.6. I bought it because I'm loyal and my last one (41G) has 216,000 on it and one of my kids has it as his "commuter"- bullet proof. I'm afraid if you don't do something soon the "enthusiast" market you talk about is NOT going to be driving Fords- and guys like me are a minority. Loyalty will only get you so far.

Joe, Hate to say it but 7Mary is correct on Hino's sales. 9 mos ytd, class 7, Hino-1.08 %, GM/Chev 9.94%, Ford 6.76%. Class 6, Hino6.76%, GM/Chev 5.36%, Ford 23.44%. In class 6 Ford is second only to International with 37.7% Now Mary, as to your comment on big Fords, I assume you speak from experience. So do I. I've had as many as 1000 pieces of heavy equipment to worry about at any one time and like I've said, I bought my share of big Fords. Did the arm rests fall off? yep. Did the frames ever break- never! And I'm talking about 100,000 lbs in Mass and RI on 5 axles! - actually with a tolerance that put them at 104 and 106,000. Cheap fleet trucks? Yes - thats what its all about- most bang for the buck, And while ford was building Louisvilles at KTP, they had usually around 8 to 10 % of class 8 and close to 25-28% of class 7! Remember when Mercedes stole the business from Ford, Freightliners Jim Hebe was quoted as saying "best vocational truck built"! I would agree, Not a "St Petermobile, not a "Kenworthy"- but again- a lot of bang for the buck. And by the way, that 8/10% and 25/28% under Ford, has shrunk to 5/6% ,3/4% respectively under the Sterling flag. Plus they gave the franchise in many areas to Freightliner dealers as well. Drastically reduced sales through more dealers. Think there aren't some pissed off former Ford dealers? Last point on 650/750. An International chassis and a Ford cab that has been through millions of miles in 250-550 service. Plus, if you don't like multiplex wiring its a better choice then International. Again I say, biggest problem is they are clueless marketers.

So your point is, pay for whatever bullshit you want because the smart buyer knows better???????? I hope that is not where my dividends are being pissed away. In any case, appreciate your perspective. I'm one guy though who put his name on a good number of purchase orders for big Fords, been to KTP at Ford's expense, and shake my head at the way Ford has given the business away And before you or anyone else says...."who cares, its not a core business", you better explain that to Toyota as their Hino program will be gathering momentum very quickly. As always, my opinion and a buck seventy will get you a medium in Dunkin Donuts- or should I say for you "poseurs",my opinion and what?- 3 bucks?- will get you a latte in Starbucks!

Is it me, or do others think that some changes have to be made as far as Ford's truck marketing goes? There is no doubt the "truck wars" will be heating up. Toyota could put a set of nice wheels on a milk crate and it would get rave reviews. GM has a great new campaign going for the new Silverado that is catchy and plays to one's sense of nostalgia with the old Chevys depicted in various scenes. And what does Ford do? A bunch of Madison Avenue pretty boys tossing broken concrete into the back of a glittzy 150 at a construction site- ridiculous or should I say embarrassing? Why do they dump on the intelligence of the real truck buyer? What is the likelihbood of a truck like that being loaded with broken concrete at a large construction site- by a bunch of hairdressers at that! Get real- what do you suppose the typical potential buyers are thinking as they watch that ad at their local bar? I say they snicker then shake their heads. Ford is the commercial truck of choice- for now anyway. show them in real scenes- not phony Hollywood settings that are choreographed by people who are clueless. How about a 150 service truck parked next to a Cat that is being worked on. Want a glitzy truck in the shot? Fine the "owner" drives up in a Lariat but show the "truck" in its real environment. And while you are at it, Why not have a 650 or a 750 cruise by in the background- bigger Fords help sell smaller ones. And speaking of dumb ass marketing, for about a year now, Ford runs an ad in construction industry periodicals that shows a 750 dump- with the tailgate release handle on the curb side! If I have to explain that to you, then you probably are a hairdreesser. And speaking of that ad, the dump body that is mounted on the 750 is a cheap piece of crap with a two bit cab protector. GMC by contrast has been running a medium duty add featuring a GM with a rugged dump box complete with load cover etc. Their ad says "we are truck people". The Ford ad says- "we don't know shit about trucks but this is what we are assigned to do for now". Last point, Ford blows money on ads run by Ford Fleet as well as Commercial Truck. At least I believe they are two separate sales entities- Wake up Mullaly! Duplicated effort by people who in my mind are clueless- in particular the Ford Fleet types. If you are a truck guy, I'm sure you will get my point. if you are not a truck guy- flame away!

[ I just read another very negative review of the Edge in the latest issues of Automobile magazine, essentially panning it as a bad example of 'business as usual' at Ford. Keep in mind, Automobile is run by a woman who thought Jac the Knife was the greatest and was screwed by Ford. So much for Automobile's credibility!

IMO, two people killed the Taurus. Trotman and his evil son, Jac the Knife. Trotman I believe was responsible for the "Ovoid" look- anyone can correct me if I'm wrong but I remember when Business Week ran a story on him that indicated he made them go back to the drawing board to further enhance the ugly round "bottom feeder" look. (bottom feeder as in Carp, Catfish or Sucker) Car went from attractive to ugly. And Jac? Did he not de -content the car? I had a 94 LX- Great car, ABS 4 wheel discs, more courtesy lights then you could count. Plus it was good looking. I put 174,000 miles on it before the cast iron termites got to the 3.8 heads. the 96's had none of that stuff- 4 wheel discs on wagons only and none of the other ginger bread. Having said that, once they got rid of the ugly ovid look it wasn't bad looking for last couple of years- could just have stood some upgrades in the content area - like brakes, even if for no other reason then the PERCEPTION that 4 wheel discs have to be better the Disc/drums. Saddest thing to me is you take a trained workforce, and a fully depreciated plant,and throw them out the window while Hyundai announces they are going to build a new plant from scratch!

Just out of curiosity, did they have any real "Work Trucks"?- ie 450/550/650/750? And I'm not talking about a 650 "pickup" set up to pull a boat trailer.

Well Topgun, Ute and the rest of you STAP folks my black on charcoal 07 Sport finally came in and I picked it up Tuesday. Car is outstanding or as the kids would say- "awsome". Had a set of Flowmaster 40's installed yesterday and the sound is just right- not too loud for an old bastard like me but loud enough to let you know its a V-8! Topgun- finish is great- maybe its because its got your signature in the trunk? This car is one hell of a value. As a stockholder it pisses me off that they are that braindead that they don't do something with it. I've got a set of Hella fogs I'm putting on this weekend that fit perfectly in the frontscia openings. The tweaked exhaust tone- thats no cost. Maybe an extra gauge package. Wouldn't take much to change the image of this car. So again, STAP, my last one was great (215,000) and I know this one will be too. Hopefully with the Town Car added to your mix, the Boeing guy will have some new views on what makes sense. He is not a car guy but I'm hopeful he has brains and the business savy to do what makes sense. Thanks again! Bob PS- When people say .."What IS that?",you know it looks good! Panthers forever!

Read Dan Howes story in today's Detroit News (www.detnews.com). He sums the guy up best when he says...."More Eddie Bauer then Savile Row, more Midwestern then Manhattan, and more likely to roam the product development center then work Wall Street". That makes me feel good. Talk about a 180 from Jac the Knife? As matter of fact I can remember I believe a Business Week story that touted Jac when he first came on the scene because of his taste in Savile Row suits! Enough to make you puke! This guy has personality, a hell of an education, and a proven track record. Just wish I bought a few more share a few weeks ago when it was around 6 bucks! :happy feet:

Topgun/Ute- Thx again guys-I'll keep you posted- Bob

Joe, I can't imagine stretching anything without a frame. Bob

Topgun, Again I can't tell you what a kick it has been to follow your response (and UTES) to my initial post. In this day and age of an impersonal operation as huge as an assembly plant to have a couple of guys show any interest as you guys have, has been a treat. Many people will hear this story and see your "mark" on the trunk lid. I will keep you and your fellow workers posted when the car comes in. Bob

Topgun/Ute You guys are too much! I didn't get this much attention when I bought 20 Ford trucks at one time!

HAH! I guess we Ford guys feast on negativity. I did a post on Toyota's troubles and as of this minute, it has about half the traffic as this thread! Plus, the thread gets highjacked by guys talking about the price of gas! So here we are- I assume a group of Ford employees, annuitants and enthusiasts, and what do we focus on? The negative.