objectsinmirror Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ladies and gentlemen...we are and HAVE BEEN working under the rules of the Toyota Production System Playbook...get ready to be put on teams (if you aren't already) that are responsible for continous improvement of certain predefined sectors. Each team will be rewarded with pay raises as the TEAM improves...this approach leaves dicipline up to the team, ie beat the hell out of the slow guy, he's costing us money!....Here's exactly how I believe Mullaly will have this structured please visit this url http://www.mmt-inst.com/wage_system_paper/wagesys.htm Also please google "toyota production system" ....we are and have been following it to the letter...another good google search is "management by stress"...."principles of just in time" "toyota continous improvement" These are important reads to make any sense out of things..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmoney28 Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Toyota can do things like this for one reason.......They are not union! Of course they do well with this system because they encourage good work with pay raises and promotions within the company, not a autographed football or a dinner in the cafeteria. don't get me wrong, I am very thankful for what the union has gotten me and my family, but you know that there is no way in hell that people with crap work records will stand for having to work hard to make money and the union will back them up on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Japanese car companies don't sell a lot of new vehicles to their own employees, unlike Americans. They get the bulk of their business from exports. American auto workers live close to the assembly plants, so when they buy, shipping costs are minimal. The more of the local public that see these vehicles, the more buy them. That saves even more in shipping costs. It is in their interest to pay wages that will allow these workers to buy these new vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopper Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Japanese car companies don't sell a lot of new vehicles to their own employees, unlike Americans. They get the bulk of their business from exports. American auto workers live close to the assembly plants, so when they buy, shipping costs are minimal. The more of the local public that see these vehicles, the more buy them. That saves even more in shipping costs. It is in their interest to pay wages that will allow these workers to buy these new vehicles. people get ready for it if you want to be the best you have to beat the best and right now that is they exports which i hate but take a look at them and there trucks looks to me they been coping us and gm for a long time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Bennet Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 people get ready for it if you want to be the best you have to beat the best and right now that is they exports which i hate but take a look at them and there trucks looks to me they been coping us and gm for a long time They (Honda and Toyota) stole our best plays, I'm ready to 'borrow' a few of thiers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD4EMAN Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Toyota can do things like this for one reason.......They are not union! Of course they do well with this system because they encourage good work with pay raises and promotions within the company, not a autographed football or a dinner in the cafeteria. don't get me wrong, I am very thankful for what the union has gotten me and my family, but you know that there is no way in hell that people with crap work records will stand for having to work hard to make money and the union will back them up on that amen brother! i have a brother (sibling) that works in georgetown ky in management and he says they got their pieces of crap also, he also says tomoco pays as well as they do to keep the union out. toyota would love to see the u nion go away and then thay could hife for a lot less. JIT can work but you still have to have some kind of float. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06StangAwesomecar Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Ladies and gentlemen...we are and HAVE BEEN working under the rules of the Toyota Production System Playbook...get ready to be put on teams (if you aren't already) that are responsible for continous improvement of certain predefined sectors. Each team will be rewarded with pay raises as the TEAM improves...this approach leaves dicipline up to the team, ie beat the hell out of the slow guy, he's costing us money!....Here's exactly how I believe Mullaly will have this structured please visit this url http://www.mmt-inst.com/wage_system_paper/wagesys.htm Also please google "toyota production system" ....we are and have been following it to the letter...another good google search is "management by stress"...."principles of just in time" "toyota continous improvement" These are important reads to make any sense out of things..... This article was published in IIE Solutions in February, 1996. Are they still doing it this way? I am assuming yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06StangAwesomecar Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Ladies and gentlemen...we are and HAVE BEEN working under the rules of the Toyota Production System Playbook...get ready to be put on teams (if you aren't already) that are responsible for continous improvement of certain predefined sectors. Each team will be rewarded with pay raises as the TEAM improves...this approach leaves dicipline up to the team, ie beat the hell out of the slow guy, he's costing us money!....Here's exactly how I believe Mullaly will have this structured please visit this url http://www.mmt-inst.com/wage_system_paper/wagesys.htm Also please google "toyota production system" ....we are and have been following it to the letter...another good google search is "management by stress"...."principles of just in time" "toyota continous improvement" These are important reads to make any sense out of things..... This article was published in IIE Solutions in February, 1996. Wow 1996 Are they still doing it this way? I am assuming yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imawhosure Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 This article was published in IIE Solutions in February, 1996. Wow 1996 Are they still doing it this way? I am assuming yes. Why mess with percieved sucess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanic Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Does anyone know for sure what the transplant auto factories pay? I have never heard a solid number, except for some news reports and vague things like a "few dollars less than UAW" and "comparable wages" . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectsinmirror Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 Does anyone know for sure what the transplant auto factories pay? I have never heard a solid number, except for some news reports and vague things like a "few dollars less than UAW" and "comparable wages" . If you are asking about the Japanese transplants, there is no solid number. That's because everyone throughout thier system makes wages according to what they've learned, how many different tasks they're capable of, and how much thier TEAM improved the system...this makes them a more valueble "tool" within the system (TPS) thus making more money (incentive)...This is how I believe Ford's system of wages will work too...no more 3% across the board stuff. You will be compensated on how "active" you are in the system (FPS)...continuous improvement baby.. "The machine that changed the world" an ever faster spinning wheel of controlled, increased chaos...coming to a Ford plant near you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Kerluck Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 amen brother! i have a brother (sibling) that works in georgetown ky in management and he says they got their pieces of crap also, he also says tomoco pays as well as they do to keep the union out. toyota would love to see the u nion go away and then thay could hife for a lot less. JIT can work but you still have to have some kind of float. The point that the Japs pay well to keep the union out is one that I've made before. People argue that the CAW/UAW are relics of the past, and are no longer relevant. Yet without the "threat" of the union, would these companies still pay as well, or reward as well? All companies are in the business of making a profit for their shareholders, and given a free hand they would take wages from the worker in an instant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chkchka Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 You do not want there to be an incentive based pay program at Ford. While I despise that the union protects jagoffs, the incentive program will turn worker on worker(like the coa has turned plant on plant) and the suckasses will rule. Not every foremans pet is a hard worker or worth a shit. I would hope the union would not allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectsinmirror Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 (edited) You do not want there to be an incentive based pay program at Ford. While I despise that the union protects jagoffs, the incentive program will turn worker on worker(like the coa has turned plant on plant) and the suckasses will rule. Not every foremans pet is a hard worker or worth a shit. I would hope the union would not allow it. The key thing to remember here is that the union is you...the union is me...(hey that should be a new catch phrase)..anyway, any wage system is a membership voting issue. The hypnosis of this has already started with news lately about the company and the union discussing bonus checks to all blue collar workers in the name of performance. Performance (the word) is used as a way to convince and soften the blow to the customer, the media, and the community..."performance" sounds fair to them...but inside the walls of the company it means CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT based wages in the name of JUST IN TIME principles...all of that said please read an account of someone who worked for Toyota of Japan http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cf...amp;ItemID=6533 I would like to see people vote their conscience on the contract...but they need to have one left first! Edited January 29, 2007 by objectsinmirror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Wages are not a really significant item in the total cost of building a car. Focusing on them is a red herring. If they need to get the units out, they will run on a Sunday paying double time, with two people on a job. As long as everyone works with no disruptions, a few dollars more or less an hour doesn't mean beans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectsinmirror Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 (edited) Wages are not a really significant item in the total cost of building a car. Focusing on them is a red herring. If they need to get the units out, they will run on a Sunday paying double time, with two people on a job. As long as everyone works with no disruptions, a few dollars more or less an hour doesn't mean beans. Well, goodmorning trim. I agree with you....it has very little to do with how much...but alot to to with how...continuous improvement and just in time are good systems that just about guarentee success...but (as the japanese found) has to respect people, to work properly...this is one of the three principles of Kaizen (continuous improvement) and it can and has gone awry..to the detriment of many a company.... Edited January 29, 2007 by objectsinmirror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanic Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 I think you guys are right about the wages. I just got confirmation of the transplant wages I was looking for. the average transplant assembly worker (US) makes about 24.50 an hour. starting wage a little over 15. They have medical insurance, but not a premium type plan. poor dental coverage, and a basic retirement program. I was also told that they don't have to deal with the union, so they can get rid of "old and slow" workers. some comments were that if you put a part on wrong you can be fired the first time, others say you get a warning first. One comment said that they treat their employees as "long term assets", another seemed to say that they were just fresh meat on the line. to see some more interesting comparisons you might check out toyotanation.com/forums. I am going to troll their website and post the good things about our products and how they can compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectsinmirror Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 I think you guys are right about the wages. I just got confirmation of the transplant wages I was looking for. the average transplant assembly worker (US) makes about 24.50 an hour. starting wage a little over 15. They have medical insurance, but not a premium type plan. poor dental coverage, and a basic retirement program. I was also told that they don't have to deal with the union, so they can get rid of "old and slow" workers. some comments were that if you put a part on wrong you can be fired the first time, others say you get a warning first. One comment said that they treat their employees as "long term assets", another seemed to say that they were just fresh meat on the line. to see some more interesting comparisons you might check out toyotanation.com/forums. I am going to troll their website and post the good things about our products and how they can compare. this is what I'm talking about...learn what you will vote on before you are POSSIBLY tricked...keep learnig mechanic...it's good for the soul...here.. http://www.newint.org/issue195/sparks.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanic Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 That was an interesting article. I have worked under a team concept on the taurus/freestar line here at van dyke trans. for 7 years. the focus line uses a team concept, but it has been gutted in it's input and efficiency over the last few years. the new 6f line shows very little team concept in it's implementation. I also worked at flat rock, which is mentioned in the article. things haven't changed there much in the last 17 years. You pull the line and all you get is management breathing down your back. I think the whole stress driven system is bad for employees, and I refused to be part of it when I was there. I showed up on time, everyday, did my job at a solid pace, but refused to run to catch up with the line, I ended up getting moved around until I got put in an offline department. People may say we are overpaid, but at least at assembly plants, you earn every penny! I am grateful to be back in powertrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectsinmirror Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 That was an interesting article. I have worked under a team concept on the taurus/freestar line here at van dyke trans. for 7 years. the focus line uses a team concept, but it has been gutted in it's input and efficiency over the last few years. the new 6f line shows very little team concept in it's implementation. I also worked at flat rock, which is mentioned in the article. things haven't changed there much in the last 17 years. You pull the line and all you get is management breathing down your back. I think the whole stress driven system is bad for employees, and I refused to be part of it when I was there. I showed up on time, everyday, did my job at a solid pace, but refused to run to catch up with the line, I ended up getting moved around until I got put in an offline department. People may say we are overpaid, but at least at assembly plants, you earn every penny! I am grateful to be back in powertrain. Your story completly fits the principles of the toyota production system and how, whether the company that uses the system knows it or not, exploits workers automatically...it's built into the system...it HAS to happen...the degree of how much exploitation is what the union, the companies, the media, the government and ultimately the general public need to keep an eye on... fit your story into this article and see : http://www.wpb.be/icm/98en/98en11.htm Ford has implemented this system. The unions job, and all americans job...is to keep it in check... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanic Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Your story completly fits the principles of the toyota production system and how, whether the company that uses the system knows it or not, exploits workers automatically...it's built into the system...it HAS to happen...the degree of how much exploitation is what the union, the companies, the media, the government and ultimately the general public need to keep an eye on... fit your story into this article and see : http://www.wpb.be/icm/98en/98en11.htm Ford has implemented this system. The unions job, and all americans job...is to keep it in check... I will have to check this out from home. this site is blocked from the Ford learning center as having "extreme content" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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