inteller Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Well, that suit was responsible for getting the chassis as right as it is, with a minimum of front overhang. HTT has always been about handling, not lighting up the tires. thats funny and ironic, considering the live axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 "thats funny and ironic, considering the live axle." No, not really. On reasonably smooth roads, the Mustang solid rear axle does quite well, because of the design, as compared to a solid rear axle on leaf springs. But the most sophisticated independent rear suspension can do nothing when a chassis is ill-balanced. The current Mustang is far and away the best ever made for basic balance. An all-alloy TT 3.5 or an alloy-block mod V-8 and optional lightweight hood and fenders would make it even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 An all-alloy TT 3.5 or an alloy-block mod V-8 and optional lightweight hood and fenders would make it even better. The S17 Mustang already uses an aluminum hood doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackedon Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 YAY he's gone! This guy never fit the SVT image. Oh I'm sure he is loved by the insider suits at Ford, and that is great...but every picture I saw of this guy in an SVT story he looked so out of place. Sorry, but you would never see this guy doing a smoky burnout coming into the SVT garage a la Scarpello. Scarpello and Coletti were both a man's man. HTT was a suit. Any time I saw him in a picture with the GT500 it was in a suit. I never could relate to him as a down to earth guy....just another dude climbing the corporate ladder. Someone call Jaguar and bring Scarpello back. SVT just got the guy from the Volvo R program, now bring in some Jag R program guys and maybe steal a few from Aston Martin. We need a performance dream team that reflects Ford performance across the board....not just a bunch of mustang nameplate managers. You obviously haven't seen any of these guys of the track. Don't let the suits fool you, HTT actually came through the ranks as a Vehicle Dynamics engineer and can drive circles around Scarpello and Coletti. Talk to any engineer at Ford or the guys at SVT and they will tell you as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 YAY he's gone! This guy never fit the SVT image. Oh I'm sure he is loved by the insider suits at Ford, and that is great...but every picture I saw of this guy in an SVT story he looked so out of place. Sorry, but you would never see this guy doing a smoky burnout coming into the SVT garage a la Scarpello. Scarpello and Coletti were both a man's man. HTT was a suit. Any time I saw him in a picture with the GT500 it was in a suit. I never could relate to him as a down to earth guy....just another dude climbing the corporate ladder. Someone call Jaguar and bring Scarpello back. SVT just got the guy from the Volvo R program, now bring in some Jag R program guys and maybe steal a few from Aston Martin. We need a performance dream team that reflects Ford performance across the board....not just a bunch of mustang nameplate managers. Don't sell HTT short -- he's a real car guy ...yeah, he is always posed in a suit... if you wear a suit 12 hours a day, you get to feel very comfortable in it. He's as American and as regular-a-guy as you and I but, I agree, he just might have an image problem. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 he just might have an image problem. ;-) Like Mark Fields' mullet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Like Mark Fields' mullet? and I thought I was the only one who noticed that ;-) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 and I thought I was the only one who noticed that ;-) . Nope. It bugs me so much, I photoshopped a picture of him without it a few months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 (edited) Nope. It bugs me so much, I photoshopped a picture of him without it a few months ago. Did you ever notice that Leno had a serious mullet when he first took over as Tonight Show host? It didn't last long. Wonder if the pic would get to him if you sent an e-mail to mfields@ford.com ...and would he notice? I think you need to subtitle it "Mulletless Mark Fields the Tough Questions" ;-) Are we off-topic? Nah! Were just on a side track of HTT's image!!! <lol> . <edit:> btw, you did a nice photoshop on that (easier to take hair off than put it on -- just like in real life <lol>) . Edited February 24, 2007 by 68fastback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkosters Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Any chance of convincing John Coletti to out of retirement ??? YES!!! I second that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkosters Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Fellas.....Ford needs to revive the line first...then they can work on "halo" cars like the ones from SVT. if they slap SVT on the flanks of every car line they produce...it would possibly dilute the SVT name...I still liked "SVO" better though. I disagree--you need to make appealing cars to get people in the door. Many people visit dealerships just to look at the Viper, Corvette, SSR, etc. [note the lack of Ford examples] on the showroom floor, then they end up test driving and buying something else while they are there. Also, the media thrives on speed and horsepower, so people gravitate toward the quicker models, then test drive the base model and find it more than acceptable. Every car magazine hammered on the Five Hundred/Montego for its lack of power, yet I found it fine for everyday driving. I drive an X5 4.4i with 325HP normally and don't even think about acceleration when I drive the Montego (wife's car). But again, people look at numbers and assume they need the 'fastest'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 YES!!! I second that!! +1, but fat chance... actually, I think Colletti could be HTT's competitive strategy 'ninja' -- John's the man, even tho we'll likely never see him active in Ford again <sigh> what a guy! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Many people visit dealerships just to look at the Viper, Corvette, SSR, etc. [note the lack of Ford examples] on the showroom floor, then they end up test driving and buying something else while they are there. Declining sales figures for Chevrolet and Dodge argue against this hypothesis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkosters Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Declining sales figures for Chevrolet and Dodge argue against this hypothesis. So just rename the Five Hundred to Taurus and you're all set? Take the Edge--came in dead last in this months Motor Trend. This in a completely new vehicle Ford is pinning a lot of hopes on. Fusion--A step in the right direction, but still just middle of the pack at best. My crystal ball shows it as the rental queen of 2010. :boring: 2008 Escape--drum brakes and the same powertrain since 2000. Need I go on? Ford has 2 products that continue to sell well--the Mustang and the F-150. They own the pony car class today, but in 24 months they will have competition in the Camaro and Challenger. And it looks like Toyota has declared war in the light-duty truck class, so in 5 years they could be eating Ford's lunch. Ford truly needs to make some "Bold Moves" and innovate--create some truly class leading products. Look at the mileage they got out of the Ford GT. Can you believe they created a vehicle with a $150K sticker price and 3 years later they STILL sell for way more? That completely changed a lot of people's minds about what Ford can do. Now that its run is about over, they need a replacement. SVT is a great avenue to "trickle-down" the R&D from the halo cars to the average guy (like the 5.4L in the GT500). I'm really disappointed that the SVT of the late 90's was thrown away, and it doesn't look like they're going to find their way back any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Look at the mileage they got out of the Ford GT. What mileage was that? Ford's sales are still down, and they were down both years the GT was on sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkosters Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 (edited) What mileage was that? Ford's sales are still down, and they were down both years the GT was on sale. Bang for the buck--the GT was a phenomenal investment. They got ridiculous amounts of free press in every magazine for years. And you missed the part about the list of bland products they're trying to sell--never said the GT would save them from a long list of other bad product mistakes. It's one piece of the puzzle--Halo products, Performance products, and class-leading vehicles. So, is your solution to circle the wagons, drop SVT, no more halo products, and keep selling the few profitable vehicles you have until your competitors erode your market share to the point that you close the doors? Edited February 24, 2007 by dkosters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 (edited) So, is your solution to circle the wagons, drop SVT, no more halo products, and keep selling the few profitable vehicles you have until your competitors erode your market share to the point that you close the doors? Did I say that? I said that halo cars don't work. People don't shop for cars the way you (and other halo car fans) assert. The statistics regarding the number of car buyers that shop on the internet first suggest that car buyers have changed. Ask at your local dealership how many buyers come in prepared to start negotiating at the invoice price--with full knowledge of dealer cash offers. ---- Unless Ford does 2 things, they will fail: 1) They must build vehicles with much greater than average reliability and perceived quality. 2) They must give buyers an incentive to buy their product over competing products. THIS INCENTIVE DOES NOT NEED TO BE PERFORMANCE. Having a souped up Mustang in a corner of the showroom does neither of those things, and--therefore--does not contribute toward the longterm viability of the company. Edited February 24, 2007 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkosters Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Did I say that? I said that halo cars don't work. People don't shop for cars the way you (and other halo car fans) assert. The statistics regarding the number of car buyers that shop on the internet first suggest that car buyers have changed. Ask at your local dealership how many buyers come in prepared to start negotiating at the invoice price--with full knowledge of dealer cash offers. ---- Unless Ford does 2 things, they will fail: 1) They must build vehicles with much greater than average reliability and perceived quality. 2) They must give buyers an incentive to buy their product over competing products. THIS INCENTIVE DOES NOT NEED TO BE PERFORMANCE. Having a souped up Mustang in a corner of the showroom does neither of those things, and--therefore--does not contribute toward the longterm viability of the company. Then why are Lexus, Acura, etc. all working on "supercars"?? To increase brand identity and show the company's potential. If you break even on the car you're still way ahead in the game. I agree that buying habits are changing with customer knowledge increasing due to more information being easily obtained. I argued this (unsucessfully) with a Lincoln/Mercury dealer 6 years ago when we bought my wife's Cougar... I agree with point 1....... What's your answer to point 2? Ford's products have been overweight (Edge, GT500) and underpowered (Five Hundred) as of late. That needs to be high on their priority list. This started as an SVT thread, ergo I'm talking about performance. There are many other things: 1. Product cycles--you can't build a car for 10 years and not change anything. Look at the number of products they've done that with--Taurus, Focus, Escape, Mustang, Crown Vic, Town Car, etc, etc, etc. 2. Brand identity--put faux aluminum trim on a car, call it a Mercury M-something, and tada..........flop. 3. Cost cutting--many examples of $2 savings resulting in mega-disasters. And the hard plastic interiors have to go. $40K Ford Explorer Limited with the same hard plastic door panels as a Focus???? 4. Retro-everything. Ruined the Cougar name. Ruined the Thunderbird name. Now they think they can resurrect a rental car name and it will miraculously sell better. 5. Strategy--how do you name a vehicle then kill it a year later (ala Zephr). Pulling CVT's out of the product lineup when you've invested hundreds of millions into the technology. 6. Flex manufacturing--they're late to the game, and it shows. Churning out Mustangs in the same plant for 40 years isn't a good sign. Having one plant 60% idle and another overloaded and you can't do anything about it... There's just a huge list of things, and they're making headway, but the Taurus move just baffles me..... I ordered a Mustang GT/CS this week and they have NO IDEA when it will be built. Based off the net info I looked at, it could be June (maybe??).... All this while thousands of Five Hunde......sorry......Tauruses will be sitting on the lot at fire sale prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 (edited) Then why are Lexus, Acura, etc. all working on "supercars"?? To increase brand identity and show the company's potential. 1) I have no idea, but 2) They are in a position where they can squander money on this if they want. As for the litany of other issues you allege, please correct it and repost it. I'm not going to correct your errors and exaggerations, nor am I going to contextualize issues such as manufacturing and order placement. You fix it, and we'll talk. Edited February 24, 2007 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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