J-150 Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 J ...we agreed?????? say it isn't so my friend!.....he can't take it to court...he would get thrown out in a heartbeat....besides that do you think if the bloodsucking Attourney thought he had a case he wouldn't have jumped all over it to begin with???? Something doesn"t jive....and if the Attourney actually DID tell him he had a case...please...frmo ME...tel him he need to pursue a different occupation...should be a bounty on those dudes....and also i think they did give him back his deposit...which LEGALLY they have too I'm sure you and I agree on more things than we disagree on... its just unfortunate that this sub-forum happens to be that thing we disagree most on! cheers my friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I'm sure you and I agree on more things than we disagree on... its just unfortunate that this sub-forum happens to be that thing we disagree most on! cheers my friend! feel for this guy...but ONCE again I feel the whole story isn't being told........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_K Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Rob...I am going to state this one more time....THERE WAS NO DAMN CAR! It was TWO YEARS BEFORE PRODUCTION.....and hey I have a deposit on the Mustang with 800 hp and IRS....the kid would have been thrown out of court in a heartbeat....speculation and wishful thinking with NOTHING verifiable in the slightest....and Bimmers take deposits on upcoming vehicles for sure...ALL IT GIVES IS THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY.....and as for their lineup go put a deposit on their M3 ( not out yet )......there will be no set in stone price...all iot will give you is the first opportunity...THATS ALL...if the dealear doesn't decide to sell you the car because of a better offer...go ahead...call Larry h Parker and see how far you get.....it would be totally different if you had a vin number WITH a selling price documented...but if you are missing one or the other it is TOTALLY up to the dealers disgression.....soory..i feel like I am kicking a dead horse here....and if you or I was in the same boat....and had a BINDING ( NOT HALFASSED ) contract i would have pursued it and paid the lawyer with MY markup over MSRP....case closed! Uh, I put a deposit on an E46 M3 about a year before it was due out. I got the dealer's first car at sticker. No problems. No worries. They're an UPSTANDING retailer with an excellent reputation. They're not out to line their pockets by screwing unsuspecting suckers, I mean customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 feel for this guy...but ONCE again I feel the whole story isn't being told........... probably so. and this is a similar situation to mine in that the anger is fresh in the mind. Sure he as the customer could be wrong and on the losing end, but that doesn't excuse the dealers broken promises in maintaining a healthy, long term customer. You and I agreed to disagree on my particular situation so we will leave it at that. I don't know all of this gentlemans story, but I whole heartedly understand his anger and frustration (even if he ultimately is in the wrong) If he is wrong, then he is wrong. Unfortunatley, his dealer maybe could have something to explain the situation and diffuse it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Uh, I put a deposit on an E46 M3 about a year before it was due out. I got the dealer's first car at sticker. No problems. No worries. They're an UPSTANDING retailer with an excellent reputation. They're not out to line their pockets by screwing unsuspecting suckers, I mean customers. good for you...but counter that with the GT500 was basically one per dealer and speculators were everywhere...that and 20 years from now they WILL be worth money...sorry Rob...but two totally different scenarios...and at window BMW makes approx twice what aGT gets,,,,cudos to the dealer though, and nice car....and BMW does gouge on certain models ( remember the Z*8 ?) they were 100k over down here....it is basically what the market will bear...m3's are a dime a dozen locally..( So Cal )_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 Rob...trust me ...unfortunately he never had a contract....the dealership did what was called de-horsing him.....with no vin he had nothing because there was actually NO CAR! I feel for the guy if he actually beleives this and scorn on this type of Dealeraship practice....however by NOT contracting until vins etc has been designated avoids what ( I used to sell ferraris as well ) the speculators that ar attempting to wrap a car up and resell it for a profit in THEIR back pockets.....and unfortunately the housing market can be the same....unless all parties involved have SIGNED the contract is NOT binding Call what ever you want (is this the fith grade?). I doubt anything I say will cange your mind. Not the contract, signed by myself and the dealer nor the DORA with my name on it. So, discussion closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 probably so. and this is a similar situation to mine in that the anger is fresh in the mind. Sure he as the customer could be wrong and on the losing end, but that doesn't excuse the dealers broken promises in maintaining a healthy, long term customer. You and I agreed to disagree on my particular situation so we will leave it at that. I don't know all of this gentlemans story, but I whole heartedly understand his anger and frustration (even if he ultimately is in the wrong) If he is wrong, then he is wrong. Unfortunatley, his dealer maybe could have something to explain the situation and diffuse it. Hey, I am totally with you, and unfortunately I hear these storys all the time...funny though ...they seem to never be locally...always in other states ( may be the Californian DMV are downright nasty here when wrongdoings are reported ) and broken promises are BS...wish a handshake meant what it initially did....and NO DOUBT that the dealer screwed up as well..a-holes if they did what was pertained.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 (edited) Call what ever you want (is this the fith grade?). I doubt anything I say will cange your mind. Not the contract, signed by myself and the dealer nor the DORA with my name on it. So, discussion closed. ok ...NOW youve crossed the Bullshit line and now i have ZERO sympathy....I am trying DESPERATELY to print a dora on a vrehicle that cannot be ordered yet because it is two years away...please help...you obviously know more than I do...........and your'e right, discussion terminated due to BS..... Edited April 5, 2007 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 ok ...NOW youve crossed the Bullshit line and now i have ZERO sympathy....I am trying DESPERATELY to print a dora on a vrehicle that cannot be ordered yet because it is two years away...please help...yiou obviously know more than I do...........and your'e right, discussion terminated due to BS..... Ok, I will try this one more time, Im thinkling your a little thick. Yes, I put the money down prior to the options and pricing were available. The process did not end there. I kept in touch with the salesman and he kept in touch with me. The ordering process opened, the pricing was set so I went in and we ordered the car! Of course, it sat in material hold forever (small non-svt, non presidents dealership). My salesperson has been at the dealership for a very long time so he was not new at this. The owner of the delership said he promised the car to someone else supposedly. My sales person was not happy, and I actually choose to believe him (go figuare) So you see, the car was ordered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 ok ...NOW youve crossed the Bullshit line and now i have ZERO sympathy....I am trying DESPERATELY to print a dora on a vrehicle that cannot be ordered yet because it is two years away...please help...yiou obviously know more than I do...........and your'e right, discussion terminated due to BS.....if it seems I am riding your case I apologize, and I am not siding w the dealer at all, however YOU must be held accountable for your Naive...you had nothing..it is a hard lesson but take it like a man and move on..and shoot that attourney.....hes more full of it than the dealer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_K Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 good for you...but counter that with the GT500 was basically one per dealer and speculators were everywhere...that and 20 years from now they WILL be worth money...sorry Rob...but two totally different scenarios...and at window BMW makes approx twice what aGT gets,,,,cudos to the dealer though, and nice car....and BMW does gouge on certain models ( remember the Z*8 ?) they were 100k over down here....it is basically what the market will bear...m3's are a dime a dozen locally..( So Cal )_ Agreed, the M3 is far more common, but I actually disagree about the future value of the GT500s and Shelby GTs for that matter. The GT500 is a pretty decent car, but it's super porky, ill handling and isn't really a Shelby. Ford simply licensed his name. The Shelby GT is an actual Shelby since the cars are sold to Shelby and they actually run it through their plant, even though all they're doing is bolting on FRPP components. At any rate, Ford is attempting to create a legend which won't work. What happened with the Shelby's of the 60s will never happen again. The guys buying the GT500s are the very same guys who missed the boat in the 60s. Surely no 20 year old can afford one. Once all of these old guys are gone there won't be any demand! I predict you'll be able to pick up a GT500 for $25k in about 2 years. And since when is there only an allocation of one per store? I thought the only limitation was plant capacity. I didnt' think there was a set run number (GT500s anyway)? With the crazy ADMs on these things (local dealer was a $20K ADM on a Shebly GT - about what GT500s sell for on ebay) it will take a LOOOOONG time to recoup that value - if ever. What kind of mark-ups were there on the Shelbys in 1968? I'm not looking for a fight here. I'm simply saying that dealers taking huge mark-ups to test the limits of the market and selling cars out from under folks is not a good thing for anyone. Agreement, contract, handshake or not. All it does is drive the business elsewhere. I bought a new '97 Cobra back in the day. Most of the dealers in my area were marking them up $3k-$5k. I kept looking until I found a dealer that would go for MSRP. When I did, I went down that night and picked it up. He still made a few bucks AND got 4 more sales from me when I told all my friends about my experience. All told I think he ended up selling about 7 or 8 units and got a bunch of service work. Which is better - 5 happy, long term customers or one big ADM and a bunch of disappointed/pissed off never-to-be customers? If you can get the big mark-ups then good for you. I know P.T. Barnum was on the money when he said " A sucker is born every minute". (Yeah, I know P.T. Barnum is reported to have never said that, but it's such a long-standing urban legend I didn't know whom else to attribute it to.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Ok, I will try this one more time, Im thinkling your a little thick. Yes, I put the money down prior to the options and pricing were available. The process did not end there. I kept in touch with the salesman and he kept in touch with me. The ordering process opened, the pricing was set so I went in and we ordered the car! Of course, it sat in material hold forever (small non-svt, non presidents dealership). My salesperson has been at the dealership for a very long time so he was not new at this. The owner of the delership said he promised the car to someone else supposedly. My sales person was not happy, and I actually choose to believe him (go figuare) So you see, the car was ordered! so why do you mention "ORDER" NOW! sure took long enough...but that also doesn't jive with your 2 year timeframe....come on man ALL the facts, not just selective....and quit with the "fifth grad " name calling...grow up...if you had a contract WITH a vin AND a selling price you wouldn't be bullshitting ...you would LEGALLY be an owner...perhaps part owner of a dealership.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 ok ...NOW youve crossed the Bullshit line and now i have ZERO sympathy....I am trying DESPERATELY to print a dora on a vrehicle that cannot be ordered yet because it is two years away...please help...yiou obviously know more than I do...........and your'e right, discussion terminated due to BS.....if it seems I am riding your case I apologize, and I am not siding w the dealer at all, however YOU must be held accountable for your Naive...you had nothing..it is a hard lesson but take it like a man and move on..and shoot that attourney.....hes more full of it than the dealer No problem, Maybe a better point, regardless of the legality of the situation is the dealer treated me like shit. And, I have moved on but I will always let people know what happened because I will cost that dealership money, somehow, someway. I have bought new fords and mercs since 1977 and have never been treated this way by any dealership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Agreed, the M3 is far more common, but I actually disagree about the future value of the GT500s and Shelby GTs for that matter. The GT500 is a pretty decent car, but it's super porky, ill handling and isn't really a Shelby. Ford simply licensed his name. The Shelby GT is an actual Shelby since the cars are sold to Shelby and they actually run it through their plant, even though all they're doing is bolting on FRPP components. At any rate, Ford is attempting to create a legend which won't work. What happened with the Shelby's of the 60s will never happen again. The guys buying the GT500s are the very same guys who missed the boat in the 60s. Surely no 20 year old can afford one. Once all of these old guys are gone there won't be any demand! I predict you'll be able to pick up a GT500 for $25k in about 2 years. And since when is there only an allocation of one per store? I thought the only limitation was plant capacity. I didnt' think there was a set run number (GT500s anyway)? With the crazy ADMs on these things (local dealer was a $20K ADM on a Shebly GT - about what GT500s sell for on ebay) it will take a LOOOOONG time to recoup that value - if ever. What kind of mark-ups were there on the Shelbys in 1968? I'm not looking for a fight here. I'm simply saying that dealers taking huge mark-ups to test the limits of the market and selling cars out from under folks is not a good thing for anyone. Agreement, contract, handshake or not. All it does is drive the business elsewhere. I bought a new '97 Cobra back in the day. Most of the dealers in my area were marking them up $3k-$5k. I kept looking until I found a dealer that would go for MSRP. When I did, I went down that night and picked it up. He still made a few bucks AND got 4 more sales from me when I told all my friends about my experience. All told I think he ended up selling about 7 or 8 units and got a bunch of service work. Which is better - 5 happy, long term customers or one big ADM and a bunch of disappointed/pissed off never-to-be customers? If you can get the big mark-ups then good for you. I know P.T. Barnum was on the money when he said " A sucker is born every minute". (Yeah, I know P.T. Barnum is reported to have never said that, but it's such a long-standing urban legend I didn't know whom else to attribute it to.) I hear you..I don't care for addendums either...unfortunately they have become a way of life, and one big problem was availability...we got two!!! When they are that scarce dealers talk to one another and come to a basic template....sad but true..they were 20 -25 here...and as much as I despise that, i can rationalise...especially when there is only 3600 between invoice and MSRP.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 No problem, Maybe a better point, regardless of the legality of the situation is the dealer treated me like shit. And, I have moved on but I will always let people know what happened because I will cost that dealership money, somehow, someway. I have bought new fords and mercs since 1977 and have never been treated this way by any dealership. no excuse for your treatment full stop, regardless no need for that......lot of A-holes in this business....and usually in higher positions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I say close all dealers and open up centralized service centers. They can offer service and warranty work, and provide vehicles for test drives. Do the actual sales and ordering on the Internet. Take the money spent on overpaid, obnoxious dealers and salespeople, and offer the vehicles at a discount. neer...can never happen unfortunately....16 year old Poxies would think it a huge joke to inundate their local with Purple Fusions with lime green interiors......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 Agreed, the M3 is far more common, but I actually disagree about the future value of the GT500s and Shelby GTs for that matter. The GT500 is a pretty decent car, but it's super porky, ill handling and isn't really a Shelby. Ford simply licensed his name. The Shelby GT is an actual Shelby since the cars are sold to Shelby and they actually run it through their plant, even though all they're doing is bolting on FRPP components. At any rate, Ford is attempting to create a legend which won't work. What happened with the Shelby's of the 60s will never happen again. The guys buying the GT500s are the very same guys who missed the boat in the 60s. Surely no 20 year old can afford one. Once all of these old guys are gone there won't be any demand! I predict you'll be able to pick up a GT500 for $25k in about 2 years. And since when is there only an allocation of one per store? I thought the only limitation was plant capacity. I didnt' think there was a set run number (GT500s anyway)? With the crazy ADMs on these things (local dealer was a $20K ADM on a Shebly GT - about what GT500s sell for on ebay) it will take a LOOOOONG time to recoup that value - if ever. What kind of mark-ups were there on the Shelbys in 1968? I'm not looking for a fight here. I'm simply saying that dealers taking huge mark-ups to test the limits of the market and selling cars out from under folks is not a good thing for anyone. Agreement, contract, handshake or not. All it does is drive the business elsewhere. I bought a new '97 Cobra back in the day. Most of the dealers in my area were marking them up $3k-$5k. I kept looking until I found a dealer that would go for MSRP. When I did, I went down that night and picked it up. He still made a few bucks AND got 4 more sales from me when I told all my friends about my experience. All told I think he ended up selling about 7 or 8 units and got a bunch of service work. Which is better - 5 happy, long term customers or one big ADM and a bunch of disappointed/pissed off never-to-be customers? If you can get the big mark-ups then good for you. I know P.T. Barnum was on the money when he said " A sucker is born every minute". (Yeah, I know P.T. Barnum is reported to have never said that, but it's such a long-standing urban legend I didn't know whom else to attribute it to.) I have to disagree just a bit. Caroll Shelby says its the real deal. I think he has the right to make that determination. Following that logic, the 68 Shelbys would not be considered real. It is a nice car and full of potential. I agree the future value will follow the path of your 97 Cobra. Now, the new KR, different story all together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I have to disagree just a bit. Caroll Shelby says its the real deal. I think he has the right to make that determination. Following that logic, the 68 Shelbys would not be considered real. It is a nice car and full of potential. I agree the future value will follow the path of your 97 Cobra. Now, the new KR, different story all together sorry...can't resist...did you put a deposit down KR is going to rock...and like I said sorry I couldn't resist.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 sorry...can't resist...did you put a deposit down KR is going to rock...and like I said sorry I couldn't resist.... Ah, no. I can afford a 500 but I think the KR will be way out of my league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Never say never. Even though I have a dealer I love, if given the option, I would order direct. big problem is if there are issues, sure would be a lot of little out to pasture issue cars....sorry, i don't like that I'll order another.....and you CAN order direct, just thru the dealer...hell i seemingly NEVER have what people want so i factory order a LOT of vehicles for people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Ah, no. I can afford a 500 but I think the KR will be way out of my league. funny, so your dealer was a scumbag and you never new better and your attourney was a hoax! Cheers mate...hopefully next time you will be dealt with in a more professional manner...jury ajourned :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 Never say never. Even though I have a dealer I love, if given the option, I would order direct. Oh, what the hey I had one delar that treated me great. Had I not moved, I would have never gone anyplace else, even direct. I will be the first to admit that the consumer shares a lot of blame in whats going on in the market place. People will travel 100 miles to save 100 bucks. I have done it and I see now, thats not the best way to handle my buisness. So, If I can find a dealer who will treat me fairly, I am not going to sell out to another for a few bucks. Service is important to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Oh, what the hey I had one delar that treated me great. Had I not moved, I would have never gone anyplace else, even direct. I will be the first to admit that the consumer shares a lot of blame in whats going on in the market place. People will travel 100 miles to save 100 bucks. I have done it and I see now, thats not the best way to handle my buisness. So, If I can find a dealer who will treat me fairly, I am not going to sell out to another for a few bucks. Service is important to me liking the tude...true story, if it wasn't for repeat business I would be in another industry, only reason I am surviving (?????????) is the fact I have been here so long. AND, this can be taken for basically any industry...if you DO go back to the same person constantly and build up a repore/ friendship...then when push does comes to shove THAT person WILL go the extra yard for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 liking the tude...true story, if it wasn't for repeat business I would be in another industry, only reason I am surviving (?????????) is the fact I have been here so long. AND, this can be taken for basically any industry...if you DO go back to the same person constantly and build up a repore/ friendship...then when push does comes to shove THAT person WILL go the extra yard for you... Dean, your OK ! Seriously, thats exactly what I will be looking for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_K Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I have to disagree just a bit. Caroll Shelby says its the real deal. I think he has the right to make that determination. Following that logic, the 68 Shelbys would not be considered real. It is a nice car and full of potential. I agree the future value will follow the path of your 97 Cobra. Now, the new KR, different story all together Sure Caroll says it the real deal. He's collecting those royalty checks every month! In actuallity he had very little, if anything to do with the development of the car. It was the brainchild of the folks in marketing (SVT). Back in the 60s Ford approached Caroll and had him do the development of the cars and I believe he actually built them. The GT500s roll off the line at Flat Rock with the rest of the stangs. The Shelby GT is shipped as a finished GT with a few oddities such as the California Special bumpers and side scoops, the Black Bullitt wheels, V6 fenders (no holes), spoiler delete trunk lids and a few other items already on the car. Shelby then adds their scoop and overlay grille and bolts on a bunch of Ford Racing bolt-ons. It's not a spectacular car performance-wise, but it is touched by Shelby employees. I think it might be the closet collectible of the two "Shelbys", but again I'm not spending my money to find out. To each his own though man! Buy what you love and drive it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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