waymondospiff Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 RJ asked about this last month to see who would be the largest manufacturer of CUVs. The problem is trying to measure 1. what is a CUV and 2. who is the manufacturer. I ended up with a few lists trying to figure out who's who and what's what. I included only manufacturers that surpassed 10,000 units in April, so you'll note that some manufacturers, like Nissan (Murano 6,316 units & FX35/45 1,574 units), are missing from the list. 1. Brand name, SUV-like CUVs (Escape & Rav4, no PT Cruiser/HHR) Honda - 32,841 - Pilot, CRV & Element Ford - 28,815 - Escape, Edge & Freestyle Toyota - 24,617 - Rav4 & Highlander Hyundai - 10,956 - Tucson, Santa Fe & Veracruz Saturn - 10,180 - Vue & Outlook 2. "Traditional Company", SUV-like CUVs Honda - 39,489 - Honda & Acura Ford - 34,781 - Ford, Lincoln & Mercury Toyota - 32,478 - Toyota & Lexus GM - 30,753 - Buick, Cadillac, Chevy, GMC, Pontiac & Saturn Hyundai - 10,956 - Hyundai 3. Total Parent Company, SUV-like CUVs Honda - 39,489 Ford - 38,251 - add Volvo & Land Rover Toyota - 32,478 GM - 30,753 Hyundai - 10,956 - add Kia (0 crossovers) But, then what is a CUV? Well, is the HHR a CUV? What about the PT Cruiser? Magnum? XC70? So I added in the HHR, PT Cruiser, Caliber, Magnum, Compass, Patriot, and XC70. But I don't like these numbers because it doesn't include the Pontiac Vibe or Toyota Matrix. And even though it didn't make the list, would the Subaru Outback make the cut? How about the Subaru Impreza Wagon? Kia Rondo? Mazda5? It's a slippery slope, so I like the first definition better, but here are the numbers: 1. Brand name, "all" CUVs Honda - 32,841 Ford - 28,815 Toyota - 24,617 Chrysler - 16,346 - Pacifica & PT Cruiser Chevy - 13,924 - Equinox & HHR Dodge - 11,695 - Caliber & Magnum Hyundai - 10,956 Saturn - 10,180 2. Traditional Manufacturers, "all" CUVs Honda - 39,489 GM - 37,564 Ford - 34,781 Chrysler - 34,184 - Chrysler, Dodge & Jeep Toyota - 32,478 Hyundai - 10,956 3. Total Parent Company, "all" CUVs DaimlerChrysler - 39,645 - Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep & Mercedes-Benz (R, M, & GL class) Honda - 39,489 Ford - 39,007 GM - 37,564 Toyota - 32,478 Hyundai - 10,956 Confused yet? I know I am. So, in some ways Chrysler is pretty darn big, but only when you wrap what otherwise would be compact class cars into the sales numbers. If Matrix sales were added in I wonder how much higher Toyota would be? But my favorite metric for measuring this class is Total Parent Company, SUV-like CUVs - which puts Ford as the second-largest manufacturer of CUVs right behind Honda. Not a bad place to be, all things considered. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Honka is such a green company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 Honka is such a green company. Honda may be the "greenest" out there - heck, even their "truck" is a crossover. What I found interesting is that it was definetely the third CUV that put Honda on top - the Element sold several thousand copies...that's enough volume to make anyone notice. I wonder if there is room for decidedly more "trucky" and "utilitarian" CUVs? Maybe a small, tall, & boxy C1-based CUV would do well for Ford? Slap a shiny three-bar grille on the front and give it a peppy MZR - it seems like that'd do well. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smok Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Honda may be the "greenest" out there - heck, even their "truck" is a crossover. What I found interesting is that it was definetely the third CUV that put Honda on top - the Element sold several thousand copies...that's enough volume to make anyone notice. I wonder if there is room for decidedly more "trucky" and "utilitarian" CUVs? Maybe a small, tall, & boxy C1-based CUV would do well for Ford? Slap a shiny three-bar grille on the front and give it a peppy MZR - it seems like that'd do well. Scott Yea let's all laugh at Honda. Ha ha ha, what losers, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Yea let's all laugh at Honda. Ha ha ha, what losers, eh? At least the Ridgeline is still dead in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconman13 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I am suprized Mazda didnt make the list, with all the CUV's they seem to be making Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I am suprized Mazda didnt make the list, with all the CUV's they seem to be making They're still a pretty small brand though. Market share is only what, 4% maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconman13 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I just looked up their April numbers, lot less than what I would have guessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Hey, Waymo: Did you add Mazda to Ford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Hey, Waymo: Did you add Mazda to Ford? Why would he do that? Ford does not own Mazda, They do not count Mazda's sales as Ford Sales, Just because Ford carries a lot of saying power in Mazda's desicions does not make Mazda's sales Fords. If Ford owned 100% of Mazda then the cade would change. Should Toyota count Subaru in their sales then? Or Should GM have when they owned part of subaru and isuzu. Should GM count Suzuki? Give it the above may not have as much control as Ford does over Mazda but none-the-less It would only make since to count Mazda's sales with Ford when Ford themselves count them together..............that will be when/if they own 100% of Mazda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 GM DOES report Isuzu sales. And neither GM nor Toyota own controlling stakes in Isuzu, Suzuki, or Subaru. And Mazda is just about as independent of Ford as Lithuania was independent of the USSR after WWII. Ford places the managers they want and recalls them when they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 (edited) By RJ's logic, Ford develops the products and Mazda just slaps their badge on them. Mazdas aren't Fords and the credit should go where it is due. And as DCK pointed out, even Ford doesn't count Mazda sales as theirs. Edited May 4, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Why would he do that? Ford does not own Mazda, They do not count Mazda's sales as Ford Sales, Just because Ford carries a lot of saying power in Mazda's desicions does not make Mazda's sales Fords. If Ford owned 100% of Mazda then the cade would change. Should Toyota count Subaru in their sales then? Or Should GM have when they owned part of subaru and isuzu. Should GM count Suzuki? Give it the above may not have as much control as Ford does over Mazda but none-the-less It would only make since to count Mazda's sales with Ford when Ford themselves count them together..............that will be when/if they own 100% of Mazda. GM counts vehicles made by a Chinese affiliate and sold under a non-GM brand as part of GM's total world-wide sales. Renault counts Nissan in their global totals even though Renault holds a 44% stake in Nissan. Given that Ford has management control of Mazda, and that platforms and drivetrains are heavily integrated and that Mazdas are marketed through Ford's own global web page, Ford can easily claim Mazda falls under the Ford umbrella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 By RJ's logic, Ford develops the products and Mazda just slaps their badge on them. By pcsario's logic, the Mazda Tribute and Mazda B-trucks are developed totally independently by Mazda and built in their own dedicated factories and just by coincidence, those vehicles just happen to look like rebadged Fords. Completely coincidental. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 (edited) Ford can easily claim Mazda falls under the Ford umbrella. And yet... they don't/can't. Damn, who should I trust? Range or Ford's lawyers? What a tough choice! Edited May 4, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconman13 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I dont know about Mazda, that may be a bit of a stretch, but if Chrysler can claim Mercedes, then they should at least be able to include Volvo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRODMOTORS Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Where's Ovaltine? He'd be all over this. "WHERE'S THE KIA RHONDO!?!?" Ya know, the one with the 'Experience Giddyupness' :blah: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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