sept68 Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 The refineries have us by the balls. What are we going to do? Nationalize them just like Venezuela? There is absolutly no incentive for them to pump out more fuel. Gasoline is no different than any other commodity. The less you make the more you can charge. Produce less milk the more you charge. Grow less corn the more you can charge. And if you think prices are high now, wait until oil production peaks. The only way out of this is to promote alternate fuel sources--especially nuclear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 (edited) The refineries have us by the balls. What are we going to do? Nationalize them just like Venezuela? There is absolutly no incentive for them to pump out more fuel. Gasoline is no different than any other commodity. The less you make the more you can charge. Produce less milk the more you charge. Grow less corn the more you can charge. And if you think prices are high now, wait until oil production peaks. The only way out of this is to promote alternate fuel sources--especially nuclear. The difference between fuel and any other commodity is that we can substitute or eliminate other commodities from our usage. Milk is one of the best examples. If we wish we can simple not buy or drink it until the price came down. their are plenty of other beverages! We have to have fuel to get to work to feed our families! Edited May 20, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sept68 Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 The difference between fuel and any other commodity is that we can substitute or eliminate other commodities from our usage. Milk is one of the best examples. If we wish we can simple not buy or drink it until the price came down. their are plenty of other beverages! We have to have fuel to get to work to feed our families! Really? Do we need fuel? Or have we adapted our current way of life to include fossil fuels? There are people who have no need for gasoline. Of course they tend to live in the big cites. Affordable gas and reliable cars allowed us to move away from urban centers. Once fuel becomes scarce and too expensive, many will be forced to move back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 20, 2007 Author Share Posted May 20, 2007 Apparently the original poster of this message doesnt realize there is no 'midgrade' gasoline blend. They make regular and premium. When you select midgrade at the pump, you receive a 50/50 combo of regular and premium. I was the original poster of this thread, and you are wrong. I worked at a gas station(Mobil) and there were three octane ratings and three separate tanks. Also, if what you say is true....why is it when I got gas this morning, there are three octanes, and three separate pump hoses.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 I was the original poster of this thread, and you are wrong. I worked at a gas station(Mobil) and there were three octane ratings and three separate tanks. Also, if what you say is true....why is it when I got gas this morning, there are three octanes, and three separate pump hoses.... I don't know when you worked at that gas station ( I worked at one in 1967 !), but I'm pretty certain it is blended at the pump. That is there may be 3 hoses (looks better for marketing; don't want premium customers "sharing" there hose with the common folk) but there are only 2 tanks and 2 pipes going into the pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I don't know when you worked at that gas station ( I worked at one in 1967 !), but I'm pretty certain it is blended at the pump. That is there may be 3 hoses (looks better for marketing; don't want premium customers "sharing" there hose with the common folk) but there are only 2 tanks and 2 pipes going into the pump arrogant commuters! Don't use that hose in your Lincoln, it was just in a Kia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g48150 Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 This is like asking why Ice Cream has to be stored in a freezer, or why a motor oil smoothie is a BAD idea. Somethings just DON'T need to be answered okay? Think about this one, it'll really make you wonder. With all the dollar stores around with all the cheap plastic (which comes from oil) that come from China, how do we expect to keep the price of ANY refined petroleum product down... Stop the dollar stores, stop outrageous gas prices... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savetheplanet Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 I agree that ExxonMobil are evil bastards. But their 10% profit margin (even it is on really really huge numbers) is not out of line. Lots of industries see much much higher numbers. But what is the true cost of gas? The cost of research and design, exploration, distribution, wages and profit PLUS the cost of environmental clean up for spills, drilling and emissions, global climate change, health care for those who suffer from illnesses and ailments secondary to the air, water and soil pollution(MTBE) PLUS the cost of a foreign policy centered around ensuring a constant supply of petroleum. That means the Gulf Wars, the raised security surrounding the first and second world trade center attacks, the economic impact after 9/11 and the cost of reaffirming our failing diplomatic relations with other countries due to this one-track foreign policy. That's the true cost of gas. Cheap gas is not one of "Life, LIberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" so, despite what the media may say, nobody has any kind of a "right" to cheap gas. Gas is already waaay cheaper here than a lot of places. I think a little reality is a good thing for this nation. Its not like this is affordable health-care access or something. It's gas to trnsport ONE person (most of the time,) in a gas guzzler to the store, which is usaly right up the street. Its so much easier to complain than it is to tighten your belt, do without some self-indulgences and invest what you earn. I don't think gas prices are making ya'll change your gas-guzzling ways at all, but you preach a good story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) I agree that ExxonMobil are evil bastards. But their 10% profit margin (even it is on really really huge numbers) is not out of line. Lots of industries see much much higher numbers. But what is the true cost of gas? The cost of research and design, exploration, distribution, wages and profit PLUS the cost of environmental clean up for spills, drilling and emissions, global climate change, health care for those who suffer from illnesses and ailments secondary to the air, water and soil pollution(MTBE) PLUS the cost of a foreign policy centered around ensuring a constant supply of petroleum. That means the Gulf Wars, the raised security surrounding the first and second world trade center attacks, the economic impact after 9/11 and the cost of reaffirming our failing diplomatic relations with other countries due to this one-track foreign policy. That's the true cost of gas. Cheap gas is not one of "Life, LIberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" so, despite what the media may say, nobody has any kind of a "right" to cheap gas. Gas is already waaay cheaper here than a lot of places. I think a little reality is a good thing for this nation. Its not like this is affordable health-care access or something. It's gas to trnsport ONE person (most of the time,) in a gas guzzler to the store, which is usaly right up the street. Its so much easier to complain than it is to tighten your belt, do without some self-indulgences and invest what you earn. I don't think gas prices are making ya'll change your gas-guzzling ways at all, but you preach a good story. You can't use the cost associated with gasoline production to justify what their doing. We are talking hundreds of billions profit. Profit means above overhead! Also china's oil consumption is not affecting our gas prices. U.S. oil refinery capacity is. Edited May 22, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savetheplanet Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 It would help if Americans would not "over consume" everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 define your statment of "over consume"...one of the reasons oil is so high is rapid expansion of countries like India and China....their economies are exploding as their populations are "over consuming" on everything from cars to doo dads for their active lifestyles. Couple this over consumption with the lax controls of environmental concerns and you have a man made disaster of epoch proportions that America will no doubt come to the aid of. Your logic has no basis for my original thread of tight refinery production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) define your statment of "over consume"...one of the reasons oil is so high is rapid expansion of countries like India and China....their economies are exploding as their populations are "over consuming" on everything from cars to doo dads for their active lifestyles. Couple this over consumption with the lax controls of environmental concerns and you have a man made disaster of epoch proportions that America will no doubt come to the aid of. Your logic has no basis for my original thread of tight refinery production. Ounce again international demand is not driving up the price! The refineries are still buying cheap. American oil refinery owners are restricting production in order to manipulate profits. What their doing is irresponsible they are causing people to suffer! Build another damn refinery or two now! Edited May 22, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savetheplanet Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Ounce again international demand is not driving up the price! The refineries are still buying cheap. American oil refinery owners are restricting production in order to manipulate profits. What their doing is irresponsible they are causing people to suffer! Build another damn refinery or two now! You and your wife get off your fat ass and ride a bike!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 You and your wife get off your fat ass and ride a bike!! Honestly, I did buy a bike and ride it in protest last year. Working 10 hour shifts on the line and riding a bike 32.8 miles a day is very tiring. As far as my wife, If you said that while standing in my presents you would be missing some teeth!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savetheplanet Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Honestly, I did buy a bike and ride it in protest last year. Working 10 hour shifts on the line and riding a bike 32.8 miles a day is very tiring. As far as my wife, If you said that while standing in my presents you would be missing some teeth!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, I retract that statement and apologize, 32.8 miles a day + a 10 hour shift in the summer = hardcore! I don't think most ppl. know how hard you guys work on a 10 hr. shift, that's why I always laugh when I hear the term "lazy auotworker" sure, there might be a few on restriction who don't have to work as hard but overall, Ford makes you frikin work for that $$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 23, 2007 Author Share Posted May 23, 2007 So seeing as you retracted that statement and apologized for your comment.....we can conclude that you don't really know the situations that you speak of... I will once again ask you how any of your baseless comments have anything to do with my original thread of tight refinery production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savetheplanet Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 So seeing as you retracted that statement and apologized for your comment.....we can conclude that you don't really know the situations that you speak of... I will once again ask you how any of your baseless comments have anything to do with my original thread of tight refinery production. What are you the topic police? It's called thread drift, check into it! My point is that most people don't want to take responsability for the increase in gas price, blame the refinery, blame the tree huggers, blame big oil but whatever you do, don't hold yourself accountable for over consumption. Do any of you really try to save gas? Maybe a few, but most just want a scapegoat. How far do you live from work, what do you drive, do you car pool, do you keep your tires inflated to the correct PSI? etc.... Why do you cry about gasw price but don't say a word when the price of other items skyrockets? Do you people have an entitlement complex? Do you even care about the future of the planet? Or do you just care about yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 My point is that most people don't want to take responsability for the increase in gas price, blame the refinery, blame the tree huggers, blame big oil but whatever you do, don't hold yourself accountable for over consumption. Do any of you really try to save gas? Maybe a few, but most just want a scapegoat. Another thing I see with this is that as gas has been going up do you really think people have been using more(than usual)????? Me and alot of people I know have been cutting back. Seems funny that demand has not gone down at all, does it not????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) Another thing I see with this is that as gas has been going up do you really think people have been using more(than usual)?????Me and alot of people I know have been cutting back. Seems funny that demand has not gone down at all, does it not????? Last summer when they did this shit to us, the news said that sales where flat from the previous year. That is a reduction in itself because, there are more vehicles on the road every year! so if more vehicles used the same volume what does that tell you? Most commodities have a limit as to what the market will bare and sales begin to fall off at that price. Gas is different in that it is a necessity to an extent. Alot of people that I know have to drive a min. of 16 miles to work! I wish I controlled a commodity that everyone had to have. Edited May 23, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savetheplanet Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Alot of people that I know have to drive a min. of 16 miles! I wish I controlled a commodity that everyone had to have. They HAVE to drive 16 miles? There is no possible way they could move half that distance? Not EVERYONE has to have gas, I have not owned a car in 5 years, although I am getting ready to buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) They HAVE to drive 16 miles? There is no possible way they could move half that distance?Not EVERYONE has to have gas, I have not owned a car in 5 years, although I am getting ready to buy one. O.k. dude I'm generally patient with people but I've read enough of you posts to know that your a f-cking idiot now. I should have called you on it when you referred to our soldiers as baby killers! I had a typo in my last post and your last criticism didn't even make sense to me! Edited May 23, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savetheplanet Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 It's called a troll, a bad tasting troll but a troll none the less, not ment to be take literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40anout Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 You folks are all fools for falling for this shit. Last year it was OPEC this year its tight refinery production. It's all bullshit. The truth of the matter is its George W. This country can not sustain $4 a gallon for gas. George W. is tale spinning this country into a major recession before he leaves office. Not only a recession but one of the big 3 will go belly up. Just watch and see. I say it's Ford as Mullany has mortgaged the whole company and Ford produces the largest number of gas hogs. But this is all our fault the american middle class. We work all year, try to have nice things can't wait until July for that much needed vacation and bam $4 gas and for the past 7 years of George W there has allways been a lame excuse. Lets also not forget the tax on gas. In my county its 70 cents a gallon and in some parts of the country its over a $1 per gallon. Has the democratic congress stepped up to he plate. No they havn't and what about all that oil in Iraq. You don't hear a word about it. Where is it? What about the Alaska pipeline. It is my understanding that that oil is exported to of all places Japan and George W wants to drill for more Alaska oil. (China needs its) This is all part of the big picture of life. Screw the little guy. Stop crying and bend over. My advise to all, is to save your money until its hurts. Your going to need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 23, 2007 Author Share Posted May 23, 2007 (edited) What are you the topic police? It's called thread drift, check into it! My point is that most people don't want to take responsability for the increase in gas price, blame the refinery, blame the tree huggers, blame big oil but whatever you do, don't hold yourself accountable for over consumption. Do any of you really try to save gas? Maybe a few, but most just want a scapegoat. How far do you live from work, what do you drive, do you car pool, do you keep your tires inflated to the correct PSI? etc.... Why do you cry about gasw price but don't say a word when the price of other items skyrockets? Do you people have an entitlement complex? Do you even care about the future of the planet? Or do you just care about yourself? And my point is...if you want to yammer on endlessly about what you perceive as all that ails America...start a new thread, or resume your A.D.D. meds so you can focus on the topic instead of trying to blame it on a faceless entity (thread drift?? Really??) Why do I "cry" (didn't know that questioning an item was considered "crying") about supply problems and not the "other" high prices? When I am on the blogs that relate to them...I will "cry" about those as well. Since I am here on a car blog and gasoline is directly related to a car, I am asking that question (..or "crying" about it according to you.) As to your questions: 15 miles to work in a rural setting. Ford Fusion. No. Yes. etc... I don't have an entitlement complex other than I feel I am entitled to keep my hard earned $$$ Yes, an example of that would be that I have changed out my lighting in my house to low energy flouro bulbs, upgraded my furnace to a high efficiency unit, switched to a front load washer to use less water, replaced my hot water tank to a tankless design, and planted several trees on my property to replace the ones that needed to be removed for safety reasons. Future plans include getting a Hybrid Fusion when one is available ( the higher cost is not a factor here) I want to decrease my carbon output (didn't think I knew about that...did you?) even further, the fuel savings would be an asset and would offset the higher cost of the vehicle in timely use. Yes and No, I care about myself...but I also care about my children...teaching them about responsible living, and not forcing their beliefs on others, instead respecting others and the choices they make. So, ya got anything to add regarding why if refinery production is tight, the refineries still produce many differing octanes when 87 octane works well on most daily drivers? here is a solution....make one octane (90) so both my car and the cars that require a higher number work well. That should (notice I used the word "should") free up capacity to help ease the pinch in supply. I also believe as a previous poster recommended to pick the cleanest blend and use it nation wide instead of trying to knit a patchwork of regional blends that only seem to hamper capacity. Edited May 23, 2007 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 what about all that oil in Iraq. You don't hear a word about it. Where is it? Billions in Oil Missing in Iraq, U.S. Study Says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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