Weighing new car purchase, please help...

[johnnymack]

I am going to be getting rid of my '98 Expedition soon. With 105k miles, a few thousand in repairs over the last 2 years, and 13mpg, I just can't handle it anymore.

 

I'd like to stick with an SUV, and I want hybrid-type mileage. My search initially took me to the Highlander, but the price is pretty high for what I want (pretty fully loaded). I KNOW the Highlander and Escape are technically in different classes...but if you're looking for a Hybrid SUV, this is the decision you come to.

 

I have been seriously looking at the Escape and Mariner models, but haven't been able to get out to have a test drive yet. I have read just about everything I can find, and just found this forum today. There seem to be many things that the Ford fans here really really dislike about the car.

 

So my question - are the things discussed here more of gripes, or would you guys consider them dealbreakers? My top areas of concern are:

 

Overall power of engine

4-speed transmission, especially when it comes to hill climbing

Age of transmission/engine pair

Reliability

Navigation system - how bad is it? I haven't read anything good except that it's better than it used to be.

No Electric A/C - it seems this can really heat you up at stop signs...how big a problem/issue is it?

 

I have read that they are coming out with the "better" engine in the 09 model...but I really don't think I can wait that long. For someone who really isn't as well versed on Ford technology, how major of an upgrade is that?

 

The Highlander is a good 30-40% more expensive than the Escape, so I'd LOVE to give myself the reasons I need to stick with a Ford. It would be my first NEW car purchase (last 2 were used Expedition and Explorer) so I know that many of my reliability issues should be solved by being the only owner and keeping good care of it.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited May 16, 2007 by johnnymack

[thegeneral]

Check out the 2008 Saturn Vue, 2007 GMC Acadia, 2007 Ford Edge

[td284]

Honda CRV and Element get great mileage, also Subaru Outback and Forester. The Ford Freestyle (soon to be Taurus X) is a real sleeper, being the largest of any of these and with good mileage. None of them will win any races, but then why get an SUV?

[focalxplosion]

Overall power of engine

4-speed transmission, especially when it comes to hill climbing

Age of transmission/engine pair

Reliability

Navigation system - how bad is it? I haven't read anything good except that it's better than it used to be.

No Electric A/C - it seems this can really heat you up at stop signs...how big a problem/issue is it?

 

On overall power, it seemed adequate, but we didn't really push it on our last test drive.

It doesn't have a 4-speed transmission, it has a CVT. Actually it's the same transmission which Toyota uses in the Prius and maybe the Hylander. As for hill climbing I couldn't tell you.

Not sure what you mean by age of transmission/engine pair

Reliability is unknown for the new model but typical for Escapes on the last gen.

I haven't tested many navigation systems, but the new one is a huge improvement.

No electric A/C just means you lose engine stop on warm days. Fuel economy drops, but you stay cool.

[focalxplosion]

Honda CRV and Element get great mileage, also Subaru Outback and Forester. The Ford Freestyle (soon to be Taurus X) is a real sleeper, being the largest of any of these and with good mileage. None of them will win any races, but then why get an SUV?

 

None of those get fuel economy close to the hybrid Escape.

[leoart]

I just sold my Honda Element to get a Hybrid Escape. I'd stay away from the Element if you think the excessive road noise and a truck-like ride will annoy you. There are some things Ford could have done to make the Escape better, but I have driven it a few times now and generally think I will like the vehicle when my order comes in. 26 is not great mpg to me in 2007...

 

Honda CRV and Element get great mileage, also Subaru Outback and Forester. The Ford Freestyle (soon to be Taurus X) is a real sleeper, being the largest of any of these and with good mileage. None of them will win any races, but then why get an SUV?

Edited May 17, 2007 by leoart

[Arniect]

The new Escape and Mariner are nice vehicles. Big improvements over the previous generation. Drive them and decide for yourself.

 

The Boy racers in the Car Rags and on this board hate them because they are not all new and do not have all the lastest gadgets.

 

The people that have bought them (customers) say they love them. Never mind what the Bench racers have to offer.

 

One of our friends has an 05 Hybrid he loves it. Has not had any issues.

 

I see at least in Ct, Ford has 3.9% or $500 rebate on the 08 hybrids. Not sure about Mercury. Don't forget the Over 2k tax credit also.

[theoldwizard]

I am going to be getting rid of my '98 Expedition soon. With 105k miles, a few thousand in repairs over the last 2 years, and 13mpg, I just can't handle it anymore.

First, are you certain you can make the step down from an Expedition to an Escape ! That's a HUGE difference !!

 

I'd like to stick with an SUV, and I want hybrid-type mileage.

I'm not a big fan of hybrids. Their costs just don't justify the fuel savings. Now if gas goes to $5/gal it's a different story

 

The engine/trans that was introduced in the '06 Escape Hybrid will be the only hybrid powertrain that Ford will have for the next few years. Yes, it will get a few minor improvements, but no major changes.

 

Big hill climbing could be an issue. Remember, it's only a 4 cylinder.

So my question - are the things discussed here more of gripes, or would you guys consider them dealbreakers? My top areas of concern are:

 

Overall power of engine

4-speed transmission, especially when it comes to hill climbing

Age of transmission/engine pair

Reliability

Navigation system - how bad is it? I haven't read anything good except that it's better than it used to be.

No Electric A/C - it seems this can really heat you up at stop signs...how big a problem/issue is it?

Around town and even on the freeway, power is "adequate". With 4 adult and a full load of luggage, it would be marginal.

 

Reliability ? To early to tell, but the warranty numbers for the first year hybrid looked pretty good.

 

Nav System. Don't know. Personally, I would by an aftermarket portable like a Garmin Street Pilot or nuvi.

 

No electric A/C means that the engine runs whenever the A/C is turned on ! There goes your fuel economy. Can you live without A/C in stop and go traffic in August ?

 

My sister and her husband have 2WD V6 Escapes. Ones an '06 and the other an '08 V6. They love them. Fuel economy (not a lot of stop and go, medium anount of freeway) is mid to upper 20s.

 

If fuel economy is your main concern, get the 4 cyl 2WD. Or get the V6 2WD and put the money you saved over the hyrid into a special back account for gas and see how many fill ups it takes before it is all gone !

[FordPaul]

We are on our 2nd Escape, first being an 02 and we went to the 05 because I liked the interior upgrade and newer floor shift. Am now considering a Mariner. Both Escapes have run great and no problems whatsoever. Fuel mileage is good, I dont run the MPG, I just put gas in it and go. Insurance is reasonable also.

[smok]

None of those get fuel economy close to the hybrid Escape.

 

Not true. I had an escape hybryd for a 500 mile trip. Going 75mph highway, I got 26 mpg. In the city, it was getting 31mpg.

 

The 2wd crv is close to that, and I am sure it beats the 26mpg. Overall you might gain 2 mpg with the hybryd.

 

I thought about this hybryd, but it's not worth it yet, given the unknown reliability and small increase in mpg.

 

One thing I found really good with the escape was how quiet it was, and good it looked

[focalxplosion]

Not true. I had an escape hybryd for a 500 mile trip. Going 75mph highway, I got 26 mpg. In the city, it was getting 31mpg.

 

The 2wd crv is close to that, and I am sure it beats the 26mpg. Overall you might gain 2 mpg with the hybryd.

Yes, it is true that no one is close in this segment. While you may not have achieved the best fuel economy in the Escape, I would rather trust the government ratings than an unscientific opinion. The EPA gives the following ratings (city/highway):

 

Ford Escape Hybrid - 41/32 (under 2007 test procedure) 34/30 (under 2008 test)

Honda CRV - 23/30

Toyota Rav4 - 24/30

Hyundai Tucson - 22-27

 

All of those are FWD, 4cylinders, and automatic. As I said, no one is even close in this segment. In mixed driving cycles you will see about a 25% increase in fuel economy. Now the next time we fill up side by side and I put $30 in the tank and you put $40, you explain why it's not that much.

 

I thought about this hybryd, but it's not worth it yet, given the unknown reliability and small increase in mpg.

 

What unknown reliability? '08 is a refresh and the Escape hybrid has been on the road for four years now. I have not heard of any premature battery failure. Toyota recently announced they replaced a Prius battery pack for the first time on a 7 year old car with 180k miles. Otherwise, these cars are making it their entire lifecycle without a battery replacement.

[johnnymack]

Thanks for the thoughts. I am the type that over analyzes these types of decisions! Haha. It makes me feel good about having all the information but it also means I'm never 100% happy.

 

I like the power of the Highlander, but the price and fuel economy of the Escape.

 

I'd like a NAV system I can hack and play video on, and I can only find info to do that on Toyotas.

 

The AWD on the Ford/Mariner is better than the Toyota, but the Toyota has a better interior.

 

I just can't figure out what's most important! Isn't that always the case??

 

The step down from the Expedition is big, for sure. My gf has an '04 CR-V though so I have ridden/driven that a lot. I think that's a pretty comparable size to these cars and I don't mind the size.

 

Speaking of, I might go drive one of those as well. I don't really like the new style all that much, it looks pretty girly, but the price savings would all but eliminate the gas savings of a hybrid over the first few years.

 

It's a great day to go out and test drive an Escape since I've never been in one...but I just HATE going to the dealership. Oh well I guess I'm gonna have to get over that someday!

[smok]

Yes, it is true that no one is close in this segment. While you may not have achieved the best fuel economy in the Escape, I would rather trust the government ratings than an unscientific opinion. The EPA gives the following ratings (city/highway):

 

Ford Escape Hybrid - 41/32 (under 2007 test procedure) 34/30 (under 2008 test)

Honda CRV - 23/30

Toyota Rav4 - 24/30

Hyundai Tucson - 22-27

 

All of those are FWD, 4cylinders, and automatic. As I said, no one is even close in this segment. In mixed driving cycles you will see about a 25% increase in fuel economy. Now the next time we fill up side by side and I put $30 in the tank and you put $40, you explain why it's not that much.

What unknown reliability? '08 is a refresh and the Escape hybrid has been on the road for four years now. I have not heard of any premature battery failure. Toyota recently announced they replaced a Prius battery pack for the first time on a 7 year old car with 180k miles. Otherwise, these cars are making it their entire lifecycle without a battery replacement.

 

I wouldn't call my mpg rating unscientific, since EPA ratings are not quite what you call REALISTIC!

 

I hope you are right about the relaibility.

 

BTW, the CVT was great! The car was really quiet. It looks great, and drives awesome.

[focalxplosion]

I wouldn't call my mpg rating unscientific, since EPA ratings are not quite what you call REALISTIC!

 

I hope you are right about the relaibility.

 

BTW, the CVT was great! The car was really quiet. It looks great, and drives awesome.

 

Sorry, I wasn't questioning your results, just the method. Scientific method only means the results are repeatable, it says nothing about how realistic they will be. So for instance, when all four of those vehicles I mentioned are tested they will consistently yield similar results. That means that the Escape hybrid gets consistently better fuel economy than its non-hybrid competition. If you were to drive the CRV the same way as you drove the Escape, you would likely see similarly lower results than the EPA. What I mean is that it would be misleading to compare EPA numbers from one vehicle to economy in a different car which you drove.

[Donaldo]

FWIW, the Escape hybrid has a 'normal' A/C mode that does allow the electric motor to drive...only the 'max A/C' or 'defrost' settings kill electric-only operation. For me the 'normal A/C' mode has been plenty cool up to mid-80's temps.

Many pre-'08 hybrid drivers have bought trucks without the NAV system or ditched the factory NAV system and installed an aftermarket one which have all the fun features you're looking for. With the money you save, it might be worth looking into.

If your area has any '07s left, you might like their steep discounts.

[Donaldo]

Since were on the subject of climate control, I have a question regarding hybrids. In the winter, does the engine have to run and warm up for heat, or is that all electric as well?

The gas engine always runs at startup. It will run longer at cold temps than warmer temps. If you live in a cold area and take short trips, you may experience electric-only operation only in summertime.