National Healthcare.

[Imawhosure]

Again----------------->Besides the military, name one thing the government does efficiently?

 

And you want to turn over how much more money and responsibility to them???? Why would anyone want to do that?

 

Our healthcare system needs revamping certainly, but why to so many of you and your thinking, SOLUTION MEANS GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER?????? I just don't understand it.

 

Since history teaches all things, remember------------>The most powerful empire or country before the United States prior to modern times, was the ROMAN EMPIRE. They too began turning over everything needed to survive to their government so as the populace could not worry about anything, and sit around drinking, doing art work for the betterment of society, etc.

 

WHAT HAPPENED TO THEIR EMPIRE?

 

The human condition is not about not having to succeed. How do we know this? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Paris Hilton, Brittney Spears, Rockers, Lindsey Lohan, Charlie Sheen,Ozzie Ousbourne, and the list goes on forever.

 

And the poor people who collect for doing nothing? Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll, where is the largest crime rates in any city? The people who either have to do NOTHING cause they are loaded, or those who refuse to do nothing cause we give them everything, are the biggest group of nincompoops this country has ever seen.

 

And this is where MANY OF YOU people are driving us to. National healthcare, take care of everyone so they don't have to do anything, its not their faults, take care of illegal immigrants on our nickel, be politically correct, etc.

 

Are you really that silly? The country where the best opportunity in the world resides, decides to no longer need opportunity because life is to hard on Americans to grasp the opportunity.

 

The problem is not healthcare perse, but rather the attitude that we Americans have come to believe that we want government to do everything, and are willing to pay for it, as long as the rich do it. (screw them right, they have to much money anyway)

 

If you get your way, I certainly hope that after our government screws everything up and tax rates get to 80% or so, and each of you screwballs wins the lottery..............and ends up with next to nothing cause YOUR FEARLESS LEADERS take it from ya for the good of the worthless, lol.

 

It will serve ya right!!!!! With all the opportunity WE have, I will be damned if you guys still just want to insure that if you fail, someone with a nickel will take care of ya.

 

That my fellow Ford people is socialism, bordering on communism, and aren't you exstatic that you are alive today......in this era........and will be part of the generation who whined, or did not care enough to resist, and make the most powerful country this planet has ever known, turn into another Rome.

[unionj]

Imawhosure, maybe the people you are asking agree with this statement and it's source.

 

 

"We just can't trust the American people to make those types of choices....

Government has to make those choices for people"

(From the book "I've Always Been A Yankee Fan" by Thomas D. Kuiper, p. 20 -

Hillary to Rep. Dennis Hastert in 1993 discussing her expensive, disastrous

taxpayer-funded health care plan)

Edited July 15, 2007 by unionj

[Imawhosure]

Union,

 

 

It is just so frustrating to me personally, that people perceive the solution for everything to be government takeovers.

 

We will be in deep doo as we see that if we are dumb enough to do it, when enough people get elected like Hillary, or maybe SAVETHEPLANET will run and shohorn his way in, we as a country are done.

 

The more power we allow the government to have, the more they can abuse it. Case in point--------->As the government has continued its expansion, things have become more polar, the people argue, etc.

 

Why?

 

Because we are all arguing about what to do WITH OTHER PEOPLES MONEY that some want to confiscate from them on the premise that they know what to do with it.

 

Therefore, while we can choose who we want to invest our money.......or if we want anyone to invest it for our future, we can't choose if our government takes our money for things that are not even in our constitution. That is what PLANET and friends are all about. Getting every program they can into government circles, then piecemealing the money to where they want for their agenda, and expanding what they see as what is best for you, regardless if you do not agree.

 

And we the people are going to go for this?

 

I certainly hope not!!!!

[fmccap]

That my fellow Ford people is socialism, bordering on communism, and aren't you exstatic that you are alive today......in this era........and will be part of the generation who whined, or did not care enough to resist, and make the most powerful country this planet has ever known, turn into another Rome.

You'll probably say this is wrong but, was it like the government pretty much controlled everything? Seeing how things are going these days, the Government is trying to get there hands into everything.

Isn’t it the second step to Communism listed by Marx in the Communist Manifesto? Marx thought that the only step to Communism more important than the income tax was government control of "all property in land." Sure enough, we now can see why he thought the income tax was so crucial to Communism.

Edited July 15, 2007 by fmccap

[Savetheplanet]

Again----------------->Besides the military, name one thing the government does efficiently?

You call spending 12 billion a month in Iraq efficient? The only thing that I can think of that the military has done efficently is kill civillians (google Christmas Hanoi bombings, or Dresden bombings)

I still wonder why you guys whine over a law that has not even been passed yet (national healthcare) yet never mention the 30+ billion a year that is given to farm corparations every year.

Could it be that you guys are partisian republicans who knee jerk a republican platform out of your mouth on any issue that comes up?

[sept68]

You call spending 12 billion a month in Iraq efficient? The only thing that I can think of that the military has done efficently is kill civillians (google Christmas Hanoi bombings, or Dresden bombings)

I still wonder why you guys whine over a law that has not even been passed yet (national healthcare) yet never mention the 30+ billion a year that is given to farm corparations every year.

Could it be that you guys are partisian republicans who knee jerk a republican platform out of your mouth on any issue that comes up?

 

How was Dresden efficient? 2000 bombers? Hiroshima was efficient.

 

Now you want to cut farm subsidies? Maybe we should all start living in communes.

Edited July 16, 2007 by Blowfish

[Furious1Auto]

Imawhosure I respect you but, something has to be in short order to control health care cost inflation. The succeeding is a copy of my ealier post on this thread. It's a tentative plan that I call "Merit Health Care" I personally think that the working man should not have to carry the lazy!

I read your post earlier in the day and toiled over what answer I would give worried that I would come off communist , or socialist. The problem is that right now individuals and business owners that pay for medical care coverage for services and pharmaceuticals are being extorted! This is it in a nut shell, insurers are in business to make profit and control a field that is absolutely necessary. If the government had control of health care they could do it without turning profit all surpluses could be given back to those entitled to coverage to reduce premiums for coverage. To cover everyone would limit the effectiveness of health care coverage dollars. That's why it must be limited to those who contribute to the economy (workers) limiting draws to people who are disabled citizens (not illegals or unmotivated). If the government where working directly with hospitals, and Pharmaceuticals companies (just as the government dictated to companies through affirmative action that any company wanting government dollars must hire a equal % of minorities.) They could nearly dictate what rates they are whiling to pay to these entities. It happens through all government services to include PRS vouchers (money that the government pays to fix cars for eligible low income people). They tell the service garages What they will pay for what repairs. Garages don't like working at a suppressed rate but the government provides their shops much volume and steady income. So, we would eliminate the leach insurers in medical underwriting and reduce the rate that medical facilities can charge. This can only work if their are caps on malpractice suits or liability waivers signed before a procedure is preformed, Maybe the waiver only limits liability in regard to monetary reward! Now that I think of it, If I where a surgical facility I would not perform any procedure without first having a monetary liability waiver signed, limiting cash settlements for malpractice. Yes, people will go elsewhere but where, once all practitioners require such waiver to be signed before surgery? I'm not saying that this is the best solution or that it doesn't need revising. I also would prefer not to have government intervention but, to this point Practitioners have not shown humanity in their billing demands because it's out of their control!

Edited July 16, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Savetheplanet]

How was Dresden efficient? 2000 bombers? Hiroshima was efficient.

 

Now you want to cut farm subsidies? Maybe we should all start living in communes.

Yeah I do want to cut out most farm subsidies, only a Communist would support subsidies.

http://www.card.iastate.edu/iowa_ag_review/spring_06/IAR.pdf

Edited July 16, 2007 by Savetheplanet

[fmccap]

Yeah I do want to cut out most farm subsidies, only a Communist would support subsidies.

http://www.card.iastate.edu/iowa_ag_review/spring_06/IAR.pdf

Does this mean your changing your ways??

[Savetheplanet]

Does this mean your changing your ways??

Read the link, I bet Ron Paul is for cutting farm subsidies.

[wescoent]

My thoughts are, that health insurers should take a page from their life insurance cousins. Health insurers should all be MUTUAL companies. Every person who buys a policy is buying a piece of the company. Individuals and companies pay a premium to the company, and the company gives them coverage. At the end of the year, all surpluses/profits are given back to the policyholders in the form of a refund check that can be credited towards their upcoming premiums.

 

Therefore, we preserve the competition that makes the companies lean and efficient, while at the same time making sure its the policyholders that benefit. It's not going to solve the problem, but it will go a LONG way in reducing costs for everyday people.

[Furious1Auto]

My thoughts are, that health insurers should take a page from their life insurance cousins. Health insurers should all be MUTUAL companies. Every person who buys a policy is buying a piece of the company. Individuals and companies pay a premium to the company, and the company gives them coverage. At the end of the year, all surpluses/profits are given back to the policyholders in the form of a refund check that can be credited towards their upcoming premiums.

 

Therefore, we preserve the competition that makes the companies lean and efficient, while at the same time making sure its the policyholders that benefit. It's not going to solve the problem, but it will go a LONG way in reducing costs for everyday people.

Excellent idea!

[fmccap]

Read the link, I bet Ron Paul is for cutting farm subsidies.

I'm not against it. Look back to when they started, I don't know to much about it but I do believe that it was supposed to be temporary. Like everything they do it never goes away, they just take more money for it and make it bigger claiming they are reforming it to make it better. It seems like an endless cycle.

[Imawhosure]

Furious,

 

I also respect your opinion highly. But to my way of thinking, we are still going down a dark road. To even suggest the government control this is crazy. If Trimdingman is correct, his tax rate is hovering at 50% in Canada, and that is BEFORE you throw in our state taxes.........along with all the rest of the taxes they hit you with.

 

We are seriously talking about a 65% tax rate when it is said and done if your family is making around 70 to 80 grand a year. To me, that is ridiculous.

 

It also seems highly suspect to me, that we are led down the prim rose path consistently to a government takeover of most of our healthcare benefits, when the government .......if it can legislate that........can legislate all kinds of fixes short of taking it over. Why would they want to take it over instead of fix it in the private sector? MONEY, THAT'S WHY!!!!! Look at their creative budgeting now, where money moves from one program to another, then they come back to you insisting that the the program they took the money from originally is underfunded, you aren't paying your fairshare, and aren't you ashamed of yourself for being so greedy and keeping to much!

 

At least once a year I ask the people of Blue Oval, how much of an overall tax rate is to much. For all intensive purposes, most of us have long passed my threshold of 35% long ago after you include all of your state, local, property, luxury, gasoline, etc, etc taxes.(didn't think you were paying that did ya, lol, and you think I am exaggerating. NOT!!!!!!)

 

So what is yours? Remember, we are around 42 to 45% already. Are any of you besides PLANET willing to push it over 50%, just cause you think you are getting something for nothing? Trust me when I tell you, YOU will not be one of the people who will get something for nothing; in fact, you will be many of the people who will PAY so some can get it for nothing though, lol.

 

National Healthcare administrated by our government= A big problem to you, caused by another problem that had little to do with needing the government to take it over, but rather legislate like we elect them to do!

[sept68]

My thoughts are, that health insurers should take a page from their life insurance cousins. Health insurers should all be MUTUAL companies. Every person who buys a policy is buying a piece of the company. Individuals and companies pay a premium to the company, and the company gives them coverage. At the end of the year, all surpluses/profits are given back to the policyholders in the form of a refund check that can be credited towards their upcoming premiums.

 

Therefore, we preserve the competition that makes the companies lean and efficient, while at the same time making sure its the policyholders that benefit. It's not going to solve the problem, but it will go a LONG way in reducing costs for everyday people.

 

 

Will never work. Life insurance only pays out when you die. Thats why they can pay out dividend checks. Just another way to keep you investing in them. Medical insurance pays out way more relative to whats taken in. They are always in demand therefore do not need a scam to keep you as a customer.

[wescoent]

Will never work. Life insurance only pays out when you die. Thats why they can pay out dividend checks. Just another way to keep you investing in them. Medical insurance pays out way more relative to whats taken in. They are always in demand therefore do not need a scam to keep you as a customer.

 

Yeah, it's not exactly the same, but health insurers do turn a profit, hence, why many are publicly traded companies. Therefore, wouldn't we want the company's ONLY concern, especially in this case, to be the benefit of the policyholder, and to bring down costs for THEIR benefit? The alternative, in my eyes, is a government-run system, and I'd MUCH prefer to try this first.

[Furious1Auto]

Furious,

 

I also respect your opinion highly. But to my way of thinking, we are still going down a dark road. To even suggest the government control this is crazy. If Trimdingman is correct, his tax rate is hovering at 50% in Canada, and that is BEFORE you throw in our state taxes.........along with all the rest of the taxes they hit you with.

 

We are seriously talking about a 65% tax rate when it is said and done if your family is making around 70 to 80 grand a year. To me, that is ridiculous.

 

It also seems highly suspect to me, that we are led down the prim rose path consistently to a government takeover of most of our healthcare benefits, when the government .......if it can legislate that........can legislate all kinds of fixes short of taking it over. Why would they want to take it over instead of fix it in the private sector? MONEY, THAT'S WHY!!!!! Look at their creative budgeting now, where money moves from one program to another, then they come back to you insisting that the the program they took the money from originally is underfunded, you aren't paying your fairshare, and aren't you ashamed of yourself for being so greedy and keeping to much!

 

At least once a year I ask the people of Blue Oval, how much of an overall tax rate is to much. For all intensive purposes, most of us have long passed my threshold of 35% long ago after you include all of your state, local, property, luxury, gasoline, etc, etc taxes.(didn't think you were paying that did ya, lol, and you think I am exaggerating. NOT!!!!!!)

 

So what is yours? Remember, we are around 42 to 45% already. Are any of you besides PLANET willing to push it over 50%, just cause you think you are getting something for nothing? Trust me when I tell you, YOU will not be one of the people who will get something for nothing; in fact, you will be many of the people who will PAY so some can get it for nothing though, lol.

 

National Healthcare administrated by our government= A big problem to you, caused by another problem that had little to do with needing the government to take it over, but rather legislate like we elect them to do!

That,s exactly why I despise interest. Your taxed on income then pay sales tax, and if you have to pay interest then what is the actual buying power of your hard earned dollar. I can't beleave that our representatives are now allowing lenders to charge more than 25% interest! I have a good enough credit rating that I will not have to pay that but their extorting the poor!

[fmccap]

That,s exactly why I despise interest. Your taxed on income then pay sales tax, and if you have to pay interest then what is the actual buying power of your hard earned dollar. I can't beleave that our representatives are now allowing lenders to charge more than 25% interest! I have a good enough credit rating that I will not have to pay that but their extorting the poor!

Looking at many things I found this. One thing I wonder is people(you and others) see a problem and want a solution, mostly from the Government(you and others,including me were brought up like this). Go and take a look at where alot of the problems started(government). Most people just see the problems(don't look into it), rather than finding out the root cause of the problems.

 

If you do happen to look more into things and find the first three parts to this could you give them to me?

Take government out of health care

In fact, health insurance markets (as we know them) are government's coercive response to the price increases affected by government intervention in the first place.

 

With government legislation in multiple states at once hampering competitors and aiding the "insurance" promulgated by these doctors and hospitals, Blue Shield was born in 1939.

 

Steinreich mentioned four ways government intervention in health insurance markets corrupted the system, even unto today.

 

First, hospital payments were made on a cost-plus basis rather than based on prices for services rendered.

 

Second, the nature of insurance as risk abatement died as even routine procedures were covered. A corollary problem here is the moral hazard, or over-consumption, induced by artificially low prices.

 

Third, unfair "community rating" premiums replaced premiums based on individuals' own risk factors, compelling healthy 25-year-olds to pay for elderly individuals consuming up to four times as much health care. The long-run social and cultural effects of this Welfare State mentality are now obvious in the breakdown of community action and community living.

 

Fourth, the fiscally irresponsible "pay-as-you-go" system replaced balanced budgets.

 

Government intervention, however, and its economic consequences did not stop there, and the solution is in fact much murkier because the creators of Medicare and Medicaid blindly followed these economically ignorant doctors down the garden path. The result is our current, bloated health un-insurance program that automatically sucks a whopping two-thirds of America's budget every year.

 

The budget, by the way, is now nearly $3 trillion.

 

The only way to fix the perversions wrought by government is to remove government from the situation and allow health care providers and consumers to freely exchange their services and goods in an unhampered market. Then, and only then, can doctors and hospitals begin to compete for consumer market share through lower prices and higher quality services.

Edited July 17, 2007 by fmccap

[Furious1Auto]

So what specific policy changes would you make, in your own words and without generic or vague descriptions. Apparently with as persistent as you are being you must have a plan, spit it out!

[fmccap]

That's not the issue at hand, nor is who owns the fed. My statement was that the fed is controlled by the government, and it is!

If you want answer this in the other thread.

 

Let me ask you this issue at hand. Are you saying the Federal Reserve is part os our U.S. Government???

 

If so then since the Congress has the power to coin money, why do we pay interest to ourselves??????????????????????????????????

[fmccap]

So what specific policy changes would you make, in your own words and without generic or vague descriptions. Apparently with as persistent as you are being you must have a plan, spit it out!

Did you read any of that and look it up to find out if it's true?????

 

You will see that things started going wrong when the government got involved, then there solution was to get more involved to solve the problem they started till you get to where we are today, right? What do they want to do now? Get more involved? After seeing what they do, I would like to take my chances on my own and get them out of anything to do with it.

Edited July 17, 2007 by fmccap

[Furious1Auto]

If you want answer this in the other thread.

 

Let me ask you this issue at hand. Are you saying the Federal Reserve is part os our U.S. Government???

 

If so then since the Congress has the power to coin money, why do we pay interest to ourselves??????????????????????????????????

I don't have any open government loans, All of the interest I pay is a fee charged by privte lenders for borrowing money. If they have borrowed it from the fed to loan to me then I guess by proxy I would be paying it to myself by proxy. I'm sure the fed is looking for a return for their investors the same as my lenders! I'm not quit sure what your getting at!

Edited July 17, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[fmccap]

I don't have any open government loans, All of the interest I pay is a fee charged by privet lenders for borrowing money. If they have borrowed it from the fed to loan to me then I guess by proxy I would be paying it to myself by proxy. I'm sure the fed is looking for a return for their investors the same as my lenders! I'm not quit sure what your getting at!

When the U.S. Government needs money they goto the Federal Reserve not Congress. We pay interest on that money. Now if they are part of us, why do we pay interest?

Here is a start from Regan who put this together.

President's Private Sector Survey

The first 2/3 of the income tax is either wasted or lost. Of the remaining 1/3, every dime of IRS income tax goes to private lenders for interest only on the exponentially escalating national debt. This fact was revealed by the Grace Commission (PPSS) in the Reagan Administration. Not one dime goes to reduce the national debt or run our government. Therefore, Congress must borrow more to pay for its ways to help the people by helping them out of their money. Congress does this by borrowing from the unconstitutional Fed, raising taxes to pay the debt to the owners of the Fed, and raiding the Social Security Fund, which is now missing $4 trillion. Clinton stole $10 billion from the Social Security Fund to bomb Kosovo. That could have given the retired people a nice raise. Those people did not pay into Social Security all their lives to enable Clinton to bomb Kosovo, or to raise the national debt by letting Congress cook the books.

Edited July 17, 2007 by fmccap

[fmccap]

When does the President get audited?

 

EDIT: And he reports to the House every couple of months, and either raises or lowers the banks interest rate.

I guess when he fills the positions that are supposed to be a watchdog.

US intelligence watchdog silent for over five years under Bush/Cheney

The President's Intelligence Oversight Board -- the principal civilian watchdog of the intelligence community -- is obligated under a 26-year-old executive order to tell the attorney general and the president about any intelligence activities it believes "may be unlawful." The board was vacant for the first two years of the Bush administration.

 

Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) added: "It is deeply disturbing that this administration seems to spend so much of its energy and resources trying to find ways to ignore any check and balance on its authority and avoid accountability to Congress and the American public."

[Furious1Auto]

I guess when he fills the positions that are supposed to be a watchdog.

US intelligence watchdog silent for over five years under Bush/Cheney

In each of your posts your trying to gain credibility by posting links which host's may or may not have a bias. Also you like to answer questions with questions. Please in your own words and not in the form of a question. Tell us your plan. I can also pick and criticize but, if I can't offer a tentative viable solution what good is my opinion?