National Healthcare.

[unionj]

This might add some light on what to get used to if you think it's better.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_...icle1890473.ece

[unionj]

:rip: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_...icle1945915.ece

[sandusky plastics]

I don't understand why people would be against national health care.....everything is ALWAYS better when the government gets involved.

[CSMJ]

Compared to our insurance of course you don't want national healthcare.

But put yourself in the avg. man's shoes and you would shut your mouth real soon.

If you were working for 30K with no insurance and 4 kids you would be begging for insurance, your kids get sick and you cannot afford a $3, 800 CAT SCAN or a $7K a day hospital stay.

Ya keep talking SHIT all of you against this and when you get laidoff or injured and can't keep a job say you don't want natl healthcare then.

Why do you think for the past 20 years the union has pushed for natl healthcare??? Because they knew then that without it sooner or later it (the healthcare tab) was gonna destroy the big 3.

[swenson88]

Face it guys, we're going to have to have national healthcare at some point. Every year more and more companies eliminate healthcare benefits for new workers, and many are slashing the benefits of their current workers as well. My father has worked at his company for 35 years and he was told last week that he will now have to pay 100% of his healthcare premiums from now on. Up until then the company only asked him to pay 20%, they paid the remaining 80%. For him and my mother that now works out to over $1400 a month, money they most definitely do not have. It's only a matter of time before EVERY company eliminates healthcare benefits, then what do you think you'll do? Sure, it's easy to be against national healthcare when your company hasn't cut yours yet, but just wait. The tune changes very quickly.

[ellu369]

Face it guys, we're going to have to have national healthcare at some point. Every year more and more companies eliminate healthcare benefits for new workers, and many are slashing the benefits of their current workers as well. My father has worked at his company for 35 years and he was told last week that he will now have to pay 100% of his healthcare premiums from now on. Up until then the company only asked him to pay 20%, they paid the remaining 80%. For him and my mother that now works out to over $1400 a month, money they most definitely do not have. It's only a matter of time before EVERY company eliminates healthcare benefits, then what do you think you'll do? Sure, it's easy to be against national healthcare when your company hasn't cut yours yet, but just wait. The tune changes very quickly.

 

 

Very well put. Thanks for adding a little real world experience to the debate.

[Furious1Auto]

Very well put. Thanks for adding a little real world experience to the debate.

Every year that passes the deeper these insurance companies will get into our pockets!

[sandusky plastics]

Compared to our insurance of course you don't want national healthcare.

But put yourself in the avg. man's shoes and you would shut your mouth real soon.

If you were working for 30K with no insurance and 4 kids you would be begging for insurance, your kids get sick and you cannot afford a $3, 800 CAT SCAN or a $7K a day hospital stay.

Ya keep talking SHIT all of you against this and when you get laidoff or injured and can't keep a job say you don't want natl healthcare then.

Why do you think for the past 20 years the union has pushed for natl healthcare??? Because they knew then that without it sooner or later it (the healthcare tab) was gonna destroy the big 3.

That's just one step closer to socialism. You can have that if you want but I'd much rather make my own choices in life. As far as I'm concerned, the government meddles too much in people lives as it is.

[unionj]

Real world experience.

In my early adulthood I had two kids with no insurance, I financed both of them!

I had the same medical from my prior employer with a better tier for prescriptions so do not for one minute think FOMOCO is the only company with good benefits. The best thing you can all do instead of believing the grass is greener on the other side is to do some research and ask those who live with Nationalized healthcare. Trust me the first time you have to wait a few monthes for treatment because they are backed up with people who just got of the boat your attitude will change.

It makes sense that you would agree with the Union on this as they support and endorse candidates who also feel you are too stupid to run your own life.

 

 

"We just can't trust the American people to make those types of choices....

Government has to make those choices for people"

(From the book "I've Always Been A Yankee Fan" by Thomas D. Kuiper, p. 20 -

Hillary to Rep. Dennis Hastert in 1993 discussing her expensive, disastrous

taxpayer-funded health care plan)

[Trimdingman]

Compared to our insurance of course you don't want national healthcare.

But put yourself in the avg. man's shoes and you would shut your mouth real soon.

If you were working for 30K with no insurance and 4 kids you would be begging for insurance, your kids get sick and you cannot afford a $3, 800 CAT SCAN or a $7K a day hospital stay.

Ya keep talking SHIT all of you against this and when you get laidoff or injured and can't keep a job say you don't want natl healthcare then.

Why do you think for the past 20 years the union has pushed for natl healthcare??? Because they knew then that without it sooner or later it (the healthcare tab) was gonna destroy the big 3.

 

Why does health care cost so much? That is what should be looked into. Lower the qualification requirements for practitioners, and get rid of the regulations, and you wouldn't even need to have insurance, let alone national healthcare. In Canada, immigrant doctors with the skills cannot practice. The clique has it all sewn up. It is not about quality health care. It is about money, our money. We have no choice than to pay these leeches. They have a monopoly. There is no way that it should cost thousands of dollars for a few minutes of surgery. Without the surgery, you die; so, since you are not allowed to go elsewhere, you are extorted to the hilt. Open up medicine to the free market and let anyone practice. Prices would drop in a hurry.

[chassisgrunt]

As a proud American, one of the things that upsets me greatly is just how many of us are so willing to rely on the government for everything. Yes, i will agree that our health care system is not pefect and changes need to be made. more government involvement is not the answer though. the idea of having a third party pay for our health care is ridiculous to begin with, we can't fix it by passing the buck to a fourth party. the solution is to get the overall costs of health care down, so that it can be more affordable for all of us. at that point, we would have to actually exercise some personal responsibility (i know thats a scary thought for some of you) and do for ourselves.

[davdog]

As a proud American, one of the things that upsets me greatly is just how many of us are so willing to rely on the government for everything. Yes, i will agree that our health care system is not pefect and changes need to be made. more government involvement is not the answer though. the idea of having a third party pay for our health care is ridiculous to begin with, we can't fix it by passing the buck to a fourth party. the solution is to get the overall costs of health care down, so that it can be more affordable for all of us. at that point, we would have to actually exercise some personal responsibility (i know thats a scary thought for some of you) and do for ourselves.

 

You want to keep the cost of healthcare down? Get rid of health insurance completely!! If people had to pay for it they wouldn't head to the hospital every time they had a sniffle or a stiff back.

[unionj]

How about the cost of people like John Edwards? He has cost us more in healthcare costs than any doctor has.

[chassisgrunt]

You want to keep the cost of healthcare down? Get rid of health insurance completely!! If people had to pay for it they wouldn't head to the hospital every time they had a sniffle or a stiff back.

 

that is correct. but the problem is not with people going to the doctor when it is unnecessary, its with people not being good consumers because they are not paying for it. we go to the doctor, without even knowing how much the doctor charges for office visits. we get tests done that are most likely unnecessary, because we are not paying for it. if true capatilistic principles were in place in our health care industry, we would have better health care...and at a better price.

[Furious1Auto]

Why does health care cost so much? That is what should be looked into. Lower the qualification requirements for practitioners, and get rid of the regulations, and you wouldn't even need to have insurance, let alone national healthcare. In Canada, immigrant doctors with the skills cannot practice. The clique has it all sewn up. It is not about quality health care. It is about money, our money. We have no choice than to pay these leeches. They have a monopoly. There is no way that it should cost thousands of dollars for a few minutes of surgery. Without the surgery, you die; so, since you are not allowed to go elsewhere, you are extorted to the hilt. Open up medicine to the free market and let anyone practice. Prices would drop in a hurry.

davdog and chassisgrunt are correct! I do not want to deregulate medicine practice though, I want my doctor to be qualified! That's not what is driving up the cost of health care anyway, it's the insurance companies artificially inflating their premiums to generate profit! Ask your doctor, Doctors are required by law to carry Medical malpractice insurance to practice medicine! So the insurance companies have them over a barrel. So the doctors have to charge enough to cover not only their time and materials but, also their insurance. Now when you or your employer buy medical insurance you get raped, They give you every incentive they can not to have to file a claim on your over priced policy. They even try to dictate to doctors what procedures are medically necessary or not by refusing to pay if they determine there not! We need an insurance co-op for all business owners to start with the auto makers and be open to every business owners. Fuck insurance companies!

[CSMJ]

How about the cost of people like John Edwards? He has cost us more in healthcare costs than any doctor has.

STOP quoting the 700 CLUB and the so called "christian right". If your child was born and became disabled for LIFE because the doctor messed up tell me you wouldn't not want that doctor's job, tell me you would not sue to pay for your kids disability caused by the doctor and his staff. Your a minded num robot who believes everything the 700 club says, there's a reason John Edwards is considered the best if not one of the top 5 lawyers in the USA because he wins!!!!!!!!! He won all his cases with a JURY TRIAL. So NO he's not the problem as afr as I see it it is the Christian Right that is the problem for spreading LIES about the candidates they don't like.

[CSMJ]

Why does health care cost so much? That is what should be looked into. Lower the qualification requirements for practitioners, and get rid of the regulations, and you wouldn't even need to have insurance, let alone national healthcare. In Canada, immigrant doctors with the skills cannot practice. The clique has it all sewn up. It is not about quality health care. It is about money, our money. We have no choice than to pay these leeches. They have a monopoly. There is no way that it should cost thousands of dollars for a few minutes of surgery. Without the surgery, you die; so, since you are not allowed to go elsewhere, you are extorted to the hilt. Open up medicine to the free market and let anyone practice. Prices would drop in a hurry.

Take the healthcare off of the stock market and the prices would drop, make it all not for profit and the prices will drop. Remember what Bill Frist did???? He was supposed to be the christian right candidate...

[chassisgrunt]

Take the healthcare off of the stock market and the prices would drop, make it all not for profit and the prices will drop.

 

terrible idea, the reason businesses go into business is to make money. why risk losing money for no profit. thats ridiculous.

[chassisgrunt]

So are doctors driving around in Porsche's, while the average American struggles to pay the bill he sends them.

 

being a doctor is a highly skilled profession. it should be among the highest paid careers. may i ask where you work and what you do?

[Furious1Auto]

being a doctor is a highly skilled profession. it should be among the highest paid careers. may i ask where you work and what you do?

I don't think the doctors wages are so much of an issue. If you should feel contempt for anyone it should be for the the insurers and the ambulance chasers. At least the doctors have a sense of humanity and chose a field to help people! I used to deliver linen to hospitals the only non medical delivery I made for this company was to Progressive auto insurance's multi million dollar complex that housed an extensive gym(rivaling Bally's Total Fitness or Worlds Gym) and an aerobics room. There profits are almost as outrageous as fuel refineries! The funny thing is that in 2004 George Bush was able to pass legislation that would limit liability to malpractice insurers by putting caps on claims filed! Bush sold it saying that it would help reduce policy premiums. health care hasn't gotten cheaper, their just making more profit!!!

Edited June 20, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[unionj]

STOP quoting the 700 CLUB and the so called "christian right". If your child was born and became disabled for LIFE because the doctor messed up tell me you wouldn't not want that doctor's job, tell me you would not sue to pay for your kids disability caused by the doctor and his staff. Your a minded num robot who believes everything the 700 club says, there's a reason John Edwards is considered the best if not one of the top 5 lawyers in the USA because he wins!!!!!!!!! He won all his cases with a JURY TRIAL. So NO he's not the problem as afr as I see it it is the Christian Right that is the problem for spreading LIES about the candidates they don't like.

Hate the 700 club and Pat! But trial lawyers are half the reason the consumers pay so much for any kind of insurance and if you think they do it because they care and are for justice then ask them to do it for 5%.

Edited June 20, 2007 by unionj

[Trimdingman]

Hate the 700 club and Pat! But trial lawyers are half the reason the consumers pay so much for any kind of insurance and if you think they do it because they care and are for justice then ask them to do it for 5%.

 

 

All kinds of health care should be out there. Get rid of regulations. If you do not sign a waiver to sue, you should pay more. If I need my appendix out, something most anyone could do, I would rather pay my butcher a couple of hundred bucks than wait for a surgeon and pay several thousand, unless I was rich. Heath care is bankrupting the country. My wife and myself pay half of our taxes in Canada to health care. That is over $30,000 a year, and I will not see a doctor because medical malpractice is the number one cause of death. I will die when my time comes. I do not want to spend my last few years in hospitals and doctors' waiting rooms. I may as well be dead. I would probably live longer anyway staying away from them.

[swenson88]

Why does health care cost so much? That is what should be looked into. Lower the qualification requirements for practitioners, and get rid of the regulations, and you wouldn't even need to have insurance, let alone national healthcare. In Canada, immigrant doctors with the skills cannot practice. The clique has it all sewn up. It is not about quality health care. It is about money, our money. We have no choice than to pay these leeches. They have a monopoly. There is no way that it should cost thousands of dollars for a few minutes of surgery. Without the surgery, you die; so, since you are not allowed to go elsewhere, you are extorted to the hilt. Open up medicine to the free market and let anyone practice. Prices would drop in a hurry.

 

 

Wow. I don't even know where to start here. You really think doctor's salaries are why healthcare costs so much? Really? Do some research, you'll see that over the past few decades doctor's salaries have barely kept up with inflation, yet healthcare has gone sky high at sometimes triple the national inflation rate. Explain that. Look, the reason healthcare keeps skyrocketing is because we simply have MORE OF IT. Common diseases that no one received much treatment for are now being treated daily with expensive prescriptions and procedures. For one example psoriasis - fairly common, sucks to have it, but now one of the standard treatments is a weekly shot of a very high-tech antibody that costs $1100-$1500 PER WEEK. It used to be that people with psoriasis simply got some topical creams and maybe cheap steroids, costing maybe a couple bucks a week. Now we have a great medication that really does work well and improves a lot of lives, but it costs a ridiculous amount of money. Then there's real simple things like high blood pressure and Type II diabetes - there's barely a middle age American who isn't taking a prescription for both. People used to just get heart attacks and die - now we have expensive fancy diagnostic tests that warn of a heart attack so you get fancy expensive surgery that prevents a heart attack. Feel free to bitch about healthcare costs, guys, but they've gone up as our ability to save lives and improve lives have gone up. Lowering doctor's salaries will be a drop in the bucket. And for god's sake, lowering the standards to get into medical school?!? Jesus, if there's one field that should have the highest standards for it's practitioners it's healthcare. In America qualified foreign doctors can certainly practice, I don't know about Canada, but I can't imagine anyone would really want to lower medical school requirements just to save a buck or two.

[udontkno]

The Art of War: "Death by a 1000 cuts" if we dont get National Health Care! Law Suits was less than 1% of the cost of health care last year. Its the greedy Insurance companies, drug companies that are reaping profits off of the ill. If our govt took over health care we wouldnt be charged the extra expense that is making up their profits. I was sitting next to a guy from Montreal Canada on a flight I took last week and we talked about Health Care. There are 47 million Americans without health care. Thats 1 out of every 6 people. He said he liked his health care and couldnt understand why America was so anti people. Now our govt is selling roads, ports and anything else they can to private companies. There is no way in hell the price will go down, these companies are in business to make a profit. All they can do is pay less in labor cost, theres no way they can get cheaper materials. Materials are what they are and the govt actually has a larger negotiating position than any company. Dont be fooled by the rich Insurance and drug companies, we will die "Death by a 1000 cuts" without national health. After all we are the only one of 7 industrialized countries without it.

[chassisgrunt]

The Art of War: "Death by a 1000 cuts" if we dont get National Health Care! Law Suits was less than 1% of the cost of health care last year. Its the greedy Insurance companies, drug companies that are reaping profits off of the ill. If our govt took over health care we wouldnt be charged the extra expense that is making up their profits. I was sitting next to a guy from Montreal Canada on a flight I took last week and we talked about Health Care. There are 47 million Americans without health care. Thats 1 out of every 6 people. He said he liked his health care and couldnt understand why America was so anti people. Now our govt is selling roads, ports and anything else they can to private companies. There is no way in hell the price will go down, these companies are in business to make a profit. All they can do is pay less in labor cost, theres no way they can get cheaper materials. Materials are what they are and the govt actually has a larger negotiating position than any company. Dont be fooled by the rich Insurance and drug companies, we will die "Death by a 1000 cuts" without national health. After all we are the only one of 7 industrialized countries without it.

 

everything the government runs is screwed up. get true capatilism involved, and the problems are fixed. shifting 3rd party paying from insurance companies to the government would only make things worse. it scares me that so many people want to rely on the gov't to take care of them.