igor Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 No, Ford should offer a C-car that can compete in the C-car segment. If all compacts must be cheap as you stated, then who in the hell is purchasing all those Civics, Corollas, Mazda3 etc. Why must the low cost Focus be a settle for vehicle in America, whereas it is the leader in the international market. The C170 Focus is not weak when it comes to available options , which you wrote "the important thing is to offer OPTIONS for people to build their car UP to their image". So it must be that the image of the American Focus is that it does not compete against its rivals in its segment, and must be sold at a loss. So your point is if the consumer wants a $11k compact, try Focus or Kia, because Ford is quite happy to build and sell a cheap C-segment compact and lose money on it selling at a B-segement price? Now that is (how would you put it) ehm "DUMB" All compacts including Corolla, Civic and Mazfa start with very few options .. definitely without ESP, TC and ABS .. they COST MORE ... but then again - no one will pay for the 08 Focus as much as for a corolla - even if it had better base equipment. The rest is your fabrication - I said nothing to that tune - simply my point was that the cheaper automaker can go with base C-car, the better for them - majority of the cars in this segment sell in the LOWER poertion of their price range. So if Ford can undercut Corolla, there will be quite a ew customers that will pass up Corolla and buy the Focus ... And yes, Ford is right now comparable to Kia, Hyundai and Cherolet in the compact segment - their offering is not class leading like Civic and mazda3, and they do not have an army of blind followers like Toyota - so Ford like the rest of the goup I outlined above, has a deep interest in being cheaper than the Three I mentioned later. Regardless - if offering standard equipment makes the model PRICE ITSELF OUT OF THE GAME - they NO .. Ford should not do it .. and the 08 Focus is not the kind of car Ford should use to challenge people's ideas about Ford .. the Fusion, the Edge, the Taurus are all great cars, that are gradually creeping up the price ladder,and keep piling on standard features ... but they are great cars that can easily stand up to any competition - Focus as much as I like it - is not that good - it is solidly mid pack, and offer some nice options - but overall, it is not even close to the top of the class.. and the pricing and base equipment will reflect that - Ford will entice buyers though VALUE proposition. (and YES I DO WISH Ford offered a better Focus .. but that is not the topic here). Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion0206 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Not to derail the conversation here, but I noticed the Focus will come with a "performance cluster" in the Deluxe Package. What will that consist of, does anybody know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 (and YES I DO WISH Ford offered a better Focus .. but that is not the topic here). Igor Um, where have you been, that is exactly the topic here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Um, where have you been, that is exactly the topic here. well it is not the topic of the discussion between Me and MK II .. the grass is always greener on the other side .. if you only knew what things europeans complain about not getting :D Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 well it is not the topic of the discussion between Me and MK II .. the grass is always greener on the other side .. if you only knew what things europeans complain about not getting :D Igor Well in the case of the C170 Focus, I do not think "the grass is always greener on the other side" applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Well in the case of the C170 Focus, I do not think "the grass is always greener on the other side" applies. In every way, I disagree with the blind assertion that the C1 would be better for our market. It is a good paltform, but it's not that superior. Good tuning could make a C170 based car feel like a C1. The styling of the Euro Focus would also be derided as dull and plain. And it would cost more than the C170 if it were made in Wayne, and I will agree with igor that Ford does have to sell on value right now (damaged brand does that to you). However, the real question for me is why, when Ford puts so much time and money into a vehicle like our Focus (it was not an insignificant update) does it botch the little things? Headrestraints seem minor, but believe me, they aren't, and they will be noticed. The four-speed might not be a deal breaker in 2008, but I bet it will be by 2010. I would bet good money that even Hyundai will have 5 or 6-speed autos on their base cars by then. Will Ford have one for the Focus? How much will Ford be updating this Focus in the next four years before the C2 arrives? The point for me with this Focus is that Ford risks damaging the Focus name. This car will need continuing investment to keep it competitive, or it will be damaged goods in about 18-24 months. It's not that this new model won't be competitive in 2008, but what about when the new Corolla or updated Civic emerge in about 12 months? And what Ford lacks isn't a set of features or proper trim levels (I would argue that a stripper model is a good thing to have), but the touches that make the car complete. And that's troubling. I would like to believe that this is product of a now defunct system of design and engineering at Ford who had their last hurrah with the Fusion, Edge, Taurus, Escape and Focus - all good cars (some very emotional and well designed) but all lacking something. All about 80-90% there. But I haven't been convinced of that yet. This topic should be about why we are getting the Focus we are. It's not bad. It doesn't need the C1 architecture. It's just not all there. And that's still pretty disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 The "the grass is always greener on the other side" applies on the C170, atleast imo. (talking about 08 not the 05 with horrid interior) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 The "the grass is always greener on the other side" applies on the C170, atleast imo. (talking about 08 not the 05 with horrid interior) That's true, except that in this case the Focus is not being compared to just the C170 across the pond but also to American market cars like the civic and Mazda 3 and like that. Personally I don't mind the interior aside from all the gaudy silver. It is however an improvement over the last version interior. But the body design isn't that great to me. I'm sure some will like it. Perhaps if they lowered it about an inch and put some more aggressive tires and wheels on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joihan777 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 And the V-Dub GTI kicks big fucking ass while attracting admiring stares from everyone in sight. Since I am used to driving a Cavalier I don't know how to act being slightly uncomfortable with the attention. It garners the kind of respect a five star general gets... Damn that little car is quick! You literally feel it in your stomach when you floor it. It is absolutely the most fun and best handling car I have ever driven... I feel absolutely spoiled when I drive it... Amen! I was late to work yesterday and ended up flirting with 100mph on the interstate. Only car sweating me was a Z. (Of course I beat it!) Even at 90+ the Rabbit felt absolutely planted! It is a fantastic vehicle. And it has rear seat headrests. I only wish the 2009+ Focus can keep up. There's something to be said about cars designed for the autobahn.... (Pssst.. Ford, design your cars for the autobahn!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 (edited) Amen! I was late to work yesterday and ended up flirting with 100mph on the interstate. Only car sweating me was a Z. (Of course I beat it!) Even at 90+ the Rabbit felt absolutely planted! It is a fantastic vehicle. And it has rear seat headrests. I only wish the 2009+ Focus can keep up. There's something to be said about cars designed for the autobahn.... (Pssst.. Ford, design your cars for the autobahn!) I have not drove the Rabbit as it is an affordable alternative to consider if I cannot swing my own GTI. It's god to know the Rabbit even performs closely to the level of a GTI while Ford is just uncommitted to making a domestic Focus be even his good in basic form and affordable value. Yes the GTI is well planted and rides so well that when you have to be careful to watch the speedometer because 80mph feels like 50 mph. That is not so in my Cavalier of course... Nor the Focus. I will be so happy when I will be able to give up my Cavalier for somehing nicer. The Cavalier is definietly reliable and decent build quality but of course it is not refined. It only purpose for me is to be reliable afforable transportation until I am ready to purchase something nicer that I can fall in love with. Patience is a virtue because whe the time comes I will know, I will be ready for what I want. Which is why I spend a lot of time pondering different vehicles. Most of the ones I am considering now are compact and sporty but I expect excitement and something fon to drive and good on the eyes that doesn't make me feel poor... The 08 Focus doesn't deliver that... Vehicles that have been on my radar lately: Ford Mustang (convertible or coupe) VW GTI/Rabbit 3-door Chevy HHR Panel Van Scion XB Scion TC A Thunderbird in any shape or form new or used that feels right to own. I like the Fiesta ST too at least in concept: Edited August 3, 2007 by Watchdevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I have not drove the Rabbit as it is an affordable alternative to consider if I cannot swing my own GTI. It's god to know the Rabbit even performs closely to the level of a GTI while Ford is just uncommitted to making a domestic Focus be even his good in basic form and affordable value. Yes the GTI is well planted and rides so well that when you have to be careful to watch the speedometer because 80mph feels like 50 mph. That is not so in my Cavalier of course... Nor the Focus. I will be so happy when I will be able to give up my Cavalier for somehing nicer. The Cavalier is definietly reliable and decent build quality but of course it is not refined. It only purpose for me is to be reliable afforable transportation until I am ready to purchase something nicer that I can fall in love with. Patience is a virtue because whe the time comes I will know, I will be ready for what I want. Which is why I spend a lot of time pondering different vehicles. Most of the ones I am considering now are compact and sporty but I expect excitement and something fon to drive and good on the eyes that doesn't make me feel poor... The 08 Focus doesn't deliver that... Vehicles that have been on my radar lately: Ford Mustang (convertible or coupe) VW GTI/Rabbit 3-door Chevy HHR Panel Van Scion XB Scion TC A Thunderbird in any shape or form new or used that feels right to own. I like the Fiesta ST too at least in concept: Of course it can be expected that our newer f150, magnum, and even our intrepid would feel planted. What you wouldn't expect, is the excellent driving ability of our neon...I still think its crap, but it really, for some reason, makes you want to go faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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