What to look for

[Keyser Soze]

Hi all:

 

It looks like my '00 Chrysler may be done for and I've decided to look for a used panther to replace it. I drive between 30 and 35K miles a year, so safety durability and comfort are key concerns. I think the panther has these all well covered.

 

I've seen an '02 CV LX Sport for sale locally by a private owner. It is exactly what I want, right down to the color. It has about 30K miles and seems to be in good shape. I haven't driven it yet since I don't want to jerk the seller around if I find out the Chrysler is not dead.

 

Are there any specific problems to look for?

What would be a real market price for such a car? What would a dealer likely offer on a trade for it?

Can I really expect to get over 20MPG in mixed driving with this car?

Was the valve seal issue fixed by '02?

 

What do you say, Panther Mafia? I appreciate your input.

[Traveler]

Newer models than '02 will have a new frame, rack and pinion steering, revised suspension geometry, engine knock sensors, throttle by wire and a few more popular options liking power adjustable pedals, side air bags, moonroof, etc. I'm not sure was the traction control available in '02??

 

I test drove a '02 LX Sport brand new some years ago. I think the '02 will be a good choice, but IMO the 2003+ models drive a bit better. They have more steering feel and seem to handle a bit better. I think a bit better tuning with the newer ones seem to give a little more throttle response, but I don't think significantly to make difference. What ultimately matters, is if it drives good to you. I'd definitely test drive it before getting to attached to it and then if it feels good, buy it.

[MIAMI-DADE]

Newer models than '02 will have a new frame, rack and pinion steering, revised suspension geometry, engine knock sensors, throttle by wire and a few more popular options liking power adjustable pedals, side air bags, moonroof, etc. I'm not sure was the traction control available in '02??

 

I test drove a '02 LX Sport brand new some years ago. I think the '02 will be a good choice, but IMO the 2003+ models drive a bit better. They have more steering feel and seem to handle a bit better. I think a bit better tuning with the newer ones seem to give a little more throttle response, but I don't think significantly to make difference. What ultimately matters, is if it drives good to you. I'd definitely test drive it before getting to attached to it and then if it feels good, buy it.

 

I thought 03 was the year the knock sensor was put in. Pinging is a issue with the Panthers before the knock sensor. More so here in Miami with jungle humidity where the a/c is always on all year long.

Edited August 13, 2007 by MIAMI-DADE

[theoldwizard]

What would be a real market price for such a car? What would a dealer likely offer on a trade for it?

Check the Kelly Blue Book

Can I really expect to get over 20MPG in mixed driving with this car?

No way !

 

However, you should get 24-26 mpg on long highway trips at a steady 70MPH. I have seen it first hand.

[Keyser Soze]

Thanks for the responses.

 

Check the Kelly Blue Book

 

Already did that, but I have found these types of services to be pretty far off the mark. Case in point. I bought my Chrysler for about $3K less than what KBB said it was worth at the time.

 

I'm really hoping that someone here has some recent buying experience and can tell me where I should be.

[Traveler]

Regarding mileage...

 

I think it depends on the mix of driving, the model year of car and the condition that it's in. I recently did a 150 mile trip in which the car did:

 

- 30 miles on the interstate running approximately 75 mph

-100 miles of highway driving at 60 mph

-20 miles of A LOT of stop and go city and town mix (under 45 mph)

 

On that trip I got 22 miles per gallon, verifiable by noting mileage and gallons burned and that wasn't driving all that conservatively in terms of acceleration. Using the display computer gizmo to the right of the instrument cluster, I usually can usually average about 23-24 mpg on the interstate (70-80 mph), 27-29 mpg on the highway at about 60-65 cruise and about 17 mpg in heavy stop and go exclusively.

 

I always try to maintain tire pressure (35 in rear, 32-33 in front) and keep a watch on the air filter. I have also noticed that operating the auto climate control at about 74 degree instead of running on MAX all the time seems to save some on gas.

Edited August 13, 2007 by Traveler

[taxman100]

I have an 02 LSE, and I average 19 mpg in the winter, and 21 mpg in the summer, in mixed driving. I did run my tires up to 35 psi to add about 1 mpg to what I used to be getting.

 

The pros of the 02 vs. the newer ones is Ford started decontenting the Panther after about half-way through the 2003 model year - cheapened them up in multiple detail features sort of thing. Also, the 02 has the recirculating ball steering, which other than a few inexpensive wear parts, is good for the life of the car. The 03 steering is much firmer, if that is what you prefer. I assume the LX Sport is the same, but my LSE does have the power pedals, traction control, etc. It is true that I think moonroofs and side airbags were not available in 2002.

 

My ideal vehicle would be a Grand Marquis LS Ultimate with the digital gauges and the newer frame, but not the 2003 model year (suspension was too stiff that year) I guess that means 2004 model year for me.

[Keyser Soze]

Thanks for the replys. I'm going to take a look at the car this weekend since the dealer tells me my Concorde MAY have a bent valve. Not worth the repair to me.

 

Is there an easy way to tell if the rear is limited slip? Do they still put the metal tag on the diff cover?

[SysEng]

Is there an easy way to tell if the rear is limited slip? Do they still put the metal tag on the diff cover?

 

No "panther" in this century ( except the Marauder ) had LS. They all had ETC or nothing.

 

ETC=Electronic Traction Control

[Traveler]

No "panther" in this century ( except the Marauder ) had LS. They all had ETC or nothing.

 

ETC=Electronic Traction Control

 

 

The Interceptors do...don't they?? Maybe not. Maybe in inclement winter weather, it could be an issue but I'd think with the traction control, it wouldn't be that a big a deal.

 

BTW...I got a chance to take a short, low speed ride in a 2005 CVPI the other day...and no it wasn't because of bad behavior. Honestly, I couldn't hardly tell any difference (at low speed) in the ride quality of the CVPI and HPP. They felt nearly identical over pavement imperfections.

[matthewq4b]

No "panther" in this century ( except the Marauder ) had LS. They all had ETC or nothing.

 

ETC=Electronic Traction Control

 

 

The PI units sold here are equipped with Trac Lok still, ETC is fine but it sucks ass on glare ice and does not help one bit. Also LS is way more effective in dry deep snow as you want to spin the tires to get things moving . Still to this day I preferre LS to ETC. The Charger has ETC and I disable it a lot in the winter time as it is more of a hinderance than a benifit a lot of the time.

 

Any how the Chargers days are numbered the car is not going to be a long term survivoir so now I,m looking for a replcement. Looks like it is going to be replaced with a new Panther or a used Excursion. If the New Panther does not have Limited Slip it will be added.

 

 

Matthew

[SysEng]

Looks like it is going to be replaced with a new Panther or a used Excursion.

Matthew

 

Now theres narrowing down the market :lol: Wonder how that product mix fits into your intended usage???

 

I am hearing, that you can get off lease '07s for a pretty good deal. Oh, and from the looks of it, up there your only option is a fully loaded GM-LS... not bad...

 

Their using the 4R75 tranny now. That means your options for BOMing things has expanded a bit.

Edited August 20, 2007 by SysEng

[NLPRacing]

The PI units sold here are equipped with Trac Lok still, ETC is fine but it sucks ass on glare ice and does not help one bit. Also LS is way more effective in dry deep snow as you want to spin the tires to get things moving . Still to this day I preferre LS to ETC. The Charger has ETC and I disable it a lot in the winter time as it is more of a hinderance than a benifit a lot of the time.

 

Any how the Chargers days are numbered the car is not going to be a long term survivoir so now I,m looking for a replcement. Looks like it is going to be replaced with a new Panther or a used Excursion. If the New Panther does not have Limited Slip it will be added.

Matthew

 

What's wrong with the Charger.

[matthewq4b]

What's wrong with the Charger.

 

 

Typically a Chrysler that is what. While the car is basically sound it has had more issues in the first year of owner ship than my GM did in the first 5 and it is developing squeaks and rattles. Gotta dump it befor it it gets real bad. The drive line is nice but the rest of the car is not to my liking.

 

It is more of a toy than a purpose built car IMHO.

 

I liked the concept of the car and handling it just needs a little more solidness in the engineering.

 

Right now it is a toss up Between a new Panther or a used Excursion. A V10 excursion. Not a Diesel.

 

Right now Iam leaning towards the Excursion As it looks I am going to be out of town for most of the next year in some remote locations. Plus the Wife wants to get a larger Holiday trailer. And with me being out of town it is going to give me the chance to get in some good fishing Ideal for an Excursion.. My only bitch with the Excursion is the brakes on them are kinda the shits so that is some thing I will have to upgrade if I get one. I do not have to pay for Fuel at all any more so mileage is not a concern no matter what I drive.

 

I will most likely buy a new when they announce the chopping of them. Maybe I can call in couple favours and get near one of the last ones off the line. Just like I did to get one of the First ones off the line.

 

 

 

As for the GM, Well the body is pretty much completely shot. Which sucks to be honest cause I was thinking of restoring it. But the floor pan is badly rotted and the drivers front seat track on one corner has pulled through from the floor (too many hard launches I guess lol). Plus the rockers are completely shot and all the fenders are rotted and more than one or 2 Body mounts have rotted out and off. The frame is still as sound as the day it rolled off the line. To much money to fix . Which is really too bad since it is a very early production unit. 01/91 it was the 67th regular production unit off the line in the new body style for the 92 Model Year.

 

I had the original tranny rebuilt a while back and I put it back in the car this last weekend and I took the old girl out of town with me this past week against the wifes protests boy was she pissed called me and old fool LOL. Busted motor mounts broken springs bad shocks and all. AH hell even now I would jump in it and drive across country, that car has never let me down once. On the way home she drove like champ, No shimmy's wobbles or vibrations at all. I was in group of cars and we were all doing 150 - 155Kph 93-96MPH for most of the trip back to EDM. The old Girl still goes like a bat outta hell and still pull's like a freight train all the way to the to limiter And it rode pertty darn good for a rotted out almost 18 + year old car with over 600,000 K Miles on it with shot shocks.

 

But that will be her last trip of any distance. I will keep her around till I can find a suitable Older Galaxie to transplant the motor and tranny in to. I might use the GM's front suspension on it I know it can be done and the track widths can be made the same Hell I may even just drop a Galaxie body on the GM chassis and add in the 5" of wheel base. I was looking at how it could be done on my 68 Galaxie Rag Top I had until a few years back when a friend of mine offered me a ridiculous amount of money for it. The chassis's basic designs are not too far from each other so I,m sure it could be done with out to much difficulty.

 

I may even adapt the Digital dash to the Galaxies I/P.

 

Regardless even when GM goes to be turned in to I beams or sewer lids Her heart and soul will live in on in some other classic Ford Iron.

 

Either way I had to take the Old girl out for one more run befor permanent retirement.

 

 

Matthew

[bigjon]

the 02 sport would be a perfect vehicle for you. if you travel a lot of highway, you will do very well in the mpg area. the car is VERY comfortable for those long trips too. if you properly maintain your panther, you will easily get 200k miles out of that beast.

 

let us know what you chose.

 

and yes, your sport has an open diff with 3.27 gears.

[MIAMI-DADE]

What's wrong with the Charger.

 

After our Sheriff bought about a dozen Chargers they realized they couldn't fit an average human being in the back seat after the cage was put in.So their sticking to the Vic.

 

Why any department would buy a Charger baffles me.They might be sweet looking and fast to some here but they have poor visibility,no trunk space,little interior space and always had POOR realiability.If you look at the Charger forum you will see they have the same problems as the Interipids even though their not FWD.

 

As of right now their is NO alternative to the Crown Vic.

 

BTW I put on over 200k miles on my 99 Crown Vic and over 200 miles on my 88 Crown Vic and plan on doing that with my 05 Crown Vic.IMHO I don't belive a Dodge can handle that in this jungle heat here in Miami or anywhere for that matter.

Edited September 21, 2007 by MIAMI-DADE

[Traveler]

I've said it before...Dodge should've built a police-specific car from the parts they had and left the Charger as a civilian-only vehicle. It would have been easy. All they would have had to do would be to use the 300 body and the Magnum front end with Dodge Magnum wheels. Then made some sort of reflector strip between the taillights so as to distinguish it from the civil-300s from the rear...plus the reflector strip would have given a bit of extra safety feature there as well. They could have called it the Dodge Enforcer. This would have corrected the problem with the Dodge Chargers rear seat access.

 

I've sampled the Dodge Charger at two auto shows because I really like the car...especially the SRT-8. Only thing is, you have to be careful getting into the backseat because of how the C-post drops down in coupe-like fashion. Last year, I tried to be careful and still struck my head on the C-post. Now, imagine having to wrestle somebody into the backseat. You almost have to enter the backseat of the Dodge Charger like you're getting into a coupe by leaning your head forward and slightly bending your back. You definitely cannot think 'Crown Vic' or 'Grand Marquis' when opening the back door and sitting down!

 

I see the benefit of the Dodge Charger as a special pursuit vehicle not unlike the old Ford Mustangs and Chevy Camaros. In fact, they are perhaps better as they afford the opportunity to haul somebody in using the backseat and rear doors for access rather than having to either sit someone in the front seat with the LEO or wait for a CVPI. However, I think the design has too many compromises to threaten the Vic such as its smaller, more shallow trunk. The vehicle I think threatens the CVPI the most is the Tahoe from what I read, although I'm betting that its more top-heavy than what the Michigan State Police realize and I bet that the gas mileage is probably worse than what they indicate.

Edited September 22, 2007 by Traveler

[jonas1022]

My local city bought a load of Chargers. Now this year they are buying the Magnum to "fix" the rear access issue. Also, the Charger doesn't have enough trunk to carry all of the necessary equipment that the officers want to have on hand when they go into the field. With these two issues alone, I can only assume there are some pissed LEOs on the local force. LOL!

 

The CV is what I would like to own once again, but the wife unit is the driver of the car and she is still in love with her 98 Escort Sport. Great around town, to/from work, and other errands. Just not for me, and surely not something I like doing the annual vacation.

Edited September 22, 2007 by jonas1022

[Traveler]

I suppose wagons are just usually rejected for police usage, but the Magnum only weighs 96 pounds more than a 300/Charger and with the same Hemi engine, the difference would be nominal. Plus, from what I remember, the Magnum's front/rear weight distribution isn't that much different. An added bonus is the Magnum offers more cargo capacity.

 

The only downside to the Magnum is the rear visibility, however that isn't so bad to represent a major compromise. Why there aren't more Magnum police cars on the road is beyond me.

[96towncarcartier]

I think you'll be very happy with that 2002 CV Sport. You'll get many happy years from that car, and many hundreds of thousands a miles!!

 

 

 

2003MY brought the hydroformed frame rails, which improved ride and stiffness of the chassis, as well as more fine-tuning of NVH foaming to reduce noise, vibration and harshness.

 

2003MY also brough rack and pinion steering, to replace the recirculating ball.

 

Also, 2003MY moved rear shocks to a position outboard of the frame rails in the rear, just like they did for the 2004 F150. Improves rear ride and lateral support.